Eric Bledsoe for DeMar DeRozan/Andrea Bargnani Rumor (P. 3)

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Clippersfan86
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Thanks man, appreciate the kind words. I always try to be fair and NOT act like a douche.

CP3Heliflopter
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So just because he is athletic he has defensive ability? He has been a terrible defender his entire career under a defensive minded coach. Guess what? Amare Stoudemire had defensive ability and he never became a good defender. Even under Rivers there is no guarantee he becomes a good defender. I don't care what numbers he put up on a garbage team where he can stat pad. He can't shoot.

Basically you want 3 guys who can't shoot as starters. There will be no driving lanes and the offense would be terrible. You want to trade a good asset for an average player at best(who put up a below average PER on a bad team where he could stat pad). Guess what even players like Jeremy Lin can put up way better stats on a team like the Craptors. In fact, he did that on the Knicks without Melo and had way better production than DD.

Not to mention DD is overpaid.

You want to give a nice asset for a guy who has negative value due to his contract, who isn't a good fit. I really don't get your mindset at all but if you still want to claim that this is a good trade I won't stop you.

I am not trying to be a prick but I am tired of people clamoring for trades when the player they want is

1) An even worse fit.

2) Not very good.

3) Overpaid.

I keep seeing ridiculous trades on this forum all the time like DJ for Mullens or DJ for Perkins and I hate DJ. Sorry but the grass is always greener.

Clippersfan86
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Derozan isn't as bad as what you're making him sound is my point. He's a below average defender, not a "terrible" one. Being an elite defender doesn't matter when you're a 6'0 PG. I think he's the best PG defender in the game and can guard some SG's but he's a liability as a whole there. I'm not claiming this trade is undoubtedly good, just saying I'd personally take Derozan. I've watched him enough times to see how talented he is. I think next to a PG like CP3 and a high quality coach like Doc, he will thrive. Casey hasn't proven jackshit as a coach, even if he claims he's a defense first coach.

ekker3
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i just threw up in my mouth.

Clippersfan86
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http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtop ... ;t=1103208

Here you go, lots of Raptors fans chiming in. Basically like I said every Raptors fan is saying his defense isn't bad, it's just bad coaching, bad system. Say defensive effort is good and he's willing. A lot of quotes like this from Raptors fans.

"With DeMar, I don't think it's lack of effort, I think it has to do with inexperience and coaching. I think a lot of the lapses I see with him have to do with him getting caught on screens, and sometimes he plays his man up too close (like when he's glued to a guy who's behind the 3pt line).

That's one of the main reasons I'm hoping we can bring in a coach that can help improve our players' individual and team defense. It's more than just having a defensive system, it's also about the nuances of executing said defense on an individual and team level, which is something I really get the feeling is outside of Triano's focus (or perhaps abilities) as a coach."

Sounds like I'm on the same page with Raptors fans who watch him every game. Razz Willing defender, improving defender, puts good defensive effort.. but needs better coaching and more time to develop.

CP3Heliflopter
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You haven't addressed the most important points....

He can't shoot and he is overpaid.

How exactly is he going to thrive next to CP3 when he can't shoot? Is he going to slash and cut all game long? We already have two starters who can't shoot. Do you want to see the spacing with three players that can't shoot? It will be terrible.

Clippersfan86
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Another helpful quote about the flawed system/coaching in Toronto.

"I think its hard to play defence on this team, because you do not have a traditional centre that can cover for your mistakes.

Even Marion's D looked suspect on our team."

Shawn Marion is an ELITE perimeter defender even at this age. If he couldn't defend well in Toronto who can?

Clippersfan86
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Bledsoe doesn't come without risk of his own. While I'd love him tried out at SG for 30 minutes a game we have all seen that the few times he got big minutes his consistency starts to decline. Bledsoe can't shoot either really and will be getting a similar salary as a 6'0 SG. Bledsoe's shooting percentages are inflated due to VERY few attempts and most of his shots being at the rim but remember the guy shoots like 18 percent or something AWFUL anywhere between the rim and 3.

You just unknowingly described Bledsoe. Bledsoe is a slashing player, nowhere near a consistent shooter. Better defender but can't guard 2/3's consistently.

TheDude
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Derozan fills our needs just as Bargs does...But they're both bad contracts. We do them a huge favor by taking either of them, let alone both...That's why we can take Lowry and JV in this deal. If they want to call JV "untouchable", no worries. And of course NO DEAL! Have fun trying to create a competitive team with those two guys making 20mil between them and your "superstar lol" GaY making 17mil.

It's gonna take some tough decisions to make that team competitive. We're probably their best chance to get legit young talent and hit the reset button on their cap situation at the same time. If we don't bring back JV, get f*cked not happening.

Clippersfan86
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Raptors seem to think Val is the next Hakeem or something and overvalue the SH** out of him. No way they deal him for anybody. Detroit wants Bledsoe badly right? I'd do DJ+Bledsoe for Drummond+ a bad contract of their choosing like Ben Gordon in a heartbeat. Drummond is going to be the dominant center in the league in 3 years.

CP3Heliflopter
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1) Bledsoe is still a better shooter even if he shoots on lower volume and his 3 point % is inflated.

