Do You Want Vinny Del Negro to Stay or Leave? (P. 2)

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david
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Thanks- yeah I think this way it makes it more interesting. I also noticed that there was one user who voted and never had a post (cp3kills), so I've made a new change as well ensuring that a member must have posted at least once in the forum in order to vote.

clipper*joe
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divinebeast wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

So now you admit that Howard had untalented players to maximize Howard's talent? Isn't that what I've been arguing all this time with you? That Stan needs a center to be successful? So now the players are untalented once Howard is gone but when he's there, SVG's principles don't rely on anything other than guys following orders and going where they're told to go? Which is it?

I've been consistent but you keep going back and forth.

high PnR and dumping the ball to Howard as 4 guys sit behind the arc is NOT being creative. That's been SVG's offense since he got to Orlando.

VDN was being facetious. He was paying CP3 a compliment.

"Back in November, when Los Angeles was engulfed in System Overload the week Brown was dismissed and D'Antoni hired, Los Angeles Clippers coach Vinny Del Negro was asked which system he deployed.

"Chris Paul," Del Negro said.

Del Negro wasn't being flip or coy. The question was straightforward, and he offered the best approximation of his team's blueprint when it had the ball - the Chris Paul System.

"All those names and all that stuff," Del Negro said of the Princeton, the spread, seven seconds or less, etc. "You just put the ball in the best player's hands."

In other words

All those well researched complicated offenses that made legendary coaches like Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson are for you journalists and snobby know it alls

We run the Chris Paul system here

roll

He wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest and I said the roster was built to maximize Dwight's talent

So what? Ideally we'd have a roster in LA to maximize Chris Paul's talents

Shooters on the wing and Blake popping out for an open jump shot

That's why the team hired Bob Thate the most respected shooting coach in the NBA

Hopefully they're going to trade Caron's expiring and Bledsoe for a wing who can shoot this off season and we can run an offense that looks closer to the unstoppable offense he ran in New Orleans

Orlando also had more cutting and off the ball movement than you give them credit for just watch tape from Van Gundy's tenure

He also wouldn't allow Chris to dribble the clock away against the most disciplined defense in the league and he wouldn't allow Chauncey Billups to play if he couldn't even contain his man Tony Allen who went off for double digit points multiple times in the playoffs when he's probably the most offensively challenged wing starting in the NBA

Here is the full quote:

Name that offense

The Lakers, the Clippers' co-tenants at Staples Center, ran the triangle offense with great success in Phil Jackson's

two stints as their coach. Then they ran the Princeton offense so poorly this season that it got Mike Brown fired as coach.

So, what do the Clippers call their offense? Does it have a name?

"Yeah, Chris Paul," Del Negro said, referring to his All-Star point guard. "All these names and all that stuff - you just put the ball in the best player's hands. I'm sure the ball is going to be in LeBron's hands. -

"You just try to get the guys to buy into what you're trying to do."

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_2200 ... eady-james

Keep up with me here. They asked him what the NAME of his offense is CALLED. Not why type of offense he runs. The question was asked after the PRINCETON was failed. It was mocking the Lakers and he was being coy. VDN throughout the year made smarmy remarks at the lakers' expense.

In other words, he was keeping it simple with his answers. read the rest of the interview and see his other responses to understand the context.

I was watching a pregame show where they asked him the same thing. he answered with the same response and he had a smirk on his face.

I am sure others here saw that and maybe someone can vouch for this.

I've also watched post game interviews where players would mention they ran a motion offense with options so I wouldn't take everything so literally.

with that said, I really don't care which way we go. I just get caught up with these arguments about how so many people know for a fact, that this was the Coach's doing. I'm presenting the other side and blaming the players more. Missing shots, not playing defense, turning it over, and playing scared is on the players. And I seen a lot of that in this series.

divinebeast
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I'm not disagreeing with that in the slightest

I'm of the opinion that not even 30 percent of the series was Vinny's fault

We have a flawed roster that isn't built to maximize Chris Paul's strengths as a play maker and only features a single two way player

Deandre is an overpaid low IQ player with a terrible attitude and terrible habits

The wings are old and can't move and only Butler can shoot at a slightly above average clip

I'm only saying that if you can upgrade in the coaching position do it

There's only a handful of coaches out there who could be considered upgrades though so if you can't get one of those guys give Vinny an extension

Either way we need a roster overhaul this off season and Bledsoe, Butlers expiring salary, and Deandre Jordan should all be used to make that happen

clipper*joe
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divinebeast wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

with that said, I really don't care which way we go. I just get caught up with these arguments about how so many people know for a fact, that this was the Coach's doing. I'm presenting the other side and blaming the players more. Missing shots, not playing defense, turning it over, and playing scared is on the players. And I seen a lot of that in this series.

