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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 407148by CP3Heliflopter » Oct 10, 2013 - 12:17 PM PST
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Ultimately its not Willie Green vs Crawford. Its Willie Green + a nice asset we get from Crawford vs Crawford. Willie does certain things better than Crawford. He cannot iso like Crawford but he is better off the ball, a better defender and he has a great attitude. If we can get a nice backup big for Crawford I would do it with zero hesitation.



                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407149by Clippersfan86 » Oct 10, 2013 - 12:20 PM PST
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Also don't forget how good and NBA ready Bullock has looked since we drafted him. Developing him would be a big help.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407161by ClippersDA » Oct 10, 2013 - 01:38 PM PST
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Crawford just tweeted health is wealth, hopefully he is not talking about blake! Haha but like the positivity

                
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Heediot
Post ID: 407162by Heediot » Oct 10, 2013 - 01:49 PM PST
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Guys like Nick Young who have similar games (less efficient in total shooting) can be had for the vet min. Worse case is we can find a cheaper version of him next off-season if we trade him and miss his isolations

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407168by DocHollywood » Oct 10, 2013 - 02:26 PM PST
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Seems most here have no real idea what JJ Redick brings to the table. As impressive as Willie was the other night, JJ is indeed much better. After we traded for JJ, I started watching some Orlando games from last season. My expectations of the guy were exceeded by a wide margin. He is far and away the best acquisition of this off-season, and Jamal will no longer be necessary once JJ joins the lineup. He's always running his a*s off to get an opportunity at an open shot. Watch him and tell me a player who hustles more in this league. He is always making the smart play too, so much so that it really stood out to me after a couple of games. Great passer and playmaker. His IQ combined with his tenacity are going to be amazing additions to our starting five.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 407194by CP3Heliflopter » Oct 10, 2013 - 09:12 PM PST
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I think everyone here knows Redick is better than Willie Green. Willie Green is like a slightly poor man's version of Redick. More than good enough to be our backup SG. We even did well with him as our starter last season.

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 407200by toohipcliptoslip » Oct 10, 2013 - 11:06 PM PST
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Cliff notes version since I screwed up and put this in another thread.

JC has to go. We have two bigs and if either gets hurt we have scrubs not even second stringers. Memphis, maybe Indiana and Houston will kill us. We have nobody else to trade.

If somebody could arrange a trade Brand for JC I'd lend them my dog for five days.

(I of course get him back at night and am not responsible for humped legs)

                
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Clipperfn4lf
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407201by Clipperfn4lf » Oct 10, 2013 - 11:08 PM PST
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Wonder how he feels that JR Smith is fighting for starting spot now.

                
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DocHollywood
Post ID: 407209by DocHollywood » Oct 11, 2013 - 01:02 AM PST
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I was trying (poorly) to make the broader points that JJ is going to exceed expectations, Willie is solid, and therefore Jamal is expendable.

                
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FreaKeyy
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407211by FreaKeyy » Oct 11, 2013 - 01:58 AM PST
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Here's his latest tweet "@JCrossover: Things change so fast.."

He retweeted this one too "@JCrossover: "@swaggtoothpaste: Give me a ball and a court, and i'm good. i'll play anywhere. @JCrossover."--#true"

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 407215by toohipcliptoslip » Oct 11, 2013 - 06:39 AM PST
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You misread the article. It said J.R. Smith is starting a fight.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 407218by pageC4 » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:04 AM PST
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Don't forget Bullock too. Bullock has been such a surprise in summer league, so trading Jamal will not hurt. Plus without his iso ball he is not productive at all.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 407219by pageC4 » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:05 AM PST
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I concur

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 407220by pageC4 » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:08 AM PST
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I have no doubt in JJ Redicks abilities. However, I still am a little nervous because sometimes players don't always fit in other systems or play well with other players. I know its only two games so far of evaluation, but at least one guy has kind of had me scratching my head a bit, Dudley. He seemed like a much better player, but thus far has not really done much. I hope this is not the case with JJ.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407224by Clippersfan86 » Oct 11, 2013 - 10:43 AM PST
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Page Redick is a slightly better player than Dudley and he's in much better shape. I don't think we have to worry as much about Redick. Dudley has been off but in his defense it's only one game.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407226by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:03 AM PST
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Actually as most data shows, it's the other way around. Love that we have both.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407227by Clippersfan86 » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:10 AM PST
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They are absolutely equals for the most part in terms of metrics, but I have Redick as ever so slightly better because his best games are untouchable by Dudley. When he's on he looks like a full blown star. Dudley seems more consistent where he's never too high or too low. Either way point stands that Redick fills a bigger need and is in better shape.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407231by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:53 AM PST
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Think they both fill the "bigger" need from what we had last year from our starters and if you think Redick is slightly better that's cool 86, but the data shows otherwise. We're talking slightly here, so to each his own I guess...not meant for an argument.

