Eric Bledsoe for DeMar DeRozan/Andrea Bargnani Rumor (P. 2)

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clippermitch
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Bledsoe should only be traded for a stud SG that is still on a rookie deal. While I like Derozen, he makes $8M a year. That's crazy!

des
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i like this trade but id rather have gerald green over derozen.

Agent0
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Bledsoe is a better all-round player than DeRozan, a higher impact defender, and if there is a SG that he's better than at spot up 3PT shooting, it is DeRozan, though DeRozan is a nice mid-range shooter.

This trade would be very good for Toronto to dump the contracts of DeRozan and Bargnani, the guy they got from Denver is already going to work cleaning up Colangelo's mess.

I'd rather pay Tyreke Evans $9M than DeRozan, Clippers loose all around in this trade.

Clippersfan86
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I read something about Ross and Bargs for DJ and Bled. Do it.

pageC4
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i just wonder how this would affect us financially

clipperAndrew
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that is a good point. Butler would be gone i assume.

pageC4
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i kind of wonder if all these talks, even the afflalo rumors, are a waste since doc wants this roster intact. Are these talks being initiated by sacks or is this with docs input?

CapsNClips
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I think we can get more. They like Ross, but they want Barg gone even more.

Agent0
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I watch a good amount of Raptors basketball as I like to follow them, which is why I can't be happy about DeRozan or Bargnani, and Ross is not very good himself. Amir Johnson as a backup PF/C? That is a move I would love.

DeRozan is worse than Bledsoe at spot up 3PT shooting, has suspect handles, won't necessarily benefit from Paul's preferred style of slower paced basketball, and he's not a good defender, average at best in case people think he is. So I guess I just don't see the value.

Bargnani is like a worse more expensive version of Frye. He's not a high percentage 3PT shooter, he's half the defensive rebounder Frye is, not as good an overall defender, and he's only decently efficient when you are using him as a 15-17 PPG scorer, so the thought that you're adding a 20 PPG scorer is inaccurate because if he's playing that role he's no longer an effective scorer.

tense2
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actually 9.5 per year x 4.

Agent0
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I thought it was $9M, even slightly worse, haha, and handicapped to him for 4 years, so next year when we're like "crap he doesn't fit and isn't that good", it will be a hard contract to trade. I think Nick Young is far greater value. Both weak all-round games, Young is longer and a better man to man defender, similar scoring rate and efficiency, and Young is a FAR superior outside shooter. You can get Young instead and save $5-6M if you really want a player like that.

....oh, and you don't loose any assets

tense2
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Bargnani owed 22 mil for 2 years. DeRozen is owed 38 mil for 4 years.

clipperstown
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bledsoe would be a better starting SG than any of the guys mentioned (afflalo, lowry, derozan)....

clippermitch
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I've always liked Nick Young. Thought it was stupid of the 76ers to give him a $6M deal for one year.

The problem with bringing more SGs in is they will just eat more of Bledsoe's minutes. Between Crawford, Billups, and Green, Bledsoe pretty much played when CP was resting or injured.

Like I said before, unless Bledsoe plays 25-30 minutes (15 mins backing up CP and 15 mins playing together), there's no point in keeping him. His impact is being on the court.

Hope Chauncey retires and just joins the coaching staff. He's more of an asset that way than playing.

Markojaric
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If BARGS comes to the clippers, my shrink inevitably will start to charge me the double.

BringKamanBack
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i would LOVE if we can trade DJ and Bledsoe for Rudy Gay & Valanciunas.

That's my dream trade.

Agent0
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Sorry, my Nick Young plan involves trading Crawford and making Bledsoe the 6th man, I should have mentioned that.

Voyeur
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Bledsoe and Caron for Rudy Gay??? Very Happy

david
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^^There we go- I'd like that trade better. Rudy Gay would be a great addition and worth it for Bledsoe and Caron.

Clippersfan86
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Gay, Derozan and Ross all seem to be the inconsistent types but all would be more capable than Bledsoe as consistent 2's.

