Clippers Fire Coach Vinny Del Negro (P. 5)

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Voyeur
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Okay, I'm through pretending you're due respect. lol

You're talking semantics. It's obvious Blake is talking about inconsistencies with the defense. I'm saying he's played more professional games than you have. He's faced more defenses than you have. He's had to play more defense than you have. He's a young man, but he knows a little something about this by now. I'm trusting his word on this. Especially since we all saw inconsistencies with the defense.

The only person acting foolish right now is you.

Agent0
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Paul wasn't awful against Memphis last season, he averaged 20.4 pts and 7.1 assists on .570 TS%, and the numbers were similar to this season before his injury at the end of game 5. He played very well, and even in game 7 he put up a good effort whole struggling with his injuries.

A big difference last season was that Randolph wasn't as healthy, and that the presence of Rudy Gay changed how their offense ran. The Clippers wouldn't have lost to Memphis with Gay taking 16 FGA/G with a .505 TS% and 99 Ortg because that Memphis 113.8 Ortg would come tumbling down. Also last season, Memphis used Mayo and Arenas as backup PG's and the Clippers were able to turn them over as opposed to Dooling and Bayless who had much better ball protection.

It had little to do with being mental midgets. It had to do with the fact that the defense was top 10 on the strength of forcing turnovers (1st). The Clippers couldn't turn Memphis over. It also had to do with the fact that the Clippers were one of the worst in the regular season at fouling, and they just fouled a lot more in the playoffs, you know, maybe trying to be "tough".

Memphis shot a worse eFG% than LAC, they grabbed like 3 more offensive rebounds the whole series, the problem was that the hedging on pick and roll defense did not force Memphis into mistakes, Conley was calm and always knew he had Gasol as a pop option. In addition, Memphis abused the Clippers willingness to foul which was an issue both this season and last, but Rudy shooting isolation pull up jumpshots last season wasn't getting them in early bonus and to the FT line.

clipper*joe
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And what are those words...His actual words that describe changing systems from game to game? What word/words are you trusting him on?

clipper*joe
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If I recall, he was a turnover machine the whole series. I also agree about gay. Not Randolph though. he played plenty of games before the playoffs. BG was the one that was hurt too.

CLIPSET
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Don't agree with the move. Where's the logic behind this? What other coach in NBA history has turned a losing franchise to a NBA champs in 2 years??

At least Vinny had an upside compared to some of the candidates that are being suggested.

Blake Griffin better grow a pair this off season and CP3 better stay injury free. Can't blame the coach no more.

The only championship caliber coach out there is Phil Jackson.

CLIPSET
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Why is everybody saying Vinny is a nice guy? LOL how many of you know him personally?

clipper*joe
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I can totally see why the move was made and to a degree, you can't fault the Clippers for pulling that move. With that said, this will be CP3's second season where he's pulling the strings...Along with BG now.

DTS pleasing Paul better pay dividends and fast. He helped change the perception and made history when he came here and now he has a second change to do it again...For better or worse.

His trajectory doesn't look good based on this past season so word to the wise.

Agent0
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Not actually injured, just not 100%, remember he was coming back from MCL surgery. It isn't an excuse as Blake was injured, and Paul was injured and playing through it then got a more limiting hip pointer injury. Caron also had a fat hand.

3.6 TPG, 16.6 TOV%, yes, but at 111 Ortg, 117 before the injury. You're not going to complain too much about something like that or call it playing awful. It isn't even playing bad, or average, it's very good despite that. It's only as bad because it's Paul.

Agent0
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more perception, seems like a nice guy in terms of his persona. He might be a terrible person to his wife and kids, who knows

CLIPSET
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clipper*joe wrote:
CLIPSET wrote:
Don't agree with the move. Where's the logic behind this? What other coach in NBA history has turned a losing franchise to a NBA champs in 2 years??

At least Vinny had an upside compared to some of the candidates that are being suggested.

Blake Griffin better grow a pair this off season and CP3 better stay injury free. Can't blame the coach no more.

The only championship caliber coach out there is Phil Jackson.

I can totally see why the move was made and to a degree, you can't fault the Clippers for pulling that move. With that said, this will be CP3's second season where he's pulling the strings...Along with BG now.

DTS pleasing Paul better pay dividends and fast. He helped change the perception and made history when he came here and now he has a second change to do it again...For better or worse.

His trajectory doesn't look good based on this past season so word to the wise.

