Jerry Buss Passes Away - RIP [updated]

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Amnesty_David_Stern
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Not a Laker fan but hope he pulls threw ok.

ClipperB23
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I do too, get well soon Jerry.

blasana
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heard he has been in the hospital for a couple months now, but just got switched to ICU which his never good. Thoughts and prayers are with him that he pulls through

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Really? Someone gave this post a negative rating?

cleepers
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^ People tend to vote threads up or down based on if they like the "news" the same way they vote for opinion threads. Like if you were to break the news here that Butler twisted an ankle or something, they'll vote it down even though YOU brought us the scoop. At the same time, you could break the news that we'd traded Butler for LeBron and even if you put an opinion in your OP that you thought it was a stupid move, people would vote your thread up anyway.

Drives me crazy too, but you have enough posts to not let a few neg votes take away your posting privileges. Don't let it get to you.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Oh I know, and I wasn't going to go into big detail, just showing my support. Everybody dies at some point and Buss is more than likely a big figure in the LA scene. Even if he's the owner of the enemy, he's a terrific owner and has been a genius at the helm of that team hiring the right people, so on and so forth.

Let's hope he pulls through and can "retire" a bit and enjoy the twilight years without having being confined to a hospital or a bed.

cleepers
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^ Sadly, I think this may be it for Dr. Buss. He's been ill for a long time and, like blasana said, moving into ICU at his age is not a good sign.

As for the thread's rating, it would look kind of morose if the title of this thread had a +10 next to it, and make Clips fans look pretty douchey. It's a flaw in the system.

ClipsGForce
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Get well Dr. Buss. One of the greatest owner in sports.

clipperstown
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Yeah you didnt get negative votes, just the idea/topic is sad news so the fact that hes in ICU and about to die got negative votes

MrHill
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Sad news today, as NBC 4 LA reported Dr. Buss passed away this morning just before 6.

Grillinnap
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RIP to a legend

tense2
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Farewell to one of a kind sports owners. RIP Jerry.

lobcityhawaii
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RIP Dr. Jerry Buss. A legend and definitely one of the greatest owners.

CP3Heliflopter
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Very sad to hear. RIP.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Pretty crappy. So whose in charge of the team now?

Clip-Man
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Sad news for sure. RIP

CP3Heliflopter
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Mr. Jimbo Buss has been charge for a while. He is an incompetent moron.

Silasie
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RIP Jerry.

cleepers
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First: We should probably change the title of this thread. Makes us look kind of amatuerish to be behind on the biggest story in sports today.

Second: I was reading about Jerry's passing on ESPN and the posts in their comments section are disappearing faster than laker fans during a blowout loss. The thing is, while some of them are really spiteful, others were just harmless little jokes about his penchant for drinking, gambling and younger women (facts that were reported in the main article) or reasonably polite comments that maybe he wasn't quite the saint he is being painted as. They didn't appear to break any site rules.

It seems that the only ones the moderators allowed were the standard "RIP" or "GOAT owner" and it got me thinking... When Whitney Houston died, I didn't hear anything like the same outrage when people mentioned her drug use or domestic troubles. Now I understand that ESPN is a private company and can allow or disallow whatever they want, but it's not like they're affiliated with the lakers... at least not officially. Obviously, I'd expect a huge amount of sensitivity on an exclusively laker site.

It made me wonder if the tolerance for that kind of thing varies according to the public perception of the deceased... and SHOULD it?

So as a sociological curiosity, I put this question to anyone who reads this... How soon is TOO soon?

As far as I'm concerned, there is no right or wrong answer, but I'm really interested to hear different views on the subject.

Grillinnap
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^ Didn't you make a tasteless joke about the Lakers franchise dying on the same day as Buss dying before the Clippers-Lakers game? Dude just passed away and your main concern is how soon is too soon to make jokes about him? And are you seriously comparing Buss' death to Houston's death? I bet you were itching post jokes in the comment box of ESPN.

cleepers
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^ Why shouldn't I compare reactions to their deaths? They were both human beings.

I have no "main concern", just a question.

