The Warriors, the Only Legit Threat to Us in the Pacific

Clippers TopBuzz Forum/Message Board » Clippers News & General Discussions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Search This Topic:
 
Grillinnap
Age: 27
Posts: 7377
Location: Laughing at irrational Laker morons
votes: 22
 

I've been to many basketball sites and we're not really the overwhelming favorites to win the division. A lot of people are picking the Warriors to finish ahead of us. It's getting annoying. Then again, they have a legit shot to win the division. What do you guys think about the Warriors? Are people overrating them? How much impact does Iggy bring to that team?

hockeypro68
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 54
votes: 1

Just look at our roster. Be objective. People are homers and idiots. We are favorites to win the west in my opinion

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 6011
votes: 10

Barring an injury disaster we are the favorites to win the Pacific by a mile. The Warriors got better but they also loss their assistant coach who was the real brains behind the operation and they loss several other good players like JJack. If they are healthy they have a very slim chance of having more wins than us and I doubt they will be healthy. Not to mention Iggy will take minutes away from Barnes and is on the downside of their career. They got better but they are still a low 50 win team at best.

They also won't be a bad matchup for us anymore now that we have a coach that has great defensive schemes that are good at defending the 3 ball and now that we have better wing defenders and a motivated C in DJ.

loyalclipfan
Clipper Starter
Posts: 846
Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752
votes: 3
Mark Jackson is a good coach, but I think doc rivers and Alvin gentry are better. While I think that they will be close games that the refs can screw us with the game outcome,....

Please log in to view the entire post.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

Warriors look good. They added Andre Iguodala and Jermaine O'Neal for the bench. Also, I think many people forget that the core composition of that team were young guys like Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and Stephen Curry. Just like the Thunder a few years ago they were just waiting to mature (and also the addition of Kendrick Perkins) in order to make that leap from early playoff exit to contender.

I believe that GSW is also along the same trajectory, a very good but young perimter oriented team that simply needed to develop.

The key factor in whether we or GSW will be top seed is going to be how we matchup against each other TBH. Because when it comes to talent these two teams are neck and neck.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8957
votes: 20

Unless all goes wrong for the Clippers, the Warriors will be right there....in 2nd place. Iggy is a very good get for the them (still the better all around player then Barnes easily), but the loses of their FA players and assistant coach, plus the Clippers huge improvements, will be too much to over come IMO.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
 Avatar
Posts: 4056

us.gif
votes: 46

If the question is can the Warriors beat enough other teams in the regular season to ultimately have a better record then us, then the answer is sure because a lot of teams can't defend GSW's 3 point threats.

That doesn't mean they are better than us. If we are playing them head to head we are the better team, we could eliminate almost all of their weapons by running a consistent defensive scheme. If we don't go for offensive rebounds like Doc mentioned we would do, then that neutralizes fast break points which is Iggy's greatest weapon. Doc is probably the best at stopping the 3 ball which is clearly GSW's back bone. David Lee won't have free room to operate in the paint anymore if DJ is the defensive juggernaut that he appears to be.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure the Warriors are even a threat at all to us. I can't think of a single category that the Warriors beat is in. I would say they have a tougher arena to play in for sure because of their fans, but they won't be getting them hyped from dunks or consecutive 3 pointers anymore.

Coaching staff: LAC>>>>GSW

3 point threat: LAC=GSW

Interior Defense: LAC>GSW

Overall Defense: LAC>>>>GSW

Second Unit: LAC>>GSW

PG Position: LAC>>GSW

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

I agree with you that on paper we should be better than them. But I also thought we were better than them last year too before the matchups began. I would have to agree that our improvements this year were way too much, but I guess that is why they say "thats we play the games."

We will find out soon. Also, you seem to have all the matchups judged in the right way, except 3 point shooting. I think thats still one area they will be better than us, albeit just slightly

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116

They were simply a bad matchup for us last year. They were among the best 3PT teams and we were among the worst at defending it. They got lucky when Westbrook went down or they'd have been a first round out too. They lost any clutch play they had when Jack left.