No , can't fault them for making the move but it would be different if there was a clear cut choice to fill the vacancy. There isn't. For me, personally, I don't understand how you get rid of a coach that was WINNING, especially when you consider the franchise's history. Vinny's first 5 years as a head coach haven't been bad, in fact he's progressively improved. Getting rid of him for unproven/washed up coaches isn't the answer. I mean good God, Alvin Gentry, Larry Drew, Brian Shaw, Byron Scott are not upgrades.

clipper*joe
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Agent0 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

If I recall, he was a turnover machine the whole series. I also agree about gay. Not Randolph though. he played plenty of games before the playoffs. BG was the one that was hurt too.

Not actually injured, just not 100%, remember he was coming back from MCL surgery. It isn't an excuse as Blake was injured, and Paul was injured and playing through it then got a more limiting hip pointer injury. Caron also had a fat hand.

3.6 TPG, 16.6 TOV%, yes, but at 111 Ortg, 117 before the injury. You're not going to complain too much about something like that or call it playing awful. It isn't even playing bad, or average, it's very good despite that. It's only as bad because it's Paul.

That's where stats never tell the whole story. Bledsoe was more impactful in limited minutes than CP3 was...IMO.

Agent0
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clipper*joe wrote:
Agent0 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

If I recall, he was a turnover machine the whole series. I also agree about gay. Not Randolph though. he played plenty of games before the playoffs. BG was the one that was hurt too.

Not actually injured, just not 100%, remember he was coming back from MCL surgery. It isn't an excuse as Blake was injured, and Paul was injured and playing through it then got a more limiting hip pointer injury. Caron also had a fat hand.

3.6 TPG, 16.6 TOV%, yes, but at 111 Ortg, 117 before the injury. You're not going to complain too much about something like that or call it playing awful. It isn't even playing bad, or average, it's very good despite that. It's only as bad because it's Paul.

That's where stats never tell the whole story. Bledsoe was more impactful in limited minutes than CP3 was...IMO.

The team played best with both of them on the floor, but we saw little of Bledsoe. The stats aren't dong any lying this time, Bledsoe did well in his minutes, but Paul played very well despite turnovers. Bledsoe had a better series vs the Spurs, I think you're mixing up both series, Memphis wasn't really his breakout series.

Of course he also had turnover issues against the Spurs with his 24.5 TOV%, but they couldn't stop him from getting in the paint and he did a very good job on Parker defensively.

clipper*joe
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No, Bledsoe got more minutes in the Spurs series after playing well in the Grizz series. CP3 stats don't lie but like I said, bledsoe was more impactful in his limited minutes. You remember the 1st game of the Grizz series? remember the blowout in the making? It was the bench with Bledsoe that made it possible for CP3 come back in after he and the starters couldn't do a thing. That game was the series and that was possible cause the bench did what the starters couldn't. That is one example on why I felt CP3, despite getting his, wasn't stepping up most of the series.

ClipsGForce
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CP3 all pressure to sign. if not he ll look like a fool

ekker3
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the first result you'll find if you do a google image search for "nba scapegoat":

Agent0
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Yea, I know that's why he got more minutes, but it wasn't until game 6 and 7 vs Memphis and then into the Spurs series that we truly saw him "breaking out".

Would we really call game 1 a good example of Paul getting his but having less impact?

That is the most memorable game, but in the middle games, it was a lot of Paul. Yea, that game was the spark for winning the series, but the Clips still had to win three more. Paul only had 14 points that game on 5/12 (.493 TS) he came back in when the game was still pretty out of hand, and his main role was in pushing the ball and finding guys in the come back, not in scoring.

Bledsoe did well, hit a three, defended, but I don't know if I'd call that a game where Paul got his but didn't have as much impact because he didn't get his, his individual scoring wasn't really there that game. Paul also played 10 out of Bledsoe's 20 minutes with him.

You go to game 2-5 where the Clippers won two games and Bledsoe was either struggling or non-existent and Paul averaged 24.8 / 5.5 / 7.0/ 47.8 FG / 43.8 3PT /.605 TS. He gets a slight minute drop after his game 5 injury and we see more Bledsoe who also stepped up to the challenge in game 6 and 7.

CapsNClips
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I bet if you type in NBA Goat on google you get Brian Skinner.

