DeAndre Jordan Performance Discussion Thread (P. 19)

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ArtMaggot
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I take back every bad thing I have ever said about DJ, so happy with the current direction and effort.

CP3Heliflopter
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He seems better than last season if anything.

The thing that is discouraging to me is opponent FG% at the rim is 62% when he is on the floor.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefe ... PerPage=25

Its not all his fault of course but its not a good sign.

tense2
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It's a sign that he and everyone else needs to continue to improve.

Clippersfan86
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CP3 I agree. It's weird but DJ hasn't become a dominant defender so much as he has a dominant rebounder and commits far less all around errors than before. Basically he's become Reggie Evans 2.0 but better on offense lol. We need that rim defense to be MUCH better than it is. Compared to last year though, it's really hard to gripe on DJ.

cleepers
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A lot of those 'at the rim' baskets are due to our terrible transition D. That's the fault of all 5 guys on the floor. DJ's biggest problem is still focus. He still takes plays off... but he's getting better.

ClippersDA
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I agree, seems like many easy lay ups when DJ is out there, but he is an elite rebounder now and shot blocker. Needs to be more aware in his rotations.

Clippersfan86
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Yea transition D+wide open dunks and layups because DJ is having to run from PNR help D all the way back to the rim, without dependable help. It's no surprise Blake and DJ are getting frustrated with our wings letting guys penetrate so easily and not helping.

tense2
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Nice breakdown/analysis of the good and bad of DJ's defense so far:

http://clipperblog.com/2013/11/19/the-t ... s-defense/

Agent0
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Yea, I read that too. Still has some areas to improve, and actually in general, I've been a bit worried about the hedge and recover by the big men, so good to see I'm not crazy.

Icecoldclipper
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For sure has to stay back on his man more often and not chase guards on the pick and roll. This team looks to be really bad at zone defense we just look lost and DJ should not be coming out of the paint trapping. Hopefully we stick to man to man with better team rebounding on the wings.

Jordan has to watch tape and get stronger we can't have post bigs working us come playoffs.

toohipcliptoslip
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Everyone forgets something. Last year he was a work in progress who lost a lot of minutes to LO. Now he's a full fledged respected NBA center.

Gone from marginally OK to OK and still improving. Why didn't he shoot that jumper last night?

Silasie
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It's happened so quick that it is easy to forget.

This is my 1000th post so I'm going to bed (1am here in Blighty)

tense2
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He was always better then marginally ok and this year, SO FAR, he's better then just ok. wink

CapsNClips
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DeAndre Jordan: 11.2 ppg/13.5rpg/2.3bpg/60%FG/45%FT

HOLY MOTHER OF ALL-STARS, this guy's doin' it big for us.

tense2
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And if he keeps those numbers up though seasons end and Lebron opts out, (which he will) try and do a S&T with Miami. DJ, Dudley/JJ, Reggie + 1st rounder for LJ. Very Happy

CapsNClips
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Where do I sign?

Clipswhit
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Pek

Duncan

Gasol

Howard

DJ

Bogut

Cousins

Should be a fun race, but I don't see DJ above Gasol, and while he's outplayed Howard twice, you know he gets the nod. Duncan gets it out of respect. DJ has to dominate on defense (opposing bigs have to get shut down) for DJ to sneak into a spot.

letitbled
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Only Howard and Duncan are definitely better. Gasol is old and soft, Pek is slow, Cousins is a head case and what's Bogut done?

tense2
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Maybe your choice but that's not what the current numbers say.

Agent0
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I think he's talking about Marc Gasol, not Pau Gasol.

Pekovic slowed his way to 25/10 on 11/15 FG against DJ.

Cousins is still an inefficient scorer, he's just shooting more this season, but at least he's doing a good job on defense for the Kings and on the glass. That's a hard one because Cousins is obviously a more dynamic player in terms of being able to score, but at his efficiency, certain teams would prefer him if he was taking less shots and sticking closer to the basket and putting the rest of his focus on defense. DJ can't do what Cousins can do in terms of creating offense, but Cousins can beast on the glass and have defensive impact, but can he be better on offense?

Bogut is manning what is currently the 4th best defense in the league along with Andre Iguodala. He has a 93 Drtg compared to the teams 98.7. Raw numbers wise he isn't impressing anyone since he's only playing 26 MPG, but per 36 he's putting up (9.1 pts / 11.7 rebs / 3.2 ast / 1.3 stl / 2.4 blks / .519 TS%). Scoring is awful, but outside of that, everything is great, and he's a better defender than DJ. The guy was a DPOY level defender in his best years with the Bucks, and is still that elite level defender when he's on the floor with GS.