We have quicker and better perimeter defense this year, elite coaching, some shooters of our own and the ultimate clutch guy in CP3.

I'm not sweating the dubs.

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

Part of me is still nervous about GS because of how they kinda dominated us last season. But we were terrible defending the three last season and, of course, they were great at shooting the 3. Our defense will be different this year and so will our offense, so it'll be hard to judge how we'll do against this team until we meet them.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

You're right about the 3 point issue. What I see now is a more aggressive defensive unit under Doc Rivers. Other teams aren't burning us from the three like teams were last year, so in that regard we may have closed that gap

Grillinnap
Posts: 7377
Location: Laughing at irrational Laker morons
votes: 22

They played Denver in the 1st round. Rockets played OKC. Speaking of OKC, I think they're they're taking a step back this year. I have Memphis winning the Southwest.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

Good summary. I think even considering the fact that our roster has so many new comers the result will be completely different. Personnel wise they have to re-adjust to all these new guys we brought in. Some of these new pieces we added are much more athletic as well. We got younger when we lost Billups and Butler for Dudley and Redick by those moves alone we should keep pace with their speed

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

Agree on that one too. They did brillaintly last year in trading Harden for assets, but there's no way that Reggie Jackson can do exactly what Kevin Martin did in that 6th man role. I think at some point they can't simply replace a proven guy for another draft pick, their luck has run out with that and now their reluctance to pony up the cash to keep vets is gonna hurt them. The Thunder are still a playoff team, but they stood there and watched GSW and the Clippers outgun them in free agency.

FightOnRon
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4754
Location: The Darkside
us.gif
votes: 38

Don't rely on pundits,rely upon what you see. The Division will be ours barring any disasters.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4056

us.gif
votes: 46

Curry's career high against a Doc Rivers defense: 25pts

Doc even held him to 27%FG, 27%3FG, 6ast and he played 42 minutes. GSW ain't got nothin' on us.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

Very good containment.

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8008

rp.gif
votes: 35

We got this. I'm looking forward to BG making David Lee cry and CP3 shutting Curry down

Grillinnap
Posts: 7377
Location: Laughing at irrational Laker morons
votes: 22

Gosh, why do I keep thinking OKC is in the SW division? I guess OKC will still win the NW division. That division is by far the weakest division in the NBA.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

You make it seem like this is Phil Jackson vs. Vinny Del Negro. Mark Jackson is a damn good coach. He had the Warriors looking real good last year. And while I'm happy to have Doc, and think he's better than Jackson, I've heard from many Boston sources that he has his warts too, just like any coach. He's a great coach, but he's not Jesus.

Three point threat, sorry, that goes to the Warriors. I'm happy we got Redick and Dudley and Bullock, but I don't think anything really touches Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. Last season was historically great shooting-wise for Curry.

Interior Defense--both teams have question marks--Will DeAndre figure it out, and will Bogut stay healthy? Both are big questions, and we won't know the answer to either til the season starts, but I would take a healthy Bogut manning the middle over a figured-it-out DeAndre, unless he somehow turns into Bill Russell. Bogut has proved to be a great big defender and is stronger than Jordan and won't get bullied in the post. Bogut looked pretty good in the playoffs last year. After the centers, it's Griffin vs. Lee (a wash, unless Griffin steps up, which is possible) and Jermaine Oneal vs. Hollins/Mullens(advantage Warriors). A lot needs to play out, but as of now not sure I'd give the Clips the nod on interior defense either.

Overall defense: again, not sure why we get the obvious nod here. Clips were 9th overall in def. efficiency last year, and the W's were 13th, so that's already pretty close. The Clippers lost their best perimeter defender(Bledsoe) and got worse defensively up front (Odom/Turiaf for Mullens/Jamison). At the same time, they improved slightly at the wing(Billups/Butler for Dudley/Redick). So that's probably a wash personnel-wise. What we're counting on is Doc turning this team(and specifically DJ) into real defenders. I'm hoping this happens. At the same time, the Warriors were decent defensively and got arguably the best wing defender in the league to sign with them(Iguodala) and, possibly most importantly, appear to have their defensive anchor(Bogut) back and healthy this year. Again, a lot still to be seen, but I don't think we're miles ahead of them defensively, if at all.

