Antawn Jamison to the Clippers (New Interview Inside) (P. 7)

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Clippersfan86
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I hope that's our next step. Waive Wayns who was ATROCIOUS in summer league and sign a banger like Amundson.

mj_shoefanatic
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Not liking this signing at all. No defense and probably can't stay healthy.

Perfect backup for BG.

AirGriffin
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Jamison is better than Odom in a lot of ways. Turns the ball over less and can space the floor better, gets to the rim

Better, better 3 point shooter, better free throw shooter, etc.

His defense can improve with Doc. So I wouldn't be worried with that, it's just offense that you need to generally and naturally be good at this stage of your career and Jamison is an all around better offensive player than Odom and looks like he can play with the same intensity Odom did or even more.

And come playoffs time, Jamison is better suited for the half court slow pace game than Odom and has better basketball IQ. And plus, Jamison JUST turned 37. Grant Hill was 40. And Kobe just turned 35... So it's not that bad at all, if he can stay healthy until the playoffs he will shine much more than Odom did.

itsLuigi
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yeah i was not impressed at all with waynes thought he would have done a lot better. i saw Samuels play and he was alright looked like more of a defensive man than davies from the couple games i saw. i didnt really get to see davies play this summer. they should waive davies and waynes and look for someone with more experience.

Akclipps
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Doc didn't want another player who has no Shooting that's why i think he didn't get Ivan, Shavlik or Amundson. Doc is very confident that he can change Dj and Blake to be more defensive that's why he's not worried of getting a finesse player like Jamison. In Doc we trust

Clippersfan86
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Davies didn't impress. Nice play here and there but not consistent in the least. Ak I agree with you. Doc is a basketball genius, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't want no damn crack addict on our team, sorry.

ClipperKyle32
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Davies was never signed! So we have an open roster spot for one more Matt Barnes Type Signing

tense2
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There are no "Matt Barnes types" left to sign out there.

itsLuigi
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i know he wasn't signed, but still kind of nervous he'll get the final spot

ClipShow1
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I'm sure Doc is counting a lot on Blake and DJ stepping up and becoming better all around players but if one or both of them gets in foul trouble or injured say during the playoffs, your choices of back up bigs to play extended minutes is pretty bleak. Mullens, Hollins, Jamison, and undrafted rookies doesn't look to good especially if you're playing a team with legit post threat like Memphis. I'm sure a trade for a big man can happen by the deadline but on paper right now, front court depth is pretty weak.

I trust in Doc and I'm sure he has some plans up his sleeve so I guess I'll just sit back and watch how things play out.

clippersfan85
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Welcome to the Clippers Antwan. I think this will be a good signing if Doc uses Jamison's game right. That is something D'Antoni didn't do last season. Still having a roster spot open is smart incase another big becomes available.

Musy101
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Camp at UCSD?! Nice! Usually the suns have there camp there, but I'm definitely go check it out! I was a student at UCSD when the suns were there and I got to meet some suns guys. Talked to Gentry for like 20 minutes. Great guy.

lobcityhawaii
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Welcome to the Clippers Antwan! Hope you fit in well, nail outside 3's, score in the post, rebound, and play good team defense! He scored 33 points just last season! I'm not expecting that but hopefully some efficiency!

ClipperKyle32
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Doubt It after his and Maalik's terrible Summer League! I would waive Maalik and sign Randal! He IMPRESSED me a lot!!

hoopfanjd31
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Eff it. Wasn't my first choice, but I suppose we could have done worse. Welcome aboard Antawan "Awkward Shots" Jamison.

itsLuigi
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randel did pretty good but he's a little on the small side.

i don't think we need a third string pg we need another big

tense2
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"The Piece", LOL.

Let's hope it works out for him and the team.

Markojaric
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I remember the clips nation article that stated that "Jamison = Death of Basketball". I didnt like the signing a time ago, but now I think he is a decent starter in case that blake (knocking on wood) misses a game. If we are gonna get a banger or enforcer player ,is gonna be with the season started.

