Chauncey Billups vs Willie Green - Who Should Start?

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Who would you rather have start at the 2 spot billups or willie Green?
Chauncey Billups
29%
 29%  [8]
Willie Green
70%
 70%  [19]
Total Votes : 27

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GhostShip
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I would rather have Willie Green start. He can shoot close to the same percentage as billups and he plays much better defense. Billups looks like he is running in quick sand out there.

Our defense has gotten worse since he has returned to the lineup. Its not all his fault but I think he plays a big part in it. He is just not the same player anymore.

Just wanted to get an idea what other think.

CapsNClips
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I would rather have Billups starting but I want Billups to play like Green. Just sit at the 3 and shoot it, no dribble penetration, no pick n roll crap. He's our best pure shooter and he needs to do just that.

I'm also not opposed to Green starting because he's like a little secret weapon that nobody thinks is going to do anything.

sz123456
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Absolutely Willie Green. I have tons of respect for Chauncey fighting back from that injury, but we play better with Willie.

clipnasty
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I brought this up in another thread and think it is a valid question.

It is hard to say Willie should start over the Chauncey just because of his history. However, Chauncey just is not helping us. He isnt hitting shots, he seems to be forcing the action, and CP seems to take a back seat a little when Chauncey is playing.

The question then becomes, if Willie starts, would Chauncey play at all? Obviously Jamal comes in at 2, and hopefully Bled will be back to come in at one, and so where does Chauncey fit?

It is a little concerning that we do not have a rotation figured out so close to the playoffs, but this was seemingly a concern from the day we signed all these solid guys.

CapsNClips
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Don't forget Billups in the playoffs is a completely different player. He won't be shooting 30% from the field and he will be making winning plays throughout the game. I'm giving Chauncey the benefit of the doubt and I'm going to let him get into game shape before I label him as useless.

clipnasty
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Says who though? I get where you are coming from, which is why it is so difficult.

I do believe he will make shots if he is healthy, but m bigger concern is how he fits in with CP. Right now, CP lets Chauncey run the offense more in the 1st quarter, and things just do not run well when that happens.

CapsNClips
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clipnasty wrote:
CapsNClips wrote:
Don't forget Billups in the playoffs is a completely different player. He won't be shooting 30% from the field and he will be making winning plays throughout the game. I'm giving Chauncey the benefit of the doubt and I'm going to let him get into game shape before I label him as useless.

Says who though? I get where you are coming from, which is why it is so difficult.

I do believe he will make shots if he is healthy, but m bigger concern is how he fits in with CP. Right now, CP lets Chauncey run the offense more in the 1st quarter, and things just do not run well when that happens.

CP has faith in Chauncey for a reason, he gets to practice with him every day and he knows what Chauncey can bring us in a playoff series. I think we all wonder if Willie is a better fit because when Willie was starting we were winning games left and right and we were the best team in the league. So that might affect our opinions because frankly we haven't been as good with Billups.

I believe we can be better with Big Shot although the stats prove me wrong.

Battlegun
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So after everyone here hated on Willie for the past few months and wished Chauncey would come back, you now want him starting over Billups?

I personally think Chauncey should get more time in the starting unit. He's only played 19 games so far this season.

FightOnRon
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I dunno,,,, glad I don't make the call. The thing is, Chauncey is good (an better then Willie) when he is on and he and Willie are the same guy when he is not except Willie seems to be more intense. I could be the fact that Chauncey is hurt a lot and only plays like what,,15 minutes a game in order to preserve him and hasn't even played much? But that is part of the problem,,he doesn't play much because he gets hurt a lot.

I have to put my faith in CP3,,,I am banking on our quarterback to know his guys so I am happy with whatever makes him happy.

hoopfanjd31
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This.

Silasie
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I know its a stupid thing to say but can't we have someone better than both of them. What I mean is that it is not a very inspiring choice which just goes to show that come the off season it would be nice to have a new SG. Along with our new SF and Center Wink

clippersfan85
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Whoever can provide better defense in the starting unit, currently that's Willie Green. I'm sure there will be games that make more sense starting Chauncey due to the matchup. In the playoffs its certainly possible that Chauncey will need to play back up PG. Waynes did a good job of that last night though.

