Rumor: Eric Bledsoe & Caron Butler for Arron Afflalo (P. 10)

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CP3Heliflopter
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I don't get how this is any different. Do you use your hands to shoot or your head? Unless you use some kind of weird underhand form when shooting wingspan is a more important factor here. Would you rather have a 6'3 player with a 6'3 wingspan or a 6'1 player with a 6'8 wingspan? The latter is way better to have.

LeftHook
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Well, think about it this way. Let's say we're the same height. If you have the ball, and we both touch hands in the air, you lose ball. If I have the ball in my hands and we touch hands, I lose ball. We can high 5 all we want, but ball handler loses something.

Also the difference in blocking and shooting, when you're defending let's say you're going for a block, you're extending your body and your arm too meet the ball. When shooting, your arms are bent, and when you shoot, you shoot at an angle.

Andrew818
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If the rumored trade of Bledsoe and Butler for Affalo,Nicholson,and a 1st rounder is true I would try to get Bernard James thrown in.He's not making a lot of money and is a defensive big.Would be a good 3rd string center in case of an injury.

TheThinkingSomething
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A 6'6" wingspan is common for an nba player of his height, as wingspan tends to be a few inches longer than the height of an individual. It isn't wingspan you are looking for, anyways, it would be standing reach. Bled's moderately oversized wingspan wouldn't be able to make up for his glaringly deficient standing reach and he would have to gamble to contest shots making him highly vulnerable to up-fakes.

TheThinkingSomething
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Haha, well... I don't know this for sure, but, regardless, it would be a horrible idea. Doc may very well have that planned, but Doc isn't incapable of having horrible ideas, either.

I think that it is hilarious that you attack my post for claiming to know something that I epistemologically cannot know, when, in the post you made right before that, you claim that CP3's return was somehow "finalized" with Doc's signing. We are more confident, that is all.

As for us running a dual PG lineup, it can work... until teams begin exploiting its weaknesses. Which is what I hope we avoid by not starting Bled at the 2.

How many 6'1" SGs have started on contending teams? How many can you name? Jason Kidd last year? How did that work out?

clippermitch
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Bledsoe doesn't necessarily have to start, but he does have to play more minutes. Vinny played him like 15 minutes a game. That's just not enough.

He needs to be at 25-30 minutes a game or we might as well trade him. Doc will have to figure this one out fast.

Markojaric
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With Crawford, Paul, Billups-Green and Bledsoe two of these guys had to play limited minutes. One of course, was bled. So...Getting a guy like AA.... how do you think the minutes are getting distributed? Small ball city?

Thats the reason id try to get a Sf for bled.

clipperstown
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The idea that a 2 guard needs to be 6'5-6'6 doesn't apply to today's game. There are no more t macs and VC's at the 2 guard. Anyone that afflalo can guard, bledsoe can guard BETTER. Bledsoes overall game is better too, especially with his cutting and athleticism.

Markojaric
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Cant we give Bled some growth injections , like Barcelona did with Messi? Thatd make things illegally easier for us, lol.

Agent0
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Begs the question of why we think Bledsoe with an 8'2 standing reach and a 6'7.5" wingspan can't contest SG's but many felt/feel that O.J. Mayo with an 8'3.5" standing reach and a 6'6 wingspan was/is the solution at SG both offensively and good enough defensively.

Willie Green started 60 games and has a 6'7.25 wingspan and an 8'4 standing reach. If you at any point in time thought O.J. Mayo could effectively guard and/or contest shots well enough at SG, then it's counter to logic to think that Bledose can't because of height or length. Just doesn't make sense

There's a reason Coutney Lee who is listed at a very generous 6'5 skipped the pre-draft measurments, and that is because it would have hurt his draft stock. He's really 6'3 without shoes, 6'4 with at best, and his wingspan and reach is not anything great from looking at him, not likely more than a Willie Green.

TheThinkingSomething
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I begged no questions as Mayo was the last SG on my list. However, if Bleds reach is 8'2", then it isn't as bad as I suspected it would be based on his height and wingspan (wingspan being well within the range of average).

There is still, though, one glaring problem, and that is that he cannot shoot. I don't care what the stats say, because they don't show that he prefers NOT to jump when shooting a wide-open "jumper." There is also an old scouting adage that goes "you can tell how good a shooter is by looking at their misses." If you look at Bled's misses they are all bricks. I am not saying that he cannot pull off being our starting 2 guard, or even that he won't be great at it, but these factors reduce my confidence in him at that position in the starting role; I would rather try someone proven and not risk losing Bleds value next season when he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

toohipcliptoslip
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Didn't Iverson start at SG? Not championship but damned close. He was however a VOLUME shooter but smaller than Bled.

He will be a good shooter next yr. Look at his FT improvement. I know one doesn't always translate to the other but it means serious time in the gym and commitment

botev1921
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You guys are missing the important point here. Bled is a capable defender and can guard even taller guards, but a SG is supposed to have at least remotely reliable 3PT shot, which Bled does not have. He won't hurt us on defense as much as he can hurt us on missed open threes. If he can somehow get to respectable 35% from long range and average at least 3 attempts (I think he was trying exactly 1 three a game last season), he will be a very solid SG despite size issues.

