DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 5)

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Clippersfan86
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Webster is indeed a perfect fit but he's in love with Washington and they are in love with him. I guess he really feels bonded to that team because him and Randy Whitman had an emotional, man to man talk which included crying in the locker room and he's grateful that Washington gave him another shot. In otherwords.. unless something goes terribly wrong in Washington, they are re-signing him.

tense2
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^Maybe, maybe not. We'll see how wise he is when he stops "crying".

Battlegun
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Is Martell really a better player than Caron? He might be a better 3-point shooter, but that's about it.

tense2
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Simple answer...Yes.

Clippersfan86
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Martell is better absolutely.

lobcityhawaii
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He's more athletic, better defender and driver also.

tense2
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^"Better Driver", didn't know that was a prerequisite for an NBA player, lol.

lobcityhawaii
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Lol. He can take his man off the dribble better. He has a quicker first step.

Greenmonk94
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caron is a better player then webster and also.. we gotta trade DJ for someone who is just cosistant.. doesnt need to be better.. just someone who will always bring themselves every game.. DJ has alot of incosnsistant games

tense2
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Caron WAS a better player...a long time ago. Sorry.

CP3Heliflopter
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Butler regressed so hard after leaving Dallas. Evil or Very Mad

tense2
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He regressed before that. His best days were in Washington.

CP3Heliflopter
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tense2 wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Butler regressed so hard after leaving Dallas. Evil or Very Mad

He regressed before that. His best days were in Washington.

Well we all know that we weren't getting a prime Butler but we thought he would still be a good role player.

After leaving Washington he regressed to being a good role player. After leaving Dallas he regressed to being an average role player.

tense2
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CP3Heliflopter wrote:
tense2 wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Butler regressed so hard after leaving Dallas. Evil or Very Mad

He regressed before that. His best days were in Washington.

Well we all know that we weren't getting a prime Butler but we thought he would still be a good role player.

After leaving Washington he regressed to being a good role player. After leaving Dallas he regressed to being an average role player.

Average role player, your being too kind. Smile

CP3Heliflopter
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Well calling him a scrub sounds a tad harsh lol.

tense2
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Scrub no, below average player at his respective position...yes.

Clippersfan86
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Caron would be classified as "below average" not scrub by most. DJ on the other hand....

tense2
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Know you dislike DJ as a player, but according to the advance matrix numbers that measure how a player ranks against his competitors, he's above to slightly above average.

Unfortunately they can't measure his heart or BBIQ though.

wink

lobcityhawaii
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Caron is a below average starting SF, but I don't think a below avg SF in the whole league. DJ is also is a below avg starting center, but not a below avg center overall.

smittywerb
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What killed Caron is that knee injury.

tense2
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lobcityhawaii wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Caron would be classified as "below average" not scrub by most. DJ on the other hand....

Caron is a below average starting SF, but I don't think a below avg SF in the whole league. DJ is also is a below avg starting center, but not a below avg center overall.

Wrong. sorry.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eca01.html

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/362-caron-butler

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/129-deandre-jordan

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Grillinnap
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Care to explain what the **** you just posted, tense? Oh, I forgot. I'm on your ignore list. Get a grip, son!

lobcityhawaii
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tense2 wrote:
lobcityhawaii wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Caron would be classified as "below average" not scrub by most. DJ on the other hand....

Caron is a below average starting SF, but I don't think a below avg SF in the whole league. DJ is also is a below avg starting center, but not a below avg center overall.

Wrong. sorry.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eca01.html

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/362-caron-butler

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/129-deandre-jordan

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Care to explain your analysis?

Nvm, I understand what you're trying to say. Looks like those numbers are showing that both are average at best at their positions compared to the whole league.

tense2
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^Not really. Look at all the numbers, particularly the last few years including WP, PER, WS/48.

david
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tense2 wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Caron would be classified as "below average" not scrub by most. DJ on the other hand....

Know you dislike DJ as a player, but according to the advance matrix numbers that measure how a player ranks against his competitors, he's above to slightly above average.

