Has Blake Griffin Deviated from What Made Him Successful?

Clippers TopBuzz Forum/Message Board » Clippers News & General Discussions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Search This Topic:
 
pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24
 

As I watch the NBA finals i can't help but watch Chris Bosh and see how ineffective the concept of a shooting big man is (of course Dirk Nowitzki is the exception and not the rule). I look at how important it is to have your big men be physical and focus on defense and scoring in the paint. In the past the common criticism of Blake Griffin was that he was only a highlight reel player. Flashy dunks but no fundamentals, he followed that criticism by adding a shot to his arsenal and using the glass as a way to score his points. But has he deviated too far from what makes him successful. Now don't get me wrong Clipper nation. I love that Blake can do more than dunk. And adding a shot is beneficial, but does he rely too much on that shot and transitioned more to a finness player like a Chris Bosh?

I was wondering what clipper nation thought about this issue. Because i wonder if that dominant dunker (whom i can't recal many people blocking in that first year he took the league by storm) mentality might have been a difference maker against the grizzlies?

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

No, he hasn't, he needs to have both the ability to shoot and play like rookie Blake. In addition, the team has gotten better and Blake's minutes went down this season, but his efficiency has been up. Bosh is in this role because of the team is one, they need him as a spacer and don't run post up plays for him. They have has the best offense in the playoffs and I believe the best in the regular season, clearly it is working.

I'm not worried, Blake is a smart player

....and about a shooting big man, that has been Duncan's greater role in the Spurs offense now, pick and pop or role, they use him less as a post up guy. In the finals, shooting big men:

Duncan

Bosh

Bonner

Haslem

Diaw

WCF:

Marc Gasol

ECF:

David West

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

All I know is last year (2011-2012) he led the league in points in the paint and he also led the league in unadjusted +/- by a large margin.

This year, I think he was doing what Vinny and CP3 wanted him to do...take more jumpers and it probably did take a little off what made him special. Maybe it'll make him better in the long run...but this is kinda why I want Blake to have a big man by his side that does most of the mid range shooting while he does his thing inside.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24

great points agent0. Again i like Blakes shooting ability, but i think i miss some of that physicality he had in his rookie year. A balance of both would be nice. Still, its hard to peg Timmy as having a greater shooting role..the dude is just the perfect PF he just seems to do it all . Its like he cant be characterized as anything but just a well rounded player

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24

i know it just sucks that DJ was supposed to be that inside guy. With blake being such an effective shooter that opened up the paint for DJ, and he hasn't really capitalized, so our only option really is for Blake to be a little more balanced with the physical dunker he once was and the occasonal shooter to keep the defense guessing. it just sucks that DJ isn't doing S**t.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

Oh, and if you want a other good/championship team, Celtics with Garnett. OKC made the finals last season, Ibaka is a jump shooting PF.

Page, Duncan took

344 FGA (16-23)

232 FGA (10-16)

345 FGA (At the rim)

309 FGA (3-10)

817 jumpshot FGA out of his 1230 FGA on the season. Pop transformed the offense as Duncan has gotten older. He does still have his post skills, but they use him a lot less in that role these days

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1470

us.gif
votes: 9

Instead of seeing him work on his mid range jump shot, I would rather see him develop a consistent low post move. It seems like when he gets the ball on the block he kind of just wings it and is still able to somehow throw it in a decent amount of the time. But just imagine if he had a real low post move that was automatic.... he would be unstoppable.

His priorities this offseason should be:

  1. Low post moves

  2. Rebounding like he did in his rookie season

  3. Defense

  4. Jump shot/Free throw

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

Lucky for him he can do both

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

I'll tell you what I didn't like, him fronting ZBo to keep him off the boards. I know that SEEMED like a working strategy, but all it eventually did is keep BLAKE off the boards. Next season I want Blake to be Blake! I want him facing the basket when the ball goes up, even if it means elbowing or pushing his man (be it Zach or Marc). By Vinny telling our Bigs to front their man, he showed no respect for his players' own ability to rebound.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24

good stats to support your case agent0, but we forget that OKC has Perkins at Center (very defensive and a scorer seldom,but when he does its in the paint). So its hard to say if this is Ibaka being effective as a shooting PF or the fact that Perkins presence allows him to do that.