2) Bledsoe can guard 2s better than most 2s. He has an extremely long wingspan and that is what is important when playing defense not height.

3) I never said we should keep Bledsoe there are simply better options than DD.

We need to get guys who can actually fill needs. I rather just revisit the Orlando trade and not overpay for a guy who doesn't fit our team at all.

Clippersfan86
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Derozan has the better TS% on SIGNIFICANTLY more shot attempts. Both are average shooters at best. It's negligible so stop using that in the argument like it's a deal breaker. If Bledsoe shot 15 shots a game, his shooting numbers would sink at this point because his shot is that inconsistent. Bledsoe cannot guard BIG SG's/SF's better than Derozan because he can't guard them period. He's an ELITE PG defender who can guard a handful of 2's, that's it. Derozan will ALWAYS be a more versatile defender due to his size. Derozan has 1.5 inch edge on wingspan but whopping 4+ inches edge on standing reach.

I'm torn between Afflalo and Derozan because Derozan is 4 or 5 years younger, has supreme athleticism and will run the floor beautifully with our guys and is a more deadly scorer right now.

Voyeur
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I'd rather go for Afflalo or keep Green for continuity...then concentrate on C and SF.

Clippersfan86
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Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m

In short: Sources say Clippers prefer Bargnani to DeRozan but are lukewarm to Toronto's pitch in either case, with Doc still so pro-Bledsoe

Good news for those against this is neither are likely. I'm totally down for Afflalo swap. Glad we are using teams like Toronto to boost Bledsoe's value haha.

Clippersfan86
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Not happy though about reading that Doc wants to keep both Bledsoe and DJ. At least one needs to go.

david
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No doubt DeMar Derozan is a very good player. I remember he always hurt the Clippers whenever we played the Raptors. Biggest concern for me as I mentioned is his 3 point shooting. Teams already pack the paint against us as is, and with Derozan they'll do it even more. Plus we'd be stuck with his big contract for 4 years. Afflalo would be a better fit because he is a much better shooter.

Voyeur
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Wow...I did not see that coming.

Clippersfan86
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Yea seriously. I understand not wanting either but PREFERRING Bargs to Derozan is laughable. Derozan may be a bad fit but at least can play. Bargs while talented has basically been a scrub falling further and further down rotation last 2 years on a team not even that talented.

david
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Yup- competition is always good. Let's see who can bid the highest....

Clippersfan86
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Yes David. Let them swirl like sharks while we sit back and wait.

CapsNClips
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Yo WTF?!? Why would we be more interested in Barg? I'd much rather try and get Andrew Bynum. Barg is just as much injury prone as Bynum and Bynum would only be about $2 mil more a year.

We'd also still have Bledsoe to flip for a good wing player which we don't have. Stupid stupid stupid

CapsNClips
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Hope you saved room for dessert because we want Barg more than DeRozen.

Clippersfan86
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Hahaha that's cold. He's going to have a seizure from that news. I know I almost did.

Agent0
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LOL thats funny, and guess who was the C, Bargnani!

Clippersfan86, Bledsoe won't necessarily just increase his shooting rate playing more minutes. If he plays more minutes, he will likely maintain the same shot rate he will likely landing the exact same spot in terms of TS%.

When a player isn't great you want efficiency. You can take inefficiency with players that do other things, though of course you still don't want that, but DeRozan's only basketball skill is scoring, he isn't a very high volume scorer (17-18 pts/36) or an efficient one (below league average TS%). Lucky for Bledsoe, his calling card is more of an all-round game and defense, so while you still want him to be efficient, because his volume isn't too high and the other things he provides, it's more manageable.

A 3/D wing has higher impact on a teams ability to win than an above average scorer with below average efficiency who doesn't do anything else significant on either side of the floor. It's just the reality of the situation, not all scoring is made equal.

CapsNClips
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This has to be Karma from when I said I'd rather have Barg than DJ right after the playoffs. No..no Basketball Gods, I meant to say Joakim Noah yeah that's what I meant, Joakim not Andrea.

AirGriffin
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Exactly.

Barg isn't great and Derozan isn't the best option considering we need spacers and deadly scorers from mid range and beyond the arc. And he is expensive.

I still say we give Butler and Bledsoe to Magic if they're still up to trade, and try to trade DJ to Portland for some good fits.

pmb0928
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We can do better, no need to be in a rush right now. Hold out.

clips15deep
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Marc Stein says the Clippers like Bargnani more than Derozan but are lukewarm about the Raptors offers.

Jerediscool
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https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/3 ... 8235257857

Apparently doc is a huge fan of derozan

CapsNClips
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Jerediscool wrote:
https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/351190488235257857

Apparently doc is a huge fan of derozan

Same guy who had faith in Jeff Green, Rondo, and Bradley?

Anyone else sorta have instant faith in DeRozen after hearing this? If Doc says he likes a kid I'm gonna piggy back on his opinion.