I'm not disagreeing with that in the slightest

I'm of the opinion that not even 30 percent of the series was Vinny's fault

We have a flawed roster that isn't built to maximize Chris Paul's strengths as a play maker and only features a single two way player

Deandre is an overpaid low IQ player with a terrible attitude and terrible habits

The wings are old and can't move and only Butler can shoot at a slightly above average clip

I'm only saying that if you can upgrade in the coaching position do it

There's only a handful of coaches out there who could be considered upgrades though so if you can't get one of those guys give Vinny an extension

Either way we need a roster overhaul this off season and Bledsoe, Butlers expiring salary, and Deandre Jordan should all be used to make that happen

I guess we found some common ground now. I just bow out and leave it on a good note.

Good night.

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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clipper*joe wrote:
clipperBryan32 wrote:

Really? Those Orlando teams a few years back were STACKED. Calling them untalented is almost laughable.

And consistently in the top 5 in salary. They were stacked, and they spent a lot of money to compete.

some people forget that turkoglu was balling at a high level. he was the facilitator that helped howard have a monster year when they reached the finals. their starting 5 was sick, howard, turkoglu, rashard lewis, alston, and nelson. their bench was bogans, battie, courtney lee, reddick, gortat and mickael pietrius.

ClipperSam
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I don't even want him around! If the guy can't coach he can't tell the differance between a good coach and a bad one. Plus he might be bitter and hire a bad coach to make himself feel better.

No way!

bullterrierclipsfan1349
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^ lol. paranoid much?

pageC4
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It was a very god team. it was just a shame they did nt win the title

jarca
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clipper*joe wrote:
divinebeast wrote:

SVG's defensive principles don't rely on anything other than guys following orders and going where they're told to go

D'antoni's system requires players with a particular skill set

Ok coach, what are his "defensive principles". I ask cause you seem to know them. That was not rhetorical either. I hope you elaborate on this cause i am seriously intrigued by this revelation.

Quote:

Again you're just making stuff up to prop Vinny up and ignoring the obvious for the sake of your agenda

It's all good since your opinion doesn't seem to matter to the front office who are rumored to be looking at Van Gundy as their top candidate

What's made up? Specify what's made up so I can address it. Van Gundy has only been around HOF centers that have arguably been the most dominant in the last 20 years. Stan has only run one type of offense and that includes having shooters around a dominant center. That tells me he only knows one way to run a offense. Guess what? We don't have a center close to being as dominant as those two so doesn't it seem obvious one would question whether he knows how to run a team like ours?

Forget his "defensive philosophies" , I was always talking about offense, and so were you when you apologized for Antoni.

EDIT:

make that three centers.

Alonzo Mourning was with the Heat also. Hmmmm...Wonder how Stan would do with DJ. lol

didnt SVG coached the heat with butler, rookie wade, and odom. I am not sure but i think they were top 10 at least in the nba in defense and that team wasnt post oriented. they were pretty much a run and gun team.

ArtMaggot
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I think it kind of sucks to have the best record ever and then get s*** canned.

It is a tough business.

cleepers
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"Should I stay or should I go now?

Should I stay or should I go now?

If I go there will be trouble,

An' if I stay it will be double.

So come on and let me know

Should I stay or should I go?"

  • The Clash
Silasie
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I love that song!

slestack11
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I voted yes with the stipulation that the clippers replace him with a marquee nba coach. If they just hire some assistant that they hope will eventually grow into a good coach, then they may as well stick with vdn. Over time, he will improve as a coach if given the chance. For all we know, sterling will want to bring back dunleavy so he gets something out of the money he paid him two years ago.

Clippersfan86
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BTW gotta admit I laughed out loud when I saw that Clippersam cast the first vote to oust Vinny.

Silasie
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Agreed!!

apostle
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LEAVE, the sooner the better..

smittywerb
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He needs to go. But as said above, only if we are CLEARLY upgrading. Vdn is not a bad coach, but we need better. It's like trading in a Vw for an Audi.

cleepers
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I actually have to vote to see?