Second Unit: Both teams are strong at certain positions and lacking in others. The Clippers have a strong perimeter game in Collison, Crawford, and Barnes(as well as Green and Bullock), while the Warriors have only Harrison Barnes and Toney Douglas as players likely to crack the backcourt rotation. At the same time, the Warriors have Jermaine Oneal, Draymond Green, Marreese Speights and even Festus Ezeli, all of which I would rather have over Hollins, Jamison and Mullens. We might have the edge here because of how good Barnes and Crawford have been--but both teams have their strengths and weaknesses here.

PG position: Chris Paul is better than Curry, but Curry is a really, really good player. Also, while we're at it, why don't we do the other positions? Center--Bogut is probably better, except for the fact that he's not healthy often. Hard to judge this one. Power forward--Lee is an underrated offensive player, but Griffin is better. Small Forward--No question Iguodala blows Dudley out of the water on both ends of the court. Shooting Guard--Klay Thompson is very similar to Redick. Both elite shooters who are great and getting open and are both improving at creating their own shot. Breaking it down by position, it's actually closer than you think.

The Warriors won 47 games last year, missing Curry and Bogut for long stretches due to injury. We saw what they could do when they were healthy in the playoffs. Remember what they did to the Clips in the regular season? Would you have wanted to see them in the playoffs last year when they were playing like that? Remember, they were the only Western team to win a game against the Spurs last year in the playoffs (twice). They really made the Spurs sweat. And then the Spurs went and walked all over Memphis. Shows how tough the Warriors were to beat.

So they won 47 games last year with injury problems and now are getting their best big man back and signed an All Star wing. The only thing holding them back is injuries, and I think that will be the main reason the Clippers win the division. If they could stay healthy I think they could win 55+ games. Given Bogut's/Curry's health histories, I don't think it happens. Clips will win 58 games, Warriors will win 51. That's my guess in the end. But I still wouldn't want to play any playoff games at the Oracle Arena next year.

Heediot
Clipper Starter
Posts: 958
votes: 4

Some of us are disregarding a healthy Bogut. A good center like him will make a big impact. They haven't really had both Him and Lee at full strength together.

They can be a big challenge. I say they are a legit threat. I still think we end up with a better record and make a deeper run.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4056

us.gif
votes: 46

What's a "healthy Bogut"?

I'm not too familiar with the term. Surely you don't mean a healthy Andrew Bogut, right? I've only heard tales about a healthy Andrew Bogut, but of course they were just legends.

If there's one thing I've learned in this life, it's that mythological creatures like Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster, a healthy Andrew Bogut and the Tooth Fairy don't exist.

Silasie
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2012

uk.gif
votes: 2

Next you'll be trashing Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny Wink

Apparently he's healthy now so maybe you'll need to reconsider your entire understanding of reality.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

^^Along those same lines, if you've never heard of a healthy Andrew Bogut, you've likely never heard of an effective DeAndre Jordan, a Blake Griffin who can play defense, a Byron Mullens who can shoot, or a Clipper team that can contend. Because a healthy Andrew Bogut is more common than all of those things.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8957
votes: 20

All but the Mullins part, I respectfully disagree with, especially when Mr. Bogut has only played in 69% (440 out of the possible 640) of the games during his career.

uncool
Clipper Starter
Posts: 907
votes: 5

Who pooped in your coffee dude? Does it make u feel good to make optimistic people feel bad? We've seen signs this preseason that all those things u listed are atleast possibilities so why be so negative about it? Sports are meant to be fun and every fan of every team should be optimistic every offseason. Why make it feel like a job when it's supposed to be an escape from real life?

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116

I'm with seanrooks.

He's jinxing the Warriors the same way he jinxed the lakers this time last year...

http://clippers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-vi ... rt-50.html

Fun reading!

namzug
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1090
Location: So Cal
votes: 11

sorry, @seanrooks didn't know it was your coffee, just kidding.

