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Phu7
Post Subject: Butler for Ariza Trade Rejected by Sterling Post ID: 357408by Phu7 » Feb 25, 2013 - 11:53 AM PST
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http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... greed-Upon

Ariza would have been nice. I haven't seen a player really shut down Jcross but Ariza did an amazing job on him when we played at dc.



                
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Mistwell
Post Subject: RE: Butler for Ariza Trade Rejected by Sterling Post ID: 357411by Mistwell » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:22 PM PST
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Meh, it would have been about a push, and I'd rather not mess with chemistry over a push.

                
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realbull17
Post ID: 357412by realbull17 » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:23 PM PST
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they didnt want to upset our GM chris paul.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 357413by clipper*joe » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:30 PM PST
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I'm pretty sure CP3 pushed for that trade only to have DTS veto it.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 357414by Clippersfan86 » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:50 PM PST
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Like others said this trade is basically a wash. It would be categorized as "making a trade just to make a trade". Butler has the leadership, respect and experience factor over Ariza though. Butler's been playing well the last 3 weeks or so too. Kudos to Sterling for keeping the front office in check!

                
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hoopfanjd31
Post ID: 357415by hoopfanjd31 » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:52 PM PST
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Agree with this. Its not a huge upgrade, if its an upgrade at all, so better not to mess with the chemistry.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 357416by Clippersfan86 » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:56 PM PST
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Just checked the numbers... Ariza having a terrible year, worse than Butler. Not sure what the Clippers front office was thinking. Butler expires after next year anyways, no need to push him out the door unless it's for a great deal.

                
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The_Blake_Show
Post ID: 357417by The_Blake_Show » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:56 PM PST
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I was hoping this trade would have happened... Missed out but if you think about it's a positive thing Sterling denied the trade because of that chemistry factor and it shows that Sterling is more involved thinking championship.

Trevor Ariza is a free agent this offseason if the Clippers still interested...

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 357418by cleepers » Feb 25, 2013 - 12:57 PM PST
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My thoughts exactly.

                
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illastrate
Post ID: 357419by illastrate » Feb 25, 2013 - 01:10 PM PST
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Ariza has a player option next year for over 7M. Hard to see him not picking that up. Sterling actually was the voice of reason in all of this.

                
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uncool
Post ID: 357420by uncool » Feb 25, 2013 - 01:20 PM PST
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Would have added some D but took away some 3pt shooting... I think we need the shooting.

                
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phaded21
Post ID: 357422by phaded21 » Feb 25, 2013 - 01:44 PM PST
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We need the perimeter D more. Those 3's are killing us.

                
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phaded21
Post ID: 357424by phaded21 » Feb 25, 2013 - 01:59 PM PST
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illastrate wrote:
The_Blake_Show wrote:
I was hoping this trade would have happened... Missed out but if you think about it's a positive thing Sterling denied the trade because of that chemistry factor and it shows that Sterling is more involved thinking championship.

Trevor Ariza is a free agent this offseason if the Clippers still interested...

Ariza has a player option next year for over 7M. Hard to see him not picking that up. Sterling actually was the voice of reason in all of this.

Nick Young is a free agent this offseason too. I rather have him than either of these two.

                
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CP3Best
Post ID: 357426by CP3Best » Feb 25, 2013 - 02:15 PM PST
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Ariza sucks, Butler is perfect for us, just shoots lights out, LOVE HIM, he's clumsy on defense though.

                
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chonkyfire24
Post ID: 357428by chonkyfire24 » Feb 25, 2013 - 02:34 PM PST
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which was probably the reasoning behind the trade, offense for defense,

                
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Clipperfn4lf
Post ID: 357430by Clipperfn4lf » Feb 25, 2013 - 03:00 PM PST
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Any1 else notice when Cp3 sits on his hands the 1st quarter Butler lights it up for us.