In terms of DJ's backups:

Byron Mullens: 14.8 pts/36, 43.2% FG, 30.4% 3PT, .516 TS%, 3.0 turnovers/36, 93 Ortg

Of course he can go on another slump as easily as he's made shots lately, but let's hope that doesn't happen. Yea, 30.4% 3PT is not good, but he is currently on the upswing, so let's see if it keeps going up. If he can get to 34-35%, that would be great.

51.6% TS is a career high by a decent margin (previous high was .473), and his eFG% is .527 (previous high .444), but his 25% FT shooting his hurting him right now. His turnovers are higher than they should be for his role, so if he stops trying to create or dribble or those random things he does, the rate should go down.

His 93 Ortg is similar to Charlotte, but he was doing about 1.9 turnovers/36 there, so if that goes down to low 1's with him playing safe basketball, he can maybe even get up to being an average offensive player!

I know some people are thinking "why would that be exciting", and "why are we getting excited about a guy going from atrocious to less atrocious but still quite bad" but we're talking about a guy with a career 93 Ortg when the league average is usually about 104-105 and who had a 94 Ortg his last two seasons with Charlotte. The bar is not set at being Blake Griffin on offense. Getting to 100 which is still poor would be a massive improvement for him, not to talk about getting to the mid 100's, that would be crazy!

Now again, that doesn't solve his defensive issues, especially his 8.9 fouls/36 minutes, ahhh! But it is a start, at least be decent at something, just being bad at everything isn't good.

uncool
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Now I believe Doc's statement about not wanting to trade DJ for KG!! KG looks awful this year! Thank god, Stern saved us again on that one. Lol

jarca
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DJ has been getting into foul trouble the past couple of games

Agent0
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Kwame Brown has been waived. If he isn't now terrible in comparison to his Charlotte stint, then he would be a decent big man to sign.

CP3Heliflopter
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DJ needs to do a way better job contesting shots. Too often I see a player run towards the basket and make a floater or runner right in his face. He doesn't even raise his hand to try to contest the shot.

He has been sub-par at best the past few games especially his defense.

Voyeur
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There was one moment last night when I thought KD got away with another break from the refs (he gets so many, frankly) when they called a foul on DJ. When I saw the the replay was pretty much, "Yeah, DJ totally fouled him!"

Because instead of keeping his arms up...arms that might actually be able to contest KD's shot...DJ does what he SO OFTEN does. He brings his hands down and swats at the opposing player. Maybe it's me, but I'm just not as enamored with DJ's overall defense. The rebounding is undeniable.

MartyKahn
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The best thing to do with DJ is build him up to trade him. He's just not going to help win a ring, if that is the goal. Imagine someone like Nene or Horford. Or even Asik in a 3way. Even Spencer Hawes would be nice.

DJ has horrible hands too. He'd lead the league in rebs if he didnt have butterfingers.And he seems to never come up with the big rebs in crunch time.

I'd trade his reb for a big that can make a layup and midrange J and a decent wing defender.

toohipcliptoslip
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He will be fine.

tense2
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To you Blake and DJ just aren't good enough. Oh well.

Cliptonyte
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DJ has to be the most overly critiqued player in the league. If you breakdown footage of every player, you are going to find that all of them make mistakes and are at times slow to rotate etc. The Clippers starters are very good as a defensive unit. It's the Clippers bench that is sorely lacking when it comes to defense. Now, that isn't to say that DJ doesn't need to continue to improve. I just don't see why some people are so worried about him, when the starting unit has been very good?

tense2
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He's exceeded most of the fans expectations so far this season who were critical of him, but that doesn't stop them from wanting more. He still a work in progress. Keep the faith. Wink

DocHollywood
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If he can consistently at least pretend he's trying to protect the paint by putting his hands up, I'll be much happier.

EwanB
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couldn't agree more. is important that DJ keeps on improving and hopefully clips can pick up a good defensive stopper for the second unit

jarca
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Most improve player?

ClipperDB
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While I was excited to see DJ play improved Defense this season, apparently I'm not as "excited" as he is (see pic on "clipsnation.com")

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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At first I was first to see his improved rebounding and effort on defense, but it seems like the Clippers have been giving way too many easy baskets in the paint. I'm not sure if it's DJ's fault or the team's rotations, but it should ultimately be his responsibility since he's supposedly our defensive anchor.