Unfortunately they can't measure his heart or BBIQ though.

wink

Yep- the ability is there, the talent and the physical attributes are there. But some of the instincts are not there yet, and performing under pressure- not good at all. If he would just learn to relax, and just play like it like it is a fun game, I'd bet he would do better.

lobcityhawaii
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DJ is above average and Caron is below average per those stats. I still feel DJ hurt the team more overall. His energy and basketball IQ is not there often.

pageC4
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lobcityhawaii wrote:
tense2 wrote:
^Not really. Look at all the numbers, particularly the last few years including WP, PER, WS/48.

DJ is above average and Caron is below average per those stats. I still feel DJ hurt the team more overall. His energy and basketball IQ is not there often.

yeah. I guess we can learn something out this, and Memphis can also attest for this as well with Rudy Gay. When a player becomes a free agent dont get into a bidding war because if you do and this player doesnt pan out you just committeed yourself to an enormous amount of money, and the contract may be impossible to move.

tense2
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pageC4 wrote:
lobcityhawaii wrote:
tense2 wrote:
^Not really. Look at all the numbers, particularly the last few years including WP, PER, WS/48.

DJ is above average and Caron is below average per those stats. I still feel DJ hurt the team more overall. His energy and basketball IQ is not there often.

yeah. I guess we can learn something out this, and Memphis can also attest for this as well with Rudy Gay. When a player becomes a free agent dont get into a bidding war because if you do and this player doesnt pan out you just committeed yourself to an enormous amount of money, and the contract may be impossible to move.

There's always a sucker out there. See Rudy Gay.

tense2
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lobcityhawaii wrote:
tense2 wrote:
^Not really. Look at all the numbers, particularly the last few years including WP, PER, WS/48.

DJ is above average and Caron is below average per those stats. I still feel DJ hurt the team more overall. His energy and basketball IQ is not there often.

Yep. See my post above.

CapsNClips
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^ Speaking of Toronto, that seems like a good place for DJ, they've already got an athletic SG & SF why not add to that? They could give us Jonas Velenciunis & Ross for DJ and 2nd round pick. Just spit Ballin' here

pageC4
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I think right now DJs value may be really low, but if somehow we could even trade him for two contracts that can be broken up even that would be a fiancial improvemtn

ekker3
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pageC4 wrote:
CapsNClips wrote:
^ Speaking of Toronto, that seems like a good place for DJ, they've already got an athletic SG & SF why not add to that? They could give us Jonas Velenciunis & Ross for DJ and 2nd round pick. Just spit Ballin' here

I think right now DJs value may be really low, but if somehow we could even trade him for two contracts that can be broken up even that would be a fiancial improvemtn

DJ's an athletic (borderline) 7 footer. there's a reason teams were after him and willing to spend $10mil a year for his services even though he hadnt proven anything. IMO, his value remains high.

valenciunas and ross is selling DJ low. VERY LOW.

Clippersfan86
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Ekker I disagree. Ross is an outstanding SF prospect. I'd honestly trade them straight up if cap fit.

ekker3
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do we want prospects though? we need to get past the first round.

cleepers
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I don't know about "teams" plural. I seem to remember it was only Golden State... same guys who thought Biedrins was worth 5 years at $9mil per.

Still... pretty hard to criticize their stupidity when we're the ones who matched.

#OlsheyLegacy

ekker3
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cleepers wrote:
ekker3 wrote:
DJ's an athletic (borderline) 7 footer. there's a reason teams were after him and willing to spend $10mil a year for his services even though he hadnt proven anything. IMO, his value remains high.

valenciunas and ross is selling DJ low. VERY LOW.

I don't know about "teams" plural. I seem to remember it was only Golden State... same guys who thought Biedrins was worth 5 years at $9mil per.

