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dukenilnil
Post Subject: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405414by dukenilnil » Sep 11, 2013 - 08:50 PM PST
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Interesting to see some advanced stats on the comparison. Definitely see some potential for similar use and know that Rivers liked Redick a lot when he coached against him. Seems like screening by the big men will be key.

Can Redick be the Clippers' Ray Allen? espn. go. com/blog /los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/4888/can-redick-be-the-clippers-ray- allen

Need to eliminate spaces in link



                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405418by jarca » Sep 11, 2013 - 09:35 PM PST
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No just no! For most of Allen's career he wasn't just a decoy on offense he was actually the focal point.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405420by CP3Heliflopter » Sep 11, 2013 - 09:53 PM PST
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^The writer is comparing an old Ray Allen with Redick not a prime Ray Allen. Current Ray Allen is comparable.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405422by Agent0 » Sep 11, 2013 - 10:03 PM PST
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Redick can be comparable to old Ray Allen, of course young Ray Allen wouldn't make sense. Redick also did a really nice job as a passer with the Magic last season.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405423by Voyeur » Sep 11, 2013 - 10:28 PM PST
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Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying Redick will be as good as Allen was in his prime. Just that he'll fulfill a similar role in Doc's offense. Maybe not as many points, but in terms of running off screens and just being overall deadly from the outside.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405428by jarca » Sep 11, 2013 - 11:45 PM PST
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So we paid 6.5 mil for an old Allen

                
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A7XDreamTheaterClipps
Post ID: 405431by A7XDreamTheaterClipps » Sep 12, 2013 - 04:09 AM PST
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At least we paid for somebody. I remember when Rasual Butler was our best shooter. Do you remember that guy; Philly native who was a huge fan of boxing?

                
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dukenilnil
Post ID: 405434by dukenilnil » Sep 12, 2013 - 09:24 AM PST
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I'd point out that 2007-2008 Ray Allen (the year used in the article for statistical comparison), was only 32 years old. Merely 3 years older than Redick now. His total points numbers went down when he went to Boston not because of age (yet) but because of the way he was used as not being option 1,2, and 3. When your third best player is Chris Wilcox, you are going to score a lot. When your top 3 players are KG, Pierce, and Allen, scoring will be more evenly distributed. On the Clippers, with Paul and Blake clearly ahead of him, I think a 2007-2008 Ray Allen type year for JJ is completely reasonable (especially on a per 36 minute basis).

Pretty much every team in the league would pay $6.5 million for an "old Ray Allen" in 2007-2008. Dude was an all-star his first 2 years in Boston. If JJ Redick is an all-star (I don't think he has any shot, even if he equals Allens numbers those years), then the Clippers will walk into the Finals. So don't lament paying all that money for an "old Ray Allen"

                
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Voyeur
Post ID: 405435by Voyeur » Sep 12, 2013 - 09:24 AM PST
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No. We paid for a guy Doc think's is perfect for his style. How come this is so hard for some people to understand?

                
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david
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405439by david » Sep 12, 2013 - 12:10 PM PST
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The numbers look pretty similar there- that would be huge if JJ can become the Clipper Ray Allen. The potential is there offensively. I'm hoping he will hit 40% 3's and set a new Clipper franchise record for 3's (currently held by Caron Butler I believe).

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 405440by Agent0 » Sep 12, 2013 - 01:12 PM PST
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I thought Jamal had the season record for 3PTM?

You're thinking old as in last season. 33-35 year old Ray Allen is more accurate. That guy was worth at the least $6.5M

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 405442by Clippersfan86 » Sep 12, 2013 - 01:23 PM PST
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Old? Guy just turned 29. Lights out shooters like this don't start declining until their mid 30's really. For the 3 or 4 years we signed him for he will be very productive.

                
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david
Post ID: 405443by david » Sep 12, 2013 - 01:55 PM PST
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Yep you're right- Jamal made 149 and Caron 128, with % of 37.6% & 38.8%, respectively. Very good %'s there, and Willie Green made 42.8% (71/166) which is even more impressive.

BTW welcome to Clippers Topbuzz, dukenilnil!

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 405445by clipper*joe » Sep 12, 2013 - 02:31 PM PST
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Not too long ago you were complaining about Sterling being too cheap. Now he's overpaying? Can't make everyone happy, I guess.

