DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 6)

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diagoro
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I like DJs mentality, but he's a jumping jack and nothing more. Take away his legs and what do you have? He's also not a thinking or instinctive player on offense. Look at his post moves. He doesn't take what's given or create space, he decides which way to go and forces the shot. His reach allows a few shots to go in....just.

I was hoping he would improve, but he became a liability the more he regressed. He needs a complete makeover of moves and confidence. Hopefully with someone else, as he was the primary weakness this playoffs.

Clipperfn4lf
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DJ was my favorite player, even got his jersey, but in the playoffs he showed what a god damn ***** he truly is. SHIP HIM OFF!

Clippersfan86
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No offense but how can you like his mentality? Quite frankly he's the biggest douche on the team from what I've seen. Doesn't take sh** seriously, poor work ethic. Supposedly the most drama and has had conflicts with teammates+coaches on multiple occasions according to reports. If anything his mentality is exactly his problem.

tha_situation
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Credit to you for being objective.

toohipcliptoslip
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Gortat $7.7 mil? Beasley $6 mill/yr for 2 yrs but early termination clause 2014. So one year.

DJ $10 mill forever. We can't afford Bledsoe unless we dump a lot of salary. Get Tony Allen

Because of Beasley's latest run in with the law they'd love to dump him. Put up with him for one year then dump him. Alternatively he like Zbo MAY clean up his act.

We get Gortat for two pieces we don't need. If his foot is OK

This is the deal to make.

tense2
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Stay the f@#k away from Beasley. Please.

sfernald
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tense2 wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Gortat $7.7 mil? Beasley $6 mill/yr for 2 yrs but early termination clause 2014. So one year.

DJ $10 mill forever. We can't afford Bledsoe unless we dump a lot of salary. Get Tony Allen

Because of Beasley's latest run in with the law they'd love to dump him. Put up with him for one year then dump him. Alternatively he like Zbo MAY clean up his act.

We get Gortat for two pieces we don't need. If his foot is OK

This is the deal to make.

Stay the f@#k away from Beasley. Please.

One year of Beasley is tolerable if we can get Gortat. Maybe Paul can salvage him. Paul's son and Beasley are probably at the same maturity level.

tense2
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^I Think we can get Gortat without having to take a poison pill while we're at it.Smile

CP3Heliflopter
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Hopefully. Gortat wants to leave and the Suns franchise has been making a lot of stupid moves. DJ for Gortat straight up! Not sure if that works.

If we get Beasley I am not sure if I want to absord that contract. Beasley is a complete headcase and apparently he is under investigation for sexual assault.

cleepers
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I don't like Beasley either, but I think I'd take the 1-year risk over another year of Butler. If necessary to get Gortat for DJ, of course.

Then again, if Stan's gonna coach, two hotheads like that could be bad... very bad.

tense2
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If Beasley comes here Cleepers, your head will exploded from how bad he is and I don't want to see that happen mate.

toohipcliptoslip
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Remember I said

Bench Beasley. Permanantly

For one year he's a DNP. Get rid of him at the end of next year because of the early termination. I don't care if he even dresses. He can be permanently on the disabled list. We get Gortat and rid of DJ and eat it for one year. Who knows. If he realiozes he won't play maybe he'll behave (I doubt it). I can't see any other way to get Gortat. Why would they let him go? Beasley is their worst problem especially with the sexual assault charges pending.

tense2
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Could mean we then can't sign an important roll player due to cap constrains, because we just wasted $$ on a guy who sits behind the bench in a tie and suit. Plus he's owed 12+ mil for 2 more years. Ugh.

toohipcliptoslip
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tense2 wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Remember I said Bench Beasley. For one year he's a DNP. Get rid of him at the end of next year because of the early termination. I don't care if he even dresses. He can be permanently on the disabled list. We get Gortat and rid of DJ and eat it for one year. Who knows. If he realiozes he won't play maybe he'll behave (I doubt it)

Could mean we then can't sign an important roll player due to cap constrains, because we just wasted $ on a guy who sits behind the bench in a tie and suit. Ugh.

