Learn to Set a Damn Screen, Please

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3pc
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why can't clips set a decent screen? It would open so much plays and give defender a hard time on D.

griffin and dj needs to start setting screens, cp3 will eventually find them.

see how much trouble we have defending against screen such as spurs,okc and now the grizz. Brizz was setting double screens. Cp3 running into gasol, having trouble guarding at ti es cause always having to look over shoulder

smittywerb
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I don't know why vinny doesn't call more screens.

lobcityhawaii
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We don't set good screens compared to the top teams. The skill of setting good screens is easier said then done. I guess our players aren't taught that well.

cleepers
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That's just stupid. If the screens are being set badly (which they are) how can you blame a coach for not calling screens?

That's like blaming the coach for not calling an iso-play when we run an iso-play and the player doesn't make the shot.

We're setting picks all the time, just not very well. I give Blake a little slack because he's thinking "roll or pop?", but DJ has no offense anyway, so he might as well put somebody on their arse by becoming a brick wall.

Will you have anything at all to say when a new coach arrives? Or will you just blame him for player errors too?

smittywerb
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cleepers wrote:
smittywerb wrote:
I don't know why vinny doesn't call more screens.

That's just stupid. If the screens are being set badly (which they are) how can you blame a coach for not calling screens?

That's like blaming the coach for not calling an iso-play when we run an iso-play and the player doesn't make the shot.

We're setting picks all the time, just not very well. I give Blake a little slack because he's thinking "roll or pop?", but DJ has no offense anyway, so he might as well put somebody on their arse by becoming a brick wall.

Will you have anything at all to say when a new coach arrives? Or will you just blame him for player errors too?

When I say screens, I mean a play where we have one of our shooters or someone come off a pick, not Chris Paul and whoever doing a pick and roll. And I rarely see vdn call a play and have some one shoot off a screen. I think you misunderstood what I meant by screen. That's my fault for not being specific lol.

cleepers
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^ I think you're actually missing the point.

Pretty much EVERY screen that is ever set is designed to give a player an opportunity to either shoot an open shot or make a clean pass to an even more open shooter.

The fact that our guys don't do it well is a legitimate gripe from the OP. Notice the word "decent" in his post... every NBA player knows the value of setting a screen for his teammate and has done since he was 10 years old. It is a fundamental of the game.

Unfortunately, our pretty and potent offense sometimes seems to be so intoxicating to our players that they forget how to give the necessary, "decent" effort on both ends that is the very engine of our spectacular offense.

Any team that requires their coach to "call" screens is in trouble.

smittywerb
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It's a difference between calling a play that requires a screen (what I am referring to) and running a pick and roll. I know that be and Dj suck at setting picks (or screens) on a pick and roll. I'm talking about one of the reasons why we can't seem to get our shooters open, and it is probably the lack of play calling.

I see it around the league. Coaches run screens for their shooters and then pass it down low or shoot it. That's what I'm speaking on. But I get what you're saying, how can we set a screen for a play like that if we can't even set a decent pick for a pick and roll.

Please don't confuse me with the vdn bashers like you and other "older" members have. Just because I criticize him doesn't mean I hate the guy.

ClipperSam
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Actually it's called coaching!

Players are supposed to Be called out when they don't set appropriate picks and it doesn't matter who you are. That's what makes POP a true coach!

cleepers
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smittywerb wrote:
cleepers wrote:
^ I think you're actually missing the point.

Pretty much EVERY screen that is ever set is designed to give a player an opportunity to either shoot an open shot or make a clean pass to an even more open shooter.

The fact that our guys don't do it well is a legitimate gripe from the OP. Notice the word "decent" in his post... every NBA player knows the value of setting a screen for his teammate and has done since he was 10 years old. It is a fundamental of the game.

Unfortunately, our pretty and potent offense sometimes seems to be so intoxicating to our players that they forget how to give the necessary, "decent" effort on both ends that is the very engine of our spectacular offense.