Clippersfan86
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Derozan isn't that bad for a player forced to create so much of his own offense actually when you dig deeper. Look at Afflalo's year this year efficiency wise. It was awful because he went from 3rd option to 1st option with nobody to create for him. Derozan put up 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg and with Paul creating most of his offense and a top tier coach molding him.. I think he could be amazing for us TBH. I'd take Derozan over Gay and Ross. Looking at his game logs and he regularly fills the stat sheet. His quickness and athleticism means he has big defense POTENTIAL if a coach like Doc gets him to buy in. I'd do Bledsoe+Butler for Derozan straight up.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Rudy Gay is a beast.....but......is there really anything appealing about that deal if you're in Toronto's Front Office?

Voyeur
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Depends on how badly they want E Bled, I guess.

Clippersfan86
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David I edited the poll because it actually says EITHER one, not both. So I made the poll for each one, neither or if picks added. I structured it to where your votes would carry over to the proper slot.

ClippersSince97
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My vote is for NEITHER. Not "If they add a pick"... I don't know how you came to that conclusion when I voted "NO" before you had changed the polls.

CP3Heliflopter
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Don't want overpaid mediocre players. In the case of Bargnani overpaid horrendously bad players.

Meaning I don't want DD, Gay and I sure as hell don't want Bargnani. We can do waaaaaaay better than that and none of those players will help us much at any level. Bledsoe has way more value than any of them. Those guys don't even have positive value due to their contracts and aren't even a good fit.

DD and Gay can't shoot for crap and are inefficient, ball dominant scorers. Not to mention overpaid. Bargnani is just trash.

Someone explain to me how CP3 is going to make a player magically be able to shoot? Gay and DD are terrible shooters. They will get open looks but brick them since they suck at shooting. Not to mention DD can't guard a garbage can.

Bledsoe for starting SG would be preferable in any way to this. This trade is terrible. No way would I want to get screwed by the Craptors.

Clippersfan86
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It's not that serious bro. It's not me coming to a conclusion, it's a structuring mistake. I'll restart the poll.

Jerediscool
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Dude come on. you put me as the only one in the bargnani group? i specifically wrote earlier that i would do it for demarr and a pick but don't like bargnani... don't make me out to be the only retard here. thats f***ed up

ClippersSince97
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It's not serious but I have a problem with you. I've kept my mouth shut but not anymore. I don't mean to call you out but I'm going to. You're a very tyrannical mod and you're very hypocritical when it comes to thread creations. When C*J was mod, things were very smooth and easy going on this forum. When you became a mod, things started to change for the worse. In your words, it's not that serious bro. Loosen up.

uncool
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Only way this deal is good... If an alien has taken over DTS's body & he's acting like the Nets owner, willing to be a huge tax payer and will pay $21 mil per year for Derozen & Barg to come off our bench, & we're still gonna sign Matt Barnes & OJ Mayo to start. Otherwise this doesn't make us better.

But if we're doing this...

CP/Billups

OJ Mayo/ Derozen

Matt B/Bullock

Blake/LO

DJ/Bargnani

Maybe that works. That'd be a good 2nd unit... Overpaid, but it's not my money.

Clippersfan86
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I messaged Dave few minutes ago to fix it. Found out the hard way that I can create poll options and move them but cannot restart or delete them, only David can.

david
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Poll has been re-done- please re-vote if you haven't already- thanks guys!

Clippersfan86
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Tyrannical? Because I made a mistake on the poll option? Things started becoming less easy going around here when we got a flood of newer posters who started trolling and compromising the integrity of the board. Not to mention many of the polarizing topics like Vinny came up. Remember there are 7 mods here and I've banned 4 people the entire time I've been here.

You don't need to like me, just follow the board rules and keep your posting respectful. I need to loosen up when you're blowing up over nothing? Okay then.

CP3Heliflopter
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Imagine the spacing with DD, DJ, BG, CP3 and a shooter on the floor at the same time. It will be great to have 3 guys who can't shoot and 1 decent but not great 3 point shooter on the floor at the same time!

