Is CP3 Our Real Head Coach, is This Conducive to Winning?

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Silasie
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I saw this on Hoopworld

CLIPNATION asks Alex Kennedy..........Do you think vinny del negro getting canned after this season and who would be great coaches to help elevate clippers?

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-with-alex-kennedy-32713#7euJUxqLtQ5 LwHi8.99

Alex Kennedy

It really depends what Chris Paul wants. The franchise is going to do whatever it takes to appease Paul as they try to re-sign him to a long-term deal this summer. I'm not sure what the future holds for Del Negro, who is coaching with his future up in the air.

On one hand, there are some people who don't think the Clippers can win a title as long as Vinny Del Negro is their coach. They can go deep in the postseason, but they're not winning a title with Del Negro at the helm. These people believe that the Clippers need to go after one of the big names like Phil Jackson or Stan Van Gundy so that the quality of their coach matches the quality of their personnel.

On the other hand, there are some people who believe that Del Negro is perfect for the Clippers because he's not someone that micromanages or overcoaches. Would Paul like to play for someone like Van Gundy, who is going to bark at him and control everything, or does he prefer playing for someone like Del Negro, who gives him his freedom and lets him run the show? I've had several L.A. players tell me that Paul is basically the head coach of that team. Does Paul prefer Del Negro because he can do what he wants? Is that arrangement conducive to winning?

I don't know what the future holds for Del Negro, but I know Paul will have a big role in the decision.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-with-alex-kennedy-32713#7euJUxqLtQ5 LwHi8.99

I know a lot of this has been discussed before but I found the bit where Alex Kennedy asks if CP being able to do what he wants is conducive to winning very interesting.

What do you guys think?

FightOnRon
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I think the first paragraph is spot on. Assuming DTS is making money right and left now with total sellouts and all the crap that is now being sold now with the LAC logo or the number 3 or the number 32, he is going to do whatever he needs to to keep CP3 and the money train rolling,,,if that means CP3 has input on his coach, so be it. Will that if fact be a detriment,,who knows This is a business to many, a sport to the rest.

CP3Heliflopter
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Paul would still have plenty of freedom under Van Gundy. Look at the freedom diva Dwight had under him. Van Gundy and his system helped Dwight look better than he really was. This is what a good coach can do. Giving a PG freedom does not mean you don't run plays.

Silasie
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What style of coach did CP3 have at the Hornets and how did that work? Anybody know?

clipnasty
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Jeff Van Gundy's name never comes up, but he could work as well. I live in the Bay Area, and Mark Jackson is always saying how JVG taught him everything he knows. I think Jackson is a douche, but you cannot argue that he has done a great job with the Warriors. They are in my opinion massively over achieving.

smittywerb
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A little bit of everything, pnr, off ball screens, isos, motions, but mainly the offense ran through David west.

A little bit of everything. But the pick and pop with David and cp3 was nearly unstoppable.

clipnasty
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Byron Scott then Monty Williams.

CPs best season in NO was arguably with Monty Williams, who is considered to be an up and comer around the league.

We need a coach with some defensive schemes and at least has some X and Os to offer on offense.

Clippersfan86
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Actually CP3's all time great seasons of 07 and 08 were under Byron.

smittywerb
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Yeah Byron was a good coach. He just had bad rotations and wouldn't play certain players. Like he refused to play Thornton and dc.

ekker3
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this board seems to revolve around firing VDN

CP3Best
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I hate our coach, cause his idea of offense is giving the ball to CP3, and when he's doubled we're playing tag around halfcourt, and then someone is forced to take a terrible shot, or a stupid turnover.

ClipsGForce
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I'm actually in wait and see camp. I'll resolve my judgement by the result of our playoff runs. I think people here are being too harsh on VDN. He's a good coach and yes he have flaws, but give him a chance to prove himself and see how his styles would result in the playoff. Remember guys, he was the student of Coach Pop (everyone's favorite coach).

ClipsGForce
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Don't you think it's up to the players as well. Should they have a clear sense that maybe a drive to the basket is better than shooting a three's? Don't put too much blame on VDN, our players, the veterans , should have known that.

CP3Heliflopter
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clipnasty wrote:
Silasie wrote:
What style of coach did CP3 have at the Hornets and how did that work? Anybody know?

Byron Scott then Monty Williams.

CPs best season in NO was arguably with Monty Williams, who is considered to be an up and comer around the league.

We need a coach with some defensive schemes and at least has some X and Os to offer on offense.

