Clippers Interested in Tony Allen (P. 2)

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bullterrierclipsfan1349
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at this point, id prefer asik over dj. he is a better player. averaged a double double. solid player. i also agree with ekker

wtf_03
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i would deff rather have Asik than DJ right now! even though god knows what kind of player DJ can become with a good coach !!

wtf_03
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DJ has so much potential still! but we are in a win now situation!

wtf_03
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even though he plays great defense! I'm not a fan of TA! rather have afflalo who can shoot n play D!

Clippers_FTW
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Our problem isn't scoring... Its defense and rebounding.if you want someone who can score and defend pick up Mayo Smile

wtf_03
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youre right! mayo can be a better option he could also be a little cheaper than afflalo!

Grillinnap
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With our current starting lineup, Tony Allen wouldn't fit. Can you imagine if he was our starting SG, CP is our only reliable perimeter shooter?

ClipShow1
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Exactly, if Allen was the starting SG then we would need a sharp shooting SF or the starting unit will struggle to score with no outside shooting whatsoever. Teams will pack the paint and force the Clips to shoot jumpers.

pageC4
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mediocre? we don't need kobe, wade, or the top shooters just someone that can hit at least 3 three pointers a night , score about 12+ points to spread the floor with a bit ofoffense. Our top guys are signed, we only need good support that can allow our top two guys to operate, reddick fits that mold.

pageC4
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defense is an issue. But so is our lack of shooting. During the playoffs the game we won with the highest margin was game 1, which was also the game both caron and chauncey contributed with 12+ points each. They never did that ever again and i do believe if it wasn't for pauls amazing game 2 the grizzlies would have won in 5. Defense and shooting are key. We don't need to go to the other spectrum and think only defensive guys like tony allen are the answer.

seanrooks
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I'm a big Redick fan. He's really perfect for our team--plays off the ball, is really good at using screens and curling to get open(a la Ray Allen) and is an awesome catch and shoot guy who can catch fire. He'd easily become our best shooter, and while he's not a great defender, he would give us solid defense and has decent size to defend bigger guards. Not sure what I'd give up for him--maybe the Clippers should try to get more assets back if they trade Bledsoe. But Redick would be great for this team.

david
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Grizz beat us and the Thunder- Tayshaun Prince isn't exactly a lights-out shooter. If we get Afflalo, either he or Allen can play SF vs most teams.

Butler is a good shooter, and Billups is a good shooter, and look where that got us?

Our problems are primarily defense and rebounding. Our offense thrived on getting turnovers, and when we couldn't get enough TO's from the Grizz, we got beat.

It would be great to get a shooter who can defend, but a slasher with elite defense like Allen would be a good compromise, especially if we can get another wing player with good D and good 3 point shooting.

Grillinnap
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David, it wasn't just Tayshaun Prince. Allen was a good fit for Memphis because of their big men. The opponents had to respect Randolph and Gasol's outside shooting, that's why the defense didn't have to worry about Allen on the perimeter. Billups was way past it and Caron has always been aninconsistent shooter. He is more of a scorer. Or at least he was. The bottom line is Butler was never a deadly shooter.

Voyeur
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I remember Allen missing an awful lot of easy layups against OKC in the playoffs, like he was intimidated by their big men. And if he's not even making layups, what else can he do? Yes, defense was our problem, but offense WILL BE our problem if we have yet another player who can only score in the paint. And it will do NOTHING for Blake's growth or effectiveness if we continue to crowd the paint. Allen is a good player for other teams maybe...not for us.

jarca
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Agree. Asik proved that he can play big minutes and produce

pageC4
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Thunder win was an exception though David. No disrespect to the Grizz, but if the Thunder were at full strength no way they beat OKC. After news broke out that Westbrook was out the west was wide open. That playoff series saw a lot of teams get farther than they would have because of westbrook being out. I get that the grizz beat us, and no ecuse there but the OKC win was a fluke

pageC4
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Exactly, if we had a player that could consistently shoot a good 13 points each game in that series that may have been the difference. Both Butler and Billups were attrocious in that series.

david
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Er- Caron Butler 38.8% 3 point shooting last season- most of these other free agents have way lower %. Gasol can hit the J, but Randolph- no way, at least not consistently. And yeah Billups was a "shooter" wasn't he, supposedly the best we have (quote from Mike Smith). And look where that got us.

