CP3 Acknowledges Difficulties In Halfcourt Offense

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renshaibob
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http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... rt-Offense

He is being very polite. but at some point i do believe the constant chatter about their limited plays and lack of in game adjustments is finally setting in and he is starting to lay the ground work for some changes and blame. I wonder who will be the next to follow CP.

I hope they wait till the year is over before they vent to Press and keep it polite like CP.

JahvonTheClip
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Atleast they realize their problem and look to fix it cause april is when the real season starts

GhostShip
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Half court offense is a reflection of the coach. Its either the coach has not implemented anything or the players are not running the system VDN has set in place. Either way thats on the coach. We win ball games off talent. Every analyst first comment is how our team does not know what to do in half court sets. Thats what worries me the most about this team is that in the playoffs the game slows down.

Not sure how he has waited this long to implement anything yet. VDN is not built to be a head coach and that is not a bad thing. He can be a good assistant its just to much for the guy.

cleepers
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Just a response to a question... like if somebody had asked him if he's concerned about FT shooting or rebounding or an older roster.

What should he say? "We're the best half-court team in the league"..?

What is this? The "Fire VDN" thread version 2.0?

Yawn.

gman
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Can someone explain to me the concept of "the game slows down in playoffs"

i know that defense wins you games. but is there a rule that states that teams need to slow down?

If we play D like we can we WILL run. our D Makes us go.

also if the games are refed differently (more physical contact) what chance do we have?? will ibakas foul now be a common foul!? or will blake get called for a foul for having the family jewels hit ibakas hand?

smittywerb
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The game slows down because teams start to ACTUALLY play defense and coaches begin to pull out all the stops and plays, which means no more running around and holding ball, or iso'ing, that will get you swept.

Playing harder defense = playing harder = fatigue = slower pace.

That run and gun and fast pace stuff does not work all the time in the playoffs, if that was the case then Dantoni would have his ring by now.

Letsgetthew
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The media backlash against us is in full swing unfortunately. I am definitely concerned about the playoffs if we can no longer beat heat, spurs or thunder. We just seem scared of them and come out tentative and sloppy. Also. What can be done to fix our offense in such a short time?

Silasie
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smittywerb wrote:
gman wrote:
Can someone explain to me the concept of "the game slows down in playoffs"

i know that defense wins you games. but is there a rule that states that teams need to slow down?

If we play D like we can we WILL run. our D Makes us go.

also if the games are refed differently (more physical contact) what chance do we have?? will ibakas foul now be a common foul!? or will blake get called for a foul for having the family jewels hit ibakas hand?

The game slows down because teams start to ACTUALLY play defense and coaches begin to pull out all the stops and plays, which means no more running around and holding ball, or iso'ing, that will get you swept.

Playing harder defense = playing harder = fatigue = slower pace.

That run and gun and fast pace stuff does not work all the time in the playoffs, if that was the case then Dantoni would have his ring by now.

Thanks for the explanation Smitty, I was wondering the same thing myself.

Voyeur
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I can't help but think we need to keep BG involved in the half court offense. In the OKC game, it seemed BG didn't even touch the ball the first few possessions. Everyone knew he was up for the game. OKC couldn't really stop him the last time they played. Instead, we started to look awful from the beginning. Our starting guards looked useless in the first half. Blake is improved in the low post. He's a good passer. I think it's time to entertain the idea we may have to go thru Blake a little more.

At the same time, Blake and the others need to set better picks, instead of slipping the pick all the time. Setting good picks can do a lot for an offense.

hoopfanjd31
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He actually said the team is "good" in the half court, but better in transition, which is undeniable. He didn't say the half court offense is bad. Nothing to see here. Move along.

david
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I agree- Blake is getting very, very good in the post now. And of course he is a good passer. He needs to get the ball more consistently down low. I personally rather see him get the ball in the post at least 1/2 the time in those "broken" possessions where the clock is under 7 seconds or so. Right now the guards take too much responsibility into their own hands at times. Chances are the ball goes into the post, a good shot is put up by Blake or on a kick out or pass to a slasher.

jarca
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Our star point guard knows it's a problem. The fans knew this since last year. Why hasn't the coaching staff address this? Oh wait we do have an offense, it's called Chris Paul. No need to design a system when you have the best pg in the game

Worldbthree
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I think more physical contact benefits the Clips as long as its called (or uncalled the same). Whatching the OKC game 1st half let OKC play but not the Clips, killed their pace. If you look at the 2nd half teams weren't even close to the bonus and the refs let them play (with some exceptions) and the Clippers came back.

