Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? (P. 9)

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CP3Heliflopter
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Ultimately its not Willie Green vs Crawford. Its Willie Green + a nice asset we get from Crawford vs Crawford. Willie does certain things better than Crawford. He cannot iso like Crawford but he is better off the ball, a better defender and he has a great attitude. If we can get a nice backup big for Crawford I would do it with zero hesitation.

Clippersfan86
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Also don't forget how good and NBA ready Bullock has looked since we drafted him. Developing him would be a big help.

ClippersDA
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Crawford just tweeted health is wealth, hopefully he is not talking about blake! Haha but like the positivity

Heediot
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Guys like Nick Young who have similar games (less efficient in total shooting) can be had for the vet min. Worse case is we can find a cheaper version of him next off-season if we trade him and miss his isolations

DocHollywood
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Seems most here have no real idea what JJ Redick brings to the table. As impressive as Willie was the other night, JJ is indeed much better. After we traded for JJ, I started watching some Orlando games from last season. My expectations of the guy were exceeded by a wide margin. He is far and away the best acquisition of this off-season, and Jamal will no longer be necessary once JJ joins the lineup. He's always running his a*s off to get an opportunity at an open shot. Watch him and tell me a player who hustles more in this league. He is always making the smart play too, so much so that it really stood out to me after a couple of games. Great passer and playmaker. His IQ combined with his tenacity are going to be amazing additions to our starting five.

CP3Heliflopter
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I think everyone here knows Redick is better than Willie Green. Willie Green is like a slightly poor man's version of Redick. More than good enough to be our backup SG. We even did well with him as our starter last season.

toohipcliptoslip
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Cliff notes version since I screwed up and put this in another thread.

JC has to go. We have two bigs and if either gets hurt we have scrubs not even second stringers. Memphis, maybe Indiana and Houston will kill us. We have nobody else to trade.

If somebody could arrange a trade Brand for JC I'd lend them my dog for five days.

(I of course get him back at night and am not responsible for humped legs)

Clipperfn4lf
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Wonder how he feels that JR Smith is fighting for starting spot now.

DocHollywood
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I was trying (poorly) to make the broader points that JJ is going to exceed expectations, Willie is solid, and therefore Jamal is expendable.

FreaKeyy
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Here's his latest tweet

"@JCrossover: Things change so fast.."

He retweeted this one too

"@JCrossover: "@swaggtoothpaste: Give me a ball and a court, and i'm good. i'll play anywhere. @JCrossover."--#true"

toohipcliptoslip
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You misread the article. It said J.R. Smith is starting a fight.

pageC4
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Don't forget Bullock too. Bullock has been such a surprise in summer league, so trading Jamal will not hurt. Plus without his iso ball he is not productive at all.

pageC4
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I concur

pageC4
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I have no doubt in JJ Redicks abilities. However, I still am a little nervous because sometimes players don't always fit in other systems or play well with other players. I know its only two games so far of evaluation, but at least one guy has kind of had me scratching my head a bit, Dudley. He seemed like a much better player, but thus far has not really done much. I hope this is not the case with JJ.

Clippersfan86
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Page Redick is a slightly better player than Dudley and he's in much better shape. I don't think we have to worry as much about Redick. Dudley has been off but in his defense it's only one game.

tense2
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Actually as most data shows, it's the other way around. Love that we have both.

Clippersfan86
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They are absolutely equals for the most part in terms of metrics, but I have Redick as ever so slightly better because his best games are untouchable by Dudley. When he's on he looks like a full blown star. Dudley seems more consistent where he's never too high or too low. Either way point stands that Redick fills a bigger need and is in better shape.

tense2
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Think they both fill the "bigger" need from what we had last year from our starters and if you think Redick is slightly better that's cool 86, but the data shows otherwise. We're talking slightly here, so to each his own I guess...not meant for an argument.

Just curious, not sure how you can justify Redick being in better shape since he hasn't played yet.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/246-j-j-redick

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/264-jared-dudley

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... cjj01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

Agent0
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Off ball playing, unselfish shooters are one of the easiest players to transition to different teams and different styles, so I'm not worried about either guy. Pre-season is what it is, they've shown years of excellent regular season play in similar systems (remember Dudley went to WCF with Gentry I believe), so don't worry page.

CP3Heliflopter
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What a diva.

CapsNClips
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So if you guys were right about him complaining the entire off season, then wouldn't that 1st tweet mean he's happy now with the Clippers?

Maybe he's realizing our teams potential and he's excited now. Who cares if he's unhappy here? If Doc wants him here he's gonna stay here. We should only trade him if he isn't a good fit for this team, which I'm starting to agree with.

CapsNClips
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I'm going to post his positive tweets from now on. Only posting his "negative" ones seems so unfair to his image.

DocHollywood
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I'm going off of the eye test when stating that Redick is the most valuable acquisition. I watched about six Phoenix games and six Orlando games from last season in July. Maybe it's too small of a sample size, but regardless, I'm 100% confident in labeling JJ a better player. Redick's average games are similar to Dudley's good ones, and his foot speed is exponentially better. I like Dudley a lot, but he is slow. Redick is constantly moving whereas Dudley is usually just standing out on the perimeter like last years Clippers. I'm really curious what swapping Barnes into the starting five would look like. That lineup would outrun the league in Doc/Gentry's quicker paced offense. Barnes said he put a lot of work into his three point shooting this off-season too, so hopefully he can hit around 38%.