Any team that requires their coach to "call" screens is in trouble.

It's a difference between calling a play that requires a screen (what I am referring to) and running a pick and roll. I know that be and Dj suck at setting picks (or screens) on a pick and roll. I'm talking about one of the reasons why we can't seem to get our shooters open, and it is probably the lack of play calling.

I see it around the league. Coaches run screens for their shooters and then pass it down low or shoot it. That's what I'm speaking on. But I get what you're saying, how can we set a screen for a play like that if we can't even set a decent pick for a pick and roll.

Please don't confuse me with the vdn bashers like you and other "older" members have. Just because I criticize him doesn't mean I hate the guy.

that's fair enough man, but I have the game on my laptop here... are you really going to make me go through the entire 4th Q detailing the plays where we got Jamal open (off a screen) for a shot and he didn't take it?

Tonight, it was mostly his fault... I'd say about 70% of them were good looks. Sometimes, the screens aren't so good, so maybe I'd advise only shooting on 20% of the shots.

But the bottom line is... you can't say "why doesn't the coach call for more picks?".

cleepers
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Sam... there is only one Popovich, and we don't have him. I know you've listed your favorites before, but they are all either unemployed, happily employed, or doing worse than Vinny.

I don't know what else to tell you.

ClipperSam
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^ there needed to be more picks off the ball to get more players involved. Jamal Crawford was well defended because of horrible ball movement and weak side picks. There needed to be a double and triple screen for the shooter. This would have opened up the floor and given Jamal much easier shots. They were clogging up the lanes and staying off Lamar. They were looking for Jamal and Closing the Gaps. Great planning on Memphis!!

smittywerb
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Oh yeah, I'm not saying he doesn't call them at all, but more wouldn't hurt. Like it's some plays where we ISO ourselves into a brick wall when we could have an off-ball screen to open the lanes for penetration or for a timely dish.

But I'm just speaking in general, not this particular game. We lost this game because of rotations and Marc Gasol's strong 3rd quarter. He had 11 points and 3 steals in that quarter.

cleepers
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Oh, Sam, Sam, Sam... they are a GREAT defensive team. The looks Jamal got are the best you're going to get against a team like that. If you don't make them - and even worse, if you don't TAKE them - you won't win.

The key to a good offense is taking what the defense gives you and maximizing it. Our guys second-guessed their own abilities.

it's pretty simple, really.

smittywerb
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I have to agree. BG is so good now because he finally stopped hesitating on his jumper and started attacking the defender more in the post. Confidence is KEY for a player in the NBA.

cleepers
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smittywerb wrote:
cleepers wrote:

that's fair enough man, but I have the game on my laptop here... are you really going to make me go through the entire 4th Q detailing the plays where we got Jamal open (off a screen) for a shot and he didn't take it?

Tonight, it was mostly his fault... I'd say about 70% of them were good looks. Sometimes, the screens aren't so good, so maybe I'd advise only shooting on 20% of the shots.

But the bottom line is... you can't say "why doesn't the coach call for more picks?".

Oh yeah, I'm not saying he doesn't call them at all, but more wouldn't hurt. Like it's some plays where we ISO ourselves into a brick wall when we could have an off-ball screen to open the lanes for penetration or for a timely dish.

But I'm just speaking in general, not this particular game. We lost this game because of rotations and Marc Gasol's strong 3rd quarter. He had 11 points and 3 steals in that quarter.

Personally, I think we lost the game because we're mentally weak right now. The way our offense was clicking in the 1st Q against such a defensive powerhouse should have given us a 12-point lead after 12 minutes.

DJ failed time and again to protect the rim and combined with uneven officiating, it sapped our guys' will.

It's happened way too much recently... nothing to do with a system, but everything to do with a mindset. We've all seen how this team is unbeatable when THEY think they are.