Clippersfan86
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Clippernation/Blog was also collectively against Jamal in a big way. Everybody deserves a chance before we bash them. Last 3 years generally all of our signings have exceeded expectations.

Clippers_FTW
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Didn't like it at first but liking it more and more.... when that 1st 3 dropps everyone will shut up

MartyKahn
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Jamison is a curse and a jinx. He's a jinxed curse.

ClipperKyle32
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^^^^^^ the Jinx may reverse and this may be a CHAMPIONSHIP YEAR!!! You never know

Greenmonk94
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It takes a team to win it takes a team to loose.. curses are like Santa or elves.. I don't like this sugning but hey doc won't play him if he sucks

Voyeur
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I'm fine with this. Let's face it, Blake will play a lot of minutes but we need a guy who can come in and spell him a few minutes. And a vet like Jamison will fill in nicely, I think. As far as having a banger. If we need a banger, it's as a starter. It appears Blake will be doing the banging against the likes of the Zbo's of the league. He'll be okay. The key is if DJ can be the rim protector we need.

catalyst
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that way we can hide Jamison on defense, literally lol

Hooligans
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You're right. After 16 years in the league, Jamison is just now gonna start playing defense.

Thank god our coach is a wizard.

Clippersfan86
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Odom didn't even play consistent defense after the first two months of the season. Vs Memphis he was more helpless than any other big defensively, including injured Blake. So the idea that Jamison over Odom is a huge blow to the team is so false. I challenge anybody making a big deal about this to tell me the last time a BACKUP big was vital to a championship run. I'm sorry but unless Blake and DJ keep improving and step up.. we are 2nd round fodder and a backup big WILL NOT change that. Next we are going to cry about who's our 3rd string PG...

Jamison had the 3rd best year of his career efficiency wise last year. He can score decently in the post, rebound okay and stretch the floor. Odom was a better passer and rebounder. It's been proven time and time again that bench players that can perform offensively are significantly more important than those who can defend. The best teams have their best defense in the starting 5, with nice firepower off the bench (see Miami and San Antonio).

No teams employ multiple defensive stoppers off the bench. Would I like a physical backup big like Reggie Evans or Kmart again? Of course. That being said guys like that are a liability at the line, offensively and in other ways as well. Jamison had a better season than Odom last year by all accounts and that was as a guy who was forced into a very bad role. With us he will be the 9th or 10th guy at most.. and will have an easy job.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Finally we got someone. Looks like Clippers still have interest in Odom, or they at least held out until the last possible minute to give him a shot. Regardless, Jamison is a better option than most out there, he brings depth to the front court which was highly needed and he's a former All Star. Jamison has playoff experience and he knows what it's like to be "The guy" and to be in a role he's in now.

While he isn't going to be a marquee player here, he's better than Ryan Hollins getting 10-25MPG on most nights, so people need to stop b!tching. I still say we sign 1 more big man.

Hooligans
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I'd venture to say that it is more important to have defensive enforcers off the bench when looking at the defensive track record of most championship winners with at least ONE good backup big. Every championship team has had big contributors off the bench, though it obviously varies by position.

Ray Allen/Chris Andersen - Heat

Manu Ginobli/Boris Diaw - Spurs

James Harden/Nick Collison - OKC

Lamar Odom/Andrew Bynum (kind of....I think LO started during their championship run) - Lakers

Tony Allen/Glen Davis - Celtics

etc...

I know you know that the bench is important but there's a lot of hopes and dreams riding on Blake/DJ's backs right now with no one behind them (we're also just assuming that they'll improve from last year and there's no guarantee they will).

Jamison should have been in the perfect position last year in Dantoni's offense but couldn't get off the bench because he was such a liability on defense, which is surprising considering the fact that Pringles normally doesn't care about that. He got hot a couple times but the only time he really got in the game for the lakers was when the injury bug hit their frontcourt.

I'm certainly being pessimistic right now but we weren't a couple games away from the chip last year, we got kicked in the teeth by the Grizzlies. I would have liked to see a little more grit in that series and I don't feel like we added enough of that this offseason (specifically towards the frontcourt, I loved the addition of Redick/Dudley to the wings).