According to this article from CBS.com, he really has been struggling on defense:

"On top of the awful at-rim and restricted-area numbers team wide, of all players defending 8 shots at the rim per game, Jordan is dead last in percentage allowed at 59 percent. In short, he's a 7-foot monster who can't defend the rim. That's a bad sign.

Maybe the worst stat though, is that with Jordan on the court, the Clippers surrender a 68 percent field goal percentage in the restricted area. With him off? That number drops seven percentage points to 61 percent. In short, the Clippers defend better at the rim with their best defensive big man off the floor."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... is-defense

He does get blocks but those are a bit overrated in my opinion. I hate to say it, but we should have traded DJ when we had the chance this past off season. A trade including him and Bledsoe for Afflalo and maybe Nicholson and Vucevic would have been great. Dudley hasn't proven anything this season and while Redick has played well, he still seems like more of a role player, while Afflalo has turned into a legitimate scorer. Anyway, there's my DJ rant. I hate to hate on him, but he's been testing my patience for far too long.

Dunkathon
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You know that the other team has to agree to the trade as well, right? I doubt the Magic would've given up Afflalo for Bledsoe alone. I also highly doubt they would've given up Vucevic.

Let's see how the Clippers do the rest of this road trip before going into full on panic mode.

clipper*joe
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You're going to get the stats guys mad. I've been saying this for the longest time...Well, without the actual %'s.

Very Happy

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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I'm aware of that, but I do remember hearing that the Magic were interested in a trade involving Bledsoe and Afflalo. I'm not sure what other players would have been involved, but if I were the Clippers I would've tried as hard as I could to make that trade happen. I've always been a Afflalo fan and he would've been a perfect fit for us. Even if Vucevic was off limits, I would have taken Nicholson, who's a solid big man.

Voyeur
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I'm not into all these regrets of who we didn't get. Yes Afflalo is a scorer. But he kinda has to be in Orlando. With Blake, Paul and Jamal it was more necessary to bring in a "role player" who can hit from the outside and play hard on defense. Not saying Afflalo couldn't do those things too, but Redick has fit right in from the beginning. Maybe for some reason Afflalo doesn't. As far as Dudley, he does look like a bust right now. It doesn't mean we can't make another move in the future.

As we know, Redick is injured. We didn't really see that coming. It happens unfortunately. So now we're playing like a team missing one of their major components...which inevitably leads us to asking "what if" questions.

Silasie
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I think you might have meant to put this in the JJ thread not the DJ one.

Voyeur
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I was kinda following up on the post just before mine.

Silasie
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^

My bad I should know by now how a thread will twist and turn..................and read a few more posts back Wink

ClippersDA
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How serious is his injury?

lucas26
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My cousin is a chef at a high end restaurant that DJ frequents and says he can be a pain in the you know what

ClippersDA
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I met him at a premiere, he was nice. He was with trey thompkins. I only talked to them for a few seconds, but I'd classify him as approachable.

Voyeur
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According to Clipperblog:

I guess that's what I've been seeing. We talk a lot about his improvements. And he is putting up great numbers, yet his defense always feels overrated.

http://clipperblog.com/2013/12/07/last- ... nt-page-1/

jarca
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I'll be more critical of his defensive effort when we actually addressed the back up big. I think right now he's playing a bit conservative to not get in foul trouble. It's not like he gets the benefit of a doubt when he jumps straight up lie Hibbert or Ibaka to an extent. It seems like every time he jumps straight up without bringing his arms down he automatically gets a foul called

Agent0
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In the league? I think his teammate Blake gets criticized more than he does, lol. The combo of DJ and Blake are certainly the most overly criticized big man combo in the league.

jarca has a point that foul trouble is an issue in that DJ and Blake will leave contests to not foul, but the bigger issue might be getting into better position earlier where your contest isn't as likely to cause a foul. DJ's defense isn't "bad". Overall, it is actually good, it is that his defense is bad in certain situations.

We are looking at all the negatives, but how about the positives for the team?

Opponent FG% - 44.9% (13th)

League average - 44.9%.

That's not the worst thing in the world to at least be average

As much as we might think 3PT defense isn't doing well, everyone gives up some open three's:

Opponent 3PT% - 33.7% (4th best in opponent 3PT%)

League average 3PT% - 36.0%

It's still early, but considering this teams 3PT defense in previous years, that is more than just a good sign, it is a great sign.

Clippers_FTW
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sooooooooo how serious is his injury again?

ClippersDA
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Read he is expected to play on Monday.

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