Agent0
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Didn't Iverson start at SG? Not championship but damned close. He was however a VOLUME shooter but smaller than Bled.

He will be a good shooter next yr. Look at his FT improvement. I know one doesn't always translate to the other but it means serious time in the gym and commitment

Eric Snow guarded SG

TheThinkingSomething, I agree that he can't shoot, but he's actually an adequate set shooter (Mario Chalmers is also not a jump shooter, and neither is Kidd, he just quickened his release to become a more reliable spot up shooter, which he credited to Thate), what Bledsoe can't do is shoot off the dribble. Like I mentioned before, he has the same profile as Tyreke Evans when it comes to that. I agree that it could be an issue, but I don't follow the sentiment that a SG must be a good shooter on every team, but this team does have need for that. I'm glad you're not a Mayo proponent, lol

botev1921, no position "has" to do anything, players just have to fit and compliment each other. I think even with his mediocre shooting, Bledsoe has other attributes that compliments the guys on offense and on defense, but he would need to start at SG and still be the backup PG, which leads me to the better solution.

He took 1.8 3PTA/36, so yes, not a lot.

Here's what I actually think a real solution that hasn't been mentioned yet could be. Bledsoe shoud be a 6th man like Jarret Jack and Jamal Crawford should be moved. Now, I do think him at SG can work with a SF that hits a lot of three's and with him in the corners where he's a good set shooter, and maximally with Blake as an improved shooter.

...on the other hand, the main issue is getting him more minutes. If your 1-3 rotation looked more like this:

Chris Paul (36 mins) / Eric Bledsoe (12 mins)

Starting SG (30 mins) / Eric Bledsoe (18 mins)

This gets Bledsoe 30 MPG but he doesn't start. Of course moving Jamal isn't really that feasible and he just came and was very useful in the regular season, but I'm just saying, it would actually be the better solution. CP plays 18 MPG with Bledsoe and 18 MPG with the other SG who will be a shooter. Games start with Paul and the other SG who would be a shooter. What player makes sense in this role? I don't know....

clipperboy24
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Don't let anyone forget Bledsoe did shoot 40% from the 3 point line and 75% from the ft line. I think he is becoming a better shooter than most think. lebron couldn't shoot worth beans when he came in and look at what he did in the finals. Maybe give it a whirl with bled as the sg.

Can't wait for the season already!

Markojaric
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Im not sure if we can judge bledsoe statistically if hes a good 3pt shooter or not. because he played 15 min per game. And while Paul was injured, he wasnt used to get THAT much playing time.

botev1921
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Indeed we can't until he starts to shoot. However, from the little shooting he did last year, there were some very suspicious shot selections. Maybe he will work specifically on his shooting if Doc commits to him.

Voyeur
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Yeah I don't trust Bledsoe's jumper at all. Some games it's there. Other games it's invisible. This is why I don't buy the idea of Bledsoe at the 2. A shooting guard should be a SHOOTING guard. I like Afflalo or Green at SG.

CapsNClips
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I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that Bledsoe should be a better shooter for US, but I disagree that SG's need to be able to shoot. D Wade was a terrible shooter for most of his career. Problem is we don't need another slasher, we do need a consistent 3 point threat.

If we have to get rid of Bledsoe then Afflalo would be nice.

Voyeur
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Bledsoe's an enigma. He's a SF in a PG's body. Hell, he rebounds better than most SF's.

Agent0
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20.4 MPG actually. In the 12 games Paul was injured and he started, he averaged 34.2 MPG and shot 43.8% 3PT with 1-2 attempts a game.

He can shoot of he's spotting up, he did it in college, but he's only assisted on 39.1% of his total made FG's because he's generally on the ball when he's on the court. When he isn't on the ball it's likely Jamal on the ball and he doesn't pass. Bledsoe can't pull up for there's off the dribble consistently, but that's not what we care about in spacing, it's whether he can stand in one spot and shoot three's.

When Paul was on the court with him was the other time he could spot up. His corner three percentage was 9/20 (45%), he couldn't shoot a lot because he wasn't in a position to take them too often as he's generally on the ball and at the too of the key when on the court.

Think Kidd and Chalmers in terms of ability to shoot the set 3PT shot. That's what you're looking for in Bledsoe.

Even with that, from the middle of the floor, he shot 7/13 (53.9%) from 3, the area he wasn't good at was above the break on the left side, 8/26 (30.8%). On the right side he was 6//16 (37.5%).

All he actually needs to do is quicken his release so he can get more shots off, and playing with Paul means he isn't always on the ball, so he's in more situations as a spot up shooter. I actually don't think that is as much of an issue as we seem to think.

We two about that "third" star, why not let it be Bledsoe? He is capable of continuing to develop into an 18/5/5 player who defends at a high level, he just needs to either quicken that release and keep shooting 35%+ from 3 or learn to shoot off the dribble. First one is easier.