We have only to keep him next yr. Early termination clause. Gortat + Beasley = ~$14Mill. DJ+ Bledsoe = ~ $11mill. Plus We'll have to pay through the nose to keen EB. We save ~$3 mill in cap room but we eat it one year.

tense2
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
tense2 wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Remember I said Bench Beasley. For one year he's a DNP. Get rid of him at the end of next year because of the early termination. I don't care if he even dresses. He can be permanently on the disabled list. We get Gortat and rid of DJ and eat it for one year. Who knows. If he realiozes he won't play maybe he'll behave (I doubt it)

Could mean we then can't sign an important roll player due to cap constrains, because we just wasted $ on a guy who sits behind the bench in a tie and suit. Ugh.

We have only to keep him next yr. Early termination clause. Gortat + Beasley = ~$14Mill. DJ+ Bledsoe = ~ $11mill. Plus We'll have to pay through the nose to keen EB. We save ~$3 mill in cap room but we eat it one year.

Don't think he has an ETC, but a partially guaranteed contract for 2014/15. Still your going to "waste" 6 mil next year on NO productively. Ugh again.

Throw in Wesley Johnston instead.

http://storytellerscontracts.com

toohipcliptoslip
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From what i gather we can get rid of him for $9 mill total. When you factor in DJ's $10 mill and subtract it's a wash. One year won't kill us in tax. Victories are worth $$$$. I'd take the Ghost of Christmas past to get rid of DJ and I'm sure PHX's priority is dumping Beasley. Remember Gortat would have been a big plus against Memphis. If I were PHX I'd keep Gortat. I don't care if he's happy or not. His happiness isn't my concern.

tense2
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All I can say then is I'm glad you just a fan, with that kind of reasoning. Smile

cleepers
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
tense2 wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Remember I said Bench Beasley. For one year he's a DNP. Get rid of him at the end of next year because of the early termination. I don't care if he even dresses. He can be permanently on the disabled list. We get Gortat and rid of DJ and eat it for one year. Who knows. If he realiozes he won't play maybe he'll behave (I doubt it)

Could mean we then can't sign an important roll player due to cap constrains, because we just wasted $ on a guy who sits behind the bench in a tie and suit. Ugh.

We have only to keep him next yr. Early termination clause. Gortat + Beasley = ~$14Mill. DJ+ Bledsoe = ~ $11mill. Plus We'll have to pay through the nose to keen EB. We save ~$3 mill in cap room but we eat it one year.

Actually, DJ + Bled = $13,600,000 and Gortat + Beasley = $13,700,000.

We'd gain no cap space.

And I believe tense is correct that his final year is partially-guaranteed, not a team option... we'd be on the hook for a further $3,000,000 minimum.

ClipsGForce
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I know DJ have been slacking but I will give him a benefit of doubt. Until he's being taught by a great post player coach which will teach him some fundamental and being an anchor on defense, I am willing to give him one more chance. Remember who's teaching DJ post moves, Howard Eisley (who's really a point guard). Hire the Dream or Kareem to learn some defense.

The_Blake_Show
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Gortat and Beasley for DJ and Bledsoe? Pass.

I prefer Clippers trade DJ and Bledsoe for Vucevic and Turkoglu who is coming off the books in a year thus releasing $12,000,000 in cap space for 2014 while Vecevic will only be getting $3,000,000

ClipsGForce
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Pass that one too. There must be a lot better offer than Orl.

sz123456
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Doesn't have to be Beasley. Shannon Brown could also be got, and not a bad replacement for Bled.

The_Blake_Show
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ClipsGForce wrote:
The_Blake_Show wrote:
Gortat and Beasley for DJ and Bledsoe? Pass.

I prefer Clippers trade DJ and Bledsoe for Vucevic and Turkoglu who is coming off the books in a year thus releasing $12,000,000 in cap space for 2014 while Vecevic will only be getting $3,000,000

Pass that one too. There must be a lot better offer than Orl.

There will be. The Clippers just have to be smart about it.

tense2
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The tandem you want from PHX is Gorat and Dudley, just not sure how that can be achieve with the pieces we have to trade. Maybe DJ + Green + 1st round pick. Don't know.

The_Blake_Show
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Not bad but Bledsoe has to be included in any deal because Bledsoe will definitely be getting paid after the end of next season

tense2
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The_Blake_Show wrote:
tense2 wrote:
The tandem you want from PHX is Gorat and Dudley, just not sure how that can be achieve with the pieces we have to trade. Maybe DJ + Green + 1st round pick. Don't know.