Chill the f*ck out, dude.

Grillinnap
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Because they're not comparable. How sure are you that there was no outrage when people were bringing up Houston's history with drugs? Did ESPN post about it?

And yes, it does sound like this is your main concern, given the history of your opinions on Buss on this board. Of all things to say in this thread, you want to ask why it's inappropriate to make jokes about Buss just because you thought there was no "outrage" during the mourning of Houston's death.

cleepers
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So "rich old white guy who made millions of laker fans happy" > "black woman with tragic addiction who made millions of music fans happy" is your answer?

Grillinnap
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Here is your problem: You want to find something to compare Buss' death to so that it'd be okay for anyone to joke about him. So two wrongs make a right? My guess is your comment probably got deleted, that's why you made a pretty long post in this thread.

cleepers
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Thanks for the analysis, Dr. Freud, but I think I'll get a second opinion.

I just found it strange that while it was ok for an espn reporter to mention Dr. Buss' indiscretions, it was NOT ok for fans to do the same.

After the deaths of Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and others... news and entertainment websites (the ones I read at least) just seemed to allow people to be a little more free with their opinions than espn does.

It was a question prompted by my curiosity as to why, and I thought I could ask posters on another SPORTS forum how they felt about it.

If you don't like the 'game' you don't have to play.

Grillinnap
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cleepers wrote:
Grillinnap wrote:
Here is your problem: You want to find something to compare Buss' death to so that it'd be okay for anyone to joke about him. So two wrongs make a right?

Thanks for the analysis, Dr. Freud, but I think I'll get a second opinion.

I just found it strange that while it was ok for an espn reporter to mention Dr. Buss' indiscretions, it was NOT ok for fans to do the same.

After the deaths of Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and others... news and entertainment websites (the ones I read at least) just seemed to allow people to be a little more free with their opinions than espn does.

It was a question prompted by my curiosity as to why, and I thought I could ask posters on another SPORTS forum how they felt about it.

If you don't like the 'game' you don't have to play.

Probably because the respect that Buss got outweighed all his indiscretions by a lot while Jackson and Houston had a lot more reasons to be criticized when they were still alive. But hey, like I said, I'm guessing your comment in the comment box probably got deleted.

cleepers
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Well that's a reasonable conclusion to come to. I'm not sure that I agree that the public's esteem should be a factor in respecting the dead (after all, even Bin Laden was given a decent and respectful funeral), and that was mostly why I asked the question...

Now couldn't we have gotten there without the personal attacks?

Amnesty_David_Stern
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ESPN cracks down hard on a lot of topics. When the entire Jerry Sandusky thing was going on and almost daily a new topic was made, it would take minutes for a new reply to come up because ESPN wasn't allowing 99% of the garbage posted. It's not uncommon for ESPN to highly monitor a topic when it's getting blown up in the chat section. Trust me, I'm on there more than I'd like.

As far as Whitney Houston goes, I was reading about that on CNN and those replies were getting a little ridiculous.

cleepers
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Yeah, that was my point. It seemed like the moderators over there had a mandate to only allow the "RIP", "GOAT" posts. Some of the stuff that was up for only a few seconds wasn't really even disrespectful... just stuff about how Jim Buss won't be able to fill his dad's shoes or that a known drinker, gambler and womanizer shouldn't necessarily be remembered as a saint.

I think it's the Disney connection. It seems that they'd rather squash free-speech than risk offending a paying customer, and that's their right, but I don't think I like it. I'm pretty big on the 1st amendment... like they say - it's there to protect unpopular speech, because popular speech doesn't need protecting.

Grillinnap
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Any statement from DTS?

cleepers
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^ I don't think he tweets... and is there any other way the media collects statements these days?

Grillinnap
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From the Clippers website:

CP3Heliflopter
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cleepers wrote:
Amnesty_David_Stern wrote:
ESPN cracks down hard on a lot of topics. When the entire Jerry Sandusky thing was going on and almost daily a new topic was made, it would take minutes for a new reply to come up because ESPN wasn't allowing 99% of the garbage posted. It's not uncommon for ESPN to highly monitor a topic when it's getting blown up in the chat section. Trust me, I'm on there more than I'd like.