Essentially it comes down to the fact that if there is balance in the center yes a power forward can be a finess player and shoot, but in that absence then it become s a dteriment to become a finess/shooter when the fundamentals like defense and paint points aren't there.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

Perkins sucks, but Perkins defense has nothing to do with what Ibaka does on offense. Offensively Perkins draws no attention to open anything up for Ibaka, he plays off Westbrook and Durant, he's a pick and pop guy. There would be no change in his offensive game if Perkins wasn't there

Also being a shooter on offense has no bearing on what your defensive talent is. The Thunder for example have no post up big man option offensively they have a floor spacer and an offensive stiff. Perkins is there for defense, doesn't even rebound well.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24

its hard for me to counter your arguemnts..greatly argued BTW. But consider this if you don't have to focus solely one side of the ball that leaves you all the time to game plan for the other. Ibaka being able to be a shooter does have something to do with Perkins playing solid defense, if Perkins wasn't there the next guy to be burdened with the defensive anchor would be ibaka. You need a defensive stopper and if its not coming from the center then the PF is the next guy downt he line burdened with that. Of course we will never know this because we can't have a do over of the Thunders history without Perkins, but somehow i think if perkins isn't there Ibaks isn't the same offensive guy.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

Ibaka and Perkins are an interesting mix defensively, Ibaka is the roamer and shot blocker that deters you from the paint, while Perkins is more of the man to man defender. Ibaka still puts in work defensively, it's not like he has to create much on offense, so he isn't expending much energy there. He doesn't really have a situation where either side of the floor deters for his effectiveness on the other.

You can look at 10-11 before Perkins came. Ibaka put up 9.9 pts / 7.6 rebs / 54.3% FG / 27 mins. Next season with a full year of Perkins, 9.1 pts / 7.5 rebs / 53.5% FG / 27.2 MPG, drop off can be given to lock out, so he was essentially he exact same player production wise. There was no change in his offensive production with or without Perkins and he had the larger defensive load in 10-11 before Perkins came because I believe Krstic was the starting C. Ibaka was the defensive guy along with Collison.

There are a good amount of bigs that do both, M.Gasol, Duncan, Garnett, Howard, Hibbert, Noah is a good passer and finisher offensively, but it's less about the burden of offense taking away from defense or vice versa for them and more about the physical ability and talent.

Those ones are more anchors, solid defenders, we can add Bosh in Miami, Pau Gasol in his better years. Blake doesn't really have the physical traits of an anchor big man, generally long arms, good reach, etc, so in general he's already disadvantaged in that.

Blake is more capable of having a Lebron type defensive impact than that of a regular anchor big. That kind of impact though is a bit harder and more energy consuming because its about covering a lot of ground on the court.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4529

us.gif
votes: 24

^^^I noticed that about Blake. his arms are rather small and it is a huge disadvantage. I look at how durant gives other players such fits and it is those long arms of his.

Keatonsays
Clipper Starter
Age: 24
Posts: 888

calif.gif
votes: 6

This is incredibly accurate. We've all noticed that Blake has improved dramatically on the defensive end, becoming more active in the passing lanes, and playing great man on man defense. I wonder if this is directly connected to his new found tendency to settle for jumpshots rather than use his physicality to score inside.

It takes a lot of energy to score inside, and Blake takes more and harder hits than just about anybody in the NBA. Those two factors coupled with the increased energy consumption on the defensive end would do well to explain the change in offensive focus, along with the overall desire to become a more well rounded player.

The only thing about becoming a mid range shooter, is it will surely hurt his offensive rebounding ability. My biggest concern though, is the defensive rebounding. Blake doesn't go after the boards as hard as he used to because our offense was so dependent on our ability to get out on the break. The problem with that is DJ isn't a particularly good defensive rebounder, so without Blake to snatch the boards, we end up giving up too many offensive rebounds to opponents.

I expect Blake will dramatically improve once we have some sort of offensive system in place that isn't completely dependent on our ability to get out in transition. Once that happens Blake should be able to get back to doing what brought him early success as well as improve in other areas.

JahvonTheClip
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 2979
votes: 5

If we get a coach like Hollins ,or even Hollins, he would for sure tell both of the bigs to stay grounded and stress crashing the glass. We can't start a fastbreak without a rebound, so yeah.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4133
votes: 38

Yea, it definitely is helpful, it's part of why Bosh fits really well in Miami's overall defense, he's mobile, has length and can cover a lot of space both vertically and laterally.

@Keatonsays, that is an issue, but I don't know if he needs to shoot more mid-range jumpshots, he just needs to make more. Rookie Blake took a lot of jumpshots, just that he took more assisted ones from 16-23 while this year he was creating more from there, and that's what he shouldn't do as much. He should be able to knock down the 16-23 foot shot, but not create those shots too much.