Just curious, not sure how you can justify Redick being in better shape since he hasn't played yet.

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/246-j-j-redick http://www.thenbageek.com/players/264-jared-dudley http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/redicjj01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dudleja01.html

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407232by Agent0 » Oct 11, 2013 - 12:14 PM PST
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Off ball playing, unselfish shooters are one of the easiest players to transition to different teams and different styles, so I'm not worried about either guy. Pre-season is what it is, they've shown years of excellent regular season play in similar systems (remember Dudley went to WCF with Gentry I believe), so don't worry page.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407236by CP3Heliflopter » Oct 11, 2013 - 02:19 PM PST
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What a diva.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 407237by CapsNClips » Oct 11, 2013 - 02:34 PM PST
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So if you guys were right about him complaining the entire off season, then wouldn't that 1st tweet mean he's happy now with the Clippers?

Maybe he's realizing our teams potential and he's excited now. Who cares if he's unhappy here? If Doc wants him here he's gonna stay here. We should only trade him if he isn't a good fit for this team, which I'm starting to agree with.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407238by CapsNClips » Oct 11, 2013 - 02:49 PM PST
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I'm going to post his positive tweets from now on. Only posting his "negative" ones seems so unfair to his image.

                
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DocHollywood
Post ID: 407239by DocHollywood » Oct 11, 2013 - 03:33 PM PST
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I'm going off of the eye test when stating that Redick is the most valuable acquisition. I watched about six Phoenix games and six Orlando games from last season in July. Maybe it's too small of a sample size, but regardless, I'm 100% confident in labeling JJ a better player. Redick's average games are similar to Dudley's good ones, and his foot speed is exponentially better. I like Dudley a lot, but he is slow. Redick is constantly moving whereas Dudley is usually just standing out on the perimeter like last years Clippers. I'm really curious what swapping Barnes into the starting five would look like. That lineup would outrun the league in Doc/Gentry's quicker paced offense. Barnes said he put a lot of work into his three point shooting this off-season too, so hopefully he can hit around 38%.

                
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Clipperfn4lf
Post ID: 407242by Clipperfn4lf » Oct 11, 2013 - 04:06 PM PST
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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_ ... guard-spot

perhaps, but this seems like its an open battle for 2 guard position.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407243by Clippersfan86 » Oct 11, 2013 - 04:13 PM PST
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Tense do you not think Barnes was significantly better than Green/Billups last year? Or that THIS year we need Redick more than Dudley given that the backup 3 (Barnes) is better? It's definitely the truth.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407251by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 05:57 PM PST
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86, both the SG and SF were the weakest spots in our starting line up last year. Both have been hugely upgraded this year and NEEDED. We were fortunate to have good backs ups (Barnes/Crawford/Green) to lessen the blow.

With that said, I think that Dudley is slightly the better overall player then JJ. And when you factor in the contracts, the better value. This is in no way disrespecting Redicks talents who I like a lot.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407253by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 06:06 PM PST
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If you believe that your eyes tell you that, fine. You want to THINK he's better that's your privilege, but the data suggest something else (no matter how small or slight it maybe). wink

Regarding Barnes starting, I think he's in the perfect spot for his remaining years with the Clippers...a great backup who CAN start if the starter goes down. Hoping Matt shoots 38% from the 3pt area when he's just shot the league average (36.1%) for a SF just once in 11 years with a LT% of 33.1 isn't very good odds.

Leave him right where he is, especially when you have a starter that averages 40.1% shooting 3's.

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407255by DocHollywood » Oct 11, 2013 - 08:30 PM PST
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I saw with my own eyes Redick score 17 in a quarter. I saw him score 8 in an OT. I saw him run the Magic offense both on and off the ball. If you actually watched multiple games of both of these guys, you would not be throwing stats at me trying to prove a point. Are you looking at Dudley's PER of 14.89 versus JJ's 14.74 last year? Before he was traded to Milwaukee in February, JJ's was over 16. Have you even watched multiple Magic and Suns games from last year like I have, or are you just into stats? Regarding Barnes, his PER was greater than Dudley's, so obviously he's the better player right? Or is it three point shooting percentages you've chosen to utilize?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407257by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 08:45 PM PST
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More to it then just PER and catching a few games on TV my friend: http://www.thenbageek.com/players/246-j-j-redick http://www.thenbageek.com/players/264-jared-dudley

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407258by Voyeur » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:00 PM PST
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How did we start comparing JJ to Jared? Hopefully, they'll both be great compliments to our starters. Something tells me JJ's a little harder to guard, however.