As far as Whitney Houston goes, I was reading about that on CNN and those replies were getting a little ridiculous.

Yeah, that was my point. It seemed like the moderators over there had a mandate to only allow the "RIP", "GOAT" posts. Some of the stuff that was up for only a few seconds wasn't really even disrespectful... just stuff about how Jim Buss won't be able to fill his dad's shoes or that a known drinker, gambler and womanizer shouldn't necessarily be remembered as a saint.

I think it's the Disney connection. It seems that they'd rather squash free-speech than risk offending a paying customer, and that's their right, but I don't think I like it. I'm pretty big on the 1st amendment... like they say - it's there to protect unpopular speech, because popular speech doesn't need protecting.

All the things you say are true but people always speak fondly of a person when they just died. Usually you have to wait a few days at least.

cleepers
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Yeah, some of the stuff was downright nasty... probably similar to the stuff that @Amnesty was talking about reading on CNN and the stuff I read on a few different sites after Whitney and Michael died. There's no doubt it should have been taken down.

I once knew a comedian who died suddenly and way before his time, and he was considered just about well-known enough that the Comedy Central website put up a tribute page for him. The guy was survived by his beautiful young family and I thought it was a really nice gesture for CC to provide a place for his fans to pay their respects and his family to read them.

99% of the comments were overwhelmingly positive and sympathetic, but there were some that were obviously posted with malicious intent... the guy had had some drug problems years before and there were comments like "junkie motherf*cker deserved it". I flagged them and they were removed fairly quickly because they were in obvious violation of the site rules. On the other hand, there were also comments like "I didn't think he was very funny" and "never heard of him" which, while insensitive and unnecessary, didn't break any rules and were ultimately each poster's personal point of view.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in a public forum of any kind, you're going to hear things that rub you the wrong way. There are rules in place to ensure that certain minimum standards are maintained, but it's impossible to coddle the sensitivities of every individual because we all have a unique moral code. I would much rather hear somebody's douchebag opinion and be moved enough to answer with my own douchebag opinion than feel that either one of us weren't allowed to say how we really felt. That's just oppression.

Anyway, I appreciate your input and I also want to give a shout-out to the David and the mods here for letting people be themselves and for keeping the rules the same every day for every subject. Seems like espn's rules vary according to how accomplished or beloved the subject of each thread is. I'll bet their moderators weren't nearly as trigger-happy on behalf of the feelings of Lance Armstrong or Oscar Pistorius fans.

It just seems wrong to me... whoever died, chances are there were people who loved them and people who didn't, and opening up a "public forum" but then only allowing certain views to be expressed is bullshit. They know what they're getting into with this stuff and if they don't have the balls to allow free-speech then they shouldn't pretend that they do. Celebrities on Twitter get offensive tweets all the time, but as long as those tweets don't break the rules, Twitter keeps their noses out and the celebrities know that nobody's forcing them to read them.

Like I said, I'm a big fan of the first amendment and this was grinding my gears all day and brought to mind an incident I saw on the news a couple of years ago... that prick pastor from Florida who trolls soldiers' funerals with his "God Hates F*gs" signs had rounded up his ignorant little posse and was about to go to work upsetting another family. However, when they arrived at the cemetery to preach their hate, they were greeted by an incredible sight...

Friends and neighbors of the dead soldier's family had anticipated their arrival and had rallied the local community to attend the funeral. The mourners were circled by hundreds of people who had never even met the deceased (standing a respectful distance away) singing hymns at the tops of their voices so the chants of the "protestors" couldn't be heard. Some of them were even dressed as angels with huge wings that obscured the bigots' signs.

When I remembered that image today, it dawned on me that THAT is the true intention of the first amendment... that those offensive and uncivil voices are not only allowed, but are actually necessary to a civil society to galvanize us into using our own voices to further the common good. Without that pastor, that soldier's family would have said a sad farewell to their loved one and that would have been that, but when they saw all those people assembled with the common purpose of drowning out the comparatively tiny voice of hatred, they saw a perfect example of what their boy had died defending and it gave them comfort that his death was not in vain.

