DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 24)

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jarca
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why did you say "even Timmy D is better than DJ"l is that surprising though? Duncan is an elite defender and the Spurs hold opponents to the 4th lowest pts/possession in the league, I don't think we should be surprised. I wouldn't say those numbers imply DJ is terrible, Gasol's numbers for example are terrible. They say DJ isn't elite, but we didn't think that anyways, just that he's better and good. The stat is a good starting point, but like all stats we need some context. DJ can sometimes be lax in contesting shots he feels he has no chance at,....

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tense2
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He MAY do those things, but he's getting better defensively and trending in the right direction. He has work to do and next year he'll be better then this year. Keep moving forward DJ.

Agent0
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I agree and have mentioned that before, there's no value in challenging shots you aren't in position to properly affect as you can just give up and 1's or foul for no reason. He isn't always able to get in the proper position to challenge well enough, but he's better and he isn't terrible.

namzug
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There is also the lack of a good defensive Center behind him. Going for more blocks even when out of position would be an option if we had a shot blocking Center behind him or some on that could still keep players from wanting to go to the whole. With DJ out Big Baby is not the defensive center that does that. Big Baby is not terrible, but he is no shot blocking Center.

clipper*joe
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I agree, it would be stupid for DJ to challenge every shot. But, I think most of us are talking about the countless plays where he just stands there in no man's land and watches the play and does nothing. he doesn't commit to his man, or the penetrator. I think that is where his IQ is questioned. He seems to be one or two steps behind on a lot of plays. Not only that, when he runs the ball handler (PG) out of the paint (Dbl team), he gets lost and breaks down the team defense. Again, he stays in no man's land and leaves the other defenders scrambling to get to the open man. DJ tends to stay locked in the PG at the elbow a lot of the times without the realizing there is a open man around him.

BG, Big Baby, and even Hollins run the PG out on the perimeter but ALWAYS run back to their man once he's contained. That's how it should be done but DJ has a big problem with that. With that said, he's done a lot of good things on the court this year but it's the mental lapses that have me tearing out my hair every game. Those types of plays might have someone other than DJ's man scoring but it's his mental lapses that cost us points.

clipper*joe
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But he does something DJ doesn't...He keeps his man on him in the post. He bangs in the paint and does a good job of sealing his man. DJ walks back with his man and is easily tricked on the first move. Either a back to the basket blow by, or pump fake.

namzug
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Ok, so maybe we should replace DJ with Big Baby in the starting line up. Just kidding. I think DJ has done great against certain types of Centers. I think he does well with most Centers that don't have a reliable outside shot and struggles with those that do. Which most have trouble with reliable outside shooting centers.

I figure you won't give too much credit to DJ until he shows something great in the playoffs. Which in reality that is probably what most of us should do. I am definitely waiting on the playoffs to determine if he should be extended.

With that said his improvement has been great, and I think he is in the top 5 this year as far as defensive centers go. Now the only thing that is left is for him to step up during the playoffs.

A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Page 1 and page 24 look like 2 completely different threads. I'm proud of DJ. He may have his faults but no doubt he impacts the game in a positive way. I just hope he maintains and grows on this.

clipper*joe
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Hey, you can't deny that I am consistent. Very Happy

Also, it ain't different, I am talking man on man defense. Like when the offensive guy is backing DJ down? Like one on one? Like when the player has the ball in his hands and is trying to take the outside shot? Those are plays that I'm specifically talking about. Those are the plays BG made against one of the best....Not against guys like Zaza Pachulia.

namzug
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I think DJ still needs to improve. I think he needs to gain some muscle, because I think he get's pushed a little to easy. That is a spot where I feel Blake has an advantage over DJ. I just think it's tougher on DJ than Blake, because there is more on DJ's shoulders defensively while Blake only has his man to worry about. I think they both have improved a great deal, but with Blake already had the expectations where DJ might not have had as much.

I was also a Vinny hater so I tend to blame probably a bit more than I should on him and his defensive schemes or lack thereof.

clipper*joe
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I guess busting DJ's balls has become my shtick. lol

I am happy that he isn't a liability anymore. But i don't blame VDN one bit. Coaches aren't into the making players business. They use the talent they have to build a team. Some will coddle you (VDN), build your ego (Doc), or make you play their way, or sit ( Pops). Doc isn't responsible for making Blake, or CP3. He inherited...He wanted to play with the talent we had already.