CLIPSET
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Mark Heisler: Source says Lionel Hollins is No. 1 on #Clippers list w/Byron Scott, Alvin Gentry. Team officials just relieved Sterling gave in, axed VDN. Twitter @MarkHeisler

chriswylde
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Still so dizzy with happiness that Vinny Del Negligent is del Gonezo. 2-8 in his last 10 playoff games. And I still think Clips sign A List coach. The names Lawler mentioned again were: Phil, Sloan, Larry Brown

CapsNClips
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I wish Donald would take advise from Lawler instead of Chris and Blake. He's the best asset we have, we need to keep him happy.

chriswylde
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Lawler is so smart when it comes to Clips hoops. He's literally seen it all. He had such a brilliant point about being concerned we dropped 3 shooters (mo, foye, and nick young) and picked up a scorer (Jamal) but not a shooter. We needed somebody on the wing to bury some 3's when we were within 6 in game 6! We need a big dog proven winner hall of fame coach now. Shoot the moon

CLIPSET
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$100 says Avery Johnson is the next coach.

Grillinnap
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I did not know Hollins had an expiring contract with the Grizzlies. But I really doubt the Grizzlies would let him go. They have a new ownership and they will give him the money he wants.

prokreation
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DEAL. and I'll hold you to it.

Diamond909
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omg i was just thinking of Avery lol i hope not

lobcityhawaii
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Yeah I doubt the griz let hollins go.

smittywerb
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Hollins ain't going anywhere! We can cross him off the list.

Voyeur
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I grow weary of people calling Vinny a "scapegoat" or that he's a "victim" of expectations.

Vinny almost sabotaged our chances of winning Game 6 by playing Billups in the 4th quarter. NOBODY else feels like that was an unforgivable blunder around here? Starting Billups in the first place was a blunder considering we were obviously a better team without him...but at least that's a forgivable one. Benching the best 4th quarter player in the NBA in favor of a player who was downright awful the whole series is inexcusable.

Between that, Vinny's inability to motivate, his refusal to draw up actual plays in favor of isolation plays for Paul with minutes left in a game, his almost inflexible rotations....Vinny's given us plenty of reasons a change needed to be made.

Now I'll grant you, many of his off-court decisions are excellent. His trade ideas were at times right on the money.

CLIPSET
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CP3 was given the freedom to do whatever he liked. During the 17 game win streak all praise due to CP3 and co. Now that they came up short it's Vinny's fault. Clearly, anybody watching game 6 knows that we were playing 5 vs 8 and despite that, we're a Billups blunder away from really making the game interesting. Vinny will take his next team to the playoffs, guaranteed.

Voyeur
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Sure there was praise early on because the Clippers were blowing teams out. It's hard not to give Paul some credit. The team obviously turned around the moment Paul put on a Clippers jersey. But it's when games are close that we see the quality of the coach. And, I'm sorry, even when we won close games, I was not a fan of having everyone stand around while Paul goes one on one. It's okay for the final shot, but for the final 2 minutes?

Will Vinny take the next team to the playoffs? It's certainly possible, but it depends on the team. I've seen Vinny do some good coaching. I look back to the final game of last season, at Madison Square Garden. It was a close game. Blake was playing big. And down the stretch the campera captured Vinny drawing up a play for BG to execute a driving hook shot, which Blake did successfully over Tyson Chandler. I think Vinny can coach, but somewhere along the line he stopped being effective coaching the Clippers.

chriswylde
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Vinny will take his next team to the playoffs first round possibly. But no further. The guy has been continually outclassed in the post season. 5 visits. 1 trip out of the first round... where he promptly got swept. His record in his last 10 playoff games? 2-8. Which include losing 4 games in a row... twice. HE STINKS and it's his fault I'm not going to be sitting in my seat for Game 3 of the Western Conference Finals.

CLIPSET
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4 playoff appearances in 5 years is not bad bro for a first time coach. Maybe his next team will feature competent big men. I can see Vinny coaching the Wolves or the Suns. It would be cool to see him go against the Clippers in the first round.

chriswylde
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Look what the Bulls did as soon as Vinny was canned. Hoping for the same/better result for the good guys next year.

Vinny has a house in Phoenix so wouldn't be shocked if he ended up there... WOULD be shocked if he was able to take the Suns to playoffs any time soon in the ultra competitive Western Conference

jarca
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Grillinnap wrote:
jarca wrote:
^^ not really. bull with drose under vdn was a 8th spot and first round exit

And a 41-41 record...

for some people it's the same i guess lol

clipper*joe
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But he also got a rookie/soph version of DRose and Noah. That was with no experience for the coach, and future cornerstones of that team.