82-0
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Not much sadly, considering the major problems with our offense are coaching and lack of a consistent spot-up shooting threat to space the floor and bail us out in broken possessions, neither of which can really be solved until the offseason. We're just going to have to ride out the second-round exit and make the final tweaks that will elevate this team to REAL contention.

GhostShip
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The crazy thing is CP3 was known as one of the best half court orchestrators in the league, before becoming a clipper. It shows VDN has implemented no system when the best pg in the league who thrives in the half court has a offense that struggles in his strength. Even when we win games you can see we have a issue. Our roster should actually be very successful in the half court. We have a post man in blake great shooter and athletes all pieces to be successful. Its sad that our head coach might be the one to hold us back in playoff time. How many other teams do your hear analyst say they like the team but dont trust the head coach. This should be our last year with VDN

ClipsGForce
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I can guarantee that if the Clippers fall within short of the NBA final, you would see Vinny gone. I'll be amaze if we even make WCF with the lack of half court offense. In a way, some experts were right. We expend so much energy and work extra hard in running our plays (or lack thereof) to score a basket while teams like Spurs, OKC, and Heat can run a simple play and still manage to get to the basket much easier. Eventually, we'll run out of energy and play awful defense. Too bad VDN is not a magician like his mentor.

Clippersfan86
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I changed the title because it's a bit misleading. It's CP3 giving a small quote, nobody else on the team really said this.

smittywerb
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That's why people were saying he was a perfect with the Lakers. with a core of CP3/Kobe/Bynum, the offense would have probably flowed like water with Kobe and Bynum getting touches in the post.

toohipcliptoslip
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smittywerb wrote:
GhostShip wrote:
The crazy thing is CP3 was known as one of the best half court orchestrators in the league, before becoming a clipper.

That's why people were saying he was a perfect with the Lakers. with a core of CP3/Kobe/Bynum, the offense would have probably flowed like water with Kobe and Bynum getting touches in the post.

There is room for only one bulldog in the yard. Kobe told Howard more or less "Bit*h this is my team" CP3 is not Kobe's bit*h. If Kobe could coexist with another ego he and Shaq would have been the best EVER

toohipcliptoslip
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Not to say fire VDN or not but with Pop or SLOANE where would we be?

wessleejr
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Silasie wrote:
smittywerb wrote:
gman wrote:
Can someone explain to me the concept of "the game slows down in playoffs"

i know that defense wins you games. but is there a rule that states that teams need to slow down?

If we play D like we can we WILL run. our D Makes us go.

also if the games are refed differently (more physical contact) what chance do we have?? will ibakas foul now be a common foul!? or will blake get called for a foul for having the family jewels hit ibakas hand?

The game slows down because teams start to ACTUALLY play defense and coaches begin to pull out all the stops and plays, which means no more running around and holding ball, or iso'ing, that will get you swept.

Playing harder defense = playing harder = fatigue = slower pace.

That run and gun and fast pace stuff does not work all the time in the playoffs, if that was the case then Dantoni would have his ring by now.

Thanks for the explanation Smitty, I was wondering the same thing myself.

Me too i keep thinking what slow down means. are they going to just walk in the court instead of running? Smile

jarca
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we have more talent and athleticsm than the spurs yet we have a worse record. just sayin

KP
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every team would be better with pop... he is the best coach in basketball

with sloan we would be worse imo... sloan's teams dont have fun... he's never excelled with athletic players... players like crawford, Deandre, and bledsoe would disconnect

outside of the top 5 (pop, rivers, carlisle, monty, and thibs) I cant really think of a coach I think would do a better job than VDN tbh

people who say fire vdn never have suggestions on who would be better... and when they do its laughable

GhostShip
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KP wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Not to say fire VDN or not but with Pop or SLOANE where would we be?

every team would be better with pop... he is the best coach in basketball

with sloan we would be worse imo... sloan's teams dont have fun... he's never excelled with athletic players... players like crawford, Deandre, and bledsoe would disconnect

outside of the top 5 (pop, rivers, carlisle, monty, and thibs) I cant really think of a coach I think would do a better job than VDN tbh

people who say fire vdn never have suggestions on who would be better... and when they do its laughable

His best player in that era imo was a athletic freak in karl malone.

