DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 8)

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CP3Heliflopter
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I feel like DJ is a loss cause at this point. I don't think any coach will help him. He is just one of those guys who is lazy, unmotivated and has low bball iq. A poor man's Javale Mcgee. However, I still think he has some value. Some franchise might be dumb enough to take him.

I agree with the notion that we need a hard assed coach who preaches defense. Our defense was atrocious but we also need a legit Center as well. I still can't believe how badly DJ played in the playoffs. He is just so worthless on D. Like I said before glorified dunker.

In fact, I think that getting a quality C might be a bigger priority than a quality coach. That is how ineffective DJ is.

Priorities

1) Get a real C.

2) Get a hard assed, defensive minded coach. Get a good offensive minded assistant coach.

3) Get a wing player that can shoot and play defense.

4) More shooters.

cleepers
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I agree, and I think the biggest problem with replacing the coach is that DJ will be given "one last chance" to live up to all that "potential".

If Vinny had been given another year, maybe DJ wouldn't have.

Dude better step the f*ck up next season, or he'll find himself buried in Charlotte for the rest of his career.

CapsNClips
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Shouldn't there be a "Lack Of" somewhere in the title of this thread?

ArtMaggot
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So happy to see DJ dunking on Charissa Thompson.

Clippersfan86
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Did anybody know DJ's real first name is Hyland? LMAO so random..

Voyeur
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I think what makes so many of us mad is we look at DJ and we don't understand how he can be dominated by other centers. He should be a dominant defensive player. I can't help but wonder if he could benefit from a Ewing or a dominant defensive center who could block shots but also play solid defense. Not even talking about offense.

I'm already on board that we need to get rid of him, but he would be so much more effective if he was more disciplined on D and hitting more than 60% of his free throws.

ClipperDB
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I gave up on dj, too. I think he has had plenty of coaching (Kim Hughes, Thate - the shooting coach that also worked w/ BG). DJ is not disciplined or mature, as he lets "other" stuff frustrate him (getting taken out of games, lack of offensive touches, complaining about a foul, etc). He loses focus and no amount of coaching will help him.

ArtMaggot
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toohipcliptoslip
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Who ever it was said and I want to steal this "success is obtained at the boundary of your comfort zone" DJ's comfort zone is a delusion of adequacy.

"Art is created when the result of your endievor (sp) surpasses the limit of your craft" Miles Davis. Do MJ or Greg Lougains come to mind? You first have to master your craft. Look at Duncan's footwork.

"Don't worry, be happy" Bobby McFerrin, DJ's motto BTW Bobby can be happy because both his parents were opera singers and his technique is superhuman.

As far as DJ you can't make a chicken from chicken ****. (Thanks Joe)

toohipcliptoslip
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This is easier said than done. I'd love to have a video of Sarah Palin doing Glen Rice. Doesn't mean I'll get it. Have you seen what Sarah does with a big hard gun in her hand?

There is a nasty cap now and tax ain't a joke. While I'm willing to go over the cap this ia bit expensive.

Pure shooters can be cheap but getting rid of Butler and getting a young SF will be 4+ difficult. How long does Rudy Gay have on his contract? Twisted Evil

Clippers_FTW
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
I feel like DJ is a loss cause at this point. I don't think any coach will help him. He is just one of those guys who is lazy, unmotivated and has low bball iq. A poor man's Javale Mcgee. However, I still think he has some value. Some franchise might be dumb enough to take him.

I agree with the notion that we need a hard assed coach who preaches defense. Our defense was atrocious but we also need a legit Center as well. I still can't believe how badly DJ played in the playoffs. He is just so worthless on D. Like I said before glorified dunker.

In fact, I think that getting a quality C might be a bigger priority than a quality coach. That is how ineffective DJ is.

Priorities

1) Get a real C.

2) Get a hard assed, defensive minded coach. Get a good offensive minded assistant coach.

3) Get a wing player that can shoot and play defense.

4) More shooters.

This is easier said than done. I'd love to have a video of Sarah Palin doing Glen Rice. Doesn't mean I'll get it. Have you seen what Sarah does with a big hard gun in her hand?

There is a nasty cap now and tax ain't a joke. While I'm willing to go over the cap this ia bit expensive.

Pure shooters can be cheap but getting rid of Butler and getting a young SF will be 4+ difficult. How long does Rudy Gay have on his contract? Twisted Evil

Lamar Odom coming off the books and Caron + Bledsoe is more than enough for a top tier SF.... Iguodala Smile

CP3Heliflopter
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^I would sign Lamar to a vet min deal. He is desperate to stay in LA so he would do it. He sucks offensively but he is a great defender still and maybe there is a very slim chance he gets back some of his offense.