Until Chauncey is 100% Green should start.

Clippers_FTW
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I did not submit my vote because I dont believe either should start. Here are my feelings. During the playoff's you should put your best unit out on the court. I belive our starting 5 should consist of Chris Paul ,(JAMAL CRAWFORD) , Caron Butler, Blake Griffin, and DeAndre Jordan. When Jamal Crawford is on the court with Chris Paul everything opens up. Jamal (for me) {with chris paul on the court} has been a better shooter than Chauncey Billips... He is also a threat to drive and can get to the line and shoot just as good from freethrows as billips.. I understand Chauncey was a pointguard his whole career but Jamal has been making the better passing plays this year for sure. Billips can come off the bench with Bledsoe as a 2 guard (which is what he'd be playing anyways in the starting unit). Him and Bledsoe can share the duties. Matt barnes and Lamar Odom can complete the 8 man rotation. Right now we are trying to win and I just dont see us being as good with Green or Billips starting. Jamal Crawford is taller, faster, plays with more energy, and has that killer instinct. Start Jamal Crawford. Put him on the court with the starters and we become elite.

CapsNClips
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I agree, him starting takes a load off of Blake and CP to score every time down the court. He's also our best half court player.

clipnasty
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Well, JCross staring sure is an interesting approach, assuming Bled is healthy.

FightOnRon
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Makes too much sense,,never will happen.

clippyclip
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^ Problem with Jamal starting at the 2 is he gets torched by other starting 2s. His offense is always great (or at least good) no matter who's guarding him, but he's better suited defensively for the second unit. Coming off the bench also lets him destroy opposing second units.

For Willie vs. Chauncey, I was actually thinking that last night how much better it was with Willie in. He cuts more than Chauncey and plays better D. Chauncey has already said he prefers playing the point, so I think him playing off the bench with Bled makes sense. They can both handle the responsibility, especially when Bled plays out of control - I think more than anybody on the team he could benefit most from being on the floor with Big Shot's calming ways.

Clippers_FTW
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so.. Billips does a better job on defense than Jamal? Remeber what people are saying.. Bench doesnt play as much in the playoff's.. so.. I dont think him torching other teams benches would hold true. Starters play heavy minutes in playoffs.. Jamal should start.

clippyclip
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Clippers_FTW wrote:
clippyclip wrote:
^ Problem with Jamal starting at the 2 is he gets torched by other starting 2s. His offense is always great (or at least good) no matter who's guarding him, but he's better suited defensively for the second unit. Coming off the bench also lets him destroy opposing second units.

For Willie vs. Chauncey, I was actually thinking that last night how much better it was with Willie in. He cuts more than Chauncey and plays better D. Chauncey has already said he prefers playing the point, so I think him playing off the bench with Bled makes sense. They can both handle the responsibility, especially when Bled plays out of control - I think more than anybody on the team he could benefit most from being on the floor with Big Shot's calming ways.

so.. Billips does a better job on defense than Jamal? Remeber what people are saying.. Bench doesnt play as much in the playoff's.. so.. I dont think him torching other teams benches would hold true. Starters play heavy minutes in playoffs.. Jamal should start.

Nope, that's why I think Willie should start.

Clippers_FTW
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I'm not sure bro. I don't think Willie is an impact player. Right now do I belive he should start over Billips??? Yea... But I belive Crawford should start during the playoffs.

clippermitch
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Anyone know what's the team's record when Willie starts? Chauncey has played and started 19 games. So Willie must have started around 50 games. My guess he's probably 20 games over .500.

Willie doesn't take shots from anybody, he plays defense, and he does what he's asked. He's a pro!

But if Chauncey is healthy and playing like he did the last time we played the Lakers, then you gotta start Mr. Big Shot!

sz123456
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The best this team has looked in franchise history was in December with Willie Green as our starting 2. We shouldn't over think this. Chauncey is not a 2, he's old, and he's injured.