Like I said DD=mediocre, overpaid player who is a bad fit. We need 3&D players. He can do neither.

worm
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What do you think of Byron Mullens guys he can shoot 3 for a 7 ftr. Trade for DJ will be great.

Agent0
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He isn't that bad, sure, but I won't get excited about defensive potential, he played with Casey who's supposed to be a defensive coach and his defense is still not good. Some guys just can't do it, at least if he showed some flashes of good defense.

He was more efficient after Rudy Gay came and he became the second option, sure, he went up to an okay .535 TS% and 105 Ortg scoring 18.8 pts in 36.6 minutes. Jamal Crawford per 36 put up 20/3/2/.558/109 Ortg. DeRozan's last 3 years TS% average is .520 TS%. He's a 14.1 PER player. His best asset might be that he doesn't turn the ball over a lot.

We'll be stuck with him for another 4 years at almost $10M a year!

ClippersSince97
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It's not over the mistake on the poll. It's been things here and there over time. The fact that I didn't know there were seven mods means something right? You're the only one living on this board like an oppressive, big brother trying to control what goes on. I really do follow the rules.

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue. I know I don't need to like you, but I'd like to as I try to with all my fellow Clipper fans. But you're a very hypocritical, fickle person and that's hard to respect. You tell us not to flood the forum with new threads, but you create nonsensical ones. You tell us to be respectful, but you call out people all the time except for the people who you're scared to argue with and kiss up to. Yeah, I see your responses towards some people on the SAME topic and they always vary depending on the person.

Does that go against the rules because I'm calling you out? I guess I'll be expecting a ban soon.

Clippersfan86
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Agent I agree the contract is a tough pill to swallow. I just see the potential of Derozan and think right now we are romanticizing Bledsoe a bit much. Remember how poorly Bledsoe played the last 2 months of the season? We started doubting his value and after Vinny killed his confidence in the playoffs he went from first 2 games of dominating to last 4 games of doing pretty much NOTHING. Point is he's more inconsistent than we are remembering right now. I think Derozan's upside, work ethic and supposed coachability are worth taking a chance on. Think of it like Blake under Vinny. Works his ass off but never made a big leap due to the inadequate coaching. I think Derozan under Casey has struggled for the same reason. Even if Casey is a decent defensive coach he's nothing like Doc.

TheDude
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I love this rumor. A lot more than Orlando. If we could get Masai to go big and flip his roster over, this would be amazing for us. They have every piece we need and I think it's realistic. JV is their "prized" rook but it's a gamble, he may never turn into anything. We can take their bad contract/most hated man in Toronto and send them a young PG and C to build around.

Bled, Caron, DJ for DeRozan, Bargs, JV and Lowry. It's everything we need, the money seems to work. We still have the midlevel for a small forward. "So AK, how would you like to win a championship in L.A.???" Ridiculous roster.

CP3, Lowry, Billups

DeRozan, Jamal, Willie

AK47, Bullock

Blake, Lamar

Bargs, JV

Lowry can play the SG at times, DeRozan can play both wing positions, AK can guard every position. Bargs the stretch we need. JV for the future. It's everything we need.

Clippersfan86
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It's not my fault you don't read posts before quoting or commenting on them. I mentioned making DUPLICATE threads on coaches. Meaning if somebody makes a rumor thread about something and then two people go and make the same exact thread back to back. I've never raised an issue with excessive threads in general because as David said before, it's not a big issue.

Make all the threads you want, just don't make the same exact threads 5 times. If we already have a rumor thread for a next coach for example, no need to make 10 other ones. This Bledsoe trade doesn't fit into the Afflalo trade thread before it's irrelevant. David gave specific rules to mods about NOT merging all trade threads into one if they are separate deals.

So absolutely nothing hypocritical about that, just you failing to read what somebody posts or understand the context before calling people out. I don't consider anything any of you post "nonsensical" because this is a forum where people should be able to talk about anything. The only objection I've had is when people derail threads with an entirely new topic that already has a thread.

