DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 16)

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Agent0
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Well put. Looks like someone already repped you for this one my man.
Well put except it's a misrepresentation of what I was saying, basically beating up the strawman of DJ being great which I've never said or implied. Also arguing against me with exactly what I said "though lucky for Jordan he isn't that skilled outside of dunking anyways, so it isn't that off". Not to mention that in a Paul vs Parker argument, Paul wins the statistical battle anyways. Proponents of Parker are generally saying "well SA is better and went further in the playoffs, so Parker is....

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tense2
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Now this is well put. Less long winded (and I say that with the utmost respect Agent0, Wink) then most of your post, but as usual, concise and to the point.

CP3Heliflopter
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I don't see why its so implausible that DJ is better than Mullens and has more upside. I want to see an argument that proves otherwise.

Btw I hate DJ and probably underrate him a tad at times. I think Mullens will be a nice backup if he makes some improvements. He will have a coach that will help him play smarter and he will have a the best PG in the league setting him up but he certainly won't be better or more valuable than DJ and on the off chance he is.... Lets say we are screwed if DJ plays that poorly.

ArmoClipFan
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According to NBAwowy.com, Clippers' opponents made 63.8 percent of their shots at the rim when Griffin and Jordan played together. The Sacramento Kings were the only team in the league who allowed a shooting percentage at the rim higher than that mark all of last season.

time for both to sack up..

Agent0
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Is that about sacking up or just rotating better? Also how does the wing defense when Blake and DJ are on the floor together play into that? Blake and DJ didn't play together with guys like Bledose and Barnes on the court.

...but don't forget, they were better than the combo of David Lee and Carl Landry. What a terrible thing for defense playing those guys together is.

With that said, they do need to improve defensively for this team to maximize it's potential.

DanziM
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This workout can only help DJ, can't wait to see him in Vegas

Voyeur
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Yeah, maybe with Coach K and all those high quality assistant coaches, DJ will learn a little more defensively.

pageC4
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wow. Well, doc says he has watched about 42 of our games so far. He will identify weaknesses and work on them

ClipperKyle32
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DeAndre Jordan is the Los Angeles Clippers' second-best big and their best rebounder and rim-protector. But they can't win a title if he doesn't improve, and he's done very little improving on either end over....

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phaded21
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In my eyes, DeAndre has improved since he's been drafted. DeAndre has a nice soft touch around the rim, and shoots his hook shots with either hand surprisingly well; he couldn't do anything but dunk when he first got here. Another problem offensively is that he shows the ball too often when he dribbles in the post, and he isn't aware when another defender sneaks up on him. He isn't a bad passer in the post either (compared to other big men). His freethrow shooting is his main problem, and I think it's because he's thinking of his mechanics too much but that's just my opinion. Sometimes you just got to let it fly, or just bank the damn thing! We need those points DJ!!

Defensively, that's where he needs to improve the most. His offense shouldn't be his priority, which is why I don't care too much about it for DJ. Doc brought out the best out of Perkins defensively, and I hope he does that for DJ as well. We should all get a good idea of how DJ has improved by the All Star game. He played OK in the USA scrimmage, I hope he learned a few things from coach K.

BringMcadooBackado
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... r-position

2/5 of the analysts call DJ the most overrated center in the league.

What can I say? As of right now, they're right.

JahvonTheClip
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Overrated!?!?!?! No one thinks DJ is better than he actually is. People just hope he improves but he isn't overated

clipstar
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^ I agree... But I'm thinking those analysts are saying overrated simply because of his contract and what he's done with it ( or hasn't) since then.

BringMcadooBackado
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I actually disagree. I think that there is a perception of DJ around the league that is different from our own. People see his highlights and think that he's a dominant force.

Of course, they don't look at the box scores and see that he only played 16 minutes that game, going 1/5 from the line and sitting the entire 4th quarter.

clipstar
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People do see his highlights but not once have I heard anybody call him a dominant force. Shotblocker? yes ..... Durable? yes ..... Entertaining as hell? yup but not dominant and the only comparions I seen with regards to Shaq and Dwight is his free throws.

BringMcadooBackado
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I meant more along the lines of fans of other teams rather than analysts.

Yes, I agree, I don't think that I've ever heard of any analyst saying that he's a dominant force without interjecting "should be" in the middle of it.

Agent0
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no one thinks he's good enough for him to,b overrated. Seriously, when have you heard someone call him a top C? Someone has to be rating you high for you to be overrated.

Agent0
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i don't think I've talked to any fans that think DJ is dominant, quite the opposite really

BringMcadooBackado
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I have quite a few friends, Lakers fans and GS Warriors fans, that think DJ is a very good player. And these are smart people, but they just don't know the whole story when it comes to his performance. Hence, overrated in the eyes of some people.

