DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 2)

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ClipperRevival
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Dj is terrible. The only rebounds he gets are the ones that come to him. He almost never goes after rebounds. He almost never boxes out. For a guy who is asked just to play D and grab rebounds, he's terrible. Just terrible. And the guy has pure butter fingers. He's so clumsy out there. No basketball iq. He's an athlete trying to play basketball. Ship him before his value drops even further. He really does little to help the team. No impact.

ClipperRevival
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And he sucks at doing this. I would rather have Turiaf in there over him. At least i know Turiaf will get some good rebounds and go after them. Watching Dj play is just frustrating.

ClipperRevival
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He's only had a handful of games where his impact made a big difference. 90% of the time though, just a liability more than an asset. Anything positive he contributes is based purely on his natural athleticism and nothing more. He's so gifted physically but doesn't know how to use them.

ClipperRevival
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Bad stretch? He's been on a bad stretch for most of his time here then.

ClipperRevival
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The guy hurts the team more than helps it. Just watch him play sometimes. He's never really thinking out there but just reacting. He never anticipates but just reacts. He's always late. Watching him rebound is comical. He almost never boxes out. All he does is jump and reach. With his talents, he should be a defensive and rebounding monster.

ClipperRevival
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And let me just clarify, i like the guy. We all know what type of locker room guy he is. But his performance on the court is just bordering on pathetic. He lacks any fire. He just seems to have too much fun and doesn't take his craft seriously like Blake.

Keatonsays
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I'd still take my chances with DJ. There's just too much potential there to give up on. We've seen him have some really big games for us in the past and he has all the tools to be a great center in this league. He just needs the right coach to drill the fundamentals into him.

Also, I think it would help us a lot more if we went back to getting him involved in the offense early in games. I think if we used him better offensively, he'd help us more defensively like he has in the past.

Clippersfan86
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I agree on the rebounding being laughable. Dude tries to jump over people or reach over their backs. How about boxing out for once? Hilarious when guards box him out successfully and he cries to refs. He's soft as hell.

ClipperRevival
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It's just not in him mentally. The guy is a jokester. He doesn't care about being great. And that's not a knock on him because not too many strive for greatness. To me, he's a very athletic player trying to play basketball. The game just doesn't come natural to him. Most of the time, he looks like a chicken with its head cutt off outside of his lob dunks.

Clippersfan86
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Same. Great teammate, amaxing chemistry guy but just not cutting it. Like you said no fire, toughness or heart. He's similar to Dwight personality wise which is annoying on the court.

Keatonsays
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Very astute analysis of his drive. His problem is that he lacks focus and consistency, which are issues you can easily attribute to his youth. The guy is 24 years old getting paid 10.5 mil a year, playing on the best team in the league which happens to be in Los Angeles. Not to mention he's playing for a "just go out and have fun" coach, who's still relatively inexperienced, especially when it comes to having a championship mentality.

I think a deep playoff run will really help DJ mature and develop the focus he needs to become a more consistent player. The potential is there, I know the desire is there but he just lacks the focus. Once he gets that, the sky is the limit.

botev1921
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I am 99% sure DJ will be traded once CP3 signs in the summer. He started the season slightly better than last year and then went back to his rookie season in terms of impact. I can't see a sane coach or GM tolerating the guy for much longer. I would gladly have DeJuan Blair in the summer.

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
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DJ has a huge contract for a long time and plays like crap. If he had an expiring contract maybe. Who wants him? We would never make a deal with LAL although Pau would be better. Trade for Bymun Twisted Evil Unfortunately Hollins gets a foul every 30 sec or he should start.

I think we may be screwed. He can't play in the PO's. It's half way through the season and we see nothing. One problem is that he's playing on an elite team and with LO playing at a higher level and Turiaf playing with passion his faults become more obvious. Who was his competition? KMart and Reggie both of whom got more minutes.