Voyeur
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A month ago I would have said Chauncey BIG TIME.

Now I'm not so sure. Chauncey will always be the better all around player, but he's said himself he's more comfortable in the PG position. I also know Paul would rather have Chauncey because it allegedly takes some pressure off him having his mentor there. But maybe Paul needs that pressure. All indications are he's played better with someone else at SG than Chauncey...at least on a consistent level.

And Green is healthy. He's younger. He's quicker. Frankly, he even looks bigger out there. As much as I hate to say it, he's better defensively.

Despite his low production...and there WILL be times he'll drive me crazy...history says we play better overall with him starting than with Chauncey.

I'm sorry, I'd have to say Green's my starter right now...

...however, I'd LOVE for Chauncey to prove me wrong, especially in the playoffs.

And no, we should not start Crawford. He's a our Vinnie the Microwave Johnson. He is our instant offense of the bench. But he can also be a chucker than can take us right out and commit WAY too many turnovers. He's fine right where he is.

TheThinkingSomething
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Even now, regardless of how he has been playing, Chauncey is the only player that can pull up for a three during a fast break and miss and I wont be mad at all. His reputation is MORE than enough to carry him through this slump. A lot of it, too, looks like him being out of shape as he gets sweaty faster than anyone at the start of halves.

That being said, perhaps the league has adjusted to the two point-guard lineup, as it doesn't seem to be working for NY anymore either. If this is the case, then Willie would be the choice but otherwise I'd keep betting Chauncey turns it around.

Clippers_FTW
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He's a "Chucker" when he's on the floor with Odom, Hollands, Hill, and sometimes Bledsoe.... Where else is the offense going to come from? When he's out there playing with the starting unit he's "not" a chucker... He's a producer... Be it points, steals, or assists. Willie green does not produce like Jamal Crawford. Start Jamal Crawford.

Clippers_FTW
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I'm going to go ahead and respond with some facts.... since you said he commits "WAY" too many turnovers.. Well Chris Paul (33.2mpg) is at 2.23 TO's per game and Jamal Crawford (29.6) is at 2.03... Eric Bledsoe is at 1.94 (only .07) less than Crawford so looks like Crawford's turnover's are on par with our top pg's on the team (he also commits less turnovers than our Starting western conference allstar Blake Griffin whom is at 2.30)... I'm going to attack the word "chucker" with 2 parts... #1 with shooting percentage which is at .440 (with taking a lot....

Please log in to view the entire post.

Clippers_FTW
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Steals

Jamal Crawford...: 1.06

Chauncey Billips..: 0.58

Willie Green........: 0.33

Clippers_FTW
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3 point percenage

Jamal Crawford:0.380

Willie Green.....:0.388 (without creating his own shot)

Chauncey Billips:0.355

Chris Paul.........:0.377

Caron Butler......:0.379

Now immagine if Jamal just sat in the corner like Willie and shot 3's while Chris Paul drives and kicks it to him when he's wide open.. Scary stuff bro

sz123456
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^^Should Ginobili start too?

Voyeur
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Don't forget turnovers.

I love Jamal. We need his production. Off the bench. He does produce points. That's what sixth men are SUPPOSED to do. Produce in a hurry. If we only had low production people off the bench that would be a huge problem. He also excels with isolated, one-on-one plays...which is not necessarily beneficial to the flow of an offense.

Clippers_FTW
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I've visited the turnover issue my friend.. re-read my post

Clippers_FTW
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Dont care, he's not on the Clippers

Voyeur
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I didn't realize you were J Cross' agent.

When you have to compare his turnovers to ACTUAL point guards, it's a problem. It's the PG's job to dish and sometimes the pass goes awry. But surely you know the difference between Paul's TO's and Crawford's? Crawford's are downright ugly. Far too many are when he's being a little too fancy with his dribbling behind the back or between his legs, only to lose the ball. I don't mind when he turns the ball over trying to pass. But c'mon...he doesn't average enough assists to warrant those kind of turnovers.