                
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Clipperman#5
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405446by Clipperman#5 » Sep 12, 2013 - 03:07 PM PST
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ahhhhh ^^^^welcome back @ClipperJoe, dam homie can I get a video mix update though IM dying over here without your usual Pre season Clipper Mixtape!!! But back on point lets see the season play itself out 1st b4 we start using the terms "overpaid" too prematurly.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 405447by Agent0 » Sep 12, 2013 - 03:11 PM PST
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He's talking about the comparison. We said Redick is like older Ray Allen, not prime Ray Allen, but Jarca has already said he doesn't like Redick, so of course he's more likely to spin that in a negative light.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 405448by clipper*joe » Sep 12, 2013 - 05:01 PM PST
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I'll try to get one out but this year, I've been reeeeaaaal busy. lol

No promises.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405450by jarca » Sep 12, 2013 - 06:16 PM PST
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So Redick is like the Ray Allen that harassed Kobe in the final defensively? So techniqically we have a big 3. Cp, BG, and Redick

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405451by Clippersfan86 » Sep 12, 2013 - 06:40 PM PST
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Yes Redick is comparable to Boston Celtics Ray Allen. Almost identical PER 36 stats as shown and similar skill level defensively. Neither great or elite defenders but both above average. I wouldn't go around using one series to label Allen a defensive stopper. I don't know why it's such a stretch for some to grasp but to think Redick can be a reliable 3rd option who puts up say 15/4 on elite efficiency and solid defense... isn't a stretch by any means. He's going to get more open looks than he ever has before with CP3+Blake.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405452by jarca » Sep 12, 2013 - 07:05 PM PST
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^^^ Dj has comparable per to the top 15 centers but 90% of the board wants him gone

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 405453by Clippersfan86 » Sep 12, 2013 - 07:09 PM PST
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People want him gone mostly for fit, not because he's a bad player. Redick on the other hand is an incredible fit, at least on paper. I see a big year for him. Besides a lot of that has to do with such a mediocre center crop the last decade.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 405455by CP3Heliflopter » Sep 12, 2013 - 07:51 PM PST
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DJ makes a lot more than Redick. Sucks in the playoffs and makes Dwight Howard look like a decent FT shooter.

                
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clips15deep
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405456by clips15deep » Sep 12, 2013 - 07:54 PM PST
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Can't wait to see JJ play on the Clippers.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 405457by Clippersfan86 » Sep 12, 2013 - 07:54 PM PST
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Can't forget that either. One makes 11 mill, one makes 6.5. I feel like Jarca just wants to find SOMETHING to hate on right now TBH, because Redick is an amazing fit and acquisition.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 405458by Agent0 » Sep 12, 2013 - 09:20 PM PST
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A comparison doesn't mean exactly the same in every area, stop being deliberately difficult.

This comparison is talking about tole and offensive production on the respective teams.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405459by Voyeur » Sep 12, 2013 - 10:21 PM PST
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Bringing up Ray Allen (or any other player) makes me nervous anyway. I'd rather think of Redick will bring his own attributes to the team. I'd love to see him break out and show some of that Duke flash. But even if he just becomes a solid 3-point shooting role player, it should still be beneficial!

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405460by cleepers » Sep 12, 2013 - 11:33 PM PST
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Comparison?

Ray Allen has the better tan... JJ has more hair. Done.

And jarca... I'm still really impressed you can support a team you hate so much!

#superfan

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405461by jarca » Sep 12, 2013 - 11:41 PM PST
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Says the guy who hated on players who utter a negative word about VDN roll wink

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405462by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:02 AM PST
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^ Yeah, my hate for the team, coaching and management is legendary around these parts. That must really piss off a true fan like yourself.

I wonder how much you'd be sniffing Tony Parker's sphyncter if we actually signed him... my bet is that he suddenly wouldn't be as good.

                
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ClipperB23
Post ID: 405463by ClipperB23 » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:10 AM PST
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^ cleepers actually supports his team through thick and thin. He's not the one who hates Donald Sterling with a passion, calls Blake Griffin soft, CP3 overrated, and JJ Redick overpaid... Surprised

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405464by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:14 AM PST
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You forgot about your man crush on VDN Very Happy

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405465by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:16 AM PST
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^ I'm not the one who keeps bringing up his name, dude.

Miss him, do you?