                
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ClipsGForce
Post ID: 357431by ClipsGForce » Feb 25, 2013 - 03:05 PM PST
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I'm kind of glad this trade didn't go down. Ariza would be great if he was in his Lakers form, but right now he just sucking it up. I think everyone just underrated Butler defense a little bit, he do have to guard the best players of the opponent every night.

                
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clipperstown
Post ID: 357433by clipperstown » Feb 25, 2013 - 03:16 PM PST
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shoots lights out? yeah SOMETIMES he shoots well. most of the time it's inconsistent offense and turnovers on his part lol

                
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GhostShip
Post ID: 357435by GhostShip » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:06 PM PST
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I would have done the trade. i think going forward into playoffs we would need ariza and his defense against KD. Butler is strong and can push on KD but KD is so much faster and longer. Ariza is a very long defender he has a huge wingspan.

Butler usually only shows up in the 1st quarter anyway. We might as well get the better defender.

                
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clippersfan85
Post ID: 357439by clippersfan85 » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:30 PM PST
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I got to agree with Sterling on this one. Disrupting team chemistry is not worth it. I'm sure we will have more options in the offseason as far as trades go. Also we can now be considered a destination for veteran players so free agents signing for peanuts is also an option.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357440by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:32 PM PST
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clipperstown wrote:
CP3Best wrote:
Ariza sucks, Butler is perfect for us, just shoots lights out, LOVE HIM, he's clumsy on defense though.

shoots lights out? yeah SOMETIMES he shoots well. most of the time it's inconsistent offense and turnovers on his part lol

at least he has bits of offense. ariza doesnt even have that. at least not this season. butler is ok on D, ariza is a solid defender, not a great defender. so the trade would have been a wash at most.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 357443by CapsNClips » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:37 PM PST
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You guys are missing the most important part about the story, Donald Sterling made a decision that was soley based on winning, because Trevor Ariza makes less money than Butler and he decided chemistry and winning is more important, it doesn't matter whether you think Trevor is better that's not the point. I'm really happy he did this mainly because now I know he's committed and cares. This is awsome news

                
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clipperstown
Post ID: 357444by clipperstown » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:38 PM PST
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bullterrierclipsfan1349 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
CP3Best wrote:
Ariza sucks, Butler is perfect for us, just shoots lights out, LOVE HIM, he's clumsy on defense though.

shoots lights out? yeah SOMETIMES he shoots well. most of the time it's inconsistent offense and turnovers on his part lol

at least he has bits of offense. ariza doesnt even have that. at least not this season. butler is ok on D, ariza is a solid defender, not a great defender. so the trade would have been a wash at most.

It would have made us younger and a better defensive team. Id take that over butler's inconsistent jumpers. Jmho

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357445by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 25, 2013 - 04:39 PM PST
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^ well ive said it before, i believe his nephew is running the shot for DTS. i remember reading an article on SI which stated his nephew took over this season to a certain extent.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 357448by CP3Heliflopter » Feb 25, 2013 - 05:01 PM PST
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bullterrierclipsfan1349 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
CP3Best wrote:
Ariza sucks, Butler is perfect for us, just shoots lights out, LOVE HIM, he's clumsy on defense though.

shoots lights out? yeah SOMETIMES he shoots well. most of the time it's inconsistent offense and turnovers on his part lol

at least he has bits of offense. ariza doesnt even have that. at least not this season. butler is ok on D, ariza is a solid defender, not a great defender. so the trade would have been a wash at most.

Disagree Butler is not an ok defender but actually pretty abysmal(eye tests and stats make this pretty clear) while Ariza is far from a solid defender. Solid defender=no impact good or bad. Ariza is a huge net positive on defense. He is a borderline elite wing defender.

For reference Butler is the 332nd best defender in the league based on synergy sports. One of the worst in the league.... Ariza is the 51st best defender in the league based on synergy sports.

Offensively Ariza is doing pretty poorly but he was a decent offensive player in the past. I think it has more to do with being on shitty rosters with mediocre playmaking PGs if anything. Playing with CP3 I could see him going back to how good he was with the Lakers if not better.

