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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342069by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:18 PM PST
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Yup. The team decided to start running iso ball and jacking up 3's. Great idea!



                
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OregonLAA
Post ID: 342070by OregonLAA » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:19 PM PST
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
OregonLAA wrote:
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@Oregon

Now you see why I bitch even in wins. Developing bad habits will bite you in the ass eventually. If the average Clippers fans can see these errors, there is no excuse for Vinny not to. Usually the give the ball to CP3 and get out of the way works but it won't work against coaches like Pop. Fix it now or pay the price when it counts most.

We have beaten the Spurs twice this season along with several other very good teams. So obvious we are doing just fine. Pop needs to make better adjustments, I guess

Bit different losing to equal contenders vs losing to scrub teams at home. Way to avoid context.

You're saying we are going to have problems against good teams in the playoffs. And guys like Pop are going to make adjustments and we will lose. Well, I am saying that we did just fine against them this year

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342076by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:22 PM PST
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It wasn't even the offense. It was our defense. We gave the Magic 21 points in 6 minutes. Our interior and perimeter defense was poor. Then those critical two offensive rebounds in a row that the Magic got since we were playing small ball and not playing DJ. We needed DJ's interior defense and rebounding. Also his offense in the post would have been useful.

                
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clipperstown
Post ID: 342077by clipperstown » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:22 PM PST
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In 21 minutes, DJ was 5-6 from the field, 1 foul. he had 10 points, 6 boards ( 3 offensive boards), 2 assists, 2 blocks, and a steal. WTF

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342078by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:22 PM PST
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@Oregon

Again.... you're failing to use context. Not all losses or wins are related to Vinny. About half the time I've been defending Vinny and even agreed with Joe that 70 percent of the time it's on the players this year. Doesn't mean 30 percent of the time, win or lose Vinny isn't a bonehead.

Why make things harder on the team by making so many easily correctable errors? I'm okay with losses but not by ones that were so easily avoidable. DJ could have helped a ton when the Magic were scoring layup after layup and Odom was getting burned don't you think? Do you agree with Crawford playing the entire 4th quarter when he was having the worst game of his Clippers career? Crawford pretty much threw the game away and the coaching was a huge part of that.

As I mentioned earlier why are we going Crawford iso multiple times in crunch time even though the defense already knows that's what we are going to run and Crawford is ICE cold and doing nothing right? A great coach looks at that situation and says look Crawford normally is our guy in this spot but today he can't hit a shot so let's catch them off guard and try another play.

                
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Grillinnap
Post ID: 342079by Grillinnap » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:26 PM PST
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Vinny does deserve flak for his lack of trust in DJ especially when he's playing well.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342080by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:27 PM PST
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Yea the DJ thing is most baffling. I get that DJ is usually a liability but when he DOES bring it like he did today freaking play the guy 30+ minutes and give him a chance! Remember that game forgot against who... where DJ absolutely DOMINATED the last 2 minutes to hand us the W?

                
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OregonLAA
Post ID: 342081by OregonLAA » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:27 PM PST
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It's a long season. You stick with guys. Look at Barnes. He couldn't make anything to start the season. Not he can't miss. That pays off big when the playoffs come around

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 342082by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:27 PM PST
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agreed. id like to say, my gripe with vdn is that he should be talking to the refs about their bs double standards for us and the opposing team. we got a lot of touch fouls called on us. the magic got away with hitting our guys in the paint. we easily should have gotten at least half a dozen and ones. but yeah, the refs didnt allow 11 threes.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342083by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:27 PM PST
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Exactly. If he can't get burn when he plays well when can he ever have major minutes? We don't pay a guy big time money to warm the bench every 4th quarter. Its a complete joke....

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342084by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:29 PM PST
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Another thing is why did Hill get like 3 minutes and get pulled lol? He was playing very hard and got 2 rebounds and a couple stops.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 342085by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:30 PM PST
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yeah taking out dj was not a great move. ill give u that. that and not taking out barnes with the 5 fouls.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342092by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:31 PM PST
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Huh? Barnes was a great addition immediately. Maybe he wasn't a lights out shooter but that's not why we got him and why he plays so much. He was added for his defense and rebounding which have been great from day 1. Your idea of "riding with my guys" is exactly why Butler and Green continue to start despite significantly better players right behind them.