Look at it this way:

Doc has benefited from a more mature BG and DJ. Not to mention a better team. And yet, VDN is neck and neck with Doc in terms of regular season records. So people wanted a scapegoat and they got him. But if Doc can't get past the first round, then maybe people will realize the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

clipper*joe
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ClipperPostman wrote:

Doc putting DJ in the 4th qtr where took him out, has tremendously developed

DJ's confidence.

He gave DJ a ROLE and got him to believe he could be DPOY. This instilled motivation

and confidence in DJ by allowing DJ to see more in himself than he previously had.

Again something a great LEADER (Coach) does.

Actually, DJ was a slouch when it came to putting in time. That was his reputation coming out of college and was up until Doc wanted to trade him. Lucas has said DJ would not commit to him on improving his game. And it wasn't until Doc made a move to trade him for garnett, that DJ said he "could" be DPOY under Doc. Mind you, he said that while this trading fiasco was going on. When the league stepped in and said we couldn't trade with the celtics, that's when Doc started saying he could be DPOY. In other words, he started stroking him knowing he was going to stay here. I agree, that was great for Doc to do that cause he wanted to keep things calm.

Quote:
While most people may think A player getting "better" just relates

to his "Work ethic" in the gym. Any great coach will tell you otherwise...

Again the role of the coach isn't just to "make schemes and draw up plays".

The GREAT coaches know that. The great coaches such as Phil Jackson

understand it's about

  1. Getting players to believe (Motivation)

  2. Seeing more in the players than the players see in themselves.

  3. Putting the players in the right position to succeed.

  4. Managing the fragile ego's of human beings and finding a way

to get them to work together towards a common goal.

Which Doc has done masterfully this season.

Your arguments are so faulty. When you use phrases like "tell any coach and he'll tell you", without you having done that yourself, it's time to move on...

david
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Let's keep DeAndre Jordan performance talk in this thread in the future- thanks guys.

letitbled
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DJ deserves a lot of credit. He puts out a lot of effort and exudes more energy than anyone else on the team. He's such a stud I think we could get a bundle for him but we'd be foolish to even think of that. He's perfect for the team. He's been so instrumental in a ton of victories that he should be in the talk for team MVP. Sure Blake and Chris are the men but DJ's only a half step behind. When's the last game he's missed?

Kingkanyon
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I love the Doc Made DJ into what he is today stuff. I mean sure he gave him a specific thing to focus on "on the court", But DJ got Stronger in the Off Season, He studied more tape, worked on his footwork, basically he worked on the things he needed to work on to get better. I always thought he was a good rebounder and defender but he just got better in all those area's. So we can credit Doc all we want but Kendrick Perkins never did this, Nor has any other Center under Docs Tutelage. Doc Saw his talents he recognized what he could be, but ultimately DJ got their on his own accord, just like every other good player, we don't give him enough credit, and for anybody thinking we should have traded him or that he doesn't do enough today, your either Blind or you will never accept him, kinda like I'll never except another player being better than Jordan, not matter what they do I'll never accept it.

ClipperPostman
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Docs roll in DJ's development is instilling the confidence and motivation

in DJ to develop his potential.

Doc deserves credit, and so does DJ because at the end of the day

he had to put the work in to get better.

I think some of you like "KingKanyon" are confusing how a coach makes

a player better.

Kendrick Perkins never did what DJ is doing because he never

had the potential in him to do it.

Coaches take potential and actualize it. i saw DJ's potential

since he was a rookie.

VDN was a prime example of a coach who didn't know how to

actualize DJ's Talent. It's no coincidence DJ went from being

at the bottom in terms of Centers to the conversion in TOP Centers

in one season.

clipper*joe
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^^ Doc convinced him to concentrate on the boards and anchoring the defense. Doc has said it from the start and said it numerous times in pregame interviews. Doc came to this team with respect knowing he had coached 3 potential HOF's into changing their game for the betterment of the team. The potential trade and an off-season with the Olympic team had more of an impact on his maturity than Doc did. Of course, that's my opinion. In case your forgot, DJ acted out a lot last season thinking he deserved more than he got. It wasn't too long ago that CP3, Billups, and even BG were scolding him during his mistakes on the court.