FightOnRon
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Glad this thread was started. generally when CTB turns on a player, they turn into an all star. Maybe it will work again. Look what the Fire Vinny thread did.

You have to ask yourself, was DJ signed to the big contract because the Clips really wanted to keep BG32 and we kept him happy by giving BG32s best friend a good job.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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Lol you guys.... In no world is Ronny Turiaf and Hollins remotely as good as DJ. I don't like how DJ has been playing but at least give him a little bit of credit....

CP3Best
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Honestly, For WHAT? He's been doing NOTHING the past 6 games, his post game has vanished, his free throws didn't take that turn we thought they would like Griffin just started lighting it up, he's playing 21 minutes and barely scoring 2 or 3 pts, with 3 or 4 rebounds.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
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CP3Best wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Lol you guys.... In no world is Ronny Turiaf and Hollins remotely as good as DJ. I don't like how DJ has been playing but at least give him a little bit of credit....

Honestly, For WHAT? He's been doing NOTHING the past 6 games, his post game has vanished, his free throws didn't take that turn we thought they would like Griffin just started lighting it up, he's playing 21 minutes and barely scoring 2 or 3 pts, with 3 or 4 rebounds.

Cuz like the man said, he's still better than those two, lol.

http://www.hoopdata.com/gamelog.aspx?pl ... p;l10=true

toohipcliptoslip
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Everybody forgets. Lamar is 6' 10" with a huge wingspan. He's not athletic but a lot better player

ClippersRise
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I feel for the guy. Even when he does play good Vinny still doesn't give him much more time out there. I can understand if he's lost some motivation because of this

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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i dont feel for him. hes getting paid according to what is expected of him. he needs to focus on d and rebounding. he also needs to improve at the foul line. he shot 53 percent last year, hes at 41 percent now. inexcusable.

Clippersfan86
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Honestly I get more and more angry with DJ day by day and want him off the team. I don't give a rats ass about chemistry or Blake's feelings. He's hurting the damn team. We pay him 11 mill a year to be our 7th best player?

3pc
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agreed 100000000%....he doesn't know how to position and likes to leave his man open by jumping on every guard

Grillinnap
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DJ's still the whipping boy after a barrage of conceded 3-pointers. He wasn't bad tonight. He did most of his job in 21 minutes. He was also part of putting Perkins on the bench. Perkins would've been guarding Blake and he's the better one-on-one defender than Ibaka. Ibaka just couldn't handle Blake tonight.

Phu7
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I wished he would have just practiced defense all summer. That is what we needed. It was nice to see him make a few post moves in the preseason and early this season but the guy is just too inconsistent. He's got happy feet, the guy needs to slow it down. We just needed him to be Ben Wallace 2.0. The guy seems like Dwight Howard without the skills...funny dude and bad body language. DJ doesn't say it but don't you just see it with his body language that he wants touches in the post and always looks at Vinny in a negative way when taken out of the game

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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This is so sad that few people are watching games we got killed on the perimeter and its been the reason for each and every loss but it's always Jordan fault. They want him to play a bigger role but he is only playing 21 minutes and no is seeing that Odom takes terrible shots and is getting slower on d as of late.

Icecoldclipper
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CP3Best wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Lol you guys.... In no world is Ronny Turiaf and Hollins remotely as good as DJ. I don't like how DJ has been playing but at least give him a little bit of credit....

Honestly, For WHAT? He's been doing NOTHING the past 6 games, his post game has vanished, his free throws didn't take that turn we thought they would like Griffin just started lighting it up, he's playing 21 minutes and barely scoring 2 or 3 pts, with 3 or 4 rebounds.

only the past two games its been 3 and 4 and even then he had two or three plays where he kept plays alive with back taps or drawing an offensive boards battling on the glass.

