Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? (P. 8)

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Heediot
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I think Collison and Mullens are capable scorers, especially now that they are playing on the 2nd unit. We shouldn't be relying on his shot creation as much. Barnes is a decent scorer for a bench player as well. I think Bullock is a better fit, unless Jamal shows he can hit from range at a good percentage.

Heediot
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I never been a fan of Jamal prior to his arrival. Guys like him always over-rate themselves just because they have 1 on 1 skills and can create their own shots almost at will.

Agent0
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I think fans tend to overrate them too. Jamal has been useful and efficient in the bench scorer role though, but of course he's yet to have a truly productive post-season, hopefully this is the year.

fullcourt
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I think fans are taking him for granted simply for stating the truth. Most fans consider Jamal a starting caliber guard coming off our bench. The majority of coaches have said the same thing even our own superstars have said it but if Jamal says it he is a cancer who somehow is trying to start trouble.

Camp has started his coach has said

But we still have people upset that he thinks he is a starter when we know he is one of the top 20 SGs in the league right now .

DocHollywood
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JJ is a top 20 SG as well. Jamal is clearly a smart guy; smart enough to comprehend that Redick fits next to CP better than he does.

Clippersfan86
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Jamal back at it on twitter. Oh well with the new system he can likely be replaced easily by Willie Green and Bullock.

FreaKeyy
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I wonder what he was telling Lamarcus Aldridge. They were covering their mouth.

pageC4
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Green looked amazing last night, and we all saw what Bullock can do in Summer League. A month ago we all wanted to package DJ and Jamal for a top caliber center, but it looks like DJ may have finally become the big man we all hoped for.

Now the big question is if Jamal continues his negative twitter crusade what should we be looking for in return. I'm sure that after a few games we will have a clearer picture of who fits on this team and who doesn't.

In the case that all cylinders are firing and everyone is producing it might be a good idea to just simply trade Jamal for a draft pick and hopefully land another gem like Bullock.

ClippersDA
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Jamal is not professional and now he is just annoying. His tweets actually upset me, as he is making it about him and not the team. Talk about selfish! He was so bad in the playoffs, he has not earned the right to be upset. I'm telling everyone this will come back to haunt us thus year.

Clippersfan86
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Mullens and Hollins were awful. If it continues maybe Crawford for a backup center. Amundson can play some center but should be at PF mostly.

ClippersDA
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I wish someone Crawford respected would call him out on his attitude or at least tell him to stop tweeting about it.

Clippersfan86
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I'm almost HOPING Green or Bullock steal his job now. I feel like Green under Doc will thrive big time and he's paid his dues. Has it WAY worse than Crawford and NEVER complains. Bullock is a part of our future so I just want him to play in general. I just feel like we can't afford to have a SINGLE player like Crawford who's complaining. It kills the team first vibe.

Agent0
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Wait, what did Jamal say this time?

Battlegun
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I find it odd how you guys are putting so much stock into simple posts on a website. Twitter means nothing to me.

Clippersfan86
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Immediately after the game he tweeted

"I just don't know..."

I mean sure we are reading into it but constant tweets like that get annoying. I don't like passive aggressive. Man up and claim it or STFU and play basketball.

Heediot
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Never found him likable at all. Others had reasons to like him saying he`s intelligent or savvy or whatever. These tweets just add to my instinctive impression of him from the past.

MartyKahn
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Trade him. Team needs spot up shooters anyways

Clippersfan86
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"@claanyane00: @JCrossover u good #11? Didn't look like yourself tonight in ripcity"--trying a different style..I'm good tho. #thanx

I guess he's not happy with you know.. ball movement and playing off the ball like most SG's.

Clippersfan86
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Jamal Crawford ‏@JCrossover 8h

You are who you are..

Maybe he thinks the team is trying to change him but too fu**ing bad it's for the better.

Silasie
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If he is unhappy he really needs to tell his wife or his friends or have a meeting with Doc. Moaning about it on twitter is really bad, and if he continues like that we should trade him.

CP3Heliflopter
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Like I said I would gladly trade him for a nice backup big. He is expendable and not a great fit now that we actually have a motion offense with ball movement. We don't need his iso ball anymore and his poor attitude is becoming annoying. Not that I want to get rid of him per se but he is one of the few valuable assets that we can part with.

I am not very confident in our backup bigs at all. Mullens and Jamison are iffy at best. We need a 15ish-20ish mpg backup big that can play D and preferably shoot Fts.

