Caron Butler, Among the Most Overrated NBA Players

Clippers TopBuzz Forum/Message Board » Clippers News & General Discussions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Search This Topic:
 
big_giddy
Clipper Starter
 Avatar
Posts: 634

rp.gif
votes: 4
  

Don't be fooled by stats, fan-voted All-Star Game appearances, highlighted plays, and/or media hype. While every combatant in the NBA is a truly great player, too many of them are gauged by these grossly misleading standards.

Here is my latest collection of the NBA's most over-valued no-so super stars:

Dwight Howard heads the list. Yes, Mike D'Antoni's ill-fitting offense is partially to blame for Howard's relative invisibility with the Lakers. But Howard deserves no sympathy points for his post-surgical mediocrity. If he's well enough to play, he's well enough to be subjected to criticism. His number were good in Orlando, only because he was the Magic's featured player (except in endgames where he transformed free-throws into the heaving of bricks). As I've said many times before, his immaturity, limited offense, faulty defensive rotations, and miserable performances at the stripe combine to make Howard a loser.

Chris Kaman has predictable offense, lamentable defense (blocked shots is only a tiny measure of a player's defensive effectiveness), and a great deal less athleticism than his peers. For sure, on rare occasions he'll block a shot and throw an assist pass, but his turnovers usually outnumber the combined per-game total of these positives.

Chris Bosh scores most of his points on uncontested mid-range jumpers resulting from opponents' defenses having to key on LeBron James and Dwyane Wade. His individual defense is below par as is his passwork.

Russell Westbrook is incredibly quick (within a limited space) and fast (from coast-to-coast), but he's not suited to be the point guard on a championship-worthy. That's because he still overhandles, forces too many shots, often ignores Kevin Durant, is an iffy shooter from beyond the arc, and is a turnover machine. It's remarkable how little his point-guard play has improved since he was rookie four-plus years ago. Westbrook (and the Thunder) would be better served if he was repositioned at the two-guard slot.

Roy Hibbert is weak, awkward and, despite being 7-foot-2, is short-armed whenever a game is up for grabs. His appearance in last year's All-Star game is more indicative of the shortage of outstanding centers in the NBA than is it of Hibbert's skills.

Rajon Rondo's ornery, petulant attitude is beginning to have more of a negative effect on the old-and-in-the-way Celtics than his effectiveness on the court.

Kevin Garnett is, and always has been, a choker. Expect him to tally beaucoup points in blow-outs, to be a cheap-shot artist, and for his mouth to be bigger than his game.

Brandon Jennings has an exaggerated opinion of his own value. In truth he shoots too much and too inaccurately, and plays only for steals on the defensive end.

Monta Ellis is another high-volume shooter who can't differentiate between a good shot and a bad one. Also, his assist-to-turnover rate is only marginally acceptable.

Andrea Bargnani Hold on. Does anybody in the league (except for his accountant) still retain a positive view of this guy?

Andrew Bynum will step on the court sooner or later, but chances are he'll still have the same me-first attitude as he had in LA. The only way he'll be happy in Philadelphia is if (win or lose) he becomes the team's go-to scorer and virtually every offensive sequence goes through him.

Caron Butler had lost virtually every trace of his past mobility and become a stand-still shooter. He's the weakest link in LAC's starting lineup.

Carlos Boozer can bully smaller, weaker defenders, but is no longer a threat in the low-post and never did play acceptable defense. He also has a career-long penchant for playing poorly in the money season.

Deron Williams has apparently left his game somewhere in Salt Lake City. Without the support, definition, and protection of Jerry Sloan's highly disciplined system, and with Joe Johnson being Brooklyn's fail-safe scorer in the clutch, D-Will has been shooting too many blanks. Perhaps the next time the Nets visit the Jazz (March 30), Williams can persuade the local police to issue an All-Points-Bulletin to try and find his jump shot.

Charley Rosen

bullterrierclipsfan1349
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4526

mx.gif
votes: 30

idk about butler being a stand still shooter. we have seen him attack the rim with authority at times this season. plus he can still play decent to solid defense. some of these criticisms are spot on, as in jennings, westbrook, bargnani and rondos case (rondo needs to chill out with his attitude) and to a certain extent howard and monta ellis.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
 Avatar
Posts: 6066
votes: 10

Most of those players are overrated but the arguments used are pretty shoddy.

Also Is probably one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. An argument based on personal emotions about a player means nothing. When KG is on the court the Boston defense is elite. When he is off the court the Boston defense is one of the worst in the league. He is the MVP of the Celtics imo.

Overall, just a terrible list.

Dwight Howard on the Magic was not overrated but fortunate that he never had any competition in this weak center league. Now that he has a broken back and a series of other injuries I am not sure if he will ever become as good as he once was. His clownish attitude is also a no-no.

As for Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings.... Well high volume low efficiency scorers(chuckers) are always grossly overrated and to be frank a detriment to their teams.

I am pretty sure Willie Green is easily worse than Butler anyway. lol

FightOnRon
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4806
Location: The Darkside
us.gif
votes: 39

Well if that list is in pecking order,,Caron needs to try harder to be more of a stiff,,he is only in 12th !