Anyone who watched the GSW game could see he kept plays going with taps but they don't count for him as rebounds and every game before he was having 6-8 rebounds in 21 minutes! no player puts up big numbers often in limited minutes for damn sure defensive guys on limited touches

david
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Yeah Lamar definitely took some ill-advised shots last night. I definitely don't like to see him shoot 3's or even long jumpers unless in garbage time. DJ did okay, but the defensive game plan pretty much didn't make him much of a factor. Too often he was out on the perimeter on switches. Against OKC, the Clippers might want to try anchoring DJ down low, don't have him follow the big man out too much, and then body up on the shooters to make them drive, or at least dribble inside the 3 point line to shoot 2's. Or even better, rotate as the shooter drives, and then force the pass to the big man who came out to set the screen, and let that guy shoot an open shot, and secure the defensive rebound.

I'd like to see Durant try to throw one down on DJ- I really would like to see the attempt and the result.

82-0
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Turiaf and Hollins actually give a crap and try despite their limited talent. DJ sucks for what he's paid. He's lazy, can't box out, can't make free throws, and STILL bites on every pumpfake known to man. Then when he's not allowed to play in the 4th, instead of getting mad at himself and working his ass off to EARN that trust, he pouts and "loses confidence". He is so not worth that contract, and he's spent his whole career demonstrating why he slid from the top-10 pick he was percieved to be all the way down to the second round on draft day.

Sorry I'm being so harsh, but just look at his contract compared to his production, which has barely improved at all, ever. There's a certain level of expectation that comes with that much money and he's not even close to meeting it. We're lucky other teams are dumb enough to take deeply-flawed bigs because of their "potential," otherwise we'd never be able to move that contract.

Icecoldclipper
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ClipperRevival wrote:
KP wrote:
I still have faith in dj... i think hea just in a bad stretch, he's not elite so that happens.... he started out the year playing great, i saw the improvement

Bad stretch? He's been on a bad stretch for most of his time here then.

he has only had three bad games in this month so far even in big games he is playing in limited minutes. You also fail to see each and everyone of our losses have been off of poor perimeter defense.

Jordan is playing in limited no even have a game so when he can put up 3 and 6-8 boards those are huge boosts and keeps plays alive on the offensive end being active.

82-0
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Yes, perimeter defense is a big problem that needs to be solved. But if you don't think our overpaid center who can't get a rebound and essentially makes us play 4-on-5 with the starters in isn't just as big of a flaw, you're kidding yourselves. I hope he's ready to get very few minutes in the playoffs if he isn't dumped on some other team by then.

Icecoldclipper
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Look at the production he held his own against good centers and either put up strong D or put up points to help cancel out the center.

In this month alone I count only 3 real bad games the ones we lost were all poor perimeter D

Nuggets- Jordan was balling early but still played limited time even then we got killed on the perimeter D with Gallo quickness and Iggy's power

GSW-Next game even more limited but again perimeter shooting cost us the game

Orlando-playing a great game in the low post game limited time and perimeter scoring and shooting

GSW-bad game numbers wise though he was being active keeping plays alive but again that loss was all on the perimeter shooting

OKC- good numbers in limited minutes but again PERIMETER SHOOTING!

You people are being lazy looking for a scape goat Jordan has been productive even in more limited time in favor of Odom.

Icecoldclipper
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Dude look at the game log he is getting rebounds in games even in the GSW game he was getting back taps that don't count as offensive rebounds.

He is playing 21 minutes man I can't express how that is hard enough in itself to do while playing with Blake Griffin. People want DJ to average 11-12 rebounds that is damn near impossible to do in 21 minutes

Icecoldclipper
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Go back over the entire season give me 3 games where we lost because we got beat up inside on DJ. I can even go flash back in the days and fat Odom and say 1 could be the Nets game against Brook Lopez but we even hind sight Brook is playing like an all star

vltor711
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DJ has 3 major flaws 1) He can't catch anything below his head 2) He would rather jump over people than box out 3) Worst of all he lacks effort ( I have never seen him dive for a loose ball)