Don't worry... I'm sure you'll learn to hate Doc just as much before too long.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405466by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:26 AM PST
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By your logic, you must love sniffing Parker's jock strap Razz

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 405467by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:41 AM PST
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Repped High Quality Post

Well apparently, that's what it takes to be a Clippers fan, right?

  1. Constantly denigrate our 3rd year, 3-time All-star, 2-time All-NBA franchise player.
  2. Doubt our All-world PG against the majority of expert opinion.
  3. Call all our roleplayers overpaid.
  4. Question the very existence of our FO, even after a 75% improvement in win total in only 2 seasons.
  5. Lie on your back open-mouthed hoping for a Parker T-bag.

#Superfan

                
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david
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405468by david » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:43 AM PST
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Let's stop questioning each others' fandom and get back to player discussions w/o going personal. Thanks in advance....

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405469by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:54 AM PST
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Again says the guy who called Cp a diva and almost went postal when it was clear that Cp didn't want Vinny back. But you're so loyal lol

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405470by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:57 AM PST
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^ Have fun finding that post.

You'll find my opinion was constant that there wasn't a better available coach... and there wasn't.

Fortunately, our "non-existant" FO (your words, not mine - quote "we don't have a FO") managed to get an unavailable coach.

I'm sorry for you that the Clippers are getting harder and harder to hate... but I have no doubt you'll keep finding ways, no matter how unreasonable.

#superfan

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405471by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:57 AM PST
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Sorry David but Cleepers needs to learn how to use the ignore button so he can stop stalking me. I was having a good conversation here till this guy showed up. It seems obvious that he holds a grudge over a debate that I clearly schooled him on a while back

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 405472by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:07 AM PST
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Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04 Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04

You schooled me, dude. That's comedy school, right there.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405473by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:10 AM PST
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You mad? I'll be the bigger person and say I love you Very Happy

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405474by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:19 AM PST
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You do know I'm not French and don't play for the Spurs, right?

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405475by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:23 AM PST
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Silly! VDN isn't French but he did play for the Spurs

                
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FreaKeyy
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405476by FreaKeyy » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:30 AM PST
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^lol good one.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 405477by cleepers » Sep 13, 2013 - 03:33 AM PST
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You're the one mentioning "l'amour". I just hope you'll be happier than the previous Mrs. Parker.

Best wishes to you both.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405478by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 08:16 AM PST
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How cute you're still mad Razz

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405479by namzug » Sep 13, 2013 - 09:48 AM PST
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what was this thread about? you guys are funny.

I think the anticipation for the season is getting people worked up.

With that said, I think they will definitely fill a similar role in Doc's system. I think running JJ run off screens will work great, and if he can force the offense to a certain direction he might do great on defense too. I think he can definitely bring what Ray Allen brought to the Celtics, to us.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405481by Voyeur » Sep 13, 2013 - 10:21 AM PST
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Here's a post that's eerily related to this topic...I like the breakdown of Redick's shooting in this analysis:

http://fullyclips.com/2013/09/12/look-r ... s-offense/

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405482by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 11:35 AM PST
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I agree that Redick is a great shooter. But there's a huge difference between shooting a wide open set shot like Redick to Allen who was still defensive focal point in Boston. I'm not worried about Redick in the regular season. He'll get his. I'm worried about the playoff when the defense intensify and your flaws are magnified.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: JJ Redick and Ray Allen Comparison Post ID: 405483by Clippersfan86 » Sep 13, 2013 - 12:33 PM PST
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I'm sorry Jarca but you're very misinformed. Allen was never known as a "defensive" focal point. KG anchored the Celtics defense and if they wanted perimeter defense on guys like Kobe it was Tony Allen, not Ray Allen. That's who held Kobe in check in the finals and who you're confusing Ray with apparently. Tony Allen came off the bench and gave Kobe fits and got a "Kobe Stopper" nickname. Ray Allen has always been an average defender, like Redick. Redick is actually a more tenacious defender if anything and Doc could really do something with that.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 405484by jarca » Sep 13, 2013 - 01:18 PM PST
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You misunderstood me. I meant that other team paid close attention to Allen. They didn't just let him shoot open shot. The difficulty level of his shot is much higher than Redick who benefits via set shots from drive and kick which will be eliminated comes playoff. It's no mystery that reddick struggled last year in the playoff. It's the same reasons guys like Novak and jcross struggles.

And yes Allen did keep Kobe in check. Tony Allen just played what 15 MPG. Who guarded Kobe for the other 23-30 mins?

                
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