I don't get the claims of "oppressive" or "tyrannical" because all I did in this thread is mess up the poll and you got bent out of shape and went on a long rant about how I screwed the forum up roll. I didn't tell anybody what to do or warn anybody or anything. The only people I ever say anything to are people like yourself who hold grudges and consistently call me out, out of nowhere.

Not sure where the kissing up thing comes from because I've had disagreements with everybody here from Joe, Mays, CB24, Cleepers, David and everybody else. Maybe the reason you feel they are getting a different response is because despite the disagreement we have always had a mutual respect and care for each other. None of them have pulled the stunt you are which is to cry about my supposed "oppression" in every thread. Not to mention all of these guys have proven their salt on the forum for years and have earned the respect of everybody. I don't mean this to boast but you think I have the 3rd most reps on this forum by being a douchebag and picking fights with everybody? Or by being a tyrant? I have a lot of care for everybody here and am willing to make peace with ANYBODY including you if you will move on.

david
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ClippersSince97- please get on topic. If you have an issue with '86, please PM him to work things out. Otherwise please do not continue this sort of discussion here- thanks in advance!

http://clippers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-vi ... -1593.html

Clippersfan86
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I'll do the same David.

CP3Heliflopter
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Ok how about at least explaining how DD is an upgrade over Bledsoe? Bledsoe is 2x better defensively and is a better shooter. Derozan is an overpaid, athletic slasher who can't play defense. Explain to me how Derozan is going to suddenly become a good shooter when he can't even shoot 30% from 3....

Where the heck is Derozan's upside, work ethic? He has made marginal improvements at best since his first season. As far as I am concerned based on actual results he has DJ esque work ethic. Either that or he is wasting a lot of time doing all the wrong things when it comes to improvement.

Clippersfan86
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Look I love Bledsoe as much as anybody here if not more and have regularly been called a Bledsoe homer. I just don't like the thought of playing a generously listed 6'1 PG at SG for 10 million a year long term. I agree he's a better, more efficient player than Derozan but sometimes fit means more than who's better. Bledsoe can guard a lot of SG's but real big ones like Vince Carter, Paul George, Kobe, Joe Johnson eat him alive and if you look at the 2014 draft most of these star wings are big kids at 6'6-6'8. We need a more traditionally sized player.

Clippersfan86
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Ramona Shelburne ‏@ramonashelburne 2m

No need for Clippers to rush Bledsoe/DJ situations. Both have plenty of suitors now, and in future if Clippers eventually decide to move

evanhenrique
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The Raptors are not trading JV anytime soon =\ Your scenery is the only one which could make this trade work for me, though.

I strongly dislike this rumour. I just can't stand Derozan and his bad shot selection. He's not such a good defender as well. Bargnani works strategically speaking, but i think we can do better with the trade assets we have.

clipperstown
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what's the point of the traditionally sized wing player when the 6'1 guy does a better job on defense than the 6'6 guy does...

CP3Heliflopter
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Derozan can't guard a garbage can.... If you want to talk defense don't talk Derozan. Not to mention Bledsoe has a better wingspan and is a far more capable defender in general.

Might as well do the with Orlando its 5x better than this. You are talking about fit when Derozan can't shoot. How exactly is Derozan a better fit? He sucks in every way. Even Raptors fans who are beyond delusional thinks he is overpaid and not very good.

You haven't really addressed most of my points at all. He isn't a good fit, is overpaid, and simply isn't very good. I don't think he has much upside either and he hasn't improved much at all.

clipperboy24
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You are anything but tyrannical cf86. Just brush that off. Now you are sometimes over the top passionate but thats really what all us clipps fans are;)

I always appreciate how you don't use your mod power for personal battles but to actually keep the forum running smooth.

Clippersfan86
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Derozan put up 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg last year on average efficiency and you're making him sound like a scrub. He's got defensive ABILITY. He's not a good defender by any means but don't make him sound like James Harden who's an AWFUL defender. How many times have players on terrible teams, under terrible coaching moved to a better situation and thrived? It's happened too many times to count.

Hell even for us recently remember how awful Nick Young was in Washington? On our team he showed a lot of maturity and although inconsistent, ended up being huge for our team.

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