Rookie: 632 Jumpshots (32.3%) / 1376 Total FGA / 45.9% of shots

Sophomore: 529 jumpshots (31.8%) / 1022 Total FGA / 51.8% of shots

Third Year: 534 jumpshots (33.0%) / 1072 Total FGA / 49.8% of shots

No significant increase, though the shots he's taken have changed. As a rookie he took more jumpshots from posting up, the fadeaway jumpshots in the 10-15 area. Those were not really good shots for him to take, but that's an area he's gotten a lot better in. He's drifted more to the perimeter with his spot up shooting, and gone away from the bank shot which he used in his rookie year, and accounted for his career high in 10-15 FGA's. The interesting development this season is that he shot a career high from 10-15 while being assisted a lot less than his usual. His 16-23 percentages were down, but he was being assisted about 10% less than usual which means he was creating more there, and it wasn't terrible for him.

16-23 Feet

10-11: 212 FGA (33.5% FG) / 83.1% Assisted

11-12: 248 FGA (37.1% FG) / 81.5% Assisted

12-13: 259 FGA (34.0% FG) / 72.7% Assisted

10-15 Feet:

10-11: 141 FGA (29.8% FG) / 57.1% Assisted

11-12: 74 FGA (28.0% FG) / 52.4% Assisted

12-13: 109 FGA (35.8% FG) / 38.5% Assisted

Also Blake could be like Ryan Anderson who is the exception to the rule and shoots 8 three's per 36 minutes for his career but has a career average of 3.2 ORebs/36, 10.3 ORB%.

Blake has career per 36 averages of 3.0 Orebs/36 and a 9.9 ORB%, so Ryan Anderson a 3PT shooter is a better offensive rebounder, impressive isn't it?

Keatonsays
Clipper Starter
Age: 24
Posts: 888

calif.gif
votes: 6

Agent0 wrote:
pageC4 wrote:
^^^I noticed that about Blake. his arms are rather small and it is a huge disadvantage. I look at how durant gives other players such fits and it is those long arms of his.
Yea, it definitely is helpful, it's part of why Bosh fits really well in Miami's overall defense, he's mobile, has length and can cover a lot of space both vertically and laterally.

@Keatonsays, that is an issue, but I don't know if he needs to shoot more mid-range jumpshots, he just needs to make more. Rookie Blake took a lot of jumpshots, just that he took more assisted ones from 16-23 while this year he was creating more from there, and that's what he shouldn't do as much. He should be able to knock down the 16-23 foot shot, but not create those shots too much.

Rookie: 632 Jumpshots (32.3%) / 1376 Total FGA / 45.9% of shots

Sophomore: 529 jumpshots (31.8%) / 1022 Total FGA / 51.8% of shots

Third Year: 534 jumpshots (33.0%) / 1072 Total FGA / 49.8% of shots

No significant increase, though the shots he's taken have changed. As a rookie he took more jumpshots from posting up, the fadeaway jumpshots in the 10-15 area. Those were not really good shots for him to take, but that's an area he's gotten a lot better in. He's drifted more to the perimeter with his spot up shooting, and gone away from the bank shot which he used in his rookie year, and accounted for his career high in 10-15 FGA's. The interesting development this season is that he shot a career high from 10-15 while being assisted a lot less than his usual. His 16-23 percentages were down, but he was being assisted about 10% less than usual which means he was creating more there, and it wasn't terrible for him.

16-23 Feet

10-11: 212 FGA (33.5% FG) / 83.1% Assisted

11-12: 248 FGA (37.1% FG) / 81.5% Assisted

12-13: 259 FGA (34.0% FG) / 72.7% Assisted

10-15 Feet:

10-11: 141 FGA (29.8% FG) / 57.1% Assisted

11-12: 74 FGA (28.0% FG) / 52.4% Assisted

12-13: 109 FGA (35.8% FG) / 38.5% Assisted

Also Blake could be like Ryan Anderson who is the exception to the rule and shoots 8 three's per 36 minutes for his career but has a career average of 3.2 ORebs/36, 10.3 ORB%.

Blake has career per 36 averages of 3.0 Orebs/36 and a 9.9 ORB%, so Ryan Anderson a 3PT shooter is a better offensive rebounder, impressive isn't it?

notworthy

Go To the Top of the ThreadGo Home

or Comment Using FB

Post new topic   Reply to topic


← Is Blake Griffin "Soft"?

→ Crazy Clippers and Celtics Connection

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

register
You are an anonymous user- Register now!


Follow our Los Angeles Clippers RSS Feed, plus the Clippers Rumors RSS Feed, the LA Clippers News RSS feed, and the Clippers Forum RSS feed to get the newest updated Clippers News and Trade Rumors plus Clippers Game update in your RSS/XML reader!