It's not about the roster, the coaching or the opponent... when this team gets their swag back, they're unbeatable.

smittywerb
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I think everything you said goes hand in hand. You can't have confidence as a team when you know you can barely run a play or stop a team from shooting the lights out. A boxer doesn't go into a ring and say "I hope he doesn't figure out I have a weak chin." That will get you knocked out. Boxers go out into the ring and have a mindset that they are going to fight "their" fight. Just like basketball, we have to go out here and play "our" game, but besides the pick and roll and fast breaks, what is our "game"?

Swag comes with knowing you can go out there and do what you have to do. I think the team knows its weaknesses and that other teams have them figured out also. We need something new to give us confidence. Not saying it's a new coach, new player, new system, etc. But something new has to come along and energize our players. You can see it, it's like we go out there and just play while the other comes with a gameplan.

And other teams see that. They see the lack of confidence we have. Other players and coaches have problem being physical with us. Other coaches and players have no problem putting their best defensive player on CP3 and creating a mismatch at another position. They are confident that they have us figured out, and to be honest, they do. We have been figured out.

cleepers
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^ Our identity used to be the same as Miami's... that we're going to disrupt EVERYTHING you try to do and then shame you with fast-break offense and ball movement. It's the defensive intensity that's left us... I don't hear Barkley spouting about Miami's halfcourt offense.

I honestly believe that when we get that back, we're as good as the champs.

smittywerb
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Miami did something similar to what SVG did in Orlando with Howard, mask there weaknesses.

Even though Lebron is playing lights out, he still lacks a post game. His face up game is ehhh, but he has no post game. And Wade, he was always a slasher who could hit a jumper occasionally so he has the same problem.

What did Spo/Riley do to solve. Sign a bunch of shooters and space the floor out so now you can win the 1 on 1 matchups because of the athleticism. And SVG did the samething to create 1on1 matchups for Howard because of his lack of post game.

Maybe we need to do something like that. I agree, we're not as good defensively.

cleepers
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^ Nah... You're overcomplicating things... Miami didn't necessarily have a glut of shooters last year. THIS year, yes... but they're better on paper now.

LAST year, they were a humbled team with a chip on their shoulder who played their nuts off defensively. They stopped relying on shooting and got ALL of their offense from fast breaks or great ball movement.

We are capable of doing the same, plus we have the cleverest guy in the game running our show. It just seems like we lack the mental/emotional switch to make us hungry.

I kind of hope the media talks some sh!t about our stars, because I can see that we do have TWO legit game-changers now.

Blake has grown up... I just want him to go far enough that it hurts enough to motivate him for next year. Im not so concerned with how far we go, but I want a f***** slugfest to get there.

smittywerb
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On the Heat, naw man. They're main lineup was Chalmers-Wade-Battier-Bron-Bosh. That's 3 floor spacers in Chamlers-Battier-Bosh. Maybe they do not spread the floor as much this year, but they did it last year too. I mean, if it wasn't for Mike Miller, the Thunder would have probably completed that comeback in game 5 and extended the series. And it was because of their great defense they were able to run. They were at the bottom in rebounding but towards the top in TO's.

On the Clips, yeah, we need something to push our guys. The doubt from the analyst and media isn't doing it, maybe if other players start talking trash that would push us. I don't know, but we need a push.

And yeah, Blake is coming into his own. Dude is a beast. He just needs to get nastier. I feel like he doesn't attack with the same force as he used to because he is scared of injury or getting slapped. Forget that, I want to see some Mozgov dunks in the playoffs! When they back off of him, he needs to use that triple threat offense and abolish any defender.

CP3Heliflopter
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Miami has better players and a better coach. We are not as good Miami. We have loss 6 straight against elite teams.

KP
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my 2 cents...

