Insider: How Hill's Retirement Helps Clippers.

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uncool
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Grant Hill struggled with injuries this season and to no surprise he decided to retire over the weekend. His decision will give the Los Angeles Clippers some help staying below the 2013-14 luxury tax line.

Hill was owed $2.04 million next season, but he only had $500,000 worth of salary protection if he was waived prior to the start of July. Hill will still be on the books for $500,000 unless he takes a lower number via a buyout. Either way, Hill's decision will help the Clippers.

Currently they have about $44 million in total salaries for next season, but that can be reduced if they waive DaJuan Summers and Maalik Wayns. Both those players have no salary protection for 2013-14. Willie Green also has no salary protection, however the Clippers are expected to keep him.

The Clippers, should Summers and Wayns be waived, will enter July with just six players under contract. Chris Paul is expected to re-sign and his salary will come in at around $18.6 million if he is signed to a max deal. The team also wants to bring back Matt Barnes, Chauncey Billups and probably Ryan Hollins.

The Clippers will fill out the roster with their 2013 first round pick and minimum contracts. It's going to be close, but they may be able to stay just under the tax line due to the extra room provided by Hill's retirement. If they go over it will be less than it would have been with Hill on the roster.

Clippers_FTW
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Expected to resign Chauncey Billips???? WHAT? He better come in looking like he's found the fountain of youth... cuz he looked really bad during the playoff's.

BoomRizzle
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^

wait till we hire george karl and CP instantly becomes the back up point guard Very Happy

Clippersfan86
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I'm good at Bringing Willie back but Billups? Wtf man. We need Hollins more than ever now. He won't be afraid to call even Billups out.

Clippers_FTW
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we need a coach that demands more respect than chauncey....

illastrate
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Please no Chauncey or Hollins. I'm fine with Green. We NEED wing defenders and better backup bigs.

Silasie
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Billups???????? Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

jtwinnaz
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billups can be the backup pg if/when we trade bledsoe. still better than most backup pgs.. plus he provides leadership and is a former finals mvp which you cannot measure by his numbers. i wouldnt mind keeping him at all.

ClippersRise
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I'd rather keep Wayne at backup pg tbh

GhostShip
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I would rather pick someone on this site then have billups on next years team

uncool
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If he's a backup pg I'm fine but only if we sign OJ Mayo or get EJ or Tony Allen so there's no confusion of who our starting 2 guard is so we have size to defend other 2s. But the times Chauncey played pg with the 2nd unit, which was rare, he ran the team exceptionally well! VDN was just too dumb to see it! He & JC played well off each other.

jtwinnaz
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what did wayne ever do to impress you? what happens if paul goes down again? wayne is gonna run this team?

jtwinnaz
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if we trade bledsoe its gonna be for a starting sg. there is no way we trade bledsoe and dont get a good wing player in return. we are trying to win now.

jtwinnaz
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good thing you are not in our front office.

AirGriffin
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May God help us if Billups comes back. It's almost annoying! Why beat a dead horse? just lay down already and retire like G Hill. I'm not forgetting or forgiving him on turning the ball over with what like 3 minutes left in Game 6? totally killed our momentum....and this is a "veteran".... smh

Agent0
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Okay, so the team is either buying him out or waving him, I knew that unless he filed for retirement it the league, which most players don't do, he's still on the cap. The saving grace is that he's only guaranteed $500K

jtwinnaz
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i just hope if we buy him out we get a good backup for cp3.

ClippersRise
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Repped High Quality Post

jtwinnaz wrote:
ClippersRise wrote:
I'd rather keep Wayne at backup pg tbh

what did wayne ever do to impress you? what happens if paul goes down again? wayne is gonna run this team?

What did Billups do to impress you this past season? What happens to the Spurs if Duncan goes down? What if LeBron goes down? If he is injured during the playoffs it won't matter cause no team goes far without their Star.

AirGriffin
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ClippersRise wrote:
jtwinnaz wrote:
ClippersRise wrote:
I'd rather keep Wayne at backup pg tbh

what did wayne ever do to impress you? what happens if paul goes down again? wayne is gonna run this team?

What did Billups do to impress you this past season? What happens to the Spurs if Duncan goes down? What if LeBron goes down? If he is injured during the playoffs it won't matter cause no team goes far without their Star.