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407259by DocHollywood » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:27 PM PST
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I prefer basketball-reference myself. So, again, which stats in particular are you partial to? Per 48 totals are terrible for extrapolating anything from, especially for a guy like Dudley who looks tired of running from tipoff. Once more, have you watched ANY Orlando or Phoenix games from last season? I watch a lot of basketball. I also know stats. Based on BOTH, you are not going to convince me, or the majority of people here that Jared Dudley is a better player than JJ Redick. Just stop. Please.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407260by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 09:47 PM PST
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That's fine and personally I don't really care whether I can convince you or not. Believe what you want and use whatever stats or your "eyes" suits your mind set. But remember to look at ALL the data.

Oh and I've been watching BB longer then you've been alive most likely...before all this kind of data was available, lol.

And yes I have caught some of the PHX and Magic games on the box and know the players well. But watching some games and not all 82+ doesn't paint the whole picture for each player.

Anyway, no harm no foul your free to believe what makes you feel comfortable. Smile

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407261by DocHollywood » Oct 11, 2013 - 10:13 PM PST
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I was close friends with Red Auerbach in the fifties bud. I ate dinner with Bill Russell every Tuesday for years.

I enjoy a lively debate with anyone else who loves basketball like I do. You and I both are convinced we've been overly diligent and thorough in forming our respective opinions. Hopefully both players shoot 50/40/90 this year lol.

I'm 33 years old.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407262by CP3Heliflopter » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:27 PM PST
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Both players are pretty much a wash but I give Dudley the slight nod. Really the gap between them is so minuscule that its pretty much a coin toss.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407263by Voyeur » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:32 PM PST
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We'll see who makes the bigger impact very soon I guess. They probably won't quite understand why this conversation has taken place.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407264by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:37 PM PST
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LOL...I was right. 33 years ago that's about the time I backed into becoming a Clipper fan...ah, the good old days. What a long strange trip it's been. Here's to a great Clipper year for both players and the team.

P.S. Still have Dudley as the slightly better overall player. Razz

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407265by tense2 » Oct 11, 2013 - 11:49 PM PST
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They'll both make a significant impact over the starters we had last year...and they would both enjoy the conversation I think...even though team mates, their still competitors and it's fun. Smile

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407266by DocHollywood » Oct 12, 2013 - 03:22 AM PST
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The only thing better than watching a good game of basketball is talking a good game of basketball lol.

I just found this quote from Doc earlier today at practice: "At the end of the day, Jared Dudley s*cks at basketball compared to JJ Redick and his otherworldly supreme skills." I thought he was maybe a little harsh with his choice of words. /THREAD Very Happy

(In no way does this post merit any sort of coherent response from other less facetious members of this forum).

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407274by tense2 » Oct 12, 2013 - 10:51 AM PST
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Your wit almost trumps your BB knowledge. lol

(all in good fun).

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 407298by toohipcliptoslip » Oct 12, 2013 - 03:27 PM PST
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Tense

You haven't offered to bet him. You're slipping.

Oscar and the Van Arsdale twins in High School (Them not me). Havlicheck stole the ball!

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407306by tense2 » Oct 12, 2013 - 05:38 PM PST
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I'm waiting for the right time Toohip. wink

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407403by CapsNClips » Oct 12, 2013 - 11:16 PM PST
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407410by Clippersfan86 » Oct 12, 2013 - 11:45 PM PST
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Tense why do you always start shifting these disagreements into a personal thing? Doc actually seems like a very knowledgeable guy if I may say.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407413by CapsNClips » Oct 13, 2013 - 12:13 AM PST
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407414by CapsNClips » Oct 13, 2013 - 12:14 AM PST
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407416by CapsNClips » Oct 13, 2013 - 12:23 AM PST
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K, now can this thread finally die already?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 407417by tense2 » Oct 13, 2013 - 12:27 AM PST
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Huh? What personal thing are you taking about. We're fun'n each other. No harm no foul.

[/addressmap]

                
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ohMEohMy!
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford Would Like to Start, Also Unhappy? Post ID: 407418by ohMEohMy! » Oct 13, 2013 - 12:41 AM PST
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He's buying in.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 407420by Silasie » Oct 13, 2013 - 09:41 AM PST
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ohMEohMy! wrote:
He's buying in.

Lets hope so, cos if he is not in he should be out.

                
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clipperboy24
Post ID: 407438by clipperboy24 » Oct 13, 2013 - 06:05 PM PST
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I love stats but they never give the whole picture especially when talking humans which are inconsistent and emotional. So the stats may say this should happen but players throughout history have proven its not just about the numbers.

                
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