                
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Amnesty_David_Stern
Post ID: 357449by Amnesty_David_Stern » Feb 25, 2013 - 05:06 PM PST
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Ariza plays solid D, or at least did during his time in Laker Land. However, since he was thrust into a larger role in Houston, New Orleans and now Washington, his shooting percentages and decision making have plummeted. I will tip my hat to Sterling on this one.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357452by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 25, 2013 - 05:30 PM PST
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agreed. @cp3heliflopter, his numbers on d are skewed since he has missed 25 plus games this season.

                
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ekker3
Post ID: 357454by ekker3 » Feb 25, 2013 - 05:48 PM PST
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butler >>> ariza

what the heck is chris paul trying to do? reunite all his old hornets teammates? just because CP says it doesnt mean it's the best option of the team. im sick of people nodding at everything he says. he's becoming bigger than the team itself. chill out CP.

cheers, DTS.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357455by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 25, 2013 - 05:54 PM PST
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agreed. the only friend of cp's i want on the clips is LBJ. lol

                
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Hooligans
Post ID: 357459by Hooligans » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:06 PM PST
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Of all the trade rumors, this is the only one that I liked. We've struggled defending the 3-point line and have gotten lit up by guys like Klay/Curry or Irving/Waiters, so I think I'd rather have Ariza's Defense over Butler's streaky Offense.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 357460by CP3Heliflopter » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:10 PM PST
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bullterrierclipsfan1349 wrote:
Amnesty_David_Stern wrote:
Ariza plays solid D, or at least did during his time in Laker Land. However, since he was thrust into a larger role in Houston, New Orleans and now Washington, his shooting percentages and decision making have plummeted. I will tip my hat to Sterling on this one.

agreed. @cp3heliflopter, his numbers on d are skewed since he has missed 25 plus games this season.

No his numbers are not skewed. He has always been a very good defender. I have watched him on the Hornets and other stats like defensive rating prove this. He is a Tony Allen type of player. Sucky offense, elite defense.

While Butler=average offense, really sucky defense, below average at everything else.

I can understand keeping Butler due to chemistry but if it was not for chemistry this would definitely be a good trade. Our perimeter defense sucks and upgrading to Ariza would help tremendously in that aspect while downgrading our offense a bit.

Overall, not a big deal but its silly to say Ariza sucks or Butler is way better than Ariza when it simply is not true. If anything its the other way around. Butler is a nice guy and all but he simply isn't good anymore since his injury or frankly even average.

                
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Keatonsays
Post ID: 357461by Keatonsays » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:18 PM PST
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glad dts rejected this. shows a true sense of loyalty to his players.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357467by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:32 PM PST
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thats your opinion cp3heliflopter. ariza isnt tony allen. hes not an elite defender. hes solid to good. we needed to add a knockdown shooter. our defense is fine when the effort is there. everyone talks about butler's injury, but ariza is also oft-injured. he hasnt been the same since he left the flakers.

                
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clippermitch
Post ID: 357468by clippermitch » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:36 PM PST
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Who knows if this deal was straight up. Caron makes more than Ariza and we could have gotten Jordan Crawford along with Ariza. They traded him to the Celtics for an injured Barbosa. Basically they dumped his salary.

                
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phaded21
Post ID: 357469by phaded21 » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:42 PM PST
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Caron is a better shooter, but he rarely gets to play in the 4th quarter. Ariza is similar to Barnes, having those to coming in for each other would of been nice.

