DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 18)

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tense2
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Again gentleman, he was always better then you gave him credit for and the advance stats showed that. Instilled confidence can go a long way along with skill set.

Clippersfan86
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Tense I wouldn't go quite THAT far. He deserves at least some of the blame for the Vinny/DJ relationship. Sure Vinny crushed his confidence time and time again but DJ also made it worse by pouting, not playing hard and flat out not respecting anything Vinny said. All that matters now though is that Doc+DJ= Peaches+Cream lol.

CP3Heliflopter
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Yes DJ was definitely part of the problem but sometimes it takes the right coach to get 100% out of a player. Doc is an excellent motivator and is well respected by everyone. VDN did not seem to be respected by anyone on this team. They seemed to tune him out a lot of the time.

Silasie
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Agreed, the emphasis is on Vinny to handle the situation being the coach and a mature adult. But if DJ had manned up maybe Vinny would have given him more of a chance.

But also like you say it is all good now. Doc got DJ's number and it has made all the difference. Pheww.

Cliptonyte
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No doubt about it.

ClipperKyle32
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Does anyone realize our Deandre Jordan grabbed 18 Rebounds against Dwight Howard the supposed "Best Center in The League" DJ sure is making a name for himself! I AM PROUD OF HIM

Silasie
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Yep. The most rebounds of any player in the NBA that night.

pageC4
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Didn't he also have a huge rebounding effort against GSW as well? You're right that Deandre is finally going to get noticed after these efforts

CapsNClips
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What a great rebounding test up next for DJ. He took it to Howard, now can he do the same against K Love? Let's go DJ. #GrabEm

pageC4
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It looks like the T-Wolves are for real this year. They might be an 8th seed this year, so we will have our hands full on Monday night.

tense2
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If Blake keeps him under control he should.

tense2
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Maybe, but like I said he WAS always better then some people gave him credit for.

Vinny was who he was for better or worse and I think Doc has shown so far what the better approach is. Give him some confidence, more time on the court and let his skill set do the rest.

Agent0
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Why didn't Vinny and DJ get along anyways, what was it all about really?

Was I just the outcome of lack of minutes?

Kingkanyon
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I think it was the Lack of Consistency on the floor and belief. He played the Guy in the First quarter and he'd never see the floor in the 2nd until 4 to 5 minutes to go, and it would be worse in the 4th. Allot of those games DJ played great, so when your doing good and your took out of the game, it plays with your mind and you can get upset.

It's nice to play your bench, but DJ is young and needs time on the court to grow, Doc know's this.

Agent0
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Even if Doc didn't know this, there aren't any options this year behind DJ like in previous seasons with Reggie, Martin and Odom. But he does, and if he had those guys he would still prioritize DJ because he thinks bigger picture. He gets it that going far in the playoffs will depend more on a confident and good DeAndre Jordan than a Reggie Evans, Kenyon Martin or Lamar Odom getting minutes. That's where Vinny got lost. I feel the same thing with Bledsoe and Vinny.

You see Pop how he's quick to give good young players minutes, George Hill, Kawhi Leonard, it is because he gets that the teams potential doesn't increase from maximizing a veteran who you already knows what he gives and will always give that. That player is static, you've exhausted what you can get from him. The teams potential increases by maximizing your young talent.

If Vinny had that vision, Bledsoe would have been playing more SG alongside Paul and about 27 MPG and Jordan would have been playing about 32 MPG and both be allowed to pay through mistakes because maybe the mistakes don't win you 56 games, but it wins you 53-54 games, or maybe the same or more because later in the season they are producing more consistently. Then in addition to that, you have a more attentive, confident and useful player in the post-season.

tense2
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Agent, sometimes an injury or injuries will force a coaches hand obviously. I think POP had to used Hill more his 1st year due to the injury to Parker. Bledsoe played 1800+ mins his rookie season due to injuries and then was injured the following year. But he should have been on the court a lot more last year. Same goes with DJ not being on the court enough.

Leonard came right out the box his rookie year and played 1500+ mins like you said. POP does when and how to use his vets and rookies that's for sure.

Maybe Doc will be forced to use Reggie due to injuries, but I hope not and he can ease him into to the NBA slowly to boost his confidence.

ohMEohMy!
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DJ has looked great so far. Much more under control and he looks committed to doing the fundamental things. I think this is sustainable...