Doc didn't develop him, he told him what his role was on this team and don't worry about any other stuff (offense). Obviously DJ took it to heart and has netted him his best season. Not because he developed him, but because he told him what he role is...Just like he told CP3 he hasn't accomplished anything yet.

clipper*joe
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So Doc saw the potential in him to limit what he expects from him? Using your rationale, he probably doesn't see any potential in his offensive game cause he told him not to worry about it. When does Doc call a play for him? How about an ISO for him from time to time? A lot of DJ's points are not drawn up, they're transition points on lobs, offensive putbacks, or things of that nature. I guess VDN has to be the stupiest coach of all-time for actually calling early plays for him the last few seasons he was here. VDN actually called plays for DJ to start off games so he instills confidence in him. I called it "coddling" at the time and hated it. Doc would never do that for DJ...hasn't, and probably never will. Just like he never did it for Perkins, he won't do it for DJ. That's not what Doc wants DJ for. He just simplified his game to where he can manage, and excel in it. Don't confuse "development and confidence" with limiting DJ's responsibilities. Doc just had the cache and respect to tell DJ what he should worry about.

jarca
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Anchoring the defense and grabbing boards isn't limiting their responsibilities, it's maximizing ones talents on the court which what coaches are supposed to do. I guess Ben Wallace's responsibilities and Chandler were limited since they only play defense, rebound, lobs, and put backs

clipper*joe
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I think it is. You don't ask a player to do things he can't do. Bynum, Hibbert, Gasol, and even Noah do a lot more things than the guys you mentioned. They do them cause they can.

marten81
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Don't leave screens out, DJ sets good screens on 50% of set plays now, that is 100% more good screens than last season.

BringMcadooBackado
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I used to be very critical of DJs performance and felt that he was holding the team back, but now I think he's an asset. Definitely one of the better centers in the league with a great defensive presence. Yes, he can still improve, but he's doing much better as far as rebounding, contesting versus going for a block, closing out, setting screens and playing help defense.

His free throws are still something to be desired, but he's hitting them on a pretty regular clip when we need them.

I don't think anybody is going to mistake him for Bill Russell, but, in a league with a piss poor selection of centers, he is starting to make a mark.

jarca
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Doc can take credit for teaching DJ how to set proper screens. Very similar to KG without the holding part

namzug
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@Clipper*Joe, so maybe we should ask Blake to be the defensive anchor. It's too much to ask all of that from one player.

DJ has doubled his rebounds and is a much better player this year. He is limiting his mistakes and is an asset to have on the floor rather than a liability. The hate is now starting to become absurd. You use a player to maximize his talents. DJ has some good footwork in the post, he has terrible hands though so why not maximize his athleticism while you have Blake terrorizing the opponent on the other side.

If we didn't have Blake I'm sure Doc would have to use DJ a lot more, but you have the best PF in the game so why take energy away from DJ on the offensive side. You let him concentrate on defense since he has the tools to be an anchor on defense, and you let Blake be the unstoppable force on offense.

clipper*joe
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You are aware that a center's job is to anchor a defense, right? If that is too much to ask of DJ, maybe he should look to play another position. DJ is doing a good job on hitting clutch free throws, outstanding in rebounding, and great on the open floor. He has improved a lot but I attribute that to Doc simplifying his game. Maybe we have a different definition of hate. I don't hate DJ. I think he fits this team well. I get annoyed by everything else he does. Face it, there isn't much to complain about with this team. And DJ sin;t the only I complain about. But DJ does make the most bone headed mistakes on this team. When he can't catch a simple pass for a easy score, I'll complain. When he turns it over on a inbounds play under the opponents basket, I'll complain. When he tries to dunk and misses on a play where a layup would suffice, I'll complain. Maybe it's just that DJ has a soft place in a lot of people's hearts that makes it seem like it's hate. It's not.

tense2
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Most everybody's game has some flaws and those things can be said about everyone on the Clippers. How much you "hate" on each, depends on your mind set.

namzug
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I think that is the closest thing to a compliment that DJ is going to get from you unless he dominates in the playoffs. So lets hope this is just the beginning. I think you have been hesitant to give any props to the guy, and I think you give backhanded compliments when you do. So yeah there is thought to be a little bit of hate in your comments regarding DJ. I understand the feeling of not wanting to get too high on the guys and prepare for a let down later.