DocHollywood
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I think Jamal and all of us are putting too much stock in one game. If his shots had been falling, we'd all be tweeting a different tune. Not saying he's presently as needed as an MLE equivalent big, but still...

Agent0
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The pattern of tweets and timing definitely do point in a certain direction. I think it is always best to cut ties early in these situations and before anyone knows there is an issue. Protects trade value. On the other hand, sometimes you try to ride it out, but this might not be that kind of situation.

If it isn't a ride it out situation, what teams would want him / would he fit on though?

Utah: for Brandon Rush?

Philly: for Kwame Brown or Spencer Hawes (would need to shed additional salary)

Atlanta: Deshawn Stevenson + Gustavo Ayon?

Don't want to trade him to a Western playoff opponent, so the options aren't plentiful. A guy like Brand would be nice, but Atlanta didn't just sign him to trade him right away.

Not sure what backup bigs teams are in the position / wiling to give up for him.

Clippersfan86
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I'd happily do Crawford for Hawes because I wanted Hawes the last two years.

tense2
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If Jamal doesn't work out, I think there will be more trade opportunities come trade dead line time. No reason to panic (not that I'm suggesting you are).

Agent0
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That is true as other teams will also see who isn't working out, what rookies aren't so good, etc, but teams that have made "stealth" trades for players have gotten some good returns. It's hard though and will be based more on if there was a previous deal a team wanted and you re-visit it.

Just don't want to have his trade value plummet where it just becomes a dump him by any means. I think he should be able to adjust though, but who knows.

CP3Heliflopter
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I also don't want his value to go down which will happen if he becomes a cancer. I have seen Crawford complain like this before and it doesn't lead to anything good believe me. It has nothing to do with his preseason game. Preseason games are almost completely meaningless to me. I have felt this way before he even started tweeting all of these negative comments.

We don't have VDN anymore so we don't need to rely on his iso ball as much especially if it comes with that attitude and lack of defense.

CapsNClips
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Brandon Rush would be a great trade for both teams. Rush is a good defender and an even better shooter, and Jamal would be good for Utah to bail out the rookie Trey Burke when nothing's going offensively.

Andrew818
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Really like the trade with the Jazz.If Rush is injured,we got Willie and Bullock.But a healthy Rush fits Doc's system perfectly.Would be great to see Rush and Barnes playing together.

And the Jazz can either keep Crawford or use him as a trading piece along with one of their big expiring contracts at the trade deadline.Still very early but doesn't seem we need Crawford like we did last year.

toohipcliptoslip
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There was a professional dinner for the city's psychiatrists. They were all in animated conversations except for Dr. Jones who was silently chowing down with wolfish ferocity. He looked over at Dr. Smith who was next to him and interrupted Smith's passionate discussion with the group. Dr. Jones asked Dr. Smith for the salt. Dr. Smith replied

"I know you're asking for the salt but what you really mean is that because of a bad relationship with your mother you have feelings of inadequacy. You want to join in the conversation but lack the self esteem to do so"

"No Dr. Smith" said Jones "I just want the fu*king salt"

He says he's dissatisfied because he is. Again please don't obfuscate the obvious.

Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard

toohipcliptoslip
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post script

We need a real center/PF who can start if BG/DJ get hurt. Who do we have? Nobody. We're guard heavy. All of our bigs are third stringers.

Silasie
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Too true. We have a very nice team this season, very exciting, but this is a glaring issue.

Obfuscate................now that's a fancy word.

Battlegun
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So you all are willing to trade Crawford over a few meaningless quotes and one bad pre-season game?

Dunkathon
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This is probably the trade with the best chance of succeeding actually. Philly is in full tank mode, so they'll gladly trade down to get worse. Although they'll be worse, Crawford will provide enough excitement for the fans that they'll still be selling tickets.

Clippers will get a decent big in return with only one year left on his contract.

Agent0
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Hawes makes a bit more. I do believe it would be a great trade for LAC. I don't know if I can say it would be great for Philly. A team like that probably wants some young player or a pick, but that isn't an option. (Maybe some sort of 3 way with Utah getting Crawford and sending someone to Philly)

I feel bad, but I guess you could send Jamal, Mullens and a 1st or 2nd round pick since Mully would be redundant with Hawes, but he just got here and he's happy and trying to improve and fit. Hawes is 25 years old or so himself and a career 14/9/1.6 blks guy who struggles with consistency and offensive efficiency.