Hoop
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DeRozan is a younger version of Gay and when he ll be in Gays age, he will even be better than him. Yes he is a lousy 3PT Shooter but 1st he will improve in this and 2nd we would have to address this with role player like Korver. This is a one time chance getting him and if Docs considered about his defensive qualities he should TEACH him! Definetly it cant be the reason for not acquiring him. I am all down for it.

Heediot
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Bargs could be a good role player but not at his salary. The Mid-Level would be a nice number for him, too bad he isn't a FA.

DeRozan's skill-set doesn't help.

Hoop
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He is a big upgrade to Butler, so I cant see why his skill-set does not help. E.g. AA 3 Pt shooting is not that good either, if it is about that.

Heediot
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He's a pure slasher, with limited range. He can't handle the ball, lacks vision, and is average at shot creation. His defense is sub-par. He put up decent numbers because of heavy usage in Toronto. He doesn't do anything above average, he gets by on athleticism.

By the way, I live in Toronto, so I have a decent background about these two players.

hoopfanjd31
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Mark Stein is saying this morning that we may do Butler for Bargs and hold on to Bled. I'd be ok with that, provided we re-sign Barnes

uncool
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I'd love Bargs for Butler straight up but I hope we know we WILL be a tax team so we better win a ring! Lol

Mistwell
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I wouldn't take either one for free, much less for a valuable asset.

Hoop
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Okay, this is a solid background to talk about. I have seen him only last season vs. us ( where I thought hed be a hell of a player for us). There he did not show the weaknesses you mentioned at least not in any of that extend. As I said he ll soon be better than Gay. And heavy usage? You might have been right about that before Gays arrival but after? It does not seem so to me.

For sur id prefer someone with a skill-set of KD by far more if there would be someone like him out there. But he isnt and e.g. between AA and DM Id always choose Demar...

realbull17
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no bledsoe involved. wow. party1

BennyBeFly
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So we're allowed to trade Caron Butler for...Toronto's female sideline reporter? Who is Andrea Bargnani, she sounds pretty.

ClipperKyle32
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Who would you rather have Bargnani or Lamar??? Bargnani could possibly play as the Shane Battier role!!! except the non-existent defense but could Bargnani have better defense under a defensive Coach??? it is a possibility. I....

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BennyBeFly
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I'd rather have Lamar, he's tougher and has championship experience. That being said, I hope Lamar has been working on his game, and he better be willing to take the vets min to stay here.

CP3Heliflopter
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This x 10.

uncool
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Last year paying Lamar $8 mil for his production < Paying Bargnani $10 mil in the same role.

prokreation
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I'd rather trade Bledsoe for Afflalo than DeRozan. Afflalo is known to play hard every game and play DEFENSE. We need a wing defender who can shoot = Afflalo. He will shoot better FG% with CP3.

Trade Butler for Bargnani only if we get a future First round pick. Toronto isn't going anywhere for awhile with Rudy Gay as their #1. Gay is a scorer, not a leader. He's a poor man's Carmelo. The future raptors pick could be a Top 10 pick. Its a long shot but imagine if its a lottery pick and we add that to our core.

Bargnani: People forget Bargnani was an OVERALL #1 pick. He's a 7 footer who can shoot outside. We need a BIG who can draw defenders out so Blake and CP3 can work inside. Not like Deandre who doesn't do anything offensively. He doesn't even rebound. How many 7 footers can shoot outside? Dirk and Marc Casol. That's it. Bargnani has never had a great coach like Doc. I love Caron but his knees are toast. Bargnani allows us to bring DJ as a backup and also entertain trade offers. We're scared to trade Deandre bc what BIG do we have then that can shoot? RONY? RYAN HOLLINS? Bargnani makes Deandre more expendable. We become an entirely different team when our 7 footer draws their BIG out to the 3 point line or outside the freethrow line. More spacing. and CP3 is a surgeon when there's space.

If we can get a future First round pick from Toronto, do it. Bargnani + 1st Round Pick with Doc Rivers > Butler.

prokreation
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EXCITING TIME TO BE A CLIPPER FAN! So much going on!

and Also... The Lakers look so DESPERATE! Begging Dwight to Stay!

CapsNClips
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Butler for Bargniani is a way better trade. Do that. Then sign Brooks if he gets waived. Then trade Bledsoe for Granger, and finally sign Tony Allen.

I think we'd be way over the cap but I'm just saying those are the players I like for our roster.

Voyeur
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I do like the idea of a 7 footer who can shoot...it really would benefit Blake. But if we were to start a guy like that, we definitely need a SF that can rebound then. In fact, we would have to be inclined to start Barnes (if he stays) for his defense and rebounding. Plus, if having Barg means keeping BG in the paint, BG will DEFINITELY get more rebounds.

clipperboy24
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I wouldn't be opposed to the trade as a last option. We still might need butlers contract to pair with bledsoes

AirGriffin
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Barg and Derozan are money.

We don't need them anymore, Brooks and Delfino just got waived by the rockets. We need to sign both or Delfino at the least. He is a 2 way player SG-SF and can start at SF while we swing for Afflalo or Kirlinko. Then start Afflalo at the 2 or if we can't get him, get Kirlinko and start him at the 3 and put Delfino at the 2.

These are the players I see best fit. money wise, talent wise, etc.

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