Not bad but Bledsoe has to be included in any deal because Bledsoe will definitely be getting paid after the end of next season

So you could deal him in a separate trade or S&T him next year.

pageC4
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both are amazing especially considering their age. Their only

Problem is the amount of money they are being paid. I remember the KG for DJ/Bledsoe trade i was shocked at how much KG was gettin paid

pageC4
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The_Blake_Show wrote:
tense2 wrote:
The tandem you want from PHX is Gorat and Dudley, just not sure how that can be achieve with the pieces we have to trade. Maybe DJ + Green + 1st round pick. Don't know.

Not bad but Bledsoe has to be included in any deal because Bledsoe will definitely be getting paid after the end of next season

hes going to be something special. Lets just hope we get adequate return for him

toohipcliptoslip
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To belabor the point, DJ next 2 yrs $22 mill

Assume we re sign Gortat, $14 mill for 2 yrs

Beasley is $6.2 mill next yr, Non guaranteed 2 yrs spend $6.2

I may be misunderstanding Non Guaranteed Contracts but

DJ to PHX we lose $22 mill over 2 yrs

Gortat + Beasley $21 mill we pay over 2 yrs. What we get is a servicable center for $ 21 mill instead of $22

We give up Bledsoe's salary. We eat Beasley's salary for one year. Nobody in their right mind wants DJ for $22 Mill. He's worth $12 at most. We have to make a team want to eat $10 mill over 2 years. Nobody in their right mind wants Beasley. There isn't enough Prozac. A deal between the insane

This assumes that I've got Non guaranteed contracts right., Remember DJ will be impossible to dump.

BTW Bledsoe ain't Nate Robinson.

BTW Tense I bet you my first born child. I got fixed lol

toohipcliptoslip
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ps

Bledsoe will go for $5 minimum. Probably $7 -$8 we dump him but we need a cheap PG

cleepers
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Gortat only has one more year... at $7.7 million, then he'll probably need a raise. Beasley is guaranteed next year at $6 million, then the year after he's guaranteed $3 million.

So basically, if you want to just sit Beasley, we'd be paying $16.7 million PLUS whatever we'd give Gortat the second year and beyond... just to get rid of DJ's $22 million.

toohipcliptoslip
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cleepers wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
To belabor the point, DJ next 2 yrs $22 mill

Assume we re sign Gortat, $14 mill for 2 yrs

Beasley is $6.2 mill next yr, Non guaranteed 2 yrs spend $6.2

I may be misunderstanding Non Guaranteed Contracts but

DJ to PHX we lose $22 mill over 2 yrs

Gortat + Beasley $21 mill we pay over 2 yrs. What we get is a servicable center for $ 21 mill instead of $22

Gortat only has one more year... at $7.7 million, then he'll probably need a raise. Beasley is guaranteed next year at $6 million, then the year after he's guaranteed $3 million.

So basically, we'd be paying $16.7 million PLUS whatever we'd give Gortat the second year and beyond.

$9mill to Beasley, $16 mill Gortat = $25 mill. Is it worth $3 mill? Don't we still dump Beasley 2014-15? Remember Gortat at $7.7 + is worth a lot more than DJ at $10+

Big question is who really wants DJ? One scenario.

Bledsoe will be a RFA in 2014-15. Isn't his qualifying bid $3+mill. Most teams will be trading for Bledsoe and tolerating DJ

cleepers
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^ You're assuming Gortat will still only get $7.7 million p/year for his next contract... it'll likely be more. He only has 1 year left on his deal.

toohipcliptoslip
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I surrender

CLIPSET
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Why in the world would Orlando trade away a 22 year old 7 footer who's going to average 20+ and 15 rebs and is under contract for the next 3 years while earning 10 times less than DJ??

Just as absurd as Griffin to the Celtics.

CapsNClips
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20+pts & 15reb??? I don't know about that, maybe 15 & 13 at best.

CP3Heliflopter
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20/15? No way! I can see him averaging 15/13 though which makes him 10x better than DJ.

CapsNClips
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CP3Heliflopter wrote:
CLIPSET wrote:
Why in the world would Orlando trade away a 22 year old 7 footer who's going to average 20+ and 15 rebs and is under contract for the next 3 years while earning 10 times less than DJ??