                
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morpheus9
Post ID: 342094by morpheus9 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:35 PM PST
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Taking DJ out the game had nothing to do with the outcome. The plays that the magic were making came from the perimeter players crawford and barnes inability to defend the jump shooters. They were hitting 3s and getting fouled from the 3 point line getting 4 point plays. There were no drive layups being converted i saw two block shots odom made the last 3 minutes of the game. The clippers went to sleep and also there was no point in benching turiaf this messed up the rythym the substitution rotations and chemistry.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342096by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:38 PM PST
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Most of the 3's were pretty well contested. It's actually THOSE shots the team didn't have much control over but rather all the easy layups and rebounds they got (DJ being on bench). Redick and Afflalo hitting contested 30 foot 3's all night isn't something you can stop when they are hot. What you CAN do is crash the boards, stop the wide open layups and play defense, all of which would have been greatly improved by DJ.

                
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morpheus9
Post ID: 342098by morpheus9 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:42 PM PST
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I didn't see the driving lay ups the last 5 minutes of the game i saw big threes. DJ or not the game would have went the same way the way they were shooting the basketball.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342099by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:44 PM PST
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Just off the top of my head I can remember 5-7 pretty much uncontested layups. We actually hit as many 3's as them I'm pretty sure. Which is why again the 3 pointer isn't the back breaker here IMO. A few were wide open but most were contested, tough shots a player normally won't hit.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342100by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:44 PM PST
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morpheus9 wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Most of the 3's were pretty well contested. It's actually THOSE shots the team didn't have much control over but rather all the easy layups and rebounds they got (DJ being on bench). Redick and Afflalo hitting contested 30 foot 3's all night isn't something you can stop when they are hot. What you CAN do is crash the boards, stop the wide open layups and play defense, all of which would have been greatly improved by DJ.
I didn't see the driving lay ups the last 5 minutes of the game i saw big threes. DJ or not the game would have went the same way the way they were shooting the basketball.

McRoberts Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Redick (3 AST) 03:05 [ORL 97-97]

Redick Driving Finger Roll Layup Shot: Made (18 PTS) Assist: Nelson (8 AST) 01:48 [ORL 99-99]

Two easy layups in a short amount of time.

McRoberts Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 01:29 Redick 3pt Shot: Missed 01:04 McRoberts Rebound (Off:1 Def:1) 01:02 McRoberts Layup Shot: Missed 00:57.9 Vucevic Rebound (Off:5 Def:10) 00:54.7 Team Timeout : Regular 00:54.7 Redick 3pt Shot: Made (21 PTS) Assist: Nelson (9 AST) 00:42.1 [ORL 102-99]

Then two consecutive offensive boards leading to a Redick 3.

                
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ClippersDA
Post ID: 342101by ClippersDA » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:45 PM PST
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I didn't realize this was an afternoon game and I missed it!!!!! What happened????? Was the effort poor like in early losses???

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342102by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:45 PM PST
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Very poor execution by VDN in terms of rotations. Bad plays, etc.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 342105by CapsNClips » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:50 PM PST
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I'm not upset with this loss, we know we are still the best team in the NBA and my only criticism of Vinny is not letting DJ play when he was dominating.

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 342106by TheDude » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:51 PM PST
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Bledsoe was terrible AGAIN. Caron was terrible. Crawford killed us at the end. Barnes was off today but he is allowed to have a bad game once in a while.

I'm just sick of watching Bled turn the ball over and make terrible decisions in transition. This game should have put away in the 2nd quarter and CP3 shouldn't have had to be on the court at the end. If he's hurt it's on Bled and the rest of the 2nd team for not playing with some damn focus.