Agree, nice way to put it. And what did happen when CP did go down this season? Billups couldn't even play cause he was injured himself!!!! lol he is a liability and if I remember correctly Bledsoe didn't necessarily shine we went 7-7 without Paul.... any backup that is better than bledsoe that comes off the bench would be an Allstar so it's not like just anyone could replace CP anyway.

clipperstown
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hopefully with an off-seasons rest, chauncey can heal up more and try to get his game back

Agent0
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The problem with Billups coming back is that he won't be content as a 13-15 minute backup, and I don't want a player that a coach feels obligate to play because of reputation. I would only bring him back if during contract negotiations, we're on the same page about his role.

Diamond909
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No to chauncy! no to ryan! GK if we get him i pray that we can get over the hump better than his last teams.

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Clippersfan86
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Wow Wyans was great,every minute he got, almost better than Bledsoe and people want to disrespect? He,deserves another crack at backup PG.

JoeClipplet
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We can measure it by last year's PATHETIC play... turning over balls, missing wide open shots (and missing them by a mile)...

OH AND FATHER TIME Constantly on his heels... which is why he was always a defensive liability.

The once Finals MVP... now pretty much SUCKS.

  • JC
Agent0
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Wayns is a tough one, I'd like him back, but his play was too small of a sample size. He played 6 games and a total of 37 minutes. We would be judging him on the equivalent of one games starters minutes.

He was not nearly as impressive in his 21 games, 7.9 MPG, 165 minutes with Philadelphia.

Clippersfan86
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Small sample but the skillset is there. Being a backup PG in the NBA isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. He might get 6-7 minutes TOPS per game at PG backing up CP3.

AirGriffin
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I feel confident in Wayns and trust him. He's always tweeeting about gymming it and working hard. The worth ethic is there and that's the most important. Under CP she should develop just fine if you ask me. Wayns is a good prospect.

Agent0
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Paul doesn't play 41-42 MPG, so he would be in closer to 12 MPG if he's the main backup, that's 1/4th of the game, pretty signifiant.

My point is that we can't be sure, anyone can look good in only 37 minutes. In the same season, he had a .356 TS%, 12.2 pts, 1.1 reb, 4.4 assists 2.8 to per 36 with 20% 3PT, 5.0 PER in 21 games with Philly and playing 165 minutes.

As much as it was cool to see his good minutes, it's definitely an outlier when it's only 18% of his minutes.

In 198 minutes in the D-League, he did pretty well outside of 5.1 TO/36, but D-League is a different animal. His last year in Villanova he shot 29.8% 3PT, career 29.1%, averaged 3 TO to 4.6 assists, career 2.3 TO to 3.4 assists. So it would definitely be bad managing to just solidify him as your backup PG. You bring him to camp with an unguaranteed contract and make him fight for it along with some other FA's. 6 games and 37 minutes vs everything else last year and his past 3 years is how guys like Jerome James get big contracts Wink (don't worry, I know it's a bit different comparison, he isn't a contract, but a role)

Clippersfan86
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I think with Crawford playing a few minutes at PG like usual 7-10 at most is more realistic. Bottom line is... he's a hard worker, looked improved from Philly days and I loved every minute he was out there. Smart passer (I saw the A/TOR but this year was good), loves to run, can shoot and he puts effort into D. I'm specifically in his corner right now because he was the first player in the gym this summer. After the playoffs like a week later the kid was tweeting about getting up shots with Summers+Turiaf etc. Like Airgriffin said he's constantly posting pics of workouts. The guy is a gym rat.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Chauncey would get brought back to play minutes at the 1 and 2. I really want Chauncey to just retire. His numbers are going to be garbage again and I can't see him really helping this team out. He'd be great to use as some sort of coach or given a position within the team doing something. And this is no ill will towards Chauncey, he's had a tremendous career but I think he's holding on a little too tightly to the game.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Agent0 wrote:
Wayns is a tough one, I'd like him back, but his play was too small of a sample size. He played 6 games and a total of 37 minutes. We would be judging him on the equivalent of one games starters minutes.

He was not nearly as impressive in his 21 games, 7.9 MPG, 165 minutes with Philadelphia.

Being a backup PG in the NBA isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

Being a backup ANYTHING in the NBA is as important as people are making it out tot be and more. Quality productive, scheme specific epth is the most important in the game. I feel like the Clipper backups won quite a few games in the last couple years. You're only as good as your role players.