ClipsGForce
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KP wrote:
toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Not to say fire VDN or not but with Pop or SLOANE where would we be?

every team would be better with pop... he is the best coach in basketball

with sloan we would be worse imo... sloan's teams dont have fun... he's never excelled with athletic players... players like crawford, Deandre, and bledsoe would disconnect

outside of the top 5 (pop, rivers, carlisle, monty, and thibs) I cant really think of a coach I think would do a better job than VDN tbh

people who say fire vdn never have suggestions on who would be better... and when they do its laughable

I agree. This is why some fans are sometime short sighted. They only see the results, but not the body of work. It's easy for us to criticize VDN because we watch him game in and game out. We don't watch other team games, the same way we watch ours. I"m sure coaches, beside Pop and Jackson, from other teams have a deficiency that make people goes crazy.

Look at Miami's team. Their fans were skeptical of Erik Spolesta coaching to the Final, but he did it anyways. Us fans, should give him a chance before saying fire VDN. If we do fire VDN, who would be a better replacement and explain to us why.

82-0
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Favorites at least to come out the West, if not winning it all. And that's in spite of the minor holes remaining on our roster.

Pop would find a way to make a scrub like Willie Green look like prime Ray Allen, and the new uptempo style he's implemented in San Antonio would be perfect for this roster.

Sloan's offense would ironically be a million times better for CP3 than Vinny's "Chris Paul offense."

Neither one would tolerate the horrendous perimeter D or how this team just rolls over for the elites.

82-0
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Brian Shaw

Phil Jackson

Erik Spoelstra

Mike Budenholzer

Mike Malone

Jacque Vaughn

Frank Vogel

Ettore Messina

Rick Adelman

Stan Van Gundy

Jeff Van Gundy

David Blatt

Rimas Kurtinaitis

Brad Stevens

Shaka Smart

GhostShip
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Repped High Quality Post

Coaches that are better then VDN who are coaching currently

P.J. Carlesimo

Tom Thibodeau

Rick Carlisle

George Karl

Mark Jackson

Kevin McHale

Frank Vogel

Erik Spoelstra

Rick Adelman

Monty Williams

Mike Woodson

Terry Stotts

Gregg Popovich

Tyrone Corbin

Doug Collins

Doc Rivers

Larry Drew

82-0
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KP wrote:
with sloan we would be worse imo...

Absolutely laughable statement, but par for the course from Vinny's delusional fanboys.

Quote:
sloan's teams dont have fun...

Proof?

Quote:
he's never excelled with athletic players...

Horseshit. He went to two NBA Finals with an athletic freak of nature in Karl Malone, and went to another conference finals (and plenty of playoff appearances) with Andre Kirilenko, who had crazy athleticism in his prime.

Meanwhile, if you want to see a coach who doesn't excel with athletic players, look no further than Vinny Del Negro. In Chicago, he ruined Tyrus Thomas' development and kept benching Derrick Rose for no reason. In LA, he's stunted DeAndre Jordan's growth and, despite being handed one of the most athletic teams in the league, has failed to get out of the second round of the playoffs. He has one of the best big men and most athletic players in the league in Blake Griffin, yet he takes the ball completely out of Blake's hands for long stretches of every game in favor of Crawford isos or other low-percentage shots.

Seems to me you're just another Vinny fanboy, spinning facts and outright lying in a vain attempt to make one of the worst coaches in the NBA look good.

CapsNClips
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Every team in the league has something they wish they could do better like Miami fans probably wish they could rebound and the Grizzlies are arguably the best half court team in the league but their fans still wish they could hit 3's and have an Iso player. We are what we are and our problems can only be fixed in the offseason so lets just ride with what we got and pray that teams can't stop our fast break. I like our chances with CP3.

GhostShip
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The point is that CP3 strength before coming here was half court now its our weakness. Coaching

smittywerb
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Ehhhh, it's different in our case.

In MIA's case, they will suffer at rebounding because they play small ball. In the grizz case, they don't have a wing who can stretch the floor so they will suffer in there big man oriented offense.

But us, we have the best floor general in CP3 with one of the best supporting casts in the league but we struggle in the half-court. We have 2 strong athletic bigs in DJ and BG but we can not rebound efficiently. We have 2 1st team defenders in our frontcourt in CP3 and Billups but we struggle wit 3pt defense. I can go on but you get the point.