Who cares what some guy writes,,we see what happens on the floor in terms of wins and that is what is important,,some some clone's opinion of stiffs.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

I agree with him being the weakest link of the starters (when Billups returns). Hopefully we can find a young starter via a trade next year.

LotsoHope
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1738
votes: 9

Weakest link? Do they not see Willie Green on the floor?

Caron may not be the player he used to be but he's found a great role on this team by spreading the floor and providing decent perimeter defense. That's the thing about our roster - aside from CP3 and BG, nobody else needs to do a lot of the heavy lifting. Guys are playing to their strengths and they all complement each other. His being on that list doesn't concern me one bit, and when Billups comes back, he's going to have even more open looks to sweeten his efficiency.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
 Avatar
Posts: 9158

us.gif
votes: 118

Stand still shooter?

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

^That's the exception to his rule' lol.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9158

us.gif
votes: 118

^ But this thread was a great excuse to see that again... especially with Dallas coming in tomorrow.

LotsoHope
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1738
votes: 9

^ Yeah I remember a couple of Caron's sweet drives and slams this season. I think defenders are expecting him to take jumpers so often, that just frees up driving lanes for him with one pump fake. However, Caron doesn't face up and blow by defenders, but then again one can argue with this many weapons the Clips have on the floor, he doesn't need to have that in his arsenal.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

Small sample size but with Billups on the court in his only 3 games, Butler was 7-25 (28%).

LotsoHope
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1738
votes: 9

^ Can you give me that stat for last season?

CP3Best
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5063
votes: 13

Butler only drives it like once or twice the most in a game, he's clumsy on defense, where he doesn't even TRY to put a hand up, he just goes there and stretches his arm, fouling machine, I agree he's overrated, but his shooting is what we need, and more Often than not he delivers.

DeadPoet
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 248
Location: Muelheim Germany
gm.gif
votes: 1

I don't like his fake ball shots when he can shot a 3. often he missed them or it's a turnover.

I think he has a much better percent rate in his 3Ps than in his long 2 jumpers. Razz

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

Of Butlers total of FGA's this season, only 14% have been either a layup or dunk...about the same as last year. Exception to his rule.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2013/

DeadPoet
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 248
Location: Muelheim Germany
gm.gif
votes: 1

thx!

stats don't lie Razz

At Rim

19 36 .528

3 to 9 ft

7 17 .412

10 to 15 ft

10 21 .476

16 ft to 3-pt

33 84 .393 (and don't forget the traveling turnovers here wink)

3-pt

52 129 .403

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

In 18 games playing with Chauncey, he was 98-229 43% just about the same as his LTFG% of .438.

DeadPoet
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 248
Location: Muelheim Germany
gm.gif
votes: 1

Funny to compare it with other players

Blake Griffin famous shot

16 ft to 3-pt

47 129 .364

Eric Bledsoe

16 ft to 3-pt

13 52 .250 lol

3-pt

11 32 .344

Chris Paul

16 ft to 3-pt

50 108 .463 8)

Grant Hill last season:

16 ft to 3-pt

74 151 .490 8)

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

Depends what your looking for....sometimes you have to delve into the numbers a little deeper. wink

DeadPoet
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 248
Location: Muelheim Germany
gm.gif
votes: 1

I think butler should take more 10 - 15 ft jumpers if he can't attack the rim so often. Maybe he also get some more FT. He has only 42 FT attemps.

the 16ft and more region is Chris Paul area and maybe Grant Hill - i hope so. wink

LotsoHope
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1738
votes: 9

Funny that there's no difference to Caron's FG% with Billups on the floor, I guess maybe both him and CP3 feel like they get better shots (per what they commented on playing with Chauncey last season), but not necessarily translating to better efficiency.

Though I think we can all agree Billups does help the ball movement and spacing for all our starters, certainly much more so than Green.

Grillinnap
Posts: 7377
Location: Laughing at irrational Laker morons
votes: 22

Was the personal reason for missing the game against GSW ever disclosed?

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 15374
votes: 91

Clippers hit DOUBLE the threes per game, had 25 percent more assists and played significantly better defense in the 3 games Billups was back. That's how much of a negative impact Green has as the starter and Billups was rusty as hell to boot.

As for Butler vs Hill people don't seem to realize Grant Hill has been a lights out midrange shooter and still elite defender in the last 5 years or so. He's still MUCH better at Butler 8 years older and all at running a fastbreak, making good passes, playing defense and knocking down the jumper. The only area where Butler is better is shooting the 3 and attacking the rim (when he actually decides to).

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 6066
votes: 10

Billups is a high volume 3 point shooter that is 39% from deep his whole career. That is Ray Allen esque.... He is also elite at drawing fouls.