Just lackluster overall except for our two stars. Such an obvious trap game that we should have never been trapped. 2nd team was atrocious all day. Most pissed I've been all season. I just pray CP3 is not hurt. Bone bruise on that knee and we won't see him for a month at best...Either that or we'll have 50% cp3 like we had against the Spurs in the PO's last year.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 342107by Clippersfan86 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:56 PM PST
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Is this Caron referring to the coaching?

"What's the difference between chess and checkers????"

lol..

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 342108by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Jan 12, 2013 - 05:58 PM PST
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^ relax, cp3 wasnt that hurt. he may be sore for a few days, but nothing he cant play through, at more than 85 percent. i can see you probably were overlooking the magic as well. i knew this game would be close. eventhough they had 10 losses in a row, three of their losses were in ot, and i believe none of their losses were more than 8 points. so they were going to be in the game. butler wasnt terrible. he was making his shots. playing solid d. even green was solid today. ebled did play bad. and crawford made terrible decisions all game. but its just one loss, no need to be so upset.

                
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ClippersDA
Post ID: 342115by ClippersDA » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:08 PM PST
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What happened to Chris? Is he ok? Ugh and we play Memphis on Monday.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342121by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:11 PM PST
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Just a minor injury I think. He was running ok and made a jump shot right after.

                
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clipperstown
Post ID: 342122by clipperstown » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:17 PM PST
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we were up 7 with like 5 minutes to go. that tells the story right there

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 342130by toohipcliptoslip » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:28 PM PST
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We played like crap but we lost on fouls from "Bingo" land. Also VDN kept the bench in too long and allowed them to blow the lead. He was probrbly thinking that the starters would blow them out. We played to the level of our competition.

On another note did anyone see the jumper DJ made? He made a nice fade away last game that everybody said was luck I don't think so. Bruce Bowen was 39% from 3pt and 40% FG % but only 57% Ft. I think DJ has a shot also he made some downright dirty post moves

                
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OptimusDimes
Post ID: 342137by OptimusDimes » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:37 PM PST
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A great game from Griffin, wasted by lack of focus on the defensive end by the second unit, and poor sub rotations.

Cp3 wasn't agressive enough early as far as scoring, and I thought the first unit was pulled way to early, right when they were getting good traction. I don't understand playing cp3 a whole half(last game), and then pulling him before the end of the quarter when he was the reason everything was clicking early.

Crawford was pretty bad, and you still see glipses of some of his bad habits at times. More lately.

Barnes was better, but he didn't play up to his norm as of late.

Bled was Bled, not much he can really do if it's not on the defensive end with that unit IMO.

The real headscratchers for me were the Hill, DJ, and lack of Hollins subs.

Why doesn't DJ play more with the second unit when Turiaf is stinking up the joint, especially when he has an advantage in the post?

I've never like seeing a player brought in the second half of a game that hasn't seen time in the first, much less the whole season(Hill). Mind Boggling.

If Hollins and DJ can't see time against a team where we would need a mobile 7ft, when will they?

Wasn't a terrible game, but seemed like Vinny outcoached himself, and some players really were not on point.

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 342138by TheDude » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:38 PM PST
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he should be looking in the mirror. He sucked today!!! Just atrocious defensively. Grant Hill showing up just in time, hope he can get into shape asap. We need a starting SF if Caron is gonna play with such a weak effort.

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 342146by TheDude » Jan 12, 2013 - 06:40 PM PST
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Yah I don't get it why he chooses to give GHill his first minutes of the season in the 4th quarter of a tight game. Vinny gives the impression of not respecting the opposition with a move like that...He should have gotten his 8 minutes in the 2nd quarter.

                
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ClipperB23
Post ID: 342150by ClipperB23 » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:00 PM PST
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Blake played great today but he didn't attempt a shot in the 4th quarter, that is unacceptable.

                
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Post ID: 342153by mj_shoefanatic » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:02 PM PST
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Terrible loss

on my birthday too Neutral

                
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fattner
Post ID: 342154by fattner » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:03 PM PST
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Look clipper fans we will not win every gm , they were more hungery than us and a few bone head move from the clippers s !! It's a learning experience , I'm ok with it !!! Grizzles will feel our pain Monday !!