CapsNClips interestingly enough I would argue that this team does need a slasher. There's no one on the team that actually has that identity. What is needed is both a slasher and a shooter, yes, wanting the best of both worlds.

If Bledsoe is working with Thate, I'm think I have faith that he can quicken his release and be an adequate 3PT shooter.

clippersforlife33
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/94369 ... s-clippers

well heres the rumor about the raptors trading for bledsoe. derozan reminds me of a young corey maggette. although he's a good player, I'm looking for a guard who can shoot and spread the floor. derozan isn't a great shooter even though he's improved his midrange jumper.

realbull17
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Bledsoe better not be packing clothes for warm weather. he will need jackets, long underwear & gloves for cold temps. Smile

Andrew818
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I like DeRozan a lot.He is explosive,an improving defender,and a big 2 guard but isn't right for our team.We need shooting and DeRozan isn't a shooter.Rather have Affalo,even though he isn't as young and explosive he fits our team a lot better than DeRozan would.Also I hope we don't try and get Bargnani.He isn't a good rebounder or defender.He can shoot but is injured a lot.Not worth taking on his contract.

ClipperKyle32
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Afflalo or Barnes

Offense or Defense

What is needed more

Jerediscool
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we can have both

wholesum
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Kind of random for my first post, but oh well. As far as I know, Afflalo is a solid defender as well as an offensive threat. I like him a lot, but I'm still wondering whether he or Crawford would be playing late game situations. Maybe both with Afflalo at the 3?

Getting Matt Barnes back would be nice too.

Battlegun
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Welcome Wholesum. I agree that signing Matt is highly recommended and should be done first before focusing on a starting shooting guard.

Clippersfan86
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Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS 1m

Clips-Magic still discussing Afflalo for Bledsoe/Butler swap, source says. Theory: LA wants to see OJ Mayo/Tony Allen pursuit through first.

david
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^^I wonder why not do both and get Afflalo and Tony Allen? I mean Tony Allen can come via FA, and Afflalo via the trade. Either one of them can slide in at SF. The small forward position would be a bit undersized, but should work against most teams.

Clippersfan86
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Man can we please trade for Arron already?

http://www.arronafflalo4.com/news/diffe ... n-training

Love his attitude, he's looking to dominate next year. I don't want to play hardball and end up with somebody far less talented.

LeftHook
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I'm happy that they're still discussing this, but is it really Bledsoe/Butler for just Afflalo? My #1 choice would be Afflalo, Mayo 2nd.

I'm thinking, we went 56 wins with an invisible starting Billups, with a lot of help from Crawford and Willie, I'm just excited with an actual starting SG that will actually play. Not only shoot, but defend????

ClippersDA
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I feel like afflalo, reddick and mayo are all pretty similar - but afflalo seems to fit our team the best. I hpe this goes through, and i'd love a draft pick.

jarca
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This! If we're able to keep Barnes,watch out league we're gonna lock people up

david
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Ditto- the Clippers should get that trade done already, and then fill the remaining holes.

ClippersDA
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I feel like Doc is going to hold onto bled until it's too late - he gives us a lot, but we need a more permanent building block.

david
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That would be awesome to have Barnes as an integral part of the second unit again. He can start against the bigger SF's if need be as well.

Hooligans
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Repped High Quality Post

Not sure if Afflalo/Nicholson for Bledsoe/Butler was ever on the table, but if it is? You gotta take it. At some point the F.O has to pull the trigger on a trade, I think ultimately Bledsoe will want to be a starting Point Guard, leading his own team. While the clippers could use some players that can fit in seamlessly.

Afflalo is the better fit (compared to Mayo/Redick) IMO because of his ability to play off the ball and he can slide down to SF while we play small-ball without being a liability on the defensive end. Nicholson is money from mid-range and that would do wonders for Chris, Blake, and even DJ.

@David I'm intrigued by the idea of getting both Allen/Afflalo. I've seen TA lock up Durant who has a good 6-7 inches on him. Another option could be splitting the MLE between Barnes and D. Wright. Both long defenders who can hit the 3-ball.

LeftHook
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What are the downsides to Afflalo?

I guess I'm just looking at it in a weird way. Billups at SG was almost non-existent. Bring in Afflalo with his shooting and defense = upgrade.

Markojaric
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maybe the prospect to nail a 3rd star and make a big three is the main reason to have doubts with AA. Solid pro, as a 3rd or 4th fiddle wont dissapoint, but if were trading blesdoe, maybe people will expect to add a star or somebody close to stardom.

david
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Dorrell Wright sounds like a solid option- obviously a good 3 point shooter with solid defense (from what I've heard).

He can start at SF, and assuming the Afflalo trade goes through, we've got shooters and defense at SF and SG. Nice. Sounds like OKC is trying hard to sign him, however, and hopefully the FO considers him.

LeftHook
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I don't know how my post ended up in the Reddick thread, but I was talking about Afflalo. He's the only SG I'd be comfortable with playing for our team. The others have way too many question marks. Let's get this done, Doc.

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