Still... pretty hard to criticize their stupidity when we're the ones who matched.

wasnt houston after him too?

let's make his dream a reality http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Rockets-notes-Clippers-Jor dan-wanted-to-be-a-1595403.php

hoopfanjd31
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ekker3 wrote:
cleepers wrote:
ekker3 wrote:
DJ's an athletic (borderline) 7 footer. there's a reason teams were after him and willing to spend $10mil a year for his services even though he hadnt proven anything. IMO, his value remains high.

valenciunas and ross is selling DJ low. VERY LOW.

I don't know about "teams" plural. I seem to remember it was only Golden State... same guys who thought Biedrins was worth 5 years at $9mil per.

Still... pretty hard to criticize their stupidity when we're the ones who matched.

wasnt houston after him too?

let's make his dream a reality http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Rockets-notes-Clippers-Jor dan-wanted-to-be-a-1595403.php

Asik>>DJ, so I don't see it happening.

cleepers
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That just says that he wanted to play there. I don't think they ever made overtures to him. Either way, yes please... watching the way Asik "beat the hack" brought a tear to my eye. That's how a man steps up come playoff time.

DJ's 22% FT's this playoffs was unspeakably pathetic even by his poor standards. Fans hit half-court shots more often than that while still clutching their beer.

CP3Heliflopter
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Umm Val is a much better prospect than DJ.... Homerism ftw.... He is miles better offensively, can shoot Fts and is starting to get it defensively. He just needs more experience and needs to bulk up. Talk to any Raptors fans about DJ for Val and Ross and they will point and laugh and this is the fanbase that thinks Rudy Gay was worth the max. DJ's value isn't much. His contract is a bad contract much like Mcgee's contract is a bad contract. In fact, I rather have Mcgee over DJ.

CP3Heliflopter
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tense2 wrote:
lobcityhawaii wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Caron would be classified as "below average" not scrub by most. DJ on the other hand....

Caron is a below average starting SF, but I don't think a below avg SF in the whole league. DJ is also is a below avg starting center, but not a below avg center overall.

Wrong. sorry.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eca01.html

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/362-caron-butler

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/129-deandre-jordan

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Too bad Dj had negative winshares in the playoffs.

Agent0
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DJ has been awful two playoffs in a row. He's shot under 50% FG both times and gone from an efficient one to a bad one, very disappointing.

Well the better shooter is a big deal as he's a super efficient player, but he's younger, more athletic and more capable defensively.

The Clippers only really have the MLE, similar to Washington, and he's a priority for them, so I'm not sure it's even realistic to get him. Washington would probably go up to the full MLE to keep him, and I'm not sure the Clippers are in the position to do that

Agent0
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You are very correct. Val is an improving defender who put up 13.5 / 9 / 1.9 / .618 TS% per 36 as a rookie and shoots 78.9% from the FT line. Oh, and he's 21 years old now. No team in their right mind trades a barely more effective player who can't play much in the 4th for a cheaper, much younger one.

It's like Utah asking to trade Al Jefferson for Blake Griffin and Eric Bledsoe, though not as bad, but best example I could get using the Clippers.

TheDude
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I bet they'd trade us Bargnani for DJ. Would you take a washed up euro for a washed up Houstonian? I probably would.

tense2
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Ah, so did some other "important" guys. Team effort.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2013.html

clips4life32
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I wonder what DJ is going to work on this summer. I hope this is a big kick in the butt for him. Someone or something needs too.

LAbreakers
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agree that it's up to the coach to use his players properly and to play them the appropriate amount of minutes w/rotations that maximize his team in combination w/each other as best serves the team's win/loss record, and... DJ's never gonna have a outside shot like Chandler, but he definitely can be every bit as good as him, at least for us, as.... not only does he lead the league in shooting percentage he is no slouch blocking shots or rebounding, not to mention he has the most affable personality in LA since Earvin, and has an infectious body language on and off the court which has made this team not only better, but more enjoyable to watch....

also was under the impression that DJ markedly improved his offensive game, and had no dropoff in his defensive gifts as well.... his FT shooting was atrocious and he did get owned by Gasol in the playoffs, and.... Vinny didn't give him his minutes, and obviously Iavaroni is not the big man for the job....