                
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OptimusDimes
Post ID: 342161by OptimusDimes » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:14 PM PST
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Bled and DJ have good chemistry and should play together more IMO.

                
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Griffinforpresident
Post ID: 342162by Griffinforpresident » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:16 PM PST
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Just take 2 out of the next three road games, and this game will be forgotten.

If the Clips lose the next three games, Vinny will be back on the hot seat.

                
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clippermitch
Post ID: 342165by clippermitch » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:21 PM PST
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I was at the game and this game was lost at the defensive end. Barnes and Crawford got torched by Reddick and Afflalo.

This is a big weakness that we have. We need a defensive stopper at end of the game situations. Bledsoe should have been in the end to hound Reddick. Barnes couldn't keep him in check.

Also, CP might be more hurt than we think. The possession where Crawford got a charge, CP3 had a lane open but he passed it up. Not like him to do that.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 342166by cleepers » Jan 12, 2013 - 07:24 PM PST
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Barnes played very timidly after getting that 5th foul, not fighting through screens and not contesting jumpers well. Maybe Willie would have been a better option on Reddick. Odom and Bled weren't themselves on 'D' either.

Most of our jumpshots were fairly open, so I don't mind the guys taking them, but we almost never had anyone in position to even contest for an offensive board. DJ should have seen more action down the stretch and that's on Vinny.

The refs didn't help either... not so much on 'D', but Blake, Jamal and Matty were getting hacked all through the first half and Tony Brothers swallowed his whistle. I had a bad feeling when I heard Ralph announce his name.

Bottom line is that our guys coasted "knowing" they could pull away down the stretch and that's always dangerous. I hate these noon games.

Still, in an 82-game season there will be games like this, and hopefully it'll get them aggressive for the road trip. Truth be told, they needed a fire lit under them since they've been allowing the effort to slip for a few games now. The Memphis game will be a much better barometer of what this team is capable of than a matinee against a cellar-dweller.

I've moved on already.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 342173by Icecoldclipper » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:12 PM PST
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Just amazes me still how stubborn VDN was and how we didn't go to a clear advantage. Both bigs dominanted in the paint how does Griffin not get a look in the post to score and Jordan not even get on the floor. That is not even taking into account the obvious need for size and length we needed late in the fourth to get boards and avoid easy shots.

                
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AaronLovingBG
8 Post Subject: Why dont let blake shoot more? Post ID: 342174by AaronLovingBG » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:16 PM PST
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I cannot understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BG play impressively today. but why teammates and coach forgeted him?

the lose made me disappionted,but more angry!!!!

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 342177by cleepers » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:23 PM PST
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No coach in the league would be on the hot seat with a 28-12 record.

Vinny's safe until we lose 4 out of 7 in a playoff series.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 342178by Icecoldclipper » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:31 PM PST
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Just amazes me still how stubborn VDN was and how we didn't go to a clear advantage. Both bigs dominanted in the paint how does Griffin not get a look in the post to score and Jordan not even get on the floor. That is not even taking into account the obvious need for size and length we needed late in the fourth to get boards and avoid easy shots.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 342179by pageC4 » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:35 PM PST
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Unfortunately, I missed this game, but I saw on the box score that Grant hill saw about 6 minutes. The game summary said his shot was off as he was 0-3 and only logged in 2 points via the charity stripe. Vinny got some heat for that decision, especially since we lost a lead by placing Hill in. For once though I am on board with Vinnys decision to put Hill in. Hill has to get some time and if that comes at the cost of one lousy game that meant nothing so be it. VDN made a great decision to slowly integrate Hill. In the end the small forward position will be greatly bolstered by Hills infusion into the lineup. I'm with you on the decision Vinny

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 342180by cleepers » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:40 PM PST
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Meh - in real terms, Hill being in was pretty neutral. The big problem at SF was Barnes playing with 5 fouls down the stretch.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 342181by Icecoldclipper » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:40 PM PST
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Vinny should of put him in during the second quarter. We all pretty much knew his shot would be flat coming off injury but on top of that he and the entire bench was cold. To put him in with a bench that was lost all night made us look even worse.