Again the main problems were not shooting, they were defense and rebounding. We can chose to ignore them, and just get sign bunch of shooters with mediocre defense, and I'm pretty sure that the Clippers won't make it past the second round. Doc Rivers will help, but he can't go out there and play defense for you.

Grillinnap
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Butler had a good year from the 3pt line last year but he's still a career 33% 3pt shooter (way below average). Billups just doesn't know how to play SG at this point of his career.

You are wrong. Shooting was ONE of the main problems. Of course, that's where it got us. When you have Chauncey shooting 30% from the field, it's not good. We need a shooter in the starting lineup, period...unless Blake can learn how to be a consistent threat from the perimeter. I'm only okay with Allen starting if we get a replacement for Butler who can shoot at SF. Otherwise, if we have Butler and Allen playing the wing positions, I'm sorry. The opposing defense can just park the bus in the paint and get ready for the rebound.

Oh, and Zbo still has the better jump shot than Blake.

david
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^^LOL- go back and look at how many points we gave up to the Grizz, and tell me that defense wasn't the MAIN problem. We put up plenty of points, but our defense and rebounding killed us. Signing a bunch of shooters who aren't good defenders is not a recipe for improving the Clippers.

CP3Heliflopter
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More like our defense was extremely bad.

david
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^^For sure- as I said, defense and rebounding were the two biggest factors that killed us.

Grillinnap
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Dude, you're singling out one problem. There wasn't just one main problem with this team. There were 3.

david
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Yeah because it was the biggest problem we had during the PO. Improving the shooting would be great- I'm not ignoring the fact that the shooting needs to be improved. But IMO the priority should be improving the defense. Tired of all those 3's killing the team throughout the season as well.

Markojaric
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if we get allen we need a sniper at SF. So Barnes shouldnt be a starter if we get Allen. And Blake should have a nice midrange jumper. Allen is a great player, but not sure if he fits here.

Grillinnap
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I'm not judging which problem is the biggest. That's you. You have to remember that Doc was successful in Boston because he had a very good shooting-big man in KG and a great shooter playing SG in Ray Allen. Blake is not as polished as KG is from the perimeter and we sure as heck don't have a shooter like Ray Allen. I'm just saying we would have trouble scoring if we end up with T. Allen at SG and Butler at SF. What's Doc gonna do on offense with a clogged paint with no one really to show threat from the perimeter on a consistent basis?

lobcityhawaii
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I agree that our rebounding and defense were the biggest problems against the griz. But we also did have not timely offensive droughts as well with really inconsistent outside shooting.

That being said I still want us to sign Tony Allen, but we also need to sign or trade for another consistent outside shooter. Mayo is a decent defender and shot over 40% from 3's last year. He should be able to shoot as well or better on a better team with the best pg in the league.

Clippers_FTW
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Yay.... David agree's with me... Sweet. Tony Allen is awesome for this team.... You say he can't score but in the Playoff's he averaged 10.3 points... 10 points aint bad.... I like Tony Allen... Tony Allen is awesome at defense... wait.. not awesome.. ELITE.... How can anyone want jj reddick (not even going to capitolize his name)... If you want someone who can defend and shoot how the heck do you not consider (OJ Mayo). And do you put jj reddick in the OJ Mayo in the same catigory??? no way....

CP3Heliflopter
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We need to improve both. Our poor defense was also a result of a poor defensive system that relied too much on forcing turnovers and not actually contesting shots. This kind of defense is hard to implement against good teams. It works occasionally especially against bad teams(which is why we had a lot of games where we blew out teams) but in the postseason you need a more consistent kind of defense.