Agent0
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You are correct on that one, Bledsoe did get more of an opportunity as a rookie because Baron and then Mo had injury issues.

I think Vinny was not as flexible as he could have been there, but I would assume the fact that he liked job security also played a role in that.

jarca
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^^^^

that's what upset me about VDN. I was never saying play DJ on the 4th automatically but you have to give him chances when he's playing well to play down the stretch.

That's what happened last year. DJ never learned how to play in the 4th and then in the playoff VDN expected him to be a defensive monster

Agent0
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I meant to say "lacked" job security, but yes. I actually didn't hate VDN like some people. I still maintain that he's no worse than the average NBA coach, and he did a good job for his ability as a coach last season. With a guy like DJ though, you can't show no confidence in him then expect him to anchor your defense and produce at a high level when the stakes are high. It is sort of counter-intuitive.

letitbled
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Looking back the best move we made in the off season was not trading DJ for an aging Garnett. Garnett is averaging 6 pts and 6 boards a game while DJ is thriving. Every time the league gets involved we seem to come out on top.

jarca
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Anyone who isn't biased could see that VDN held Jordan back. We had a great record and he was trying to trade Jordan for KG last year before the trade deadline

Kingkanyon
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Yeah no lie, I was so mad when I heard this story last year. You want to trade a young 6'11 athletic Center for KG who Can't even average a block a game. I love KG but this was the craziest story last and this summer, heck I had to cross my fingers all summer long that we saw the light, good thing the the Owner and GM said no to Vinny, and good thing the League said no this summer, even though Paul Pierce Would have been great, but not if we had to give up DJ, I know it's Early but he's currently top 25 in player Efficiency, top 5 in Rebounding, Blocks, and FG percentage, not worth it.

pageC4
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I was shocked that the Clippers were even considering that trade. And what made me cringe is the so called "experts" claiming that the Clippers were stupid for turning down Kevin Garnet for a second tier center, Deandre Jordan

clipper*joe
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That was because we were in a win now situation and we needed experience. Anyone who isn't biased knows how bad DJ has been in the playoffs. Didn't Doc want to do the same trade before coming here too?

DJ held himself back. Once he realized he couldn't coast anymore even with the new coach, he was saying all the right things to stay here.

Voyeur
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The other reason KG was considered was because he's a mid range shooter. Likely he would be doing all the elbow plays allowing BG to be the primary inside option. I'm proud of the way DJ has played, although he still can't guard stronger dudes inside. His rebounding is awesome and his rim protection is up there. He's still a major liability on the FT line and there's no excuse for that. His FT form looks better than Blake's, yet he's still godawful.

DJ's positives can far exceed his negatives, but he's got to be able to stay in games.

Silasie
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Well hindsight is a glorious thing to be treated with caution.

But yes, with hindsight we certainly can be thankful Stern blocked the move.

jarca
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Yes because it was DJ's decision to sit himself out on the fourth. It was also DJ's decision to design a simpleton offense that relies on a "stretch four" DJ also planned a defensive scheme that plays a lot of one on one defense on the post and have guards trap constantly while leaving their men to have an easy path to the basket.

CP3Best
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Blake's jump shot looked HOT the other night, so I don't see the need for Garnett anywhere. Man Jordan has new life. ANd from what I can see it's gonna last, it's not just a spurt, he's been doing it against all types of teams, so I'm definitely excited.

jarca
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It's because he's in a system that allows him to impact the game besides having a couple of isolation post for him at the beginning of the game.

clipperboy24
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This is a great thread and good reminder:). So thankful we didn't trade him although I wouldn't mind Pierce.

Voyeur
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I'm a huge Blake fan, but I'm still not sure I trust that jumper. I wish I did. If he nails it with consistency the rest of the season, I'll be sold.

Silasie
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I haven't seen the game. Did he make many?

CapsNClips
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Don't forget a huge reason for getting KG was also to teach Blake. I'm still happy we didn't do it, but let's be honest, having KG mentor Blake for an entire season would've been better than 3 months at Hakeem's place learning footwork.