Agent0
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Doesn't Crawford playing PG want to make you puke? Crawford only played PG when Paul was injured, he brought the ball up sometimes, but that's different from playing PG. With Paul at 34 MPG and Bledsoe at 14, all Pag minutes were gone when both were healthy, thankfully.

Crawford 7-10 minutes at PG would not have been pleasant to watch.

There are a lot of gym rats in the NBA, some succeed, some don't, some don't post pics to tell anyone about it. Keep working, but that doesn't mean he's going to be a good backup. There's no need to commit to him, there are cheap proven backups available. Bring him to camp, see what he's got, but filling roles on a professional team is about production more than liking a player or his work ethic, because not being good enough is just not being good enough.

If he can, send him to summer league. For training camp, bring in Wayns, some decent guy who will ultimately be undrafted, some D-League guy, let them battle it out.

Clippersfan86
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LuvMeSumMEE wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Agent0 wrote:
Wayns is a tough one, I'd like him back, but his play was too small of a sample size. He played 6 games and a total of 37 minutes. We would be judging him on the equivalent of one games starters minutes.

He was not nearly as impressive in his 21 games, 7.9 MPG, 165 minutes with Philadelphia.

Being a backup PG in the NBA isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

Being a backup ANYTHING in the NBA is as important as people are making it out tot be and more. Quality productive, scheme specific epth is the most important in the game. I feel like the Clipper backups won quite a few games in the last couple years. You're only as good as your role players.

Benches get minimized come playoff time as we all learned the hard way this year. Even the Spurs are going to the finals because of their dominance from starters while their bench has been mostly absent in these playoffs. It's not bad to have good bench players but we don't need to put resources into backup PG really.

AirGriffin
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^ Exactly!

This is a MAJOR reason why we lost and why VDN was a bad coach to me.

He tried playing the whole roster at times and that was supposedly our "strength" but it's completely different in the playoffs. VDN didn't have a tighter rotation between our starting 5 and some of the bench, incorporating only the best from the bench. And to be honest our starting sucks BAD. DJ has no BBIQ and no hustle, Butler and Billups and DJ all combined for 2 points in one game. Butler disappears for most of our games and doesn't seem to have a role. Billups is old and can barely keep up and can't hit half of his shots. Our only legitimate starters are Griffin and Paul. And that's what the clippers main weaknesses have been from this year to last. Our starting 5 is weak compared to others. Your bench factor isn't as significant in the playoffs.

Clippersfan86
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Seriously Vinny was a joke. Then he disrespects Hill and doesn't play him once in the playoffs until game 6? Like WTF was he thinking?

Amnesty_David_Stern
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He was probably thinking Grant Hill is 41 years old and isn't much of anything anymore, and rarely played more than 5 minutes a game most nights during the regular season. Thus he wasn't a part of our Tribe Called Bench really at all.

What were the chances Grant Hill went off or made a giant contribution to this team that would have helped us beat Memphis? Probably 2% max.

jtwinnaz
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if we dont bring back billups we will have to get a pg at the vet min. good luck finding a quality backup better than billups. he doesn't have to close out games. he just needs to keep the lead when cp3 goes out or help shoot us out of a slump. he can draw fouls and get the other teams bigs in foul trouble. no rookie gets calls. we can bring back guys like waynes with promise for cheap too, but we need a proven player to back up paul and keep our engine running.

im not saying we need to bring billups back, but you guys are being mighty hard on the guy. he just came back from an achilles injury last year and was never healthy. he says he is feeling good this year and we should give him another chance before a team like the heat nabs him make us regret not keeping him.

AirGriffin
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I'm totally on board with bringing back Billups as a backup point guard but he might want to start at the 2. Thats my problem he's not a SG and definitely not a starter.

At PG he plays much better as he doesn't move without it! He needs to play PG behind Paul, thats one thing that sucked about VDN he wanted to have Billups start where there was no need or use for him. And Billups shouldn't be one of our BEST players....IMO he shouldn't be closing out games well at least not frequently.

tense2
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We need to get a starting sg and sf this year, then Billups (if he stays) can go back to his preferred and natural position, pg....as a back up that is.

AirGriffin
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Exactly my thoughts. Billups can help lead the second unit and play at his perferred position at PG where he's better at.

Getting a starting SF and SG is top priority.

I feel like DJ is going to stay, but the new coach is going to make him work and hustle.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Benches are only minimized if they get outplayed by the other team's bench. Memphis won because of their stars, but the Clippers may have still pulled it off if Pondexter, Bayless, Aurthur, and T Prince didn't roll the Clipper bench up.