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
I feel like DJ is a loss cause at this point. I don't think any coach will help him. He is just one of those guys who is lazy, unmotivated and has low bball iq. A poor man's Javale Mcgee. However, I still think he has some value. Some franchise might be dumb enough to take him.

I agree with the notion that we need a hard assed coach who preaches defense. Our defense was atrocious but we also need a legit Center as well. I still can't believe how badly DJ played in the playoffs. He is just so worthless on D. Like I said before glorified dunker.

In fact, I think that getting a quality C might be a bigger priority than a quality coach. That is how ineffective DJ is.

Priorities

1) Get a real C.

2) Get a hard assed, defensive minded coach. Get a good offensive minded assistant coach.

3) Get a wing player that can shoot and play defense.

4) More shooters.

This is easier said than done. I'd love to have a video of Sarah Palin doing Glen Rice. Doesn't mean I'll get it. Have you seen what Sarah does with a big hard gun in her hand?

There is a nasty cap now and tax ain't a joke. While I'm willing to go over the cap this ia bit expensive.

Pure shooters can be cheap but getting rid of Butler and getting a young SF will be 4+ difficult. How long does Rudy Gay have on his contract? Twisted Evil

Yep it will be extremely difficult. Good luck to our FO. If they can manage to pull all that off then we will be in a very good spot. Doubt they can though.

toohipcliptoslip
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We have been salivating over AI for years like a Pavlov Pooch. He now has a ~ $15 mill contract.

Butler $8 mill plus one year left, Odom $8 mill plus and Bledsoe are coming off the books true. If we use Wayans as a back up PG. OK Bledsoe needs to go anyway. His qualifying offer is ? $3.6 mill or so. CP3 is going for Max. Forget taking less money. I'm sure it's ego. Most expensive MF on the block. Not really the most but you get the idea.

Don't forget Barnes wants and deserves more $$$

What does this all mean Beats the f*ck outta me.

If we do the Lopez trade (Please ghost of George Mikan) We'll eat cap space. EJ has a $14 mill contract and his health is suspect.

I'd try to eat Caron's contract or trade him. He's servicable and expiring contract. Trade DJ and Bledsoe for a can of sardines and mustard and sign Al Jefferson. Same price as A Igudala. I'd rather start Barnes. If CBillups retires, Willie "Guns" Green is a viable starter MFing cheap. Remember he started during our winning streak. . Remember he was the #1 bingo shooter in the NBA. Odom was a monster rebounder and is worth maybe $2 mill. At that price he's a keeper.

Jefferson $15 mill ?? Kaman. Lopez if we could dump EJ

BG Big dollars, don't remember. Brand ~$3 mill, Odom. Cheap

Barnes $3 mill and ? maybe Butler. Eat Butler's contract for a year

Green/ Jamal ?? $3.5 mill, need a swing man shooter.

CP3 big dollars Wayans. Cheap

CP3Heliflopter
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I just wonder if there is any chance we could get Gortat. He is not happy in Phoenix. Probably has to be a multi-team trade since the Suns don't need a PG.

Clippers_FTW
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I feel like I was on a bench reading a newspaper and you drove by really fast and splashed some gutter water on me LOL

tense2
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The best deal for the Clippers is IF we could get both Gorat and Dudley. Very Happy

toohipcliptoslip
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tense2 wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
I just wonder if there is any chance we could get Gortat. He is not happy in Phoenix. Probably has to be a multi-team trade since the Suns don't need a PG.

The best deal for the Clippers is IF we could get both Gorat and Dudley. Very Happy

For whom?

Nobody is thinking like a GM from another team. we are always thinking of what is best for us. Reverse roles

tense2
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
tense2 wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
I just wonder if there is any chance we could get Gortat. He is not happy in Phoenix. Probably has to be a multi-team trade since the Suns don't need a PG.

The best deal for the Clippers is IF we could get both Gorat and Dudley. Very Happy

For whom?

Nobody is thinking like a GM from another team. we are always thinking of what is best for us. Reverse roles

Maybe DJ, green and our 1st round pick.

clipperboy24
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makes sense for both teams. Phoenix could use DJ and Gortat is over playing there. 1st round pick could be pretty solid as well

ArtMaggot
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Working on those free throws...

ClipperDB
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maybe he can catch better using a lacrosse stick than using his hands...

ClipperDB
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http://clippers.topbuzz.com/modules/PNp ... DJ05_1.jpg

maybe if he stood straight his free throws would go straight. Just a thought....

tha_situation
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I can't believe that there are some on this board who still have hope for DJ. IT'S BEEN 5 FREAKING YEARS!!!! He needs a special "box out specialist" coach???? Are you freaking kidding me????????? It's some type of magic or lost skill???? To freaking box out???