Clipperfn4lf
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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_ ... guard-spot

perhaps, but this seems like its an open battle for 2 guard position.

Clippersfan86
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Tense do you not think Barnes was significantly better than Green/Billups last year? Or that THIS year we need Redick more than Dudley given that the backup 3 (Barnes) is better? It's definitely the truth.

tense2
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86, both the SG and SF were the weakest spots in our starting line up last year. Both have been hugely upgraded this year and NEEDED. We were fortunate to have good backs ups (Barnes/Crawford/Green) to lessen the blow.

With that said, I think that Dudley is slightly the better overall player then JJ. And when you factor in the contracts, the better value. This is in no way disrespecting Redicks talents who I like a lot.

tense2
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If you believe that your eyes tell you that, fine. You want to THINK he's better that's your privilege, but the data suggest something else (no matter how small or slight it maybe). wink

Regarding Barnes starting, I think he's in the perfect spot for his remaining years with the Clippers...a great backup who CAN start if the starter goes down. Hoping Matt shoots 38% from the 3pt area when he's just shot the league average (36.1%) for a SF just once in 11 years with a LT% of 33.1 isn't very good odds.

Leave him right where he is, especially when you have a starter that averages 40.1% shooting 3's.

DocHollywood
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I saw with my own eyes Redick score 17 in a quarter. I saw him score 8 in an OT. I saw him run the Magic offense both on and off the ball. If you actually watched multiple games of both of these guys, you would not be throwing stats at me trying to prove a point. Are you looking at Dudley's PER of 14.89 versus JJ's 14.74 last year? Before he was traded to Milwaukee in February, JJ's was over 16. Have you even watched multiple Magic and Suns games from last year like I have, or are you just into stats? Regarding Barnes, his PER was greater than Dudley's, so obviously he's the better player right? Or is it three point shooting percentages you've chosen to utilize?

tense2
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More to it then just PER and catching a few games on TV my friend:

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/246-j-j-redick

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/264-jared-dudley

Voyeur
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How did we start comparing JJ to Jared? Hopefully, they'll both be great compliments to our starters. Something tells me JJ's a little harder to guard, however.

DocHollywood
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I prefer basketball-reference myself. So, again, which stats in particular are you partial to? Per 48 totals are terrible for extrapolating anything from, especially for a guy like Dudley who looks tired of running from tipoff. Once more, have you watched ANY Orlando or Phoenix games from last season? I watch a lot of basketball. I also know stats. Based on BOTH, you are not going to convince me, or the majority of people here that Jared Dudley is a better player than JJ Redick. Just stop. Please.

tense2
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That's fine and personally I don't really care whether I can convince you or not. Believe what you want and use whatever stats or your "eyes" suits your mind set. But remember to look at ALL the data.

Oh and I've been watching BB longer then you've been alive most likely...before all this kind of data was available, lol.

And yes I have caught some of the PHX and Magic games on the box and know the players well. But watching some games and not all 82+ doesn't paint the whole picture for each player.

Anyway, no harm no foul your free to believe what makes you feel comfortable. Smile

DocHollywood
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I was close friends with Red Auerbach in the fifties bud. I ate dinner with Bill Russell every Tuesday for years.

I enjoy a lively debate with anyone else who loves basketball like I do. You and I both are convinced we've been overly diligent and thorough in forming our respective opinions. Hopefully both players shoot 50/40/90 this year lol.

I'm 33 years old.

CP3Heliflopter
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Both players are pretty much a wash but I give Dudley the slight nod. Really the gap between them is so minuscule that its pretty much a coin toss.

Voyeur
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We'll see who makes the bigger impact very soon I guess. They probably won't quite understand why this conversation has taken place.

tense2
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LOL...I was right. 33 years ago that's about the time I backed into becoming a Clipper fan...ah, the good old days. What a long strange trip it's been. Here's to a great Clipper year for both players and the team.

P.S.

Still have Dudley as the slightly better overall player. Razz

tense2
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They'll both make a significant impact over the starters we had last year...and they would both enjoy the conversation I think...even though team mates, their still competitors and it's fun. Smile

DocHollywood
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The only thing better than watching a good game of basketball is talking a good game of basketball lol.

I just found this quote from Doc earlier today at practice: "At the end of the day, Jared Dudley s*cks at basketball compared to JJ Redick and his otherworldly supreme skills." I thought he was maybe a little harsh with his choice of words. /THREAD Very Happy

(In no way does this post merit any sort of coherent response from other less facetious members of this forum).

tense2
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Your wit almost trumps your BB knowledge. lol

(all in good fun).

toohipcliptoslip
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Tense

You haven't offered to bet him. You're slipping.

Oscar and the Van Arsdale twins in High School (Them not me). Havlicheck stole the ball!

tense2
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I'm waiting for the right time Toohip. wink

CapsNClips
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Clippersfan86
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Tense why do you always start shifting these disagreements into a personal thing? Doc actually seems like a very knowledgeable guy if I may say.

CapsNClips
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CapsNClips
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CapsNClips
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K, now can this thread finally die already?

tense2
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Huh? What personal thing are you taking about. We're fun'n each other. No harm no foul.

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ohMEohMy!
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He's buying in.

Silasie
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ohMEohMy! wrote:

He's buying in.

Lets hope so, cos if he is not in he should be out.

clipperboy24
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I love stats but they never give the whole picture especially when talking humans which are inconsistent and emotional. So the stats may say this should happen but players throughout history have proven its not just about the numbers.

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