                
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Letsgetthew
Post ID: 357471by Letsgetthew » Feb 25, 2013 - 06:51 PM PST
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Barnes has not played well in a while. He was bound to come down to earth. Caron frustrates me but he isn't really good shooter and Barnes has a tendency toward airballing

                
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clippersforlife33
Post ID: 357474by clippersforlife33 » Feb 25, 2013 - 07:58 PM PST
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are some of you actually disappointed that this deal didn't go through? wow my hat goes off to sterling on that one. if anything this is the best caron has been playing in a clipper uniform and you want to trade him for a player whos never been the same once he left the lakers to sign that huge contract with the rockets? so what if ariza is the better defender, it's not worth ruining our team chemistry. ariza doesn't have the ability to do many things that caron can like shooting, posting up, better free throw shooter, and has way more experience. this trade would not make us better and im really glad sterling didn't allow it. did some of you forget that caron was the first player to sign here before this team was considered elite.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 357475by cleepers » Feb 25, 2013 - 08:14 PM PST
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^ And played 11 playoff games with a busted hand... #TuffJuice

                
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tense2
Post ID: 357477by tense2 » Feb 25, 2013 - 08:42 PM PST
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I agree with your assessment of the two players....and so do these sites: http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?player_ids%5B%5D=362&player_ ids%5B%5D=205&season=2012&utf8=✓

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eca01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arizatr01.html

                
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worm
Post ID: 357479by worm » Feb 25, 2013 - 09:12 PM PST
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Agreed

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 357481by Clippersfan86 » Feb 25, 2013 - 09:16 PM PST
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You guys are wrong about Ariza this year and I've talked to Wizards fans today about it who have HATED him this year. A couple called him the worst offensive player in the league. Butler isn't "way" better than Ariza this year but he's noticeably better and more efficient. It's not a negligible gap. Butler scores more on much better efficiency. For a 5th option role player we need 3 point shooting and midrange shooting FAR more than we need a defensive SF. We have Barnes, Butler and Hill, all capable defensive SF's who have their moments.. why do we need another?

What we truly lack are shooters who are consistent and Butler is our 2nd most consistent long range shooter to Billups. Games where our guys can't hit a 3 we usually get destroyed. In other words Ariza doesn't address a need but makes us weaker in an area we are already pretty weak at. Barnes at this point is a better player than Ariza and Hill is a capable backup for another year. Remember most of our defensive lapses are at the guard spots, not the SF spot despite what people seem to be implying. It's Green, CP3, Billups and Bledsoe who have had their moments getting destroyed.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 357483by Clippersfan86 » Feb 25, 2013 - 09:18 PM PST
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Not to mention Butler is our 3rd vet who keeps the young guys in check and gives superb leadership and advice. The value of that stuff can't be stated enough. When Vinny cut his minutes Butler didn't say a word and continued to cheer on teammates. No thanks to Ariza.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 357484by Clippersfan86 » Feb 25, 2013 - 09:23 PM PST
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n terms of impact according to WS/48 it's his 3rd most impactful year of his career too. In February he's put up 13 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1 apg, 1 spg on great efficiency and improved defense in 10 games. Not bad at all and he seems to be rejuvenated since returning from a few days off with injury. In the last 4 he's put up 16 ppg on about 50 percent shooting.

                
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Andrew818
Post ID: 357498by Andrew818 » Feb 26, 2013 - 02:18 AM PST
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Not sure about this one.Ariza is a better defender with length but he has been riding the bench for the Wizards.I do think Ariza is better on D than Butler but Butler is the better shooter.Looking at our perimeter D we do need that defender but that's what Hill and Barnes are there for.Neither Hill or Barnes are a real threat from 3 so we kind of need Butler for that.

Chemistry wise I don't think it would have done much since Ariza played with Odom & Turiaf(LAL),Willie & CP3(NOH),Barnes & Jamal(NYK),and with Hill(ORL). He could probably fit right in.Chemistry wise I don't think it hurt's either team and it might actually help out the Wizard's locker room.If it went threw I would have been fine with it,now that it didn't I am still ok with it but it might have helped a little having another defender.

                
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Amnesty_David_Stern
Post ID: 357544by Amnesty_David_Stern » Feb 26, 2013 - 04:48 PM PST
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If Ariza is an elite defender, then Bledsoe is the best defender in the NBA

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 357549by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Feb 26, 2013 - 04:59 PM PST
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agreed. we would have been better off going after reddick or korver.

                
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