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me for 5 freaking years, then WTF?????????

tha_situation
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You think he can box out that kid? Maybe if he used both sticks.

ClipsGForce
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I am in the camp for not trading DJ. Do you know how many teams will salivate for DJ skills.

Clippersfan86
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The more time that passes the more open I am to giving him another year to prove himself. As annoying as he is.. Chandler didn't figure it out till year 7 or 8. Maybe with a great coach DJ will step up. My biggest concern is that come playoff time he becomes a big fat zero. Regular season was decent.

lobcityhawaii
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I'm willing to give him another year also. But I still can't see him being a factor in the 4th quarter of playoff games because of his free throw shooting. Other aspects might get better, but his free throws IMO will be still terrible, around 50% at best. Chandler now has great basketball IQ. I don't know if DJ ever will.

Clippersfan86
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http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/insider-blog

Will DJ ever focus on basketball? Seriously for somebody as humiliated as he's been the last two years in the playoffs...I'd be motivated as hell putting every waking moment into basketball and bulking up pretty much. Yet every summer we see DJ fu**ing around on comedy shows, doing random **** like this... or working on IRRELEVANT aspects of his game like post moves.

Hooligans
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I heard Deandre went out for dinner last night. What a jerk! He should be playing basketball AT LEAST 23 hours every day. There simply isn't time for eating or sleeping.

Good thing our God Blake is a gym rat and is always in the gym working out.

Clippersfan86
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Not saying the guy can't do ANYTHING but I feel like he should spend MORE time working on his game, less on trying to be a comedian.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Hate me all you want everyone, but DJ's my favorite Clipper. I just think he's a horrible compliment to Blake. It's all well n' good to see the athletic plays that nobody else can make. But honestly, as a tandem they can't make crunch time baskets........OR STOPS! This team will NEVER take the next step until those 2 are broken up. I'll still root for DJ on another team, but that's where he should be.........another team. I think he'd flourish in Portland

LuvMeSumMEE
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I think you have to get something for him now before the other teams start looking past his athletic ability

Hooligans
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Hooligans wrote:
I heard Deandre went out for dinner last night. What a jerk! He should be playing basketball AT LEAST 23 hours every single day. There simply isn't time for eating or sleeping.

Good thing our God Blake is gym rat and is always in the gym working out.

Not saying the guy can't do ANYTHING but I feel like he should spend MORE time working on his game, less on trying to be a comedian.

He most definitely should. But these videos aren't indicative of what players are doing in the offseason, or ever for that matter.

What DJ does for half a day, doesn't mean he isn't trying to improve his game while he isn't being filmed. Every player is doing something other than basketball in the offseason, some just happen to be better than others.

Although.... I do question whether or not he has the mental capacity to become a consistent player. I'm hoping badly that a new coach will be able to max out his talent so I can stop looking like an idiot defending him in every post.

Clippersfan86
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Not just this video. DJ's constantly posting pics and videos of him doing stuff 16 year old boys spend time doing. He needs to take his profession more seriously from what I can see. I guarantee you Blake Griffin is spending a majority of his days in the gym, 6-7 days a week already.

ClipperDB
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I agree 100%. It is DJ's mindset. He is not a "winner" and not a "professional" and not someone who is trying their hardest to get better.

Hooligans
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You know this because of your personal relationship with DJ, or youtube videos?

Clippersfan86
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Hooligans wrote:
ClipperDB wrote:
I agree 100%. It is DJ's mindset. He is not a "winner" and not a "professional" and not someone who is trying their hardest to get better.

You know this because of your personal relationship with DJ, or youtube videos?

Not that it's any proof for RIGHT now but scouts in college already labeled him a slacker. Called out his work ethic and desire to improve. It's exactly the reason he fell from lottery prospect to 2nd round actually.

Agent0
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From a second round pick to $10M requires some work ethic and improvement. It's really sad to see people who watched DJ since day one say he has poor work ethic or doesn't desire to improve. It's not even possible to believe that when you compare the abilities of rookie DJ to now.

Yes, he still can't shoot FT's, but was Ben Wallace lazy because he couldn't shoot FT's? And Ben Wallace wasn't even developing post moves in the off-season, so what was he doing? He shot 33.6% from the FT line in his 5th season. His career high was 49% in 03-04 at 29, then his FT% decreased three straight seasons after that. People just assume that for everyone it's just a case of trying harder. Some people really do suck at some things despite trying.

Clippersfan86
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DJ hasn't improved really at all. For 5 years... it's laughably average. 2010-2011 DJ>>>>>>>>>This DJ. His floor game has improved a little bit, that's about it. Okay so he's improved his hook shot from non existent to atrocious.. should we celebrate? Rebounding and shotblocking rates down. Defensive impact down.