The Warriors look tough, but I think are young front players are young and look to make a jump forward on defense specifically.

I would take a figured it out DJ over a healthy Bogut, but that's just me. I don't really think that Blake vs. Lee is that close, I would take Blake by a mile (not putting down Lee, just think Blake can be a game changer).

The backcourt is in our favor as well in my opinion, they might have the edge in three point shooting; but I don't think that we are that far behind. With that I think we got a deeper bench, but I think it's closer than we like to think. We have solid backups all the way through each position, Harrison Barnes can't back everybody. I like Toney Douglas but he's not going to stop every one of our back ups.

I will give them the edge in Frontcourt depth, and that isn't even close. So it might be close, but I like to think we should have this settled by March.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

Sigh, here we go again. People get mad at me for trying to be realistic. Byron Mullens is not a good player. Has anyone watched him so far? I think the stats speak for themselves. Last game he had 16 points on 18 shots, and 6 turnovers. He's made 8/26 3s so far, which is not that good, and shot worse than 30% on threes last year. But that's not the point.

My point was, it makes you sound like a homer to say, Mullens will be good, Jordan will finally make the leap, etc etc, but Bogut will never be healthy. You can't have it both ways. Personally, I think the Clippers WILL be better this year, and I do think Jordan and Griffin WILL make those improvements I mentioned, and I do think the Clippers WILL contend. I was making the point that those things have never happened, but can still happen, the same way Bogut can be healthy this year. It's possible. You can't discount Bogut ever being healthy and then count everything to go the Clippers way.

Yes, I was wrong about the Lakers. But if you feel like digging more into my past comments, Cleepers, see if you can find me arguing against all the homers. Remember when I was pessimistic because I didn't think the Clippers would win 60? Well, I said that 60 wins in this league is so rare, that for a team with as many question marks as we had it would be hard to do. I think I predicted 53 or 54 wins, and I got called a hater because "HOW CAN THEY NOT WIN 60??" They won 56, which is closer to 53 than it is to 60.

Keep digging, you'll find the part where I said that despite the additions they made last summer, they still had much of the same problems--lack of defensive players or a defensive system, a bad coach, a stagnant offense, a lack of backup bigs. I got called a hater for that too. I got called a hater for saying I thought the Clippers would have a second round exit last year. Turns out that was optimistic!!

I got called a hater for saying there were a bunch of questions and uncertainties surrounding the team which led me to question their status as a surefire contender. Such as:

-Will Odom actually be better in LA? I was skeptical, but everyone was convinced coming back to LA would rejuvenate him again. The answer was probably somewhere in between, but I'd say he ended up closer to the 'washed up' end of the spectrum than to the 'rejuvenated star' end.

-What will we get from the older guys? I questioned how much production we'd get from our over the hill guys (Butler, Billups, Hill, Odom). Odom, I mentioned. Butler was basically the same mediocre guy from the year before. And Billups and Hill barely saw the court. But I'm such a hater for questioning if a 40 year old and post Achilles' injury 36 year old will be productive!

-What improvements will we see from the youngsters? I questioned if Jordan, Griffin, and Bledsoe would improve as much as we wanted them to. While everyone was predicting Griffin to put up MVP numbers and Jordan to be an All Star or DPOY, I was more skeptical, saying that such drastic improvements, especially from multiple players, was rare. Griffin showed steady improvement, but nowhere near what some people predicted. Jordan made some progress before regressing and becoming a victim to VDN. Bledsoe was a pleasant surprise.

-How healthy will we be? I questioned how a team that was already missing Billups, had a 40 year old Hill, Bledsoe coming off an injury the previous year, and 2 stars who have at least some minor history with injuries would do healthwise. I said that Paul always seems to get banged up at some point, and Griffin always has a chance of a disastrous injury, despite his near perfect on court record since his rookie year. In the end, Billups and Hill missed a ton of time, Griffin got banged up, and Paul missed a big stretch of games in the middle of the season.