Edit: I don't frequent those advanced stats websites but I'm pretty confident that Odom's "ratings" are a lot higher than Jamison's.

CLIPSET
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Welcome aboard Antawn Jamison!

I definitely think he's an upgrade offensively over Odom. Can't wait til the season starts!

Clippersfan86
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Chris Anderson was the Heat's starter most of the playoffs, until the finals and even then he made his big impact which turned the series when they put him into the starting 5. Diaw and Ginobili are subpar defenders but fantastic scorers/passers. Harden is the worst defender in the NBA, Collison is one good example. Odom was defensively good for the first part of the season but rapidly deteriorated and Bynum has never come off the bench. Tony Allen is a starter and Glen Davis is an awful defender. On other words out of your list of 10 players you gave 1 valid example. Nick Collison is the only good bench big who's defensive minded. The rest of your list is filled with starters and poor defenders.

Hooligans
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Andersen started zero games.

Did you watch Diaw's defense against Lebron during the finals? Yeah the fat jokes are funny but fundamentally he's a sound defender. I mentioned guys like Harden and Ginobli since you said that "when was the last time a BACKUP was vital to a championship run?".

Tony Allen didn't start when he was with the Celtics.

Davis was a contributor too, definitely wasn't an elite defender but he played with KG who is light years better defensively than Blake and DJ.

The list goes on and on for championship teams, but I wasn't about to list off every single team.

Clippersfan86
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Read again. I said a backup big and also said multiple stoppers. Backup guards carry the scoring load, not the defensive one which is why scoring guards win 6th man award almost every time. Diaw played good D for short spurts on Lebron that doesn't make him a good defender. Don't get me wrong Diaw isn't bad defensively but he's average.

You're acting like a casual NBA fan in the way that you're labeling players based on small samples. Backup big isn't a backbreaker, never has been. Defensive bench players as a general rule are never more valuable than offensive ones. The starters need to improve defensively, the bench needs to score. Ideally Blake and DJ get huge minute increases I highly doubt we will be sabotaged by 15 minutes of a backup big.

You're right Anderson didn't start, I forgot Bosh started at center and they ran small ball. Although again if your two examples of valuable backup bigs are Collison and Birdman that's a small sample.

You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like "Glen Davis is light years better defensively than Griffin and Jordan". When in fact he's clearly WORSE defensively than both of those guys.

Hooligans
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I suck at debating on online forums because I always end up arguing a completely different point by the end of it.

I think having a good backup forward is important, especially if the team doesn't have the best front-ourt to begin with.

That is all.

Clippersfan86
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Yet this is a huge misnomer. We were a top 5 frontcourt by all accounts offensive and defensively last year. Go through the categories and you'll see this very quickly. If Blake and DJ even take a "decent" step forward on both ends we could easily be the most productive frontcourt in the NBA.

Offensive interior stats:

  • 5th ranked team at points in the paint.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/po ... t-per-game

  • 8th in offensive rebounding percentage.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/of ... unding-pct

  • 1st ranked in preventing defensive rebounds.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... s-per-game

Defensive interior stats:

  • 7th in blocks per game.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team-st ... s-category

  • 2nd ranked in opponents points from inside the 3 point line per game.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... 2-pointers

  • 2nd ranked in opponents points in the paint.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... t-per-game

  • 2nd in opponent turnover percentage (much of this inside).

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... rnover-pct

Go through the rankings and you'll quickly discover most of our weakness actually was based on perimeter defense and offense. Unreliable shooters who didn't spread the floor well and poor perimeter defense. Don't get me wrong stats can be deceiving and our bigs WERE beaten bad in the playoffs but unfortunately this leads to people like you exaggerating... and painting the wrong picture.

We happened to face the best frontcourt in the NBA two years in a row in the playoffs so it's no surprise our frontcourt got outplayed. People need to look at context and try to understand it more. If we played OKC for example Blake if healthy would have been going for 30 every night probably and DJ would be killing Perkins and we wouldn't even be talking about this. Memphis is just a tough matchup for us in the paint (for everybody).