Icecoldclipper
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1) Like posting up in the previous games and scoring and is it not harder to catch a ball above your head anyway

2) Sorry to break it to you but most bigs don't box out as much as you think and when DJ does box out he usually bodies his defender and allows the guards to get the board and

3) Offensive rebounding in itself if one of the hardest signs of effort going into the paint trying to get your team second and third possessions. How about trying to helping players that get beat off the dribble going over to help and block shots or rotate trying to use length by putting hands up to alter shots. How about how he is setting off the ball screens that help get shooters open for good looks (often missed earlier in the season) or how about being supportive on the bench applauding his teammates when they do well or make big plays. So yeah sorry he does not dive for loose balls every time down the floor though has dove out of bounds to save a ball couple times.

A gripe that is real with DJ is the pick and roll defense there is poor communication there he should not be committing on the switches as often. I understand if he doesn't its a open shot but you have to make sure the guard gets back because no matter how much you try a guard will always have an advantage on the switch. He needs to greatly improve pick and roll awareness and adjustments.

toohipcliptoslip
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If DJ was playing to expectation he would get minutes. It's that simple. VDN wouldn't keep a guy who could produce on the bench. In theory he's better than LO. Don't you think CP3 would raise the roof if DJ deserved more minutes and didn't get them.

2013worldchampionclips
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you guys clearly do not see the in's and out's of this team.

how in the world does the 2 most freakish athletic men the game has ever seen be so inconsistent

i go to the practices, i see exactly why a player of the magnitude of Blake Griffin and DJ are not consistent

Did you guys know when the clippers practice or run 3 on 3 drills both blake and DJ are taken to the side to work on individual moves,

DJ does about 50-80 turn around jump hooks and Blake does the same too but involves more dribbling

Ive seen a lot of big man practices 1st hand ...and i do mean a lot, but blakes and dj practices are 1 of the dumbest, saddest, really almost mentally ill type practices ive ever seen

why is that you ask?

MARC IVARONIE!!!!.. is the only 1 allowed to show them moves and its HIS REGIMENT thats he teaches over and over

these guys are not soft, they are just not coached properly

i know the "some" of you do not want to hear this but STOP AND THINK FOR A SEC AND SERIOUSLY ASK YOURSELF

hmmmmm would DJ and Blake be a lot better with a George Karl or popovich or even a Marc jackson ?

not a """ooh we never been here before hooray for vinny"

but instead say ...""oh its game 4 in the playoffs and our 10 mil freak ball player cant get a point"

phaded21
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Kevin Mchale might be available at the end of the season. He would help those guys tremendously. I love both DJ and Blake.

2013worldchampionclips
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ohmygoodness

DJ would be unstoppable at that point

did you know marc ivaronie teaches him only 1 move!!

its truly remarkable

TheDude
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I won't begin to act like I know what an NBA practice is supposed to look like but having DJ do 80 straight jump hooks every day seems like a good idea to me. He came nto the league completely devoid of offensive game. He still sucks on that end but he's shown signs of being able to make a move every once in a while this season. He's definitely better than last season although his horrific FT shooting and erratic effort/attitude still hold him back.

Do you work for the team? Can the public go to practices? Sounds awesome!

phaded21
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2013worldchampionclips wrote:
phaded21 wrote:
Kevin Mchale might be available at the end of the season. He would help those guys tremendously. I love both DJ and Blake.

ohmygoodness

DJ would be unstoppable at that point

did you know marc ivaronie teaches him only 1 move!!

its truly remarkable

Every time I hear retired big men like Shaq and Chuck talk about Blake, they speak about how they should learn one move and a counter move. Marc Iavaroni might be paying too much attention to them.

CP3Heliflopter
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phaded21 wrote:
2013worldchampionclips wrote:
phaded21 wrote:
Kevin Mchale might be available at the end of the season. He would help those guys tremendously. I love both DJ and Blake.

ohmygoodness

DJ would be unstoppable at that point

did you know marc ivaronie teaches him only 1 move!!

its truly remarkable

Every time I hear retired big men like Shaq and Chuck talk about Blake, they speak about how they should learn one move and a counter move. Marc Iavaroni might be paying too much attention to them.