-How will the new guys replace the departed? I questioned how Crawford, Barnes, Hill, Turiaf, Odom, Hollins would do replacing Evans, Martin, Young, Williams, etc. I said the main thing the team lost was inside toughness, how we would have trouble facing teams like Memphis and the Lakers(OK, I was wrong about the Lakers here, again). But I was right about them missing that inside presence, as the Grizzlies pounded us inside in the playoffs.

So what does that all add up to? I made my predictions last year trying to be as fair and impartial as possible, and get called a homer for it. My main points? We had a lot of uncertainties surrounding new players, coaching and injuries to be a 60 win team. I said we would win 53 games and be a 4 seed and lose in the second round. We won 56 games, were a 4 seed and lost in the first round. My Laker predictions may have been off(let's be honest, that Laker season was totally wild). But my Clipper predictions were not as pessimistic as they were made out to be at the time.

By the way, can you point out exactly what I said that was so pessimistic or haterish? I think I made some valid points and backed them up, both in last year's posts and today.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

The problem I have is with everyone being optimistic about only the Clippers, but pooping in everyone else's coffee. It doesn't make sense to me that people can be optimistic about Mullens suddenly becoming a good player after showing very little promise in his first 3 seasons, but are also totally sure that Bogut will not be healthy despite the fact that he got healthy and played pretty well in the playoffs and said this offseason that he feels better than he has in years. Be optimistic about Mullens if you want--I'll respectfully disagree, but I don't have a problem with it if you approach other aspects of the game the same way.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 6011
votes: 10

Mullens is pretty awful tbh. I doubt he will pan out. He was a low risk guy with some potential so its no big deal. He has a long way to go.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116

@seanrooks...

Settle down, dude... did I call you a hater?

I'm just having some fun and pointing out that last offseason, you predicted the lakers to be 5 wins better than the Clips and in actuality we were 11 wins better than them.

Many people pointed out that the lakers would have injury, depth and chemistry issues and you were having none of it. With Curry and Bogut's injury histories, I wouldn't be putting my money on both of them playing 82 games, so it's a fair point for posters here to make.

It's that time of year when hopes are high. Do we have issues? sure... I'm concerned about our front-court depth and the need for even more improvement from Blake and DJ, but don't take a bit of fun as a personal attack.

You seem to put everyone who disagrees with you in the same box and react hypersensitively to that disagreement. Chill out, man.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
 Avatar
Posts: 4056

us.gif
votes: 46

Seanrooks,

I feel like you take getting called a homer way too seriously. Most of your statements made about the Clippers are usually made based on the fact that you don't want to sound too biased and therefore your opinions aren't truly that of your own. Honestly besides you and maybe a couple of other self conscious people on here, nobody gives 2 flying sh*ts if somebody is a "homer" or not.

The only sure fire way of relinquishing a true Clippers fan of homerism is to buy a jersey of an opposing team, go to all of the opposing teams games, root for the opposing team, spend all your time talking about the opposing team, call yourself a fan of the opposing team and then maybe you won't be called a Clippers homer.

I think DJ can be a good defender along with Blake, I think Mullens can be a good asset with his shooting and floor spacing, I also think Bogut is extremely injury prone. I'm sorry if that doesn't qualify as a real opinion under the seanrooks handbook. I'll work harder to appease you next time.....or would that technically make me a seanrooks homer? Oh boy, this is harder than it looks.

uncool
Clipper Starter
 Avatar
Posts: 907
votes: 5

I didn't even say Mully will be "good", I'm just pretty sure that Doc will find a good way to use him & I think he's low priority. We probably won't lose a playoff series because of a backup center matchup. If he keeps chucking bricks, I doubt that Doc will continuously give him the Green light all season. But I honestly think that Doc believes that if he makes 30% of those, it keeps a big out of the paint for DC & JC & I think that's more important to him. I doubt that Doc thinks he'll make 40% all of a sudden.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

You may not have explicitly said "hater," but by bringing back that thread from last year where I was called a hater and a Laker fan a million times, it seems that was implied. If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize.