It's a PERSONNEL and IDENTITY problem with other teams. With us, we have what we need but for some reason it's not clicking.

KP
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well we all know you are just a VDN hater so I'll just say this

karl malone is no athletic freak of nature... he didnt move extremely fast, he didnt jump high, what exactly makes him an "athletic freak of nature" because he is big and not clumsy???

karl malone was about as athletic as tim duncan... or magic johnson... they are all hall of famers but their smarts and their size play alot more into why they were great then their athleticism

last year VDN took the clippers further than they had ever been in the playoffs... won a game 7 on the road and did good enuff to make cp3 feel like if chauncey didnt get hurt we would have won it all... thats success man

lmaooo@ comparing kirilenko to players like bledsoe and crawford

you either just dont get it OR you just dont want to get it

their is a reason d. will didnt enjoy his stay in utah... just like there is a reason NOBODY wanted to go play in utah... just like their is a reason Jerry Sloan is STILL not coaching a team

KP
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82-0 wrote:
KP wrote:
outside of the top 5 (pop, rivers, carlisle, monty, and thibs) I cant really think of a coach I think would do a better job than VDN tbh

Brian Shaw

Phil Jackson

Erik Spoelstra

Mike Budenholzer

Mike Malone

Jacque Vaughn

Frank Vogel

Ettore Messina

Rick Adelman

Stan Van Gundy

Jeff Van Gundy

David Blatt

Rimas Kurtinaitis

Brad Stevens

Shaka Smart

Frank Vogel is a great coach... unfortunately he is not available... much like any other name worth anything on this list

but the fact that the van gundy's our on this list along with names like brian shaw who has ZERO experience is just ridiculous... you might as well say you are a better coach lmaoooooo

CapsNClips
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I think we should keep our fast pased roster for next season, because you can teach X's and O's but you can't teach athleticism. Imagine our transition game with more set plays called out by Vinny or whoever we get. We would be almost unstoppable. I'm not opposed to keeping VDN because our players are already comfortable together and if Vinny can spend the majority of the offseason learning from other coaches it could really be the perfect storm.

82-0
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X's and O's win in the NBA, raw athleticism does not.

smittywerb
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To say Karl Malone wasn't athletic is crazy. I don't know how many peoe he dunked on, but he didn't rely on his athleticism much because he had an a+ post game

CapsNClips
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82-0 wrote:
CapsNClips wrote:
I think we should keep our fast pased roster for next season, because you can teach X's and O's but you can't teach athleticism.

X's and O's win in the NBA, raw athleticism does not.

Oh yeah I forgot Spoelstra is an X's and O's genius. Their entire offense relies on plays called by Spoelstra because LeBron isn't the most athletic player of all time.

smittywerb
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CapsNClips wrote:
82-0 wrote:
CapsNClips wrote:
I think we should keep our fast pased roster for next season, because you can teach X's and O's but you can't teach athleticism.

X's and O's win in the NBA, raw athleticism does not.

Oh yeah I forgot Spoelstra is an X's and O's genius. Their entire offense relies on plays called by Spoelstra because LeBron isn't the most athletic player of all time.

Only time x's and o's work is when the two teams are almost evenly matched as far talent. Since no one really comes close to the heat as far as talent, they are able to just line up and play. Only time spo actually calls a play is if wade and Lebron aren't scoring, so he'll call an occasional screen for a shooter or put bosh in the post. Other than that. Run screens for Lebron and wade and iso

KP
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Im not saying he wasnt athletic

He was a professional athlete lol... im saying his athleticism wasnt exceptional, he had nothing on a player like shawn kemp... thats what an athletic freak of nature looks like

But whateva.... these guys are listing people like jeff van gundy and mike woodson as better than vdn... thats ridiculous

82-0
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CapsNClips wrote:
82-0 wrote:
CapsNClips wrote:
I think we should keep our fast pased roster for next season, because you can teach X's and O's but you can't teach athleticism.

X's and O's win in the NBA, raw athleticism does not.

Oh yeah I forgot Spoelstra is an X's and O's genius. Their entire offense relies on plays called by Spoelstra because LeBron isn't the most athletic player of all time.

Apparently you don't watch the Heat, because they actually run a defined offense with actual sets and crisp ball movement that utilizes their best players' skills.