That said.. Vinny's coaching grenaded any chance we had. Blake+DJ under Doc should be a much different animal.

23efren23
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Don't forget Randolph has to on the 3pt line guard jamison and it will open up rebounds for others and keep Randolph off the paint

LobAngelesBlakers
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I don't understand why this thread has so many dislikes. I see this as a good signing all things considered. Who else could we have gotten that was better for the same price? nobody really

Hooligans
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ughhhhhhhhh..........

I didn't say we had the bad starting froncourt, but they need players behind them. Which is why we could use some DEPTH in that area. But go ahead and keep twisting everything to prove your point you psycho.

namzug
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I was against this signing prior to it happening, now that it has happened I will be optimistic unless given a reason to do otherwise.

Welcom Antawn Jamison, let's hope you can help get the CLips a Championship. Most of the burden will rely on the starters and their progression, which should be allowed to be worked on during the season (one of my issues with Vinny- reward offseason work).

86 and Hooligans- I think you guys both have valid points. I would have liked a banger, I think everyone in this forum knows I was hoping we got Ivan. I really think match ups are key in the playoffs, and you want to have some one that brings something different to the table on the roster. We know have a 5 man line up that can all shoot from 3 which is the first I've seen; but I would of liked someone who could bring energy and physicality when that is what we need. I still don't see that in that in our front court rotation, unless Hollins can do it.

Agent0
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he can definitely do a lot of offensive things better. His defense won't improve, he's in his late 30's and has been a poor defender over multiple coaches and even when he was more athletic. I doubt Doc got him with that expectation.

You just have to figure out how best to hide him on defense. Of course the problem win the front-court right now is that off the be ch you're trying to hide all of those guys on defense, lol, so you can't hide someone next to another player you are trying to hide.

Like I said, Celtics defense was night and day with KG vs no KG because even with a good system and coaching, below average defenders don't combine to make a good defense, you can coach them up to average, but you need a backbone, some defensive foundational player/players to have a good defense.


Clippersfan86, the majority of turnovers were from pressure by CP and Bledsoe and from turnovers forced by trapping ball handlers on pick and rolls. The defense had a drop off later in the year, after starting off hot.

Jamison does not have higher basketball IQ than Odom, but he's low mistake player and last season was efficient. Most years he's been inefficient and not so positive of an offensive player. Hopefully the change to more of a role player continues that efficiency increase.

A good backup big man is important because of things like foul trouble, matchup issues, and just having someone reliable with the bench. Of course if all the other backups sucked, then it's okay, but here are the major Western opponents backups:

SA: Diaw / Bonner OKC: Collison MEM: Koufus / Davis GSW: O'neal / Speights HOU: Asik + a lot of decently solid young PF's

Now we can give all the excuses and reasoning as to why one of those guys are bad to make ourselves feel better, but the reality is that those teams are getting better solid two way production from their bench bigs. If we switched our bench bigs with any of those, the collective outlook from Clippers fans and everyone else becomes more hopeful for the team. They all have at least one reliable / solid big off the bench. It isn't about having massive big man talent depth, it is really about one good one.

If not, it's better to have versatility of skills, but this group missed out on the strong rebounding and good defense off the bench, not enough of a mix.

SA is the exception because Duncan is a PF/C, so while it looks like they have no good backup C, Duncan actually slides to C and plays alongside one of those guys, and Pop staggers the lineups to have Duncan or Splitter on most of the time so there's always a good C on.

Still, like I've said, I'll go with it, we'll see how it works, it isn't the end of the world, and trades / future signings are still possible.

Clippersfan86
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Asik is starting according to Daryl Morey and if he doesn't get traded. The rest of those guys aren't much better than Jamison/Mullens outside of Memphis maybe who again has the best frontcourt in the NBA, so why are we to be compared to them? Diaw at this point is solid, nothing special. Bonner would be a scrub on any team but the Spurs great system and is nothing but a 3 point specialist. O'neal and Speights are OKAY at best and that's if they can stay healthy and get playing time behind Lee and Bogut.