That being said, the article, as mentioned above, was probably referring to his rating based on his contract's salary. For someone who's making more than $10 million a year, he' not performing to the level that he should be.

Greenmonk94
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Agree with the article about centers.

DJ is very overrated and his friendship with Blake has kept him here.. I'll all game for DJ for anyone who can rebound and make free throws (asik)

CapsNClips
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DJ is the 8th highest paid center in the league; passing up centers like Duncan(he's a C), Verajao, McGee, Asik, Gortat...etc and he use to have a giant billboard of him on a hotel along with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.

If those aren't signs of being overrated I'm not sure what is. The man has never averaged double figures in any category, yet he's considered by some to be a DPOY candidate next year. It's a fun theory. A crazy theory, but a fun one non the less.

pageC4
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I can only hope that Doc Rivers can use DJ the right way and fulfill that potential. Otherwise as you said he is getting paid a lot more than what he deserves

tense2
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8th highest paid center?...hmmm. Can't find him on this list.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nba/center/

pageC4
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the list stops at 10, but out of curiosity where does DJ rank among centers?

jarca
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Probably #12-15

CP3Heliflopter
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^That is awfully generous. Its debatable if he is even top 20 especially with how he plays in the playoffs.

Flushyriver
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I think they're talking about ranking his $11 mill salary. I believe he's 16th among "centers" in the league (though if you take out the PFs that play/played C, he's 8th). I personally don't think that's too far off from his ranking among centers in the league when you consider potential and upside, but I guess it really depends on your preference of pure centers.

EDIT: Here's the salary ranking.

Name Salary

Amare Stoudemire $21,679,893

Dwight Howard $20,513,178

Pau Gasol $19,285,850

Chris Bosh $19,067,500

Marc Gasol $14,860,523

Brook Lopez $14,693,906

Emeka Okafor $14,487,500

Roy Hibbert $14,283,844

LaMarcus Aldridge $14,128,000

Tyson Chandler $14,100,537

Andrew Bogut $14,000,000

Nene $13,000,000

Kevin Garnett $12,433,735

Al Horford $12,000,000

Joakim Noah $11,100,000

DeAndre Jordan $10,986,550

JaVale McGee $10,750,000

Tim Duncan $10,361,446

Andris Biedrins $9,000,000

Kendrick Perkins $8,977,437

Omer Asik $8,374,646

Marcin Gortat $7,727,280

Spencer Hawes $6,600,000

Channing Frye $6,400,000

Jason Thompson $5,643,750

DeMarcus Cousins $4,916,974

Marreese Speights $4,515,000

Marcus Camby $4,383,773

Ian Mahinmi $4,000,000

Jonas Valanciunas $3,526,440

Kosta Koufos $3,000,000

Kwame Brown $2,945,901

Aaron Gray $2,690,875

Nick Collison $2,585,668

Andre Drummond $2,462,400

Meyers Leonard $2,222,160

Brendan Haywood $2,050,000

Tyler Zeller $1,633,440

Andrew Nicholson $1,482,000

Donatas Motiejunas $1,422,720

Jared Sullinger $1,365,720

Fab Melo $1,311,240

Miles Plumlee $1,121,520

Arnett Moultrie $1,089,240

Festus Ezeli $1,066,920

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2bXvZgDYv

http://www.draftexpress.com

CapsNClips
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Well, lets play a game. It's called "find the PF's in that list of C's"

Pau, Stoudemire and Ibaka are not Centers. So he's the 9th highest paid Center...Oh then that makes all the difference in the world.

I guess DJ isn't overrated. I thought he was when he was the 8th highest paid, but now that I know he's the 9th I feel as if he underrated now.

CapsNClips
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Correction: actually Nene was the PF for the Washington Wizards. Hmmmm that makes 1..2..3..4..5..6..7 Centers who get paid more than DJ. So if I've done my math correctly and I'm no mathematician, but I'm fairly confident that would make him 8th.

Flushyriver
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Not to nitpick, I get that you don't think DJ is worth his salary yet, but you can't take both Okafor AND Nene off that list (both get paid more than DJ). If you consider players that may not be pure centers but do (or will this year) play the 5 you get:

Dwight Howard $20,513,178

*Pau Gasol $19,285,850

(I know Kaman starts but Gasol is more the backup C than Jordan Hill)

Chris Bosh $19,067,500

Marc Gasol $14,860,523

Brook Lopez $14,693,906

Roy Hibbert $14,283,844

Tyson Chandler $14,100,537

Andrew Bogut $14,000,000

Nene $13,000,000

Al Horford $12,000,000

Joakim Noah $11,100,000

DeAndre Jordan $10,986,550

If you consider our more restrictive center consideration, can't really rank DJ far lower than 12th in ranking of centers right?