It's like night and day compared to Vinny's horrible "Chris Paul offense" that minimizes CP3's strengths in the halfcourt, leads to countless broken possessions, and is easily shut down by the elite teams of the league.

I would take Spoelstra in a nanosecond over Vinny.

82-0
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I don't think Woodson's better than Vinny, but you are nuts if you don't think JVG is better than him.

JVG has been to the Finals (with a Knicks team that had no business being there on paper, might I add). He's only missed the playoffs ONCE in his entire career. Only once in his career has he coached a team that wasn't top 5 in the league in defensive rating. He was always one of the best coaches in the league at scheming and getting the most out of his players.

His resume absolutely shits all over Vinny's, and it's getting really tiresome seeing all these delusional homers try to claim Vinny is better than proven, elite NBA head coaches. You would all be laughed off just about any other NBA-related website for even hinting at these ridiculous comparisons.

KP
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So why is it no one wants to hire jeff van gundy??

Everyone knows jeff still wants to coach yet.... vinny can get fired... hired....and extended before jeff can even find a coaching job lol

If jeff was anything like you just made him up to be he would be coaching right now

KP
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Wtf... you just listed at least 5 people who have zero experience as a head coach and said they were better than vinny

Hypocrit much??

As i said... you might as well say YOU are a better coach lol

smittywerb
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KP wrote:
smittywerb wrote:
To say Karl Malone wasn't athletic is crazy. I don't know how many peoe he dunked on, but he didn't rely on his athleticism much because he had an a+ post game

Im not saying he wasnt athletic

He was a professional athlete lol... im saying his athleticism wasnt exceptional, he had nothing on a player like shawn kemp... thats what an athletic freak of nature looks like

But whateva.... these guys are listing people like jeff van gundy and mike woodson as better than vdn... thats ridiculous

I'm going to ignore the vinny comment because this isn't a vinny thread lol

But Karl wasn't Shawn kemp athletic. He wasn't too far off though. He just preferred not to be flashy

GhostShip
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Karl Malone was a athletic freak. It is that simple maybe he couldnt jump as high as Shawn Kemp doesn't mean he wasn't a athletic freak. The way he ran the floor was amazing to watch with a player that big and strong.

Maybe KP only remembers Karl in his one Laker season. LOL

CP3Heliflopter
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I have to agree with you here. Spo is a grossly underrated coach. When I watch the Heat there are are actual sets that are run. Actual adjustments and screens being set to help players get open looks. During crunch time we often have a hard time getting good looks against good defensive teams and our offense is mediocre in the half court and when CP3 is off the court due to lack of plays being run, no real direction, etc.

CapsNClips
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CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Quote:

Apparently you don't watch the Heat, because they actually run a defined offense with actual sets and crisp ball movement that utilizes their best players' skills.

It's like night and day compared to Vinny's horrible "Chris Paul offense" that minimizes CP3's strengths in the halfcourt, leads to countless broken possessions, and is easily shut down by the elite teams of the league.

I would take Spoelstra in a nanosecond over Vinny.

I have to agree with you here. Spo is a grossly underrated coach. When I watch the Heat there are are actual sets that are run. Actual adjustments and screens being set to help players get open looks. During crunch time we often have a hard time getting good looks against good defensive teams and our offense is mediocre in the half court and when CP3 is off the court due to lack of plays being run, no real direction, etc.

Both of you guys proved my point exactly. Spo used to be a terrible coach but oh look they get a crazy athletic freak in LeBron James and what do ya know Spoelstra starts to get better at utilizing his players and in the offseason was contacting coaches on how to get better. By your guys's theory Spoelstra was the driving force in the Heats Championship not LeBron being literally the most unstoppable player. Vinny can learn just like Spoelstra learned. Athleticism is our identity so lets not throw it in the trash because you guys have a slight hunch that maybe somehow we might lose in the playoffs although we haven't played a single playoff game yet. Cool lets be just like the Spurs who lost in the playoffs last year.

82-0
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Seriously? He's not coaching right now because he doesn't want to, or at least hasn't publicly declared interest. If he said he wanted to come back next year, the competition for his services would be pretty steep.

82-0
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Many of the people I listed are long-time assistant coaches seen as prime candidates for a head coaching job. They have the experience that Vinny lacked before being hired by Chicago.

Others I listed were former NBA head coaches, currently-employed NBA head coaches (since you were comparing him to the likes of Thibs and Pop), and proven head coaches from college and Europe.

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