What happened to the "see results" link?

I'm not gonna vote on this sh!t... it's like when the president scores neg numbers against some hypothetical challenger.

Try running on your resume or actually doing the job. Then I'll decide.

clipper*joe
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Report: Hawks after Stan Van Gundy

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/92635 ... ach-report

pageC4
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Wow, he actually was the first to jump on that? LMFAO, wow. Well, the man is certainly passionate about his dislike for Vinny. Good for you sam, keep fighting the good fight

A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Lol @ 91-8. Why is this even a poll?

cleepers
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Silasie wrote:
cleepers wrote:
"Should I stay or should I go now?

Should I stay or should I go now?

If I go there will be trouble,

An' if I stay it will be double.

So come on and let me know

Should I stay or should I go?"

  • The Clash

I love that song!

For you, my English brother...

Doesn't Joe Strummer kinda remind you of a young Vinny... or am I just imagining it?

p.s. COME ON YOU IRONS!!!

Diamond909
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yes, u got the team to win 56 games and yes, u got the team to win their firts division title and oh yes the winning streak.

Good and congratulations!

Be consistant. I didnt see that in his coaching.

what the hell happen when the team won 17 games in a role? did he forget how to coach when the new year rolled up?

you can honestly say if it wasn't for the streak... the clippers wouldn't probably made the playoffs or even accomplished what they did

Jerediscool
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There's other threads for this..... Mods, merge please!

Diamond909
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i just notice thanks

A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Wow. This is breaking news. I'm impressed with OP's originality.

JoeClipplet
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Settle down Mike Smiths

Diamond909
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no need for that im new.

divinebeast
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Wow I almost feel bad for Vinny

pageC4
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i think its a good measure on what clippers topbuzz members think of VDN. if it wasnt put up maybe vinny supporters would say that not all of topbuzz wants vinny gone

jarca
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hawks pursuing svg! another failed off season again

Agent0
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you don't get to the WCF with the kind of defense the Clippers played. ECF, yea since you would have weaker first and second round opponents.

At least to the WCF meant that you were expecting at the least wins against a 56 wins team and a 60 win team that was healthy when the playoffs began. I would call that the almost maximum potential of the team (max being finals), but "at least" implies that the teams floor was WCF, that's just being a homer, lol

lacsmoove
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It does not matter. We've critiqued VDN's performance pretty much every game this past season. All that matters is that CP3 resigns with us. If he wants Vinny then Vinny will be here. If not, he won't.

I wonder would anyone be willing to let CP3 go if it meant resigning VDN? In other words if CP3 wanted VDN to stay would any Vinny detractors be willing to let CP3 sign somewhere else if he stated he would only stay if VDN stayed?

Probably not, rightfully so. I'm ok either way as long as CP3 stays put.

namzug
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I tend to lean towards being a Vinny hater, but only because of the raised expectations. When I thought he was going to grow with a young roster trying to build there identity I thought he was a good fit, but once we got CP3 it all changed. He wasn't given a vote of confidence and didn't have the time to grow himself as a young coach or time to develop his young players and allow them to go through growing pains.

Having said that I believe Vinny should be given the chance with a growing team. We need someone who fits and can mold our young talent quickly as well as giving us an identity. I would want sloan or nate or svg in that order. svg would be my first choice if he brings ewing with him to work with our bigs.

Clippers_FTW
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#1 hire the dream to teach blake and dj... step #2 hire karl malone and john stockton to teach blake and chris the proper pick and roll techniques.... #3 get the coach that taught karl malone and john stockton

clipper*joe
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Agent0 wrote:
clippersforlife33 wrote:
vinny or not, with the team that we had with all that depth we easily should have been at least to the western conference finals. my only problem with vinny was his line up rotation because it was so inconsistent. i don't think he knew who his 8 best players were and thats a problem in the playoffs.
you don't get to the WCF with the kind of defense the Clippers played. ECF, yea since you would have weaker first and second round opponents.

At least to the WCF meant that you were expecting at the least wins against a 56 wins team and a 60 win team that was healthy when the playoffs began. I would call that the almost maximum potential of the team (max being finals), but "at least" implies that the teams floor was WCF, that's just being a homer, lol

Why don't you ask Grillinap about that? I'm pretty sure he'd answer that question being he likes asking question/polls himself.

I gotta say, I am intrigued to find out the answer.