Arguably? His best season was in 07-08 and he had a monster year in 08-09 but was gimpy in the playoffs. He had mediocre seasons with Monty and had most success with Byron Scott. Not Monty's fault though the Hornets did not have a very good roster and CP3 was injured/coming off a serious injury.

prokreation
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YUP. Agree.

Pat Riley was known as an intense manager who was a control freak. MULTIPLE Championships with different teams.

prokreation
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OR Bailout 3 pointer by Jamal Crawford that is two feet behind the arc...

WE HAVE NO F****** SET HALFCOURT PLAYS WHEN IT COUNTS. Its just Give it to CP3 for the high pick and roll. THAT'S IT.

cleepers
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smittywerb wrote:
Silasie wrote:
What style of coach did CP3 have at the Hornets and how did that work? Anybody know?

A little bit of everything, pnr, off ball screens, isos, motions, but mainly the offense ran through David west.

A little bit of everything. But the pick and pop with David and cp3 was nearly unstoppable.

Nearly unstoppable, but it still didn't get them past the 2nd round.

cleepers
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http://firevdn.topbuzz.com

The URL's available, David wink

clipper*joe
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Van Gundy went away from Howard more often than not...Especially in the 4th qtr. I am of the opinion that the shooters Howard had around him, made him more than the coach. I will say though, Van Gundy pushed Howard to concentrate more of defense and rebounding. Van Gundy struggled to get Howard to play his system. And Howard was very vocal about having the offense run through him more. Life with each other wasn't as great as some like to think.

I think CP3 will have more of a problem with SVG being CP3 is about having more control.

hoopfanjd31
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It does, which is why I'm visiting much less frequently than I have in prior seasons. Just not worth it to me to read the same old stuff over and over again.

smittywerb
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cleepers wrote:
smittywerb wrote:
Silasie wrote:
What style of coach did CP3 have at the Hornets and how did that work? Anybody know?

A little bit of everything, pnr, off ball screens, isos, motions, but mainly the offense ran through David west.

A little bit of everything. But the pick and pop with David and cp3 was nearly unstoppable.

Nearly unstoppable, but it still didn't get them past the 2nd round.

Yeah, because George shinn and Jeff bower were too cheap to put talent around cp3/dw. Why you think they traded Tyson chandler. And then they lost to the eventual champions in te second round, who they took to 7 games. Yeah, that was a good year. Sucks they had to play the spurs in the second round.

I got one for ya, the hornets pnr > clippers pnr lol

smittywerb
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Dude, no one has spoke about firing VDN for a while. If anything, we have been ragging on the players for playing so soft and unmotivated. This is the first VDN related thread in a while, and no one in this thread hasn't really came out and said get rid of VDN.

cleepers
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^ When Blake's hitting those 15-18 footers (like last night), there's no comparison. West made a lot of those jumpers, but NEVER did he go to the rim like Blake.

Bottom line is, CP3 went to the second round 1 of his 6 years as a hornet. So far as a Clipper, he's batting 1.000... and Blake hasn't begun to hit his prime yet.

Vinny or no Vinny, CP3 has never had it so good... and he knows it.

smittywerb
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clipper*joe wrote:
CP3Heliflopter wrote:
Paul would still have plenty of freedom under Van Gundy. Look at the freedom diva Dwight had under him. Van Gundy and his system helped Dwight look better than he really was. This is what a good coach can do. Giving a PG freedom does not mean you don't run plays.

Van Gundy went away from Howard more often than not...Especially in the 4th qtr. I am of the opinion that the shooters Howard had around him, made him more than the coach. I will say though, Van Gundy pushed Howard to concentrate more of defense and rebounding. Van Gundy struggled to get Howard to play his system. And Howard was very vocal about having the offense run through him more. Life with each other wasn't as great as some like to think.

I think CP3 will have more of a problem with SVG being CP3 is about having more control.

SVG was a genius. He knew that Howard physically talented but lacked finesse. So what he do, put a bunch of shooters around Howard and forced teams to play him 1on1 (Heat anyone?). Without the shooters in LA, Howard has been exposed.

Silasie
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smittywerb wrote:
ekker3 wrote:
this board seems to revolve around firing VDN

Dude, no one has spoke about firing VDN for a while. If anything, we have been ragging on the players for playing so soft and unmotivated. This is the first VDN related thread in a while, and no one in this thread hasn't really came out and said get rid of VDN.