I'm sorry........but Neal, Green, Splitter, Diaw, and Joseph have NOT been absent in this year's playoffs. Even with the Big 3 Miami still finds a way to squander games when Battier, Birdman, Cole, and Miller don't put them within Lebron's striking distance.

Your stars don't get the chance to make memories unless your bench players give them opportunity to do so...

I agree that we don't need a TON of resources thrown into the backup PG spot, but it does need to be addressed if Bledsoe is really considered a tradable commodity. I think there's a considerable drop-off between someone like Waayns and a player like Reggie Jackson.......who I believe has stepped up and proven that he can play pretty well against other starting caliber players (after BWest's injury).

what_up_clipnation83
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U right our starting 5 was our weakest link save for CP3 & Blake.

I'll low-key take this starting 5:

B. Diddy

EJ

Ryan Gomes

Young BG

Caveman

over:

CP3

Billups

Butler

BG

DJ

just substitute CP in for B. Diddy and Matty B in for Gomes

Chris Paul

Eric Gordon

Matty Barnes

Young Blake Griffin

Chris Kaman

Western Conference Champs!

BACON
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Agent0
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No one is against Billups as a backup PG except for maybe him. As a Clipper he's either a 13-14 MPG backup or he's playing some SG, and I just don't want him at SG. Maybe if Crawford wasn't a 6th man. No one wants him starting.

In terms of role, he could find other options:

Indiana: current backup PG, D.J. Augustin, sign Billups. Hill 28 mins / Billups 20 mins

Houston: I know they have Lin and , but Billips could be a good stabilizing presence at PG

Dallas: Don't think they are bringing Collison back, Billups is a good vet PG to fill the role when they don't get Paul, and of the bring Collison back, they were using him off the bench anyways, and Billups is better than Mike James

ToadVine
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So we basically would have the same team. And we'll drop out in the first or second round again. Because we still have gimpy Butler and softy DJ.

Hooligans
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I don't see a scenario in which the clippers don't dip into the luxury tax this upcoming season, unless they want another 1st round exit.

I've seen others mention this but, we went from having a very young/promising team in 2011/2012 to an slow/old team this year. Veteran "savvy" is overrated sometimes, and Billups was a prime example of that when he brought no intangibles and was painful to watch in the quarter of the season that he actually played. I know some on this forum aren't too high on Afflalo (I agree that the clippers need to get the right value in return for Bledsoe), but do you have any idea how much better the clippers would be with a reliable 3rd option? One that is a guaranteed 15+ points a night who can D up as well?

Congrats to Hill though! Sad to see these old players from my childhood retiring.

Agent0
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^How many points is Afflalo guaranteed in the playoffs though, during winning time? Maybe 15 points, but it if it takes 14-15 FGA, then what exactly is the value there? Go check his playoff numbers, and he's an above average defender, not a high tier one.

Luxury is about $70-71M

$45.3M add...

Paul: $18.7M (8 players)

MLE Player(s): ~$5M (at least 9 players)

Total Salary: $69M

So after signing Paul and using the MLE, Clippers will be close to tax land. Tax when less than $5M over luxury is $1.50 for each dollar, so that becomes a factor in FA signing, and repeat tax is $2.50, but with Butler going off the books, that shouldn't happen.

Hooligans
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Afflalo, relative to Chauncey Billups/Randy Foye/Willie Green is a consistent 3rd option. There are surely better options, but are they available? I do like Dudley who you mentioned in the other thread.

And I thought Paul's next contract was 5 years 110 million? Although I'm not sure I ever remember seeing a source on that one.

david
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Yep- you're pretty much as good as the best 5 you can put out on the floor during the playoffs. Depth is great during the regular season, but during the playoffs, you're in trouble if their best 5 man unit outclasses your best 5. That was pretty much what happened vs the Grizzlies.

That said, I'm not sold either as Agent0 on Waynes. We definitely need to see him play more before anointing him as the backup PG if we trade E-Bled. A good bench can get you quite a few extra wins during the regular season, which is key for playoff seeding.

toohipcliptoslip
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Billups should retire. He embarrassed himself and was injured 3/4 of the season. He doesn't have it and he's a detriment to the team

As far as Hill that last injury killed him. He was shooting less that 50% in shoot around. He got better as the year progressed but his shot wasn't there.

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