Jamison was a 10/5 player last year, Mullens an 11/6 player or so. With CP3 I expect their efficiency to get a nice bump and Mullens is just 24. People need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill. I already said I would have loved a banger off the bench but it's not going to be what gets us out of the 2nd round. What does that... will be Blake+DJ stepping up and the team buying into Doc.

Clippersfan86
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Based on your recent posting you're clearly implying that our frontcourt is mediocre. In fact 3 posts ago you said

"especially if the team doesn't have the best frontcourt to begin with."

Now I'm not going to take the wording literally because in this context it's clear you don't think very highly of our frontcourt, at least not that it's top 5 as it is. Sounds like you're severely underrating it TBH.

No need to call anybody a psycho I wasn't twisting anything. I was directly addressing the things you said.

Clippersfan86
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BTW Hooligans I like you and you've been a good, level headed poster. Me disagreeing is nothing personal. I think I'm just burned out on people overstating the issues of our frontcourt. When you play Memphis and their insane frontcourt, it's no surprise we would be pointing the fingers. As I said earlier had we played OKC or Houston instead for example, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's just the luck of the draw. I doubt we face Memphis a 3rd year in a row.

jarca
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Wh cares really? The season depends largely on Bg and Dj development. Odom, Johnson, or Jamison isn't the difference between a winning and losing season

namzug
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When I speak about all of this, I am talking about Playoff basketball. All the teams mentioned above are playoff teams in my mind, and chances are we will see at least one and more likely two of those teams in the playoffs (hoping we get past any we do meet).

I would think Koufus and Davis are pretty good as well, depending on how they fit together. Asik can be considered a starting quality center, but I don't see Howard playing PF with his skill set, so I think Asik will be rotating in and only moving Howard to PF for short stints. O'neal and Speights is more or less what I was hoping for our team at the beginning of the offseason, so I am not going to turn around and say that I am not impressed with that frontcourt.

I think Mullens is the wildcard for us on how good our bench is. He has sucked as far defensive ratings go (as well as offensive ratings), and I find it difficult to believe that he will improve drastically. I am hoping he does, as well as hoping as all of our players have career years. The other thing that might be a factor is Brandon Davies, I know most of us were disappointed in his play during the summer league games (I was expecting a standout, similar to Reggie). With that said he has to have something since he did get a partially guaranteed contract, even if his partially guaranteed portion has already played out. I have read past articles on the guy and he was mentioned a few times as a possible sleeper who could surprise a roster.

As far as our starters, I really like our front court. I think Blake concentrating more on his jump shot and playing from the elbow will benefit the team greatly. If DJ improves on where he was at the beginning of last season, he will start to show us why we gave him the money. On top of that if they figure out Doc's defensive system they will hopefully have rotations set so nobody looks lost during the season.

BringMcadooBackado
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Repped High Quality Post

This is the problem, not Jamison. We're paying our starting front court a combined ~$27 million this coming year. If we NEED a vet to come off the bench and cover up their deficiencies, we lose.

The reason why many people on this board are saying that DJ and Blake will be good enough to play consistent, high level minutes this year is because they have to. We've put all our eggs in one basket when it comes to our bigs and after the Matt Barnes/Darren Collison signing, there wasn't anyway we were going to sign anyone who could help out in any significant way.

In other words, it doesn't matter who we sign when it comes to Lamar Odom or Antawn Jamison or Drew Gooden. We're still going to win or lose purely based on how well or poorly Blake and DJ play.

d20
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I think with the cards we were delt, this is a good move.

hoopfanjd31
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Agree 100%. That's why I'm pretty indifferent about this signing. Sure, I would have liked someone more defensive minded, but whatever. If we're in a position to be relying heavily on our back-up PF, we're in trouble anyway.

Repped.