Just as absurd as Griffin to the Celtics.

20/15? No way! I can see him averaging 15/13 though which makes him 10x better than DJ.

Jinx you owe me a soda.

CLIPSET
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CP3Heliflopter wrote:
CLIPSET wrote:
Why in the world would Orlando trade away a 22 year old 7 footer who's going to average 20+ and 15 rebs and is under contract for the next 3 years while earning 10 times less than DJ??

Just as absurd as Griffin to the Celtics.

20/15? No way! I can see him averaging 15/13 though which makes him 10x better than DJ.

He's at 13/12 right now. Even if he doesn't get to 20 pts, he's definitely in the 17-20 pt range and he can definitely avg 15 rbs in a couple years. In the right system he can do it.

tense2
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Thank you. Razz

Jerediscool
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Chauncey at Vets min... he owes us after this year

sfernald
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Believe it or not, I'm sure DJ still has some value out there. Sure, we are down on him because of that playoffs, but you don't judge a player on one series alone. He is only 24 and has only played five years in the league. He's not what you would call a vet by any stretch and he's not done improving yet. Someone desires him out there. According to NBA.com, his PER was #106 in the league. Let me tell you, that is higher than Ginobili, Joe Johnson and Bogut to name just a couple. And he never....

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gman
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Dj needs to spend time with blakes gym rat side. allday. everyday. go to hakim. beg him. watch videos. go to summer big man boot camp. hit the weighroom and go to learn to box out camp.

he can do it. he gots lots of time

ClipsGForce
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I would hold on DJ for one more year. He's not a lost cause. He's only 24 and he have been improving since coming to the league. I just think we need to find him a quality big men coach that'll teach him all the fundamental. Vinny did not do a good developing DJ or even give him a shot during the regular season. He should have let him make his mistake and learn from it.

diagoro
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Sadly Jordan's biggest (positive) contribution this year may be the 'dunk face' and a few highlights.

diagoro
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
diagoro wrote:
I like DJs mentality, but he's a jumping jack and nothing more. Take away his legs and what do you have? He's also not a thinking or instinctive player on offense. Look at his post moves. He doesn't take what's given or create space, he decides which way to go and forces the shot. His reach allows a few shots to go in....just.

I was hoping he would improve, but he became a liability the more he regressed. He needs a complete makeover of moves and confidence. Hopefully with someone else, as he was the primary weakness this playoffs.

No offense but how can you like his mentality? Quite frankly he's the biggest douche on the team from what I've seen. Doesn't take sh** seriously, poor work ethic. Supposedly the most drama and has had conflicts with teammates+coaches on multiple occasions according to reports. If anything his mentality is exactly his problem.

Sorry for the late reply.....I always liked Jordan's positivity, but can see where it might also be seen as a lack of seriousness or determination. I haven't heard any rumours about character flaws or drama. Only that there was great chemistry on this team.

The_Blake_Show
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That's what I been saying for a while...

DJ is still young with a lot of upside. NBA players peak at 27 years old anyways. I'm not saying DJ will be a beast or the best center in the world but if DJ could contribute double digit points, double digit rebounds, and be a defensive anchor than the Clippers should be satisfied.

Tyson Chandler did not show any signs of improvement until his 6th year and for the last four years Tyson Chandler has been a top five center. Just a solid center. DJ can arguably can be similar to Tyson Chandler.

The biggest reason why people are quick to get rid of DJ is because DJ's contribution does not match the salary. I blame VDN in part but that can very well be a plus though. Why? Because the Clippers can offer DJ less money after current contract and hopefully by this time DJ is actually showing some signs of being a solid center. You never know. With that being said, if the Clippers have a chance of landing Vucevic or Cousins in the process the Clippers shouldn't think twice.

diagoro
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I didn't consider his salary during the playoffs....only the near complete lack of production. I'm guessing he came close to averaging more fouls than points or rebounds. The rebound part is especially troubling. His reach alone so equal 3-5 nightly. He's just not smart enough of a player to utilize his gifts over his faults.

Clippersfan86
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Last player to average 20/15 was Wilt or Russell. Love and Dwight got close. Vujevic is a beast but not THAT good.

CapsNClips
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Blake should take on that challenge next season, although I'd rather him get 25&12 and maybe an MVP to go along with it. Totally doable

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