Those founding fathers were pretty damn smart... do you think it's too soon to talk about how much Ben Franklin loved French hookers? wink

tense2
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^Well said Cleepers.

Oh and by the way....it's never too soon to talk about how good old Ben loved those french hookers.

Wonder if Toulouse ever captured that in a hidden painting somewhere.

cleepers
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^ Haha! thanks, dude.

If he did, It would surely be the most expensive (and probably grossest) porn in history!

NardDog
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I'd give you a rep Grillinnap but I can't!

And yeah, this dude made a tasteless joke about Buss and the Lakers, which was not cool at all.

Makes you Clipper guys look bad if you ask me, making stupid and tasteless jokes like that.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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cleepers makes a good point. society holds a certain double standard to cracking jokes at the expense of others while claiming that its too soon to crack jokes about certain people. cracking jokes about someone's death is known as dark humor. people were cracking jokes about whitney houston, michael jackson and ken caminiti minutes after they died. i bring up caminiti because he was an athlete. yet Dr. buss is off limits? you cant have it both ways. and dont give me the bs that "oh i didnt do that". in one way or another someone u know made a crack about their deaths and you reacted comically to it. so lets not get sanctified and righteous here.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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NardDog wrote:
Grillinnap wrote:
^ Didn't you make a tasteless joke about the Lakers franchise dying on the same day as Buss dying before the Clippers-Lakers game? Dude just passed away and your main concern is how soon is too soon to make jokes about him? And are you seriously comparing Buss' death to Houston's death? I bet you were itching post jokes in the comment box of ESPN.

I'd give you a rep Grillinnap but I can't!

And yeah, this dude made a tasteless joke about Buss and the Lakers, which was not cool at all.

Makes you Clipper guys look bad if you ask me, making stupid and tasteless jokes like that.

kind of like corn flakers fans cracking jokes about griffin getting injured in his rookie year huh, even laughing and saying "its the clipper curse" or when DTS' son died and you guys laughing about it calling him a crackhead. you guys can dish it but cant take the blowback. talk about a punk move. so if you are going to call out a fan base, look in the mirror before casting judgment. just saying

cleepers
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^ Thanks bullterrier. It's like these laker fans expect the entire world to be personally touched by the death of their owner, but it's open season on anyone who doesn't wear the purple and piss. You were spot on about Griffin's injury and Scott Sterling and they even talk sh*t about Bynum's knees now that he's on the East coast. If all they want to read is "RIP" and "GOAT" repeated 5,000 times, they should stick to their own websites.

Personally, I think the joke they should be concerned about is the joke of a product they've put on the floor this season with a $100,000,000 budget. They can try to take on the first amendment if they like, but the result will be the same as when they take on most other NBA teams... lakers lose.

NardDog
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You're cool.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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agreed. ill agree that buss died after having lived quite a life. but dont expect me to be "RIP to the GOAT owner of all time" any time soon. thats why they have lakers topbuzz, so they can remember all the titles dr. jerry buss' team won with the helping hand of the NBA. the only reason i havent cracked one of my comedic gems about buss' death is because its too easy to do that. im not personally touched so quite frankly it would have been only a matter of time i did that, but its too easy. plus the real joke is that the flakers still think they can make the playoffs lol.

Grillinnap
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bullterrierclipsfan1349 wrote:
Grillinnap wrote:
^ Didn't you make a tasteless joke about the Lakers franchise dying on the same day as Buss dying before the Clippers-Lakers game? Dude just passed away and your main concern is how soon is too soon to make jokes about him? And are you seriously comparing Buss' death to Houston's death? I bet you were itching post jokes in the comment box of ESPN.

cleepers makes a good point. society holds a certain double standard to cracking jokes at the expense of others while claiming that its too soon to crack jokes about certain people. cracking jokes about someone's death is known as dark humor. people were cracking jokes about whitney houston, michael jackson and ken caminiti minutes after they died. i bring up caminiti because he was an athlete. yet Dr. buss is off limits? you cant have it both ways. and dont give me the bs that "oh i didnt do that". in one way or another someone u know made a crack about their deaths and you reacted comically to it. so lets not get sanctified and righteous here.