As far as Blake's turnovers? Most stars in the league, who touch the ball as often as Blake, who draw as many double teams as Blake, will turn the ball over.

I appreciate that Jamal averages more than one steal a game. But your missing the point. You look at the numbers and think 'obviously he must start because his numbers are clearly better than the other SG's'....problem is those numbers don't represent his overall defense. They don't represent HOW he gets those points (thru ISO's and difficult shots). They don't indicate how much the perimeter defense improves with someone like Willie (maybe not by much, but obviously some). They don't suggest better offensive chemistry at all. Sometimes having spot up shooters is better for an offense than a one-on-one play. Don't get me wrong, Jamal can spot up too. But let's face it, he's more comfortable trying to break ankles.

You do understand the purpose of a sixth man, don't you? If you put nothing but the highest producing players into the starting lineup, where does that leave our bench?

sz123456
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Clippers_FTW wrote:
sz123456 wrote:
^^Should Ginobili start too?

Dont care, he's not on the Clippers

Fair enough. In any case, Jamal doesn't fit as a starter. That's not who he is. They tried that in Portland last year and failed miserably. He's an unconscious scorer that works well with offensively deficient role players.

Clippers_FTW
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Voyeur wrote:
Clippers_FTW wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and respond with some facts.... since you said he commits "WAY" too many turnovers.. Well Chris Paul (33.2mpg) is at 2.23 TO's per game and Jamal Crawford (29.6) is at 2.03... Eric Bledsoe is at 1.94 (only .07) less than Crawford so looks like Crawford's turnover's are on par with our top pg's on the team (he also commits less turnovers than our Starting western conference allstar Blake Griffin whom is at 2.30)...

I didn't realize you were J Cross' agent.

When you have to compare his turnovers to ACTUAL point guards, it's a problem. It's the PG's job to dish and sometimes the pass goes awry. But surely you know the difference between Paul's TO's and Crawford's? Crawford's are downright ugly. Far too many are when he's being a little too fancy with his dribbling behind the back or between his legs, only to lose the ball. I don't mind when he turns the ball over trying to pass. But c'mon...he doesn't average enough assists to warrant those kind of turnovers.

As far as Blake's turnovers? Most stars in the league, who touch the ball as often as Blake, who draw as many double teams as Blake, will turn the ball over.

I appreciate that Jamal averages more than one steal a game. But your missing the point. You look at the numbers and think 'obviously he must start because his numbers are clearly better than the other SG's'....problem is those numbers don't represent his overall defense. They don't represent HOW he gets those points (thru ISO's and difficult shots). They don't indicate how much the perimeter defense improves with someone like Willie (maybe not by much, but obviously some). They don't suggest better offensive chemistry at all. Sometimes having spot up shooters is better for an offense than a one-on-one play. Don't get me wrong, Jamal can spot up too. But let's face it, he's more comfortable trying to break ankles.

You do understand the purpose of a sixth man, don't you? If you put nothing but the highest producing players into the starting lineup, where does that leave our bench?

Only reason I would place Willie in there would be for the defensive purposes which is more than enough. So I will agree with you with that point alone.

SamMays
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As I recall, during out 17-game winning streak the starting lineup was CP3, Green, Butler, Blake and DJ...

I had feared Chauncey wouldn't return as the same player who left and that has proven to be true. Still, you have to give him the minutes to see how far back he can come from that devastating injury... If he's right, he's our best bet and it takes a lot of play to see if he can be great again.

If it sounds like I'm on both sides of this issue, I am. It's a very, very tough call... I wouldn't, however, expect Chauncey to do something in the playoffs that he can't do in the regular season.

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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I never thought I would say this but I'll Green over Billups, considering how Chauncey has looked since coming back. Chauncey's been one of my favorite players for years, but he's definitely not the same player since returning from his injuries.

what_up_clipnation83
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I'll start Willie as this season we've been better offensively and defensively with him in the lineup.