Grillinnap
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Wow, you still haven't let go, have you? Why are you so butthurt by this thread? You don't like seeing the 94%-6% voting or what? Trying to stir **** up because only a small percentage of posters on this board agrees with you. And why am I not surprised that you're the only one in this thread complaining?

If I made a poll about DJ leaving or staying ("leaving" would also win by a big margin), would I see you crying and randomly calling me out on it? Noooooo.

clipper*joe
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your snide remarks aside, where is your stand on this? Would you be willing to accept VDN if it meant we keep CP3? Or would you be willing to let CP3 go if it meant we got another coach?

Not butthurt, not crying about it, not something I haven't let go. I am willing to let your childish comments go if it means we get an honest answer from you.

So what say you? You asked a question in this thread looking for answers so i am assuming you're eagerly willing to give yours. No hidden agenda here, just curious where you stand.

You can go one of three ways here:

  1. Ignore it completely

  2. Make some more comments like ones you made and masquerade it as "stirring the pot".

  3. Or simply answer the question someone other than I, asked.

  • I never asked the question, someone else did. So my point is that the OP should answer the question being he started this thread to find out which side everyone was on.

    Ignore it if you like but don't make this about me getting back at you. I have nothing to get back at you for. That would imply you got over on me once. far from the truth. Don't worry, I ain't going to address this any further but inquiring minds now want to know...

Grillinnap
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You can deny being butthurt or crying all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you aren't fond of this thread because you feel like it's out to get you. If you have no hidden agenda, then why didn't you place a vote? Did you feel you were getting made fun of especially after the votes became visible?

Why would I need to answer the question when I'M the one who's asking it? You want an answer from me me? Here it goes: Of course I wouldn't care at the moment if it were to keep CP3. But it's easier said than done. I just don't believe the scenarios you gave. So instead of "keeping VDN if it meant keeping CP3" and "letting CP3 go and getting another coach, I'm leaning towards "letting go of VDN and keeping CP3" and "keeping VDN and letting CP3 go" as the two possible scenarios.

Agent0
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Repped High Quality Post

Hakeem doesn't want to be hired by an NBA team, and he still can't teach jump shots or FT shooting. Blake should work with him in the summer, DJ honestly should keep doing what he's doing in terms of offensive game. He would actually be better served playing in summer league and working on his post moves with defenders around and the rest of the time in his FT shooting.

Marc Gasol and Randolph can both score well in the post, but they would be much less effective if neither of them was a shooting threat. Their high low pass works because teams go out and guard Gasol's jumpshot. If DJ gets the ball high and Blake cuts and pins his man, there's less likely to be a passing angle because DJ's man isn't guarding him out there but instead is sagging back and clogging the lane.

The team needs a coach primarily for defense and improving the defensive system. Offensively, the teams bigger issue in the post-season isn't coaching as much as it's personnel.

I think as fans we are too eager to try to replicate things. The best thing a coach can do is find his players strengths and maximize them while getting them to improve their weaknesses. Trying to mold them into players that they aren't isn't the most effective method.

Chris Paul doesn't need anyone to teach him pick and roll, he was very effective with it in New Orleans when he had a knock down shooter, and is still very effective with it.

The most effective pick and roll guys we've seen have either a PF or C who can both shoot and roll. Amare was a great mid-range shooter and Marion would spot up and could cut or shoot, and vice versa. Diaw could also shoot. When Orlando's pick and roll was working best, they had PF's: Rashard Lewis and Ryan Anderson. Karl Malone was an excellent midrange shooter. David West was money from mid-range so when Paul and Chandler ran a pick and roll, West's defender doesn't come running to clog the lane and prevent a lob, he sticks to West.

The lane isn't open for rolling as much for a player who is not a threat to shoot because the defense will just play the pick and roll to force you to shoot. Teams aren't stupid, but of course with great players you will find openings once in a while, but expecting a pick and roll offense to be maximally effective on a team with no big man shooter that opponents respects, yes, not one single one, is not really a good expectation.

Grillinnap
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Agent0, I don't think DJ's eligible to play in the Summer League anymore. Plus, with that contract, I'm pretty sure his ego has ballooned.

clipper*joe
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Like I said, I ain't paranoid, butthurt, or crying about anything...He'll, I didn't even ask the question in this thread. lol

By the way, I am very fond of this thread and the proof is that I have a large count in terms of post in this thread. You might have it confused with the Poll that is attached to this thread...I'm fond of. It's the poll, not the thread. Anyhoo, back on topic.