EwanB
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DJ has stepped up his game this season, but one thing is still holding him back... free throws. 0-6 in a game isn't good enough

CP3Heliflopter
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He had a poor game against Minnesota. He let Pek go off and didn't even make a single free throw but if this is his lowest I will take it.

jtwinnaz
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Check out DJ's new This is Sportscenter ad. its pretty funny

StrikeBack
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DJ has improved a little bit, he has flashed of using his brain. Like the other game, he blocked a shot and tapped it back into play. I was also impressed how he covered KMartin on the last shot. But he still can't guard one one one, against skill centers or power centers. He and blake still can't protect their board.

He's not messing up as bad as before, so I don't mind him as much. But he's faaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr from being the center the Clipps need in order to win a chip.

tense2
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You might add....YET.

toohipcliptoslip
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BIG SIX! Screw his FT's. I count them as gravy. He racking double doubles. If he gets 18 boards I don't care if his FT goes into the stands. By Feb he will have plays run for him in the post. He backs down guys every now and then Can you imagine him being first option on a pick and roll.

15 pts 9 boards tonight Season 11.8 ppg 12.9 boards. If he hits zero FT's I don't care

Icecoldclipper
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Free throws hurt last game but made the ones that counted tonight. Tonight was a underrated game but just against Minnesota he picked up the defense in the second half. Continued strong performance ans not getting down even during rough first half defensive stands like Minny shows he is staying locked into the game. The team overall with him still has work and room to improve.

DocHollywood
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Against OKC I watched numerous times as a man came into the paint looking to score and DJ's arms are down and he just rolled out the red carpet. This was when he had 0-2 fouls btw. He's a ton better than last year, but hasn't yet developed that consistent intensity and focus. Hopefully Doc continues to stay on him about every possession being critical.

CP3Heliflopter
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^Agreed.

toohipcliptoslip
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Guys Intensity and focus. Yes he can improve but averaging a double double and 18 boards against D12? It ain't chopped liver.. Numbers like that will make him a contender for most improved player (maybe) 12ppg/13boards is at least alstar consideration. If he hits his FT's maybe 14ppg. He cleans up a lot of the garbage and broken plays and unless you watch closely it's hard to notice but he alters a lot of shots.

Silasie
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I just saw this in a Q and A on HoopsWorld JJBB Despite D. Jordan's elite rebounds and blocks at this early point in the year he is ultimately not a very good defender and is atrocious at the charity stripe. Unless Doc sees the light, obtains a defensive stopper, and scales back on DeAndre's 36 mpg the Clips are destined to underachieve this year again. Do you agree or are you on the DJ bandwagon? Joel Brigham I am assuredly NOT on the DeAndre Jordan bandwagon. He'll always have a place in my heart for the Brandon Knight dunk last year (and that....

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Agent0
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If you're measuring defense by how many points the Clippers hold the opposition to, then they'll never be good. Clippers play 98.1 possessions / game, 6th in the league. If the Clippers had a 98.3 Drtg, which is what the Bulls have and third in the league, they would hold their opponents to 96 PPG and would be playing EXCELLENT defense. Indiana with the same defensive efficacy as that would hold their opponent to 90 PPG, but it doesn't mean they are defending better at all. So any talk of defense that starts with opponent PPG without context is already starting on the wrong foot.

Also saying that "the rest of the Clippers are equally as bad" is a bad general statement as it ignores the fact that the starting lineup has been good on defense.

tense2
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If you're measuring defense by how many points the Clippers hold the opposition to, then they'll never be good. Clippers play 98.1 possessions / game, 6th in the league. If the Clippers had a 98.3 Drtg, which is what the Bulls have and third in the league, they would hold their opponents to 96 PPG and would be playing EXCELLENT defense. Indiana with the same defensive efficacy as that would hold their opponent to 90 PPG, but it doesn't mean they are defending better at all. So any talk of defense that starts with opponent PPG without context is already....

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Silasie
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Thanks Agent, I knew his comments didn't sound right but didn't really know why. I can be a bit ignorant when it comes to stats.

CP3Heliflopter
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Man not only does that hoopsworld guy look like a dweeb but he does not seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to the Clippers. Don't answer a question about the Clips with such confidence if you aren't well informed Razz.

Not his fault per se. You can't be knowledgeable about every team.

Cliptonyte
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I would like to think that DJ is making progress with his free throws. He's had three horrible games from the line, but the other 7 games, he's been at 50% or better. Is anyone else at least a little encouraged by this?

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