Since Chauncey has been in the lineup our offense and defense has been declining.

I say we go to what was working, but vdn won't bench Chauncey for Willie, so it's not even worth discussing tbh.

Clippers_FTW
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Vote has changed to Willie Green.... Started last 2 games... Won last 2 games.

marten81
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I am sadly changeing to willie too.. that steal on joe johnson was nice Very Happy

BACON
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Doesn't matter, just give Green more minutes. If Billups has too much pride, start him but limit the minutes.

ohMEohMy!
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Chauncey just isn't mobile enough to guard guys on the perimeter anymore. Willie Green is more athletic, and is just enough of a shooter to make teams pay.

CP3Heliflopter
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Willie has been playing well. He has a lot younger legs than Billups so he can play better defense. I say Willie. Billups has been too inconsistent.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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willie should definitely start. he is a better defender than billups. he can actually stay with his man

TheDude
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I wish it wasn't the case, but I tend to agree with you. Perfect world, BigShot becomes his old self and plays big minutes as the starter throughout the PO's...But what we've seen so far is a guy who is a full step slower than last year and it's worse because he's not adjusting to how much slower he is now....He keeps thinking he can get to a spot but he can't and it becomes a turnover or bad shot.

Billups could be a calming presence on the second team if Jamal were to start once we hit the PO's. We'd sacrifice some defense but it's still probably better because more often than not, he would be guarding a back up SG or PG instead of Kobe, Iggy, Harden, Klay type guys.

lobcityhawaii
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Willie deserves to start and probably should. He was the starter when we had the 17 game win streak.

But do you guys trust Willie over Billups in the playoffs and 4th quarters?

To end games I like, CP3, Crawford, Barnes, BG, DJ/Odom (depending on who's playing better, matchup, etc.)

CapsNClips
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Yep, I've officially changed my mind and Willie should definitely start over Billups. Him in the lineup brings back good memories of winning tons of games.

toohipcliptoslip
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Dilemma wrapped in a conundrom (sp)

I could live with Willie starting. He can't create his own shot but his shot is back and he's $$ from the wing He will command more than Vets Min if he contiunes. ??$3 Mil?? Barnes will get MLE if we have one. Willie won't start this year. Billups is gone. Three injuries in two years?

This is not our year, next yr is. BG still is raw and will be 50% better. DJ will be worth at leats $8 Mil maybe $10. I guarantee it will be Stockton/Malone all over again. JERRY SLOANE!

Core -- BG, DJ, CP, Crawford, Barnes. A winning starting Line Up but save some for dessert aka Bench. Bledsoe is a dilemma. I'd love to keep him but we don't have the minutes. He should start somewhere. If we can play him as SG great but $10mil. I hate letting him go but we can't guarantee minutes. CP will sign MAX

Wayans looked good. Maybe he'll pan out CHEAP

DJ, BG, ??, WG CP bench ???, ???, Barnes, Crawford, Wayans. This is a cheap line up and there is cap room for a couple of decent players.

The big question HOW DO WE BEAT miami? The thunder should be a fart in the wind compares to us but the Denver Moose Nuggets may be a problem

toohipcliptoslip
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I forgot. The '60's hit again.

CB has had three injuries in two years and it ain't over. He's going to retire.

Jeff Hornecek (sp) of the Utah Jazz with Malone/ Stockton/ Sloane.

These are career numbers but in even his last yrs he was putting up career numbers and he couldn't create his own shot.

FG % 0.496, FT% 0.877, 3PT% career 0.403 best year 0.478 He was a pure shooter

Compare these to Willie Guns' numbers. He's beefier than Jeff and Cheaper.

Does anybody want to start CB? Throw Sloane into the mix. CP3 is better than Stockton, BG will be as good as Malone, DJ will be as goot as that lasy Texas MF and Guns is almost as good as Jeff.

CAN YOU SMELLLLL WHAT JERRY SLOANE IS COOKIN'?

toohipcliptoslip
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pps. With CP3 setting him up he should be a MF

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