We'll see how it goes.

Actually, I think the willingness to trade Crawford is based on a few things:

1) He's probably the best value the Clippers have

2) His natural game isn't the best fit for how the team wants to play, and people are skeptical about him wanting to play a new way

3) There is still a hole at backup big man that a lot of us are looking at and still not yet convinced by the backups

I don't believe in knee jerk reactions like I said in the other thread, but I also think being proactive is good. If you see that the fit might not work, nothing wrong with making a move early.

Let's be honest, Jamal is 33 and has been in the NBA for 13 seasons. Asking him to adjust is a whole different thing than asking 4th year 24 year old Blake Griffin to start facing up. Jamal can say "I've carved a good career and been wanted by teams playing the way I play, why should I change". Blake is still at a stage where he's more like "I want to get to the next level, maybe this will get me there".

So I actually get it from Jamal's POV. I wouldn't be mad at him if it doesn't work. He was brought in under a different regime for a different purpose, so if the fit isn't right, it isn't right. Doesn't mean Jamal is bad or wrong, or Doc is bad or wrong, just means you need to go your separate ways.

There are teams that want and need his isolation skill-set. That might not be the Clippers anymore, and that's fine, no need for there to be animosity.

tense2
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^Well said A0. Getting Hawes would be like getting an all-star back up compared to Mullins, lol. Hawes makes 6.6 mil so packaging Jamal and Mullins would do just fine.

We can wish I guess.

Voyeur
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I think we're seeing one of the reasons Crawford moves from team to team?

toohipcliptoslip
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How many messages have you sent that you may no longer be Clipper nation unless you get what you want? None I bet. Send us one that say it and mean it. You don't go to all that trouble over something that's unimportant. Willie fits a lot better than JC. His only strength is iso's. He will get in the way.

People say things like that because they have an agenda. I don't care what his is. He wasn't kidding

pageC4
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And this hasn't been first time JC has done this. We witnessed him tweet stuff like this all summer. At

this point we should be making plans on what defensive big men we can get in exchange for Crawford in the event that his Kanye West tantrums continue

Heediot
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Let's hope Atlanta struggles by the time Brand is available for trade and ship Crawford for Brand. Throw in a 2nd round pick to sweeten the pot because they are taking on more salary.

cleepers
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From Eric Patten's report on yesterday's practice... Jamal Crawford went scoreless in a reserve role against Portland, but Rivers said it was likely a product of playing with four players who had spent little time on the court together. Matt Barnes (calf) missed the game and Crawford came off the bench alongside newcomers Darren Collison, Byron Mullens and Antawn Jamison and starter Willie Green. "In real games he'll be on the floor a lot with Chris," Rivers said. "So, I don't think it will be that big of an adjustment at all." There were times, though, in which Crawford appeared tentative. In Associate....

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Heediot
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Let's say Crawford was disgruntled, or that he is not fitting into the new system, why would Doc say anything negative to lower his trade value?

fullcourt
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If he tweets anything positive its completely ignored but anything that can be twisted into something negative is passed around and over analyzed.

Its amazing how people will say he should be traded because I know what he feels and what he means from his tweets ?

Jamal fits just fine anyone who thinks he won't fit just doesn't understand how nba basketball works. They think we are gonna come out and run 48 minutes of offensive sets like its 3rd grade basketball. It just ain't gonna happen.

Its amazing how people are so thrilled that Doc runs a lot of great plays that they forget that the Celtics had had a player than ran a ton of isolation for in Paul Pierce.

I thought Jamal in the first preseason game did exactly what he should've done with the second unit which is run the basic sets and see what each guy is capable of in LIVE GAMES.

Jamal has trade value but lets be realistic here there is no one on this team that can replace what he brings and contrary to the popular claim that all he brings iso's he brings much more than that.

He is the only person outside of Blake and CP that draws a double team. Outside of Blake and CP he is the only proven nba scoring threat. JJ and Dudley are great shooters who are consistent but if we trade Jamal then 2 of JJ,Dudley,Barnes,and Willie will get you double figures consistently but that means that Blake and CP have to get nearly 25-30 ppg for us to have a chance in most games.

I think I read that somewhere that Blake scored 20 pts or more 35 times well Jamal did it like 29 times which was 4th amongst ALL shooting guards in the nba and he did it in 29 minutes. No wing outside of Jamal brings that type of explosiveness... Jared and JJ did it 21 times combined .