One go to move is fine if you can do that move at an extremely high level but Blake can't. We need a good big man coach.

Don't agree with giving either of them a pass though. There are plenty of people that can teach them post moves if they seeked them out. Also the problem with DJ is not his offensive game. Its his defense, his attitude, and his poor Ft shooting. Not sure what has happened to BG in terms of rebounding either.

phaded21
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Blake needs at least 2 moves and 2 counters. One move and counter for defenders his size that he can physically dominate, and another for long defenders that really bother him. I'm sick of seeing him spin and get stuck with his head stuck in their chest. But Blake is really good at improvising at times, so I'm not that worried about him offensively. His rebounding does concern me though. When he was a rookie, he was a monster on the glass. Now that he wants to shoot jumpers, that affects his rebounding. He's at the elbow most of the time now, and that positioning won't help him rebound.

DJ just needs to hit his free throws. Players aren't passing him the ball because of that. At times, he shows us moves that shows that he could be dominating, but if he starts dominating in the paint, all defenders have to do is wrap him up and make him shoot free throws.

david
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Merged and renamed thread to "Official DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread".

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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Unless DJ starts to average a solid 10 and 10 for the rest of the playoffs, (he's only average 2.8 & 6.5 so far) I say we trade him. The guy has played like complete garbage this entire series. He's useless. Not to mention, he's not even doing the only thing he usually does consistently, which is shoot the ball at high %. I honestly say we trade him for a draft pick. I know this draft isn't to deep but neither was last years and the Pistons were able to get the very raw Andre Drummond @ 9. In just one year he's already progressed the same amount as DJ has in 5. I'm fed up with DJ not boxing out, playing horrible man defense, and not making any progress in his FT shooting, making him a liability late in games. It's time we get rid of him.

gman
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DJ needs to come out like there is a stIck up his arse. lots of energy and for the love of basketball, stay close to gasol. he can make outside shots

gman
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wait, why vinnys fault here? you said it yourself. its ivaronie. so in essence, its not pop or jackson. Plus vinny was/is a shooting guard.

Agent0
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Repped High Quality Post

Yea, has nothing to do with Vinny, that's on the team for who they hired as their big man coach. DJ improved this off-season by working with John Lucas. Blake was supposed to work with Hakeem, but got injured.

Also, let's take into account that DJ plays most of his minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters.

Marc Gasol by quarter over the 4 games:

1st Quarter: 5/14 (35.7%)

2nd Quarter: 6/10 (60%)

3rd Quarter: 9/19 (47.4%)

4th Quarter: 5/10 (50%)

Gasol is beating on other Clipper bigs just as much or more than DJ. In the game DJ played the most, game 1, 30 minutes, Gasol had his worst scoring game, 16 pts, 4/12 FG, 8/11 FT, .475 TS%, 2 rebs, 40 minutes. Outside of drawing the FT's, he was poor. In the game that DJ played the least (17 minutes), Gasol had his best game 24 pts, 9/14 FG, 6/7 FT, .703 TS%. Gasol hadn't gotten over .503 TS% in any of the first 3 games.

I'd rather give up 44% FG on annoying 2PT jumpshots, which equals poor efficiency than send a guy to the line so much like Ronny and Hollins do

david
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Agreed 100%. Nice research and repped for the stats supporting your argument.

tha_situation
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First off, DJ and Blake switched up a lot. DJ wasn't guarding Marc 100% of the time he was in the game, Blake did a better job I thought even with a hurt ankle.

secondly, we shouldn't be comparing our 10mil starting center to his backups. It's pretty sad actually that's there's an argument who's gets scored on worse, our starting center or his backups. Compare DJ to other starting centers and cry urself to sleep.

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