AirGriffin
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This.

Get Afflalo and Mayo over Tony Allen. Defense can be improved with the right coach. I know Allen is a great defender, but his offense is so one dimensional and bad it's like having another Barnes on the team, except Barnes is a decent streaky spot up 3 point shooter. I hate players like that, the ones where no even wants them to take a WIDE open 3 or jumper cause they are that big of a liability with their joke of a ability to put the ball in the net.

Thanks but no thanks. Give me a pretty good defender in Mayo and a hell of a scorer. Can pretty much do it all, hit big shots, creae for himself, and help CP run plays. He will learn to play better off the ball better and be cheaper and younger than Afflalo as well. So either way Afflalo or Mayo and the Clips win.

Reddick or Allen not so much. Still a decent addition I guess.

Clippers_FTW
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We have 2 head coaches on our team.. best of both worlds.. this next season is gonna be beast mode.

david
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Yep- in fact, in the Memphis series, Allen scored more points than any other Clipper other than CP3 and Blake Griffin. Blake is going to improve his jumper, plus Allen is great at cutting and would get a assisted layups from Blake. But definitely hopeful for both Afflalo and Allen- we'll see what happens.

worm
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Allen will be a good addition to the team,the real problem at the last PO series against memphis is Griffin's rebound and boxing out and DJ's inability to defend the paint.

Voyeur
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You people who want Allen so badly apparently stopped watching the playoffs after Memphis beat our team.

clips4life32
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Ramona Shelburne: Clippers have not yet contacted Tony Allen

Let's see if Doc schedules a lunch date with him, lol.

Heediot
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Allen would be a good pick if we can acquire a guy like Granger who has decent range. Another thing I like about Granger is he'll give us that much needed reliable third option come playoff time. Outside of Cp3 and a few good games from Blake and Barnes, the team disappeared against Memphis.

Get a guy like Novak off the bench to stretch the floor, Bullock should also help with range off the bench.

Edit: As the third option, I think Granger's efficiency will get better as well.

If Granger doesn't work out we have a big @ss expiring contract.

Allen can be a good pickup, with the right supporting cast.

Agent0
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Butler I wouldn't call atrocious, he was just very plain. Bullups was atrocious.

Like mentioned though, if we focus so much on offense, we miss the bigger issues of the team, defense. The things to focus on should be:

1) Defense as a team and on the wings

2) Shooting / Spacing

3) Adding another scorer

Solving the defense needs to come first because if not this team will go into the playoffs and everyone will think it's all great until they can stop their opponent from scoring in the second round and even with adequate offense loose a series. Can't have that happen three years in a row (offense wasn't adequate enough vs SA in 11-12, but even if they had it, defense was too bad to win).

namzug
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I like tony allen his game is awesome and its somebody that I feel like I play like when I play pick up games because I can't shoot either. With that being said his defense is elite but he is such a non-factor shooting that I have to say no. We need spacing and already have limited shooters in that area, i'd rather start Bledsoe. If we are set in picking up a player that to start at the two, why not pick f. Garcia for less he shoots the three well and is a good defender. I'd rather have him at the two and then we could resign barnes at the 3, that is a solid defensive unit. We wouldn't have an elite defender, but a good one that you can't cheat off of and leave alone at the three.

Agent0
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I think you can make a trade-off with shooting and defense, you just have to compensate.

Allen needs to be paired with a Dorell Wright, Carlos Delfino, guy that takes 6+ three's per 36, not Barnes who is decent, but not a high level 3PT shooter. The spacing will be fine. On Memphis he was paired with Prince who also doesn't shoot three's. A stater playing about 28 MPG who can't shoot there's but is paired with another shooter should be fine.

The Jazz had Okur, and Boozer has a mid-range game we hope to see from Blake next season, but they had fairly workable spacing despite starting a non shooter in Brewer, and Kirilenko who didn't shoot many three's. Kirilenko hit 37.9% on 1.6 attempts, which is like a Bledsoe from the 3PT line.