CapsNClips
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If we are lumping Forwards that can play Center with DJ then he's really gonna look bad getting paid more than players like West, Anderson, Green, Favors, Davis, Monroe, Gibson, Milsap, Scola, Brand, Patterson.

Flushyriver
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Well most of those are clearly forwards...Nene is both listed as a center and is expected to be Washington's starting center.

I get what you're saying though. There are definitely players that have proven better than DeAndre and get paid less. But I don't think he's as overrated as you think just because of his athletic ability and high ceiling of potential.

toohipcliptoslip
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For you old timers can anyone say Corey Magettee? Great subject off season. DJ's not nearly as much fun. He's more fun than Kaman was.

!. The guy is weak to say the least and should be coming off the bench

  1. He's shown little improvement and his FT % is comical

3 He's soft

4 He has an attitude and delusions of mediocrity

5 He's worth maybe $6 mill but GSW and BG screwed us.

6 If Hollins weren't a foul machine he's got more talent and grit

7 He was given a pass for being a low draft pick (draft pick #'s are BS. You can play or not, screw pick #)

  1. He's a project. Yeah right for how many years.

9 He's a Dominant Force - at missing free throws.

10 He's got this yr and next. Maybe next yr he'll have value as an expiring contract

He has all the physical skills to be one of the elite centers in the league. How many of you, given those skills would be the dufus of the squad who isn't worth the wood he stands on or work your butts off and be good?

He could cost us a championship

Clipswhit
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Who on that list BELOW DJ, not on a rookie contract would you rather have?

Timmy obviously (franchise player discount)

Perkins, no.

Asik yes, but how good is his D?

Gortat, see above.

Anyone else? If anything, I'd say Asik and gortatat are underpaid for the position that they play.

botev1921
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Asik and Gortat are 10 times more polished centers than DJ, so only those two make him ridiculously overpaid! Asik has similar offensive game, but is much better on the glass (call me old-fashioned, but a center to me must hit the boards). Gortat is a real offensive threat and again better defender!

botev1921
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A list of centers, who I'd rather have instead of DJ and who I consider much better at the job a center must do for a team...and who deserve his salary and more:

Asik

Gortat

Pekovic

Lopez

Hibbert

M Gasol

Bogut

Noah

Chandler

Koufos

Drummond

CP3Heliflopter
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Asik is an absolute game changer on D. Rapm, on/off stats all favor him. Gortat is pretty good but not elite in that area but he is much better offensively than DJ.

tense2
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Of the 18,388 career minutes Nene has played in the league only 24% (4432 mins) have been at the PF position. His best numbers have been at the center spot.

He's a center who can sometimes play the PF position. Same can be said regarding Bosh (30% mins at the PF spot).

Oh and by the way your math is akin to a politicians. Smile

Flushyriver
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You'd rather have Kosta Koufos than Jordan? Now you're just mocking him...

CP3Heliflopter
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^Are you taking salary into account?

Flushyriver
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Well I don't think you could start him and pay him the 3 mill he's being paid now...

pageC4
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I definitely agree with number 5. Sterlings hand was forced in this signing. When we saw the rise of Blake Griffin we knew we had something special. After that Donald knew he was never going to get a player like this ever again, so he signs DJ to add to that core. Had Sterling let DJ go the press would be chiming in with the "Typicall Clippers" chants for letting go of young prospects. I think had GS not meddled in our afffairs we would have signed DJ for a much more reasonable price, which your proposed $6 mill would be nice.

CP3Heliflopter
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^Yep it was a lose lose situation. Makes me hate GSWs even more.

Flushyriver
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Agreed. Hate watching Clipper/Warrior games.

Agent0
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It was a lot of things fault. He's Blake's BFF, it was crucial in getting Paul to agree to be traded to the Clippers, and the Warriors are dummy heads. Basically DJ was making the extra money that Blake should have made the last two seasons because he was still on his rookie contract.

DJ's true market value because he's a C and he was young was ore than $6M, but probably about $8M a year.

clipperboy24
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Agree on all except koufos you must have not watched him play much, he is terrible.

Paolo310
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Hopefully DJ can prove all you haters wrong. I still have feeling that DJ's best days are still ahead of him.

Agent0
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Koufus is pretty decent, regular season he's basically DJ production wise, playoffs, he's basically DJ again, which is a bad thing, but he makes $3M.

Markojaric
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dj is not a bad player at all. he is grossly overpaid, thats the deal with him. Just hoping he can justify the paycheck hes earning.

Koufos in terms of quality/price is better than dj. In raw talent, Jordan gets the nod.

ClipperDB
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what is his f/t percentage?

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