Hooligans
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That may be the case, I just think that basing his worth ethic off videos of him playing lacrosse or hanging out in Venice Beach, aren't enough to tell me he isn't serious about improving.

ClipperDB
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Whichever the problem - either he doesn't try hard or he doesn't have the mental make-up necessary to succeed - I hope is gets traded. Ben Wallace brought something to his team, what does DJ bring to Clips (except he can jump real high).

Agent0
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He shot 56.7% on hook shots this season compared to 40.9% with fewer attempts the previous year. That's not atrocious, that's very good. He went from terrible to good, he's a guy who needs to work on ball protection and offensive awareness to continue to develop as a post option.

His rebound% at 22.4% is similar to his career average of 22.6%. One thing that generally doesn't change much and usually caries over from college is rebounding. Year to year fluctuation happens, but he's been the same rebounder. You don't really ask players to improve rebound rate unless they are bad rebounders to start out with. Lower turnover %, lower foul rate, 3 pts/36 higher than his scoring rate from his first 4 seasons.

His defense didn't get worse, he fouls less, he doesn't jump all over the place like he used to last year, the difference is that the expectations got higher. His defensive impact is similar, inconsistent, but generally adequate except for against certain matchups.

You're dodging the point. I'm not asking who's a higher impact or better player. The question is do we determine DJ's work ethic by things like how high his FT% is or isn't, and if we use such a standard, what happens when we use that on everyone?

Defensive IQ isn't something you can work on in the off-season as much as it happens in training camp and practice and from coaching. Man to man defense, maybe, but how do you call up the guys that kill you to work on that?

Ben Wallace basically peaked in production as a rookie. He was a high defensive impact player from day 1, but not everyone is willing to play <40% FT shooting a lot of minutes. The changes from his second year (rookie year minutes weren't enough to take anything from):

-increased rebound percentage, then it fluctuated based on teammates

-block percentage fluctuated like it does for all big men

-decreased foul rate

-increase FT shooting to 40% range, then back down, then up, then down

-scored more one year because he took a lot more shots than he should ever take

-did a little more and just increased turnover percentage without offensive return, but he was a low turnover guy anyways, so it was okay

If Ben Wallace wasn't a defensive beast at the onset, you could say he never improved outside of things that DJ also improved in such as lower foul rate, and DJ actually improved in turnover rate and offensive ability. Difference is that from the onset, Wallace was a defensive monster.

Cliptonyte
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Anyone that says that DJ hasn't improved, has no idea what they are talking about. He's not worth his contract, but he's worked hard since he came into the league and has shown a lot of improvement. Yeah, he's moody and sensitive and loses focus at times, especially when they don't get him involved early. DJ had improved his free throws to 53%, until they tinkered with his shot. His footwork in the post has improved leaps and bounds and he's developed a very nice jump hook with either hand and he finishes extremely well around the basket. The team went to him early in the season and he was nearly unstoppable, but they just stopped going to him in the post. He's an excellent offensive rebounder, but needs to improve his rebounding on the defensive end. Also, his defense is fine, until he plays in a scheme where people are constantly switching off defenders, even for no reason. DJ would be best in a straight up man or zone defense. He is also a capable shot blocker and intimidates shots in the paint. He still has much to learn about the game of basketball. The guy can definitely stand some more improvement, but he has improved nonetheless, just not enough to earn his contract at this point.

I think the Clippers should trade DJ if they can. I think he could use a change of scenery and the Clippers could use the salary relief.

Cliptonyte
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Agent0, excellent analysis

Cliptonyte
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If the Clippers keep DJ, I hope they bring in someone like Patrick Ewing as an assistant coach. I like DJ, but I don't like the contract.

Clippersfan86
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Agent is the improvement enough after 5 years? At best we can say he marginally improved. Not good enough for a freak specimen who makes 11 mill a year.

tense2
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I agree and these sites seem too also.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/129-deandre-jordan

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213LAC.HTM

CapsNClips
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tense2 wrote:

Quick question, where is the stat that shows how many times DJ Was on the bench during crunch time?

Those stats mean nothing with 5 minutes left and DJ is picking his nose on the pine while our undersized C's try to protect the paint.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Where's the stat that shows the resistance required for Ben Wallace to hold his own against Shaquille O'Neal in his prime at 6'9" 250?

tense2
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CapsNClips wrote:
tense2 wrote:

Quick question, where is the stat that shows how many times DJ Was on the bench during crunch time?

Those stats mean nothing with 5 minutes left and DJ is picking his nose on the pine while our undersized C's try to protect the paint.

You'll have to ask our recently fired coach that question. Smile

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