It is workable, and you can certainly accommodate for the spacing. A Butler/Frye trade would help that for example.

Clippers_FTW
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I'm still partial to Mayo Smile

Agent0
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Mayo, I just don't get what people see in this guy, he's the most average guy to get love like he's some sort of All-Star or future All-Star, so weird.

CapsNClips
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Is there a certain reason why you don't like Mayo for us? I can't see a better fit for our team at the 2 for the price of Butler than him.

He would be our best spot up shooter and can play PG if Chris gets injured *knock on wood*

Agent0
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i wouldn't say I don't like Mayo for this team, it's actually probably more that I don't like a SG rotation of Mayo/Crawford, especially if you're spending $12M or so on them. If you have Crawford off the bench, you need some defense, and O.J. tries, but he's an okay / fairly decent man to man defender, probably better at PG but a very non noticeable team and help defender.

He's just not a specifically high impact player on either end of the floor, though I get that he can shoot. He's below average on offense and at best just average on defense. For example, Bledsoe has the same physical tools defensively and is a higher impact defender. Bledsoe is as good an all-round player in terms of pts/rebs/assists, though O.J. is a much better shooter.

Mayo is an overall average player. He doesn't impact a game more than some of the other free agent guys out there, but maybe because he scored 18.5 PPG (17.5 pts/36) as a rookie, maybe because he was projected to be a star, maybe because people just really like him, maybe there's a sort of aura that he's a higher impact player than he is, or maybe he's just a great guy. To me the only role being filled is a shooter, he's not a high level shot creator or a high level defender from what I've seen from him and in case I was watching with a bias, also from his production.

My main issues would be his collapse in the second half of the season and his inability to be effective in the playoffs on offense. If he was a high level creator or "that third option", I don't know if that would be the case. The year without Gay per 36 he put up 15/4/3/.501 TS% in the post season, that isn't going to take the Clippers a anywhere.

His per 36 numbers over his career are 16/4/3, last three seasons, 16/4/4. In 5 seasons, he's had one above average (actually good) offensive season in terms of Ortg, that was his second season. His second best was his 104 Ortg with Dallas. I know there's the fit and Hollins, etc, but Dallas was a great fit. If he was actually capable he would have averaged 20/4/4 for the season with Dallas. He did in the first month of the season, but he was shooting an unsustainable 50% 3PT, so you knew it was going down.

I think I'm just not sold. Now, if the Clippers sign him, I'll back him, and I'll hope he defies his track record and plays better, but I don't look at Mayo and think "here's a solution to the Clippers needs".

Look at other guys on the market:

Dorell Wright is a 15/6/3 guy per 36 over the last three seasons with a 111 Ortg and has had a 110+ Ortg in each of his last 4 seasons. He has more length on defense and is a willing and capable defender. He can also put the ball on the floor a bit and create for himself and others. Is O.J. impacting a game more than him, not from what you see on the court, and the numbers favour Wright.

Redick is challenged in some physical aspects, but over the last four seasons, he's put up 16/3/4 with a 116 Ortg. He makes up as much forme physical deficiency on defense with smart and fundamental defense. He's mediocre there, but great on offense. He's had a 111+ Ortg in each of his last 4 seasons. He can put the ball on the floor and create a little for himself and others, but he isn't a high level creator. Does O.J. impact a game more than him, nothing supports it, but maybe?

So if the idea is paying $7-8M for Mayo as opposed to $4-5M for guys who have a longer and better track record of offensive impact and who Mayo doesn't separate himself from defensively, it might not be the best move.

If Mayo is at the same price, it's okay. I would rather start Bledsoe/Wright as my 2/3 than Mayo and whomever else, but it also depends on what the market for Mayo is.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Doubt we get Allen now that we traded for Dudmeister McPhats and Redick. I'd still love to see a Tony Allen signing come out of nowhere though.

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