Agreed, the origin of this thread is not about hating on Vinny it is about his relationship with CP and how that works and if that is the best thing for the team.

cleepers
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Nonsense. Mike Smith called out a "brilliant" play last night where CP3 was doubled at half court, lobbed it in to Blake a couple of feet off the elbow, Blake had defenders running at him but had his choice of shooters and he rifled a pass into Jamal in the corner.

I'll take that shot every time from any one of our 2-guards if there's not a defender within 10-feet of them.

That time, Jamal missed the shot... but not executing the play doesn't mean there was no play to be executed.

david
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^^That was a great on-the-fly play. I'd take that play anytime, and even if the shot was missed I would never complain.

The problem is when the opposing team choose to leave a guy like DJ/Odom/Hollins open, and the Clippers are unable to find them off of the double team (or they are unable to get open). Or once that guy gets the ball, he is unable to put up a high % shot (e.g. Odom shooting a jumper) near the end of the shot clock. So that is something that needs to be improved.

cleepers
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^ That's where the non-shooters need to drive then either lay it up or kick it out to the open man. I see a lot of indecision from some of our guys. That half-second thinking about the play allows a defender to slide over and take a charge.

Personally, I think a lot of this nonsense-talk about "lack of plays" and "lack of defensive schemes" hurt this team. We're top 8 in the league in both offensive and defensive ratings right now, but we were actually top 4 earlier in the year before I saw our guys overthinking things.

Sometimes, the best coaching is just to allow basketball players to play basketball. Watch the other team more than your own, see where you're being hurt and make the appropriate adjustments to nullify the other team's most powerful weapon. The game at MSG was a perfect example of this.

Side-note: Knicks are unbeaten since our "pathetic" home performance against them and Miami went on to win another 24 straight games after they "embarrassed" us. Not directed at you, David, but I think a lot of posters are being WAY too hard on this team and this coach smack in the middle of an historic season.

smittywerb
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EXACTLY!

cleepers
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^ I'm all for getting Popovich... any idea how we actually DO that?

Maybe we can also assemble a roster of this year's W/C all-stars.

roll

tense2
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Yep. Key words...."Historical Season". Unfortunately, some people let their over zealous pre-season expectations blind them sometimes.

It's been a great year for the team so far. Let's see just how historical this turns out to be for the Clippers.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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CP3 probably is the #1 coach on this team. Same goes for Lebron or D Wade in Miami, Kobe in Lakerland, KG in Boston, D12 when he was in Orlando and other top shelf PG's in the NBA. Fact is your PG is basically your QB, and like in the NFL, the QB is out there to pick the plays, read the defense and coach the team. Our PG sets up the plays, is out there to find the open man, make the right passes and be vocal about what's going on in the game.

CP3 is a born leader, like others in the NBA. He's intelligent and collective enough to run this team if we need it.

cleepers
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^ Done.

jarca
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How many all star n MVP for fisher??? Lol

Agent0
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smittywerb wrote:
Silasie wrote:
What style of coach did CP3 have at the Hornets and how did that work? Anybody know?

A little bit of everything, pnr, off ball screens, isos, motions, but mainly the offense ran through David west.

A little bit of everything. But the pick and pop with David and cp3 was nearly unstoppable.

David West led the team in FGA but the offense certainly was not run through him

Quote:
Fisher isn't a PG. He's really a SG
Disagreed, Fisher isn't a primary playmaker, but he's a PG. He knows how to manage a game, get people in their spots and make the right passes. There's a false idea that every PG must be a playmaker, but I'm not sure it is true.

Oscar was never the defender Jordan was, and I hope this comment is taking into account the inflation of his rebounding ability by pace. He would be seen as better for winning more, but his individual career scoring would be lower, and Kareem would be looked at as the main guy.

In terms of comparing players, I mean teams win. Give the Spurs Bonzi Wells and the 07-08 Hornets Manu Ginobili and the Hornets are the ones in the WCF and even possibly the finals that year vs Boston. Talent wins, the 07-08 Hornets overachieved in comparison to their talent because of the brilliant play of Paul, West and Chandler, though mainly Paul. They weren't a championship caliber roster though.

The Clippers last season arguably overachieved to most people in the first round. I've never understood people getting on players for not winning when they have no business winning; when it would be a failure for the stars on the opposing team to lose to them.

kdawg
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CP always going 1 on 5 and not starting his move till 5 seconds left on the 24 second clock is a big problem. CP cannot rise enough to always get a good shot in that amount of time and when the defense knows what he wants to do. Only the hated Kobe can get a decent shot in that situation. They need to run an offense and not do CP going 1 on 5.

Agent0
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Well, Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, Wade sometimes, basically guys that have that height and length advantage going for them.

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