With Spurs loss and Memphis might lose tonight we don't lose to much ground we just need OKC to loss a game.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 342182by pageC4 » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:44 PM PST
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cleepers wrote:
pageC4 wrote:
Unfortunately, I missed this game, but I saw on the box score that Grant hill saw about 6 minutes. The game summary said his shot was off as he was 0-3 and only logged in 2 points via the charity stripe. Vinny got some heat for that decision, especially since we lost a lead by placing Hill in. For once though I am on board with Vinnys decision to put Hill in. Hill has to get some time and if that comes at the cost of one lousy game that meant nothing so be it. VDN made a great decision to slowly integrate Hill. In the end the small forward position will be greatly bolstered by Hills infusion into the lineup. I'm with you on the decision Vinny

Meh - in real terms, Hill being in was pretty neutral. The big problem at SF was Barnes playing with 5 fouls down the stretch.

It will take some time for Hills game to come back, but its a start. I hope he loggs some more minutes next game too

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 342183by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:45 PM PST
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Hill being in pretty much had no impact on the outcome of the game. Not putting DJ in and letting Barnes play with 5 fouls was a poor decision. Among other things.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 342185by pageC4 » Jan 12, 2013 - 08:53 PM PST
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CP3Heliflopter wrote:
pageC4 wrote:
Unfortunately, I missed this game, but I saw on the box score that Grant hill saw about 6 minutes. The game summary said his shot was off as he was 0-3 and only logged in 2 points via the charity stripe. Vinny got some heat for that decision, especially since we lost a lead by placing Hill in. For once though I am on board with Vinnys decision to put Hill in. Hill has to get some time and if that comes at the cost of one lousy game that meant nothing so be it. VDN made a great decision to slowly integrate Hill. In the end the small forward position will be greatly bolstered by Hills infusion into the lineup. I'm with you on the decision Vinny
Hill being in pretty much had no impact on the outcome of the game. Not putting DJ in and letting Barnes play with 5 fouls was a poor decision. Among other things.
Ahh, i see. thanks for the clarification Very Happy

                
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david
Post ID: 342192by david » Jan 12, 2013 - 09:24 PM PST
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Just too much complacency and perhaps arrogance on the Clippers part tonight. I mean a 5 point game at the start of the 4th, and that's when Grant Hill makes his season debut? Sorry but that's not the time to do tinker with the lineup. Second quarter maybe.

But what really doomed the Clippers tonight was poor rebounding and poor 3 point defense. Quite a few times we made stops but just could not grab the darn rebound. Part of it was because of the very undersized lineup out there w/ DJ playing so few minutes, but part of it was the lack of enough rebounders/rotation into rebounding position after so multiple guys aggressively went for the block. DJ was having a pretty good game, so it was puzzling why he didn't play after his stint in the 3rd quarter. It's definitely not about matchups because Lamar Odom is not going to match up well rebounding-wise against a rebounding monster in Vucecic. And if you want to run them off the 3 point line and make them drive, you need a shot blocker like DJ at the rim.

Another key factor in the loss was below par outside shooting. Jamal was off, and CP3 was off. Blake was *awesome *inside tonight, but once he came in the 4th in a tight game, he became kind of passive and would just rather hurry and kick the ball back out. Part of it too is that his teammates need to give him the ball inside and let him work in the 4th.

So yeah you don't rebound as well as you should, you don't defend 3 point shooters consistently, and you take and miss too many jumpers- that's a recipe for defeat.

                
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harthart1
Post ID: 342195by harthart1 » Jan 12, 2013 - 09:34 PM PST
Posts: 17
Reputation: 2.5Reputation: 2.5 Rep Post +1
votes: 0

Any news about CP3's knee? Im praying that he'll be able to play next game. Sad(

                
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