Clippersfan86
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Repped. You get it! Very Happy. Like you said... if at ANY point it comes down to a backup big saving us... we are 1st or 2nd round fodder again anyways. Bottom line is Blake and DJ need to take another step for us to reach the WCF or better. CP3 is as good as he's going to get pretty much as are guys like Crawford, Barnes, Reddick, Dudley. The players that can really push us over the top are Griffin, DJ and even Bullock if he's a super effective, surprising rookie.

Agent0
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Morey said they want to play them together, as in feature lineups with both of them, but I don't believe there was anything concrete that they would start together. McHale determine that anyways.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on them barely being better.

Koufus produced the same (8/7/1.3, 13/11/2 per 36), as a starting C as DJ last season, that's A LOT better then the current bench bigs unless DJ isn't better than them.

Bonner is a great shooter, he has a career per 36 of 13/7, 41.7% 3PT, .588 TS% and averaged 20 MPG his first two seasons before SA. SA didn't keep him for 7 seasons because he doesn't have value to a team. He's far more efficient than both Jamison and Mullens, and his defense is more adequate because one thing he does is always put effort. In the role of stretch big, he just comes our far on top because he makes his shots, a lot, whether he's playing next to Chris Paul or on a scrub team (42% 3PT / .589 TS% his fist two seasons as a Raptor). Diaw is basically what Odom could have given if he didn't suck on offense last season, but switch rebounding with Diaw being a better shooter.

Collison is one of the better two way role playing bigs, he's like the Shane Battier of PF's. He's been a very high impact player and is a very good defender.

Like Namzug said, something similar to Speights and O'neal is what a lot of people wanted, so there's no need for me to pretend that isn't reliable depth (when healthy). Of course O'neal's health is an issue, but health prognosis is always better when a player is on our team than on another Wink

@Namzug, I agree, Mullens is a wildcard, and if he surprises, I will be super happy. I'm not a glass half empty kind of person, actually the opposite, but I like to be realistic. I try to not think every underperforming player just needs to be on my favourite team with the players on that team and that coach and it will all work out. If Mullens was a high IQ guy or a great shooter, it would be different, but part of his issue has been that he's considered a low IQ player. I hope he surprises and is great, I want him to, but I'm not going to pen that in as something to expect.

@jarca depth is always a but underatted and a bit of a fallacy. What is important isn't having 5 extra guys off the bench, but what is important is having 1 solid guy in each role, guard, wing, bigs. So while the bulk of the success is on Blake and DJ, when you meet a fairly even team, the production you get for the 1-1.5 quarters a game where DJ and Blake are on the bench can be the determinant of winning or losing a series.

My ideal depth wise is:

PG / SG / backup Combo PG/SG

SF / backup SG/SF

PF / C / backup PF/C

Extra: backup SF/PF to use as a stretch if the backup PF/C doesn't have 3PT range. There can be a bit of a mix, this isn't set in stone. It could be a SF/PF that plays more minutes, more of a pure C backup, a playmaking SG/SF, then I just have a bring the ball up, set up the offense and be a spot up shooter backup PG if money is tight, and the bench wing creates on offense.

Essentially an 9 man rotation where one capable guy backs up mainly PG and half SG, another guy mainly SF and half SG, another guy backs up both your bigs, mainly C, and half PF, and the last guy is more situational and is used as a stretch 4 or backup 3. 12 deep isn't really useful except for bragging about depth because you just aren't playing that many guys. It's all about 2-3 solid bench guys in all areas.

You can't always get ideals though, and like I said, I think the team will survive. Really it's about if the starters can play well enough and long enough so that they are a positive in comparison to their counterparts as a unit. The bench only needs to be barely positive or even go neutral for 10-13 MPG when we start talking about playoffs.

@McAdoo, you are also right, but I think the fear and worry is that what if DJ doesn't do all the necessary things to get him more than 28 MPG? That's 20 minutes a game at C that someone else will have to play. You want to have a contingency so that if this happens, there isn't a collective sigh of disappointment every time DJ goes off and we know his backup will be on for 10 minutes a half.

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