and any chickenshi.... comment is poppycock.... DJ is a legit NBA center who is still coming into his own.... yeah it woulda been nice to have Kaman's shooting to pair w/DJ's defense and intangibles, and.... as soon as we get rid of DJ we'll be wishing for exactly what he brings to the team....

if we can get fair value back from DJ and perhaps Bledsoe, and we can guarantee that we'll have a decent center and backup pg, then perhaps we do something.... until then, at least for myself, consider us pretty fortunate to have a quality backup pg and a legit NBA center.... neither of those guys is the problem.... just give them their minutes....

clipper*joe
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LAbreakers wrote:
agree that it's up to the coach to use his players properly and to play them the appropriate amount of minutes w/rotations that maximize his team in combination w/each other as best serves the team's win/loss record, and... DJ's never gonna have a outside shot like Chandler, but he definitely can be every bit as good as him, at least for us, as.... not only does he lead the league in shooting percentage he is no slouch blocking shots or rebounding, not to mention he has the most affable personality in LA since Earvin, and has an infectious body language on and off the court which has made this team not only better, but more enjoyable to watch....

Reminds me of a coversation I heard on TNT:

  • "DJ leads the league in FG % at 63%. "

  • "but all he does us dunk!"

  • " So he only makes 63% of his dunks?!"

  • "nevermind what I said"

Anyway, I could care less about DJ and his personality. I don't find him funny, I don't find him amusing, and suely don't think he makes the Clippers watchable. He's the only dark spot for me.

Quote:
also was under the impression that DJ markedly improved his offensive game, and had no dropoff in his defensive gifts as well.... his FT shooting was atrocious and he did get owned by Gasol in the playoffs, and.... Vinny didn't give him his minutes, and obviously Iavaroni is not the big man for the job....

DJ has a taken a step forward in being able to get a semi hook shot but honestly think 75% of the time, he loses the ball once he puts the ball down. What defensive gifts does DJ have? weakside blocks on guys 6' 2" or under? Inability to box out? Inability to play man on man in the post?

I'd say his best gift is his smile but even then, it pisses me off more when i see that stupid grin.

Quote:

and any chickenshi.... comment is poppycock.... DJ is a legit NBA center who is still coming into his own.... yeah it woulda been nice to have Kaman's shooting to pair w/DJ's defense and intangibles, and.... as soon as we get rid of DJ we'll be wishing for exactly what he brings to the team....

I guarantee you that I won't be wishing that we had DJ back. I'd bet my Clippers fandom on it.

sz123456
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^^Yeah DJ reminds me of Tyrus Thomas, and a little bit Wes Johnson. Terrific leaping ability, but not really a basketball player. Also terrible work ethic and clearly just enjoying the ride instead of taking his profession seriously. Put him on another team and he'll have a 10 game stretch of him trying really hard to prove everyone wrong, averaging 10 and 8, then reverting back to his original numbers.

divinebeast
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LAbreakers wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Scott just used them properly. Since DJ doesn't do anything well, I doubt any coach could miraculously turn DJ into anything close to Chandler.

A good coach puts the right players in situations to win, he doesn't make them.

Bottom line, only one of these guys improved their game while the other actually got worse.

don't expect any coach to make chicken salad out of chickenshi....

DJ's never gonna have a outside shot like Chandler, but he definitely can be every bit as good as him, at least for us, as.... not only does he lead the league in shooting percentage he is no slouch blocking shots or rebounding, not to mention he has the most affable personality in LA since Earvin, and has an infectious body language on and off the court which has made this team not only better, but more enjoyable to watch....

Averaged 6 rebounds in the playoffs

He's horrible.

CP3Heliflopter
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My sentiments exactly clipper joe. 5 years in this league and his Ft shooting still sucks, his defense is still shaky and he still hasn't learned how to box out properly. The only thing he has really improved on is his offense but he is turnover prone and his offense can be completely negated by hacking him and watching him airball 2 free throws. This guy thinks he is a star when he is not even an average Center.

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