I don't even need to talk about his intangibles, playmaking ability, and leadership.... Huge upgrade over Willie Green.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
Posts: 15374
votes: 91

Agree 100 percent. Hill+Billups replacing our big weak links in the starting 5 guarantees a title in my eyes. What team in the NBA could handle CP3, Billups, Hill, Griffin and DJ on top of the best bench in the game? That's too much versatility and dominance in all facets of the game.

hoopfanjd31
Clipper Starter
Posts: 724
votes: 3

I agree too. The problem is that I don't think we can count on either Billups or Hill staying healthy. I just have this feeling that both of them are going to be in and out of the line up because of injuries.

Amnesty_David_Stern
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2333
votes: 7

Whoever wrote this list is an idiot, ESP the Kevin Garnett thing. Do you know that when KG is on the floor the Celtics are the #1 defensive team in the NBA? When he is not on the floor they are dead last in defense? Fact.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
Posts: 15374
votes: 91

hoopfanjd31 wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Agree 100 percent. Hill+Billups replacing our big weak links in the starting 5 guarantees a title in my eyes. What team in the NBA could handle CP3, Billups, Hill, Griffin and DJ on top of the best bench in the game? That's too much versatility and dominance in all facets of the game.

I agree too. The problem is that I don't think we can count on either Billups or Hill staying healthy. I just have this feeling that both of them are going to be in and out of the line up because of injuries.

That's our teams biggest weakness. Half the team is made of glass. So either we can be blessed and healthy to win a championship or watch our season go down the drain due to injuries. Will be interesting to see which path happens.

LotsoHope
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1738
votes: 9

I believe there was a death in his family.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4526

mx.gif
votes: 30

LotsoHope wrote:
Grillinnap wrote:
Was the personal reason for missing the game against GSW ever disclosed?

I believe there was a death in his family.

yeah, one of his uncles died after a lengthy illness.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4526

mx.gif
votes: 30

i think people sometimes are harsh to butler due to the salary he makes. but whether or not people think hes a weak link, the guy has the respect of the teammates around him. i dont find it a coincidence that butler being out versus the warriors in oakland last week may have played a significant part in our loss. he comes back and we win a back to back versus the lakers and the warriors. he brings toughness and a sense of confidence to the starting lineup. cant overlook that

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4753

us.gif
votes: 24

Although i do want him to have his minutes reduced due to a decline in play I have to acknowledge that he has done a lot for our team. His acquisition was key at the time. This was before we had CP3, and it was him and Billups that were brought in to join Mo, Blake, and DJ. At the time Butler was one of the few free agents actually wanting to come here, and Billups was basically an enigma because he warned everyone not to bid on him.

In that regard Butler was a key free agent that would usher in a change. Love him for that, but as far as now he does deserve to be the man with least amount of minutes, especially with Barnes playing as hot as he is and with Hill coming back.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4526

mx.gif
votes: 30

^ i feel hill will play based on matchups. we cant expect hill to right away come in and play 25 minutes. until hill gets caught up, i feel he will play, at most, 12-15 minutes. the rest will probably be divided among barnes and butler.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 6066
votes: 10

Hill should be playing the least minutes. He has been inactive for a while. He should steadily get more minutes depending on his play.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4526

mx.gif
votes: 30

^ well put

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4753

us.gif
votes: 24

i agree. even 12 15 min would be a stretch. my comments on time division account for once hill gets worked in...clearly not now, hill should be baby stepping it

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

As much as Caron has driven me crazy, really both seasons so far (I mean he's a terrible rebounder...but he hasn't always been), I still like our lineup, especially when Chauncey in part of it. With Barnes off the bench (no matter what, I WANT Barnes back next year and years to come). I suppose vice versa would be fine too...heck it might even make more sense. But Hill is difficult to figure out. Even if he does play well, what happens to CB and MB? Hopefully MB doesn't lose any playing time, because he's playing the best basketball of his career. Will Hill be willing to be the third guy? How much longer will he have anyway at age 40?

I'm just overly concerned that something's going to throw off our chemistry. lol

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9498
votes: 20

Think we slide everyone over and play small off the bench when Hill is ready for more mins. Hill at the 4 like he was at times with the Suns and Odom at the 5 and if we are getting beat up on the glass or interior d isn't holding up we keep Hollins and Turiaf active to step in at any moment.

As far as Butler he is having a brutal year but all he has to do is just be more assertive and keep moving on offense. I understand we want to make room for BG and at times DJ on the block but when the ball is moving he should be cutting to the rim and unlike Barnes Butler can post up so he should be looking to set screens and get switches more often so he can bang down low.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9351
votes: 22

That hasn't been his type of game for a long time, so don't think that's gonna happen. Those days are long gone.

Go To the Top of the ThreadGo Home

or Comment Using FB

Post new topic   Reply to topic


← As Blake Griffin Goes, So Go the Clippers.

→ Hoopchalk: Blake Griffin has a damn good post game

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

register
You are an anonymous user- Register now!


Follow our Los Angeles Clippers RSS Feed, plus the Clippers Rumors RSS Feed, the LA Clippers News RSS feed, and the Clippers Forum RSS feed to get the newest updated Clippers News and Trade Rumors plus Clippers Game update in your RSS/XML reader!