So wait Doc simplified his game, but didn't help in his development. Doesn't that play a part in the development. If I am teaching someone math, and I show them how to breakdown a problem into smaller simpler arithmetic problems isn't that helping them develop their mathematical skills.

Anyways hope DJ continues to improve, and I do have to agree with you on that the guy has horrible hands. It should be well known by now to not give the guy low passes around the rim. CP, Jamal, and Blake seem to handle his passes with much more success over guys like Dudley and JJ.

clipper*joe
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No no, I mean he gave him a smaller number of math problems he can master instead of giving him things that would give him trouble or is not good at even though DJ thought he could do them.

tense2
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Sounds like something a good teacher would do. When he "masters" those math problems he can then have confidence to go and hopefully solve the next problems. One step at a time.

clipper*joe
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Of course, if the plan is to give him more problems in the future but I don't think teacher wants that for his pupil.

tense2
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A good teacher would test to see what the pupils abilities can achieve. We don't know yet what DJ can fully achieve. He not a finished product yet.

namzug
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So in your opinion is this years DJ better than last years?

Did Doc have any hand in DJ's improvement?

tense2
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If you're asking me....yes and yes.

namzug
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It was for @Clipper*Joe, but I think the vast majority agree with you and for the few that don't well I'm not really sure what to say about that.

ohMEohMy!
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Watching the Rockets replay, and DJ was just excellent down the stretch. Controlled the paint, set strong screens, was more active on the offensive boards.

clipper*joe
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Yes, he's better by far. I don't know, did Doc show him how to rebound? That's what I'm impressed with.

jarca
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DJ isn't leaking out much and the only one who stays for offensive rebound while the team gets back. That sounds like a coaching had a hand on enhancing his rebound average

Cliptonyte
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Eric Patten, Clippers.com

3/28/14

Follow Eric Patten

There have been times this season when DeAndre Jordan won't shut up.

And it's arguably the best thing that has happened to the Clippers' defense this season.

Six years into his career, Jordan is in the midst of his finest season as a professional. He's the defensive cog that Doc Rivers asked him to be this summer. He's run the floor, he's been the league's best rebounder, he's stayed on the floor in the fourth quarter and he's led.

Of all the things that Jordan has done, including vying for Defensive Player of the Year just months after declaring it a career goal, it has come because he is the most vocal player on the floor every night.

"From a coaching standpoint has been his talk," Rivers said. "He keeps everybody accountable. I think you need a truth teller on defense and a guy that calls all the other coverages. I'm amazed every shootaround how he already knows the other team's offense. It's really nice when you have a player on the floor and you say, 'Two twist down' and he's already moving guys. That's impressive. Then he verbalizes it out on the floor. Other than all of the other stuff you see, that's been very important for our team that he's that committed to it."

Jordan's commitment has been evident since training camp when his deep, sometimes raspy voice could be heard booming throughout the gym at UC San Diego. That was when he was still learning the defense, finding his way in Rivers' system. His confidence has grown since and it has helped vault the Clippers from a porous defense early in the season to one of the league's 10 best heading into the postseason.

All of that started with talk.

"I'm just kind of trying to direct people where to go," Jordan said. "Not tell them where to go, but just like, 'You're guy is going to cut' because a lot of the times, everybody knows everybody's plays in the NBA, so I try to do a little studying before and try to memorize a lot of the plays. People's plays are all the same; it's just different calls. So, if I get the call, I try to let guys know what it is; and if it's a post-up going at Matt [Barnes], I'll let him know, 'Post-up, fight him early. Push up his spot.' And, whoever he's getting the pass from, I'll tell him [Matt Barnes], 'Pressure the pass, because it's going to the post.' Things like that."

It is part of the maturity Jordan has shown as a 25-year-old. He's the longest tenured Clipper on the roster, a year of experience more than his friend Blake Griffin, and for the first time he's playing more than 30 minutes per game. Rivers has shown faith in Jordan and the payoff has been the league's leading rebounder at 13.7 boards per game, and the defensive captain.

Ask coaches around the league about Jordan, though, and his ability to communicate sets and direct teammates standout more than any of the statistical improvements Jordan brings.