If you read my later posts im this thread, you'd understand. There is no "having it both ways." Plenty of well-respected people like Buss were "off-limits" after their deaths. If you're talking about a society that holds double standards, then there's also a society that just doesn't give a ****. Again, there is really no comparison here. Buss was respected throughout his career as an owner. Whitney was a drug addict. Michael was a suspected pedophile. And now you bring up Caminiti? Hun? Dude was a steroid abuser. What was Buss' biggest criticism? Being a womanzier? Oh, you got me there! But hey, if you want to crack jokes about people's deaths especially if they were recent, that's you. But that's not me. I recently lost my grandmother.

If you wanted to joke about Buss because of how Flaker fans reacted to Blake Griffin's injury and DTS's son's death, then why be like them? Leave the unclassiness to Flaker fans. I think you and cleepers' desire to joke about Buss' death comes from your ill-feelings towards the Lakers, not necessarily Buss himself.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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they are only off limits to flakers fans. and while buss was respected for what he did regarding his flakers, he also lived a life of partying, drinking, smoking and women. nothing wrong with that, but people act surprised that he had cancer. you would have to be naive to think that none of the drinking and smoking had anything to do with that. i dont like to be like the classless flaker fans, but sometimes that is the only way they will shut the f*** up with all their classlessness. i dont have anything against buss, but to me when your fans attack another team's players or people close to the organization then you become fair game. trust me this is tame. i could do much much worse. but i wont because the man died, but i wont hold back from saying what i want to say. this may not be you, but im sure im not the only one on here who agrees with me

cleepers
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^ It's not even just about making jokes... some of the comments on espn referred to Buss' DUI arrest in 2007 and subsequent conviction. He was caught driving on the wrong side of the road near San Diego under the influence of alcohol and pills... bottom line, he could have easily killed a pedestrian, another driver or even the 23-year-old girl he had 'along for the ride'.

People pointed out these FACTUAL EVENTS as a way of saying that maybe he wasn't such a saint, and their comments were taken down by espn within SECONDS.

THAT was my original point/question... when is it ok for the whole truth about a deceased person to be talked about openly? ...does it depend on who that person was? ...how they lived their life? ...how many fans they had? ...and SHOULD it? I think not. Same rules for all... it's the foundation of democracy.

I didn't read a single article about Scott Sterling that DIDN'T mention his drug problem or the shooting death of his friend, and the comments I saw on message boards seemed to be relatively unfiltered on those subjects. Obviously, the Sterling, Houston and Jackson families were not afforded the same courtesy by media outlets as the Buss family received from espn.

@Grillinap, I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother... my condolences to you and your family. I'm assuming she wasn't famous since most people aren't, but if she HAD been, the chances are that the media would have talked about any possible blots on her character as well as all the good she'd done (as they do with almost everyone, from presidents to prostitutes). John F. Kennedy pretty much averted WW3 and saved civilization, but you still hear about his marital infidelities.

You've made the assumption several times that I want to joke about Buss' death. That's neither fair nor true... the first amendment guarantees me the RIGHT to make jokes... yet I haven't. I just think it's hypocritical for espn to judge who is 'untouchable' in a public forum and who is not, and to censor perfectly legitimate opinions that are based on fact. That's all I was trying to say.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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very well put cleepers.

cleepers
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^ Thanks, man... I appreciate your support.

I daresay we've both said things that each other has felt was uninformed, tactless or just plain wrong at times, but I'd never seek to gag your opinion and you've never tried to shut me up.

You are you and I am me... and as a society we need to deal with that. Too many of our problems arise from people trying to impose their will on others.

"Let it be" - Paul McCartney

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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^ yeah. i just dont like when others try to impose their opinion and censor what we can and cant say. is cracking a joke about jerry buss too soon? nope. its not our fault people sanctified him right after he died. so thats why i support your stance.

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