This doesn't make Jamal untradeable it just means this theory of we just trade him for a big and roll with the wings we have and not lose anything a pipe dream.

Jamal is more important to this team than people are willing to give him credit for and no one should be reading the twitter tea leaves looking for a reason to dump him just because. Its preseason with a new coach and a ton of new players and as far as I know there are basically 4 players I'm certain of and that is CP,Blake,Jamal,and Barnes. Everything else has to be proven when the ball goes up live against the lakers .

Clippersfan86
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Jamal's value to our team specifically is severely diminished right now. Defense first, motion offense system.... is pretty much the bane to his game. I don't know if anybody in the league had a higher percentage of their scoring/plays come from isolation and Doc has made it clear isolation plays are pretty much dead for this team. Then you factor in that he's among THE worst rebounding guard in the NBA pretty much, or at least bottom 10.. and the fact that he's an incredibly bad defender? Just by adding the coaching staff and system we did his value is significantly worse, while guys like Green/Bullock will likely thrive big time, easily replacing Crawford.

So the best course of action, assuming Bullock comes in playing well right away is to start shopping him when his value is still high.

Voyeur
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Yeah, the tweets are only part of it. Who knows? Maybe those type of thoughts are what keep him going. Kind of a chip on his shoulder thing. It's more of a practical thing for me. Under Del Negro's system, we needed Jamal's iso plays (ironic that Del Negro ended up not playing Jamal in the 4th quarter of Game 6 in favor of Billups to our detriment). But under Doc's system, Willie Green and Reggie Bullock may be more ideal off the bench right now.

Jamal Crawford is one of the best one on one players in the league. Yet we didn't really need his skills 2 years ago to get past the Grizzlies in the first round. What we did have 2 years ago was toughness. So I kinda agree when folks say it might be beneficial to get a tough minded big man for Jamal. Much as it's tough for me to write that statement.

Clippersfan86
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Exactly Voyeur. Even more importantly than the tweets... he's just not a good fit for what the team is trying to do right now. I mean the guy gets absolutely obliterated on screens, usually leading to easy, wide open buckets for the man he's guarding.

fullcourt
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Green Bullock at this time are marginal role players once the lights go on.

Doc did not say there would be no more isolation he is just trying to reduce the offenses reliance on it for the majority of its points.

What do you think Doc did in Boston with Paul Pierce? Every nba team runs isolation's and pick and roll its just a matter of how much you rely on the two for your core points

Docs watched the film he knows we can get a good to great shot anytime he wants with an iso for CP,Blake, or Jamal. The key against the good teams is that because its an iso there was little movement from the other players when they are isolated with the ball. The key will be putting in sets so that when they have the ball isolated there are other options available.

If you watch the Celtics they would be able to run all sorts of sets to get Pierce the ball isolated ft line extended.

Defensively its about team defense not individual defense which is what made the Celtics a great team. Loading up on the strong side forcing teams to swing the ball and being able to make multiple efforts when they do its basically what the Bulls are doing right now no matter who plays for them.

This is similar the lob city is dead claims everyone was making. Why would a coach be against a point blank shot ?

Clippersfan86
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Marginal role players? Green was the starting SG most of last year and although not starting caliber on a contender, he's above average in more facets than Crawford. I'd rather have a guy score 11 or 12 ppg but also play solid D, rebound and pass than a guy who scores 16 ppg. Last year I was all for Crawford but this type of offense is MADE for Green. So given the changes Green very well may be much more valuable than Crawford. Bullock also is a dream fit most likely, although he needs to prove himself obviously. These two guys are catch and shoot guys who come off screens fantastically and play hard on D.

Voyeur
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Right Clippersfan86. We were a much better team with Green than Chauncey. If only for his ability (at least) to play some defense and more consistent shooting. However he really picked up his game down the stretch of last season. Then, of course, Chauncey started again. And observing the first preseason game, it sure looks like Willie picked up where he left off last season. I think JJ is quite possibly a better version of Willie so it would be a perfect compliment. Plus, Willie's kind of earned our trust and maybe deserves the playing time.

And seriously, isn't it possible Jamal would be happier playing for a team willing to start him and let him do his thing?

Clippersfan86
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Good post, I agree with everything you said. Willie definitely has earned a shot.

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