"I think he's doing the same thing," Warriors head coach Mark Jackson said. "He's just getting opportunities. He obviously affects the game with his tremendous athleticism and his ability to rebound and his ability to read and react and alter shots. And I think he doesn't get enough credit for how smart he is. I can't think off the top of my head besides [Andrew Bogut], who is our guy, Marc Gasol, and Jordan are the two big men outside of my guy, as a guy calling the plays, they look at it and tell their team what the action is. That's says a lot about his understanding of the game. I don't think the gets enough credit for that."

Jordan's teammates have credited him all season with helping transform a defense that a year ago was susceptible to getting beat by the long ball and in transition. Jordan's presence inside has allowed the Clippers to maintain a ball-hawking, aggressive perimeter defense, defend the 3-point shot, and protect the rim. They lead the NBA in points off turnovers and 3-point defense. According to Jamal Crawford, who has played with Jordan for two seasons, all of that comes back to Jordan.

"He's the defensive player of the year," Crawford said. "He's unbelievable. Sometimes we'll get beat and we'll look up in the air and we know he's there. It's not a good thing to have, but I guess it is a good thing to have in retrospect with him being back there. He's adjusting shots if he's not blocking them. His impact on defense on has been just as good as or better than anybody else in the league."

For Jordan, believing that he was on that level came easy when Rivers arrived. It was empowering. But Rivers couldn't make Jordan a leader. That he had to do on his own.

"At the beginning, I was like, 'Damn.' I know that [my teammates] have more jobs offensively, so I don't want to let them [know what they did wrong defensively]," Jordan said. "But then, they're like, 'No, tell me when I mess up.' Everybody's like 'No, D, you need to let us know, because when you mess up, we're going to let you know. If you're not in the right spot, everybody needs to know because at the end of the day, we're all trying to win a championship. If I tell somebody something, then another person then, we would not be getting better."

Once that realization became clear, he hasn't shut up since.

david
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^^So many accolades from coaches & players- DJ has truly emerged this season and a rebounding machine & a defensive force.

slestack11
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With only 7 games left and over a 1 rebound lead, I'd say Deandre has the rebound title locked. I used to think paying Deandre $10M per season was idiotic, but now I'm worried the Clippers are going to have to pay him max to keep him in a few years.

Silasie
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We must have the most athletic frontcourt in the NBA by far. Is there another duo that is close?

namzug
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No, I don't think so. Maybe a healthy Denver with Javale and Faried, but I think the overall size and athleticism is in our favor.

clipper*joe
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I have to give props to DJ for his massive rebound game against Minny. Like I've said, I've been more amazed by his rebound prowess all season than anything else. Well, also his ability to raise his FT % in crunch time. Those are the things I'll praise him for.

Oh, and he is living up to his contract now. Very Happy

namzug
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Wow!

Hopefully he maintains the same rate when its time for an extension. Have to figure he owes us for the first few years so maintaining something close to what he gets should be fair in my opinion. Maybe like a three year 36 mil contract?

He should realize what working with a guy like Doc has done for his career. In fact the only team that worries me about stealing him is a guy like Pop. The thoughts of a team just paying him tons can always happen too.

clipperboy24
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Yep his rebounding has been impressive, straight ben wallace style. It is amazing how well he has been shooting free throws in clutch situations.

slestack11
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I don't know if DeAndre is the defensive player of the year, but I think he's the best defensive player right now. He is so much better than he was in the beginning of the season. I really don't think there's a player in the league as imposing on defense than DeAndre right now...just in time for the playoffs.

clipper*joe
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I don't know, I think we saw what DJ can do when it counts. The version we saw in the Thunder series is the same DJ we've always had. Wes sucks.

letitbled
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Yeah lets just ignore what he did all year and against the Dubs. Dumb.

clipper*joe
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Well, lets just say that DJ excels playing against teams with no center. I didn't ignore it, I thought anyone with any semblance of a brain would know that outright. Guess I was wrong.

As far as what he did during the season, he was the best rebounder and he should be credited. But that is the regular season. In the playoffs, with pressure, against a team with big centers ( not most talented), it becomes a different story.

letitbled
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What are you talking about? The OKC series was rough but the zebras took him out of it with their BS whistles. He had great games against most teams during the year including OKC (same guys) and GS with Bogut.

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