That's like Paul Westhead had with a rookie Magic Johnson. Riley came in the right time to take over that team and watch Magic, Rambis, Worthy, and Scott grow up and win multiple titles. Riley never got another ring after that.

Rooks/Soph's as great as they will be, are not the same players coming into the league. And they almost upset the Celtics too. One of the best playoffs series ever.

CapsNClips
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clipper*joe wrote:
jarca wrote:
^^ not really. bull with drose under vdn was a 8th spot and first round exit

But he also got a rookie/soph version of DRose and Noah. That was with no experience for the coach, and future cornerstones of that team.

That's like Paul Westphal had with a rookie Magic Johnson. Riley came in the right time to take over that team and watch Magic, Rambis, Worthy, and Scott grow up and win multiple titles. Riley never got another ring after that.

Rooks/Soph's as great as they will be, are not the same players coming into the league. And they almost upset the Celtics too. One of the best playoffs series ever.

Exactly, if anybody thinks Vinny was a scrub go watch the Celtics/Bulls series. That was against the defending World Champions and it went to a Game 7 with like a million overtimes. Celtics didn't have KG but they were still a top 5 team even without him.

KezmicClipper
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Weird! Both of my teams (Clippers and Stoke City) parted ways with their coach on the same day. Interesting times...

divinebeast
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Nah the defense fell apart because teams adjusted to our over trapping

It's the same thing in the NFL you can't blitz on every possession.

clipper321
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divinebeast wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

We finished top 10 in defense. we fell short not because we changed systems. we fell short cause our bigs played like mental midgets. We used BG a lot last season playing gasol and we won. We did the same thing this time and we lost. CP3 became more engaged offensively and didn't assist as much as he averaged, and we lost. last season CP3 played horrible against the Grizz and we won. Bledsoe played great D last playoffs, and this time, he looked disengaged and we lost. The effort on defense as whole killed us and you could see that as plain as day. They were all mental midgets.

Nah the defense fell apart because teams adjusted to our over trapping

It's the same thing in the NFL you can't blitz on every possession.

Yeah those traps only work if you have the roster to support it like the Miami Heat.

I still think at its core the defense is a roster issue but a more competent coaching scheme wouldn't hurt either.

ClippersSince97
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According to Markazi via twitter:

Phil Jackson on @SportsCenter if the Clippers called him about their head coaching vacancy. "Thanks but no thanks."

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi

Diamond909
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Anybody know how deep Nate McMillan been in the playoffs?

lobcityhawaii
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I think in 2005 he lost in the conference semis. other than that, all first round exits or not making the playoffs.

Diamond909
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and the clippers are considering lol wow

Diamond909
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Former Portland Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan has reportedly emerged as a prime candidate for the Los Angeles Clippers' coaching vacancy after the firing of Vinny Del Negro. With management hoping to appease soon-to-be free agent Chris Paul as he decides where to sign his next contract, finding a coach that works well with the point guard will be key. Since being fired by Portland in 2012, McMillan hasn't coached in the NBA, but he's been considered a candidate for numerous openings, including the current ones in Atlanta, Milwaukee and Detroit. It's easy to imagine the Clippers job being the most appealing to McMillan should the team make him an offer, though, given the strength of the team's roster. Assuming Paul returns, which is likely if he's involved in the coach hiring process, the Clippers should have one of the most talented rosters in the game.

Los Angeles Times

LuvMeSumMEE
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Whoever they get better have the fellas playing good team defense this coming season...

ekker3
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Not surprising after that DTS/Karma quote from Phil.

cleepers
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lobcityhawaii wrote:
Diamond909 wrote:
Anybody know how deep Nate McMillan been in the playoffs?

I think in 2005 he lost in the conference semis. other than that, all first round exits or not making the playoffs.

Yup. Nate has been in the game 7 years longer than Vinny and hasn't achieved any more than him. One trip to the second round and a slightly lower career win%.

An upgrade? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

tense2
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Could be that, but from ever show Phil's been on lately, he's stated that he does not want to coach any longer. His mind might want too, but his body says no.

Diamond909
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if nate ends up being our coach ill be disappointed . this slight up is not for this ball club to just pass the 2round but to achieve more than that. nate is not the ideal coach for this team

Grillinnap
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Very disappointed that he's the "prime" candidate. There are a lot of better options out there. I want a coach that has a history of coaching an all-star PG.

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