Very Happy

clipper*joe
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Agent0 wrote:
Clippers_FTW wrote:
#1 hire the dream to teach blake and dj... step #2 hire karl malone and john stockton to teach blake and chris the proper pick and roll techniques.... #3 get the coach that taught karl malone and john stockton
Hakeem doesn't want to be hired by an NBA team, and he still can't teach jump shots or FT shooting. Blake should work with him in the summer, DJ honestly should keep doing what he's doing in terms of offensive game. He would actually be better served playing in summer league and working on his post moves with defenders around and the rest of the time in his FT shooting.

Marc Gasol and Randolph can both score well in the post, but they would be much less effective if neither of them was a shooting threat. Their high low pass works because teams go out and guard Gasol's jumpshot. If DJ gets the ball high and Blake cuts and pins his man, there's less likely to be a passing angle because DJ's man isn't guarding him out there but instead is sagging back and clogging the lane.

The team needs a coach primarily for defense and improving the defensive system. Offensively, the teams bigger issue in the post-season isn't coaching as much as it's personnel.

I think as fans we are too eager to try to replicate things. The best thing a coach can do is find his players strengths and maximize them while getting them to improve their weaknesses. Trying to mold them into players that they aren't isn't the most effective method.

Chris Paul doesn't need anyone to teach him pick and roll, he was very effective with it in New Orleans when he had a knock down shooter, and is still very effective with it.

The most effective pick and roll guys we've seen have either a PF or C who can both shoot and roll. Amare was a great mid-range shooter and Marion would spot up and could cut or shoot, and vice versa. Diaw could also shoot. When Orlando's pick and roll was working best, they had PF's: Rashard Lewis and Ryan Anderson. Karl Malone was an excellent midrange shooter. David West was money from mid-range so when Paul and Chandler ran a pick and roll, West's defender doesn't come running to clog the lane and prevent a lob, he sticks to West.

The lane isn't open for rolling as much for a player who is not a threat to shoot because the defense will just play the pick and roll to force you to shoot. Teams aren't stupid, but of course with great players you will find openings once in a while, but expecting a pick and roll offense to be maximally effective on a team with no big man shooter that opponents respects, yes, not one single one, is not really a good expectation.

Repped! Now that is a post worthy of a rep.

smittywerb
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He had a visit with the Bucks. Seems like we're sitting on our hands here. I'm getting worried.

Grillinnap
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But you asked me about my own opinion. Did you not?

What's the difference? The poll is what the thread is about.

phaded21
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smittywerb wrote:
Clippers_FTW wrote:
#3 get the coach that taught karl malone and john stockton

He had a visit with the Bucks. Seems like we're sitting on our hands here. I'm getting worried.

Is it weird that many of us want a coach that had Stockton and Malone but never won a championship with them? What makes you guys think he can win one with CP3 and Blake?

smittywerb
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phaded21 wrote:
smittywerb wrote:
Clippers_FTW wrote:
#3 get the coach that taught karl malone and john stockton

He had a visit with the Bucks. Seems like we're sitting on our hands here. I'm getting worried.

Is it weird that many of us want a coach that had Stockton and Malone but never won a championship with them? What makes you guys think he can win one with CP3 and Blake?

You're really going to sit here and blame Sloan for losing to Jordan? Damn, that's cold. I give any coach who had to against Jordan after 1990 a pass.

prokreation
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When is the Clippers Front Office going to man up and be DECISIVE. The Nets were decisive in going after a new coach. The Bucks are going after Jerry Sloan. What are we doing? If we're not going to bring Vinny back then why aren't we going to be fair to him? Why string him along and leave him hanging? What have we done since our season is over? Who are we going after? What are we doing???

LuvMeSumMEE
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Pulling a Rambis, LoL. Who knows, maybe it's not over with Vinny. I'm not even really sweating Vinny that much. Both the starters and the bench have ball dominant players in CP n' Craw, so it may not matter who you get. Just fill the roster back in with defenders and guys that'll help our 2 Hero Ball Players put the ball in the basket.

Agent0
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I know Orlando summer league is 3 years or less in the league, but does the NBA Summer League have any restrictions?

I say this because I remember Artest playing in the NBA's summer league a couple years ack while with Sacramento

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