I think the responses by cleepers in this thread are on point

we definitely seem weak mentally right now

and lebron DEFINITELY has a post game... to say he has no post game then follow that with with his face up game is eehhh is crazy to me... thats basically saying that in a half court offense lebron is just a spot up shooter lol

wessleejr
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This is what i noticed, Memphis and San Antonio are good of this, Did VDN doesn't learn from Coach Pop. This is what killing us. Sad

KP
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ok there seems to be some confusion in here... let me see if i can clear things up

a pick and a screen are 2 different things... while similiar, they ARE different

we run ALOT of pick and rolls... we run a pick and roll offense and cp3 is a pick and role player... so it makes sense... we run set plays based off the pick and roll

a screen is kind of like a pick except the purpose is to create space for a player who does not yet have the ball, it is also a way to wear down a defender... players like reggie miller, rip hamilton, durant, and steph curry have all made a living coming off of screens... teams that run alot of screens typically run a motion offense

the only player on our roster who really excels at coming off of screens is crawford... and crawford is on record saying he likes iso's better than screens OR picks

now at the nba level you have to do "some" of everything... thats why youd see the lakers do pick and roll sometimes even tho they ran the triangle offense

so sometimes you will see the clippers throw screens... but we do not do it all that often because it is not the type of offense we run and is not the type of offense our personel excels at

imo we simply need to go thru blake in the post more... the only players who would benefit from more screens are barnes, green, and maybe hill... and they are all players that I do NOT want to see taking a bunch of shots lol

CP3Heliflopter
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CP3 would benefit a whole lot from screens too....

smittywerb
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Lebron has no post game. He hits an occasional fade away, that is not having a post game.

And his face up game is average because it depends on mostly his athleticism, except for when he pulls up and hits a jumper. To sum it up, if Lebron gets past his defender it's not because of his footwork.

smittywerb
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So you understand why I say "screen" and "pick and roll" instead of using screen for both, good. Now, I know majority of our offense will be the PNR because we have the talents of CP3 but DO WE HAVE TO RUN IT INTO THE GROUND EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT WORKING?

And we have Butler who can definitely hit a mid-range jumper and Crawford who can hit 3's. So why not run off-ball screens more when they are on the court, only thing I see is ISOs most of the time.

CP3Heliflopter
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Lebron definitely has a post game. Not sure what you are talking about.... Its not great but its more than sufficient. Mostly composes of simple post moves not "just fadeaways".

KP
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nah, cp3 likes to play slow so he can see the floor

screens are more so for people who are looking to catch and shoot... pass 1st players dont typically benefit from screens

like if you watch boston when healthy... paul pierce will come off a screen but rondo will not

and those few times a player like cp3 does come off the screen he will catch the ball and survey the defense eliminating the space created from the screen

KP
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yeah I def understood why you said screen and pick and roll instead of using screen for both

and yes butler can make a mid range jumper but he is not the type of player who excels off the screen

there is 3 types of shooters... spot up shooters, off the dribble shooters, and off the screen shooters... most players can do 1, a good shooter can do 2, but only the best of the best can do all 3

for example... ray allen is great off of screens and spotting up, but not so much off the dribble... iverson was great off of screens and off the dribble, but not so much spotting up

well butler is great off the dribble and spotting up, but not so much off of screens... imagine his old, slow ass running around then catching and shooting he might air ball hahaha... he is best off the dribble thats why he camps in the corner catches and takes 1 or 2 dribbles and shoots the mid range jumper most times, thats his game

we do run screens for crawford but he likes iso's and habits are hard to break so he tends to catch the ball turn and instead of shooting he starts to dribble and try to break his man down which is essentially still an iso

once billups is fully healthy I think he can help us by coming off of more screens tho

KP
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I dont know man... miami runs most of its offense thru lebron in the post and the whole reason it works is because lebron commands a double team

the won their rings off of doing that last yr... bron was out there looking like baby olajuwon imo

if he had no post game NO ONE would double him in the post

and when he gets in the post his objective is to get to the rim not shoot a fade away jumpshot... thats why his efficiency has went up so much, he has finally realized that every time he shoots a jumpshot his defender breathes a sigh of relief lol

he doesnt do all kinds of intricate post moves but thats because he doesnt have to... the guys strong enuff to guard him arent fast enuff and the guys fast enuff arent strong enuff

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