And yes, it's fair to assume the Warriors will have their share of injuries, I said so myself. I said before, they won 47 games last year with a bunch of injuries, and I think they're better this year, but will still have injuries, so will finish at 51 wins--behind the Clippers. I don't think that what I said is that crazy.

And I take it as a personal attack because, well, that's how it came off. Referencing that conversation from last year that was laced with personal attacks kinda did that. And if it was meant to be funny/sarcastic, well, it's hard to tell over the internet, especially when it's coming from a person you don't even know.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

Caps,

Homerism bothers me. It's all fine to be optimistic. But personally, I enjoy talking basketball from a more realistic viewpoint, and I don't enjoy it that the less optimistic, less homerish views such as mine are often under attack on these sites. I don't know how many times I was called a Laker fan or referred to as one who poops in coffee or whatever on this site. Someone predicts a championship for the Clippers based on his opinion that DeAndre Jordan will be MVP is praised, whereas someone who predicts the Clippers will lose in the second round because of DeAndre Jordan's shortcomings gets picked apart. Be optimistic, but at least try to be realistic as well, or at least respect other people who try to be. I apologize if me thinking Mullens is terrible bothers you, but I just think that's more realistic than him being a valuable asset.

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

I wasn't in love with the implication that Blake doesn't play defense. He may struggle in some areas on D but to suggest he doesn't play defense is just wrong...especially when making an argument defending the health of Bogut.

Markojaric
Clipper Starter
Posts: 282
Location: Buenos Aires
ar.gif
votes: 2

Im with seanrooks in this one. The warriors are legit.

One thing is to be optimistic but respectful. If the clippers seem themselves as the "blue collar" , cursed, hard working team from LA, we should be respecting the rivals and know they are a threat.

If we dont respect them, we are gonna become as hateful as the Lakers. And im a clips fan becase the lakers are all the things I dont want to be.

All Seanrooks was doing was explaining that the Warriors are not pushovers and they ll give us a run for our money this year. Which I agree. We can beat them? Yes we can. We will do it? Well see.

(Again, sorry if my english is not very understandable.)

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

^^Your English is plenty good. You probably just said what I've been trying to say all along, but better.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
 Avatar
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116


Repped High Quality Post

But at no point have I ever attacked you, so I'd appreciate it if you took out your frustrations on those who do.

If somebody believes that DJ will improve, that's one thing, but lumping that person in with the guy who thinks he'll win MVP (did anyone even say that... ever?) is disingenuous.

You put everybody who disagrees with you to varying degrees on various subjects all together and use one person's argument against another.

Some people believe the Warriors overachieved last year and will have a hard time matching that, others believe they lost as much as they gained and will perform similarly or worse, others think that they did get better... but we got a LOT better. Those are all very different arguments.

Just because they all differ from your own, it doesn't make this seanrooks against the world. Everybody has their own opinion and usually the more outlandish ones will be called out on this board.

I haven't seen anything on this thread that says the Warriors will have the worst record or that the Clips are a lock for a ring, but that's how you make it seem.

Much like on the lakers thread from last year, valid points are being expressed... and last year those opinions turned out to be very well conceived.

Shock-horror! the "homers" were right all along.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

Alright, I don't even know what to say anymore. These conversations just go all over the place.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8957
votes: 20

I worry about the Warriors, but I worry about OKC, SA, Houston, Memphis and the 2 time NBA champs a hell of a lot more.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

Also, Cleepers, I took your sarcastic posting of that thread last year where I was wrong about the Lakers with the caption "fun reading!" as an attack, especially when it came right after someone else's post saying I poop in coffee. If it was a joke, well, I'm sorry, but I originally took offense.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116

^ Nobody said you poop in coffee, mate... I'll go on record as saying I don't think you'd ever do something that disgusting.

They wondered if somebody had pooped in YOUR coffee, since you seemed to be treading on people's optimism for the team... again.

ClipperB23
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2154
votes: 21

Very fun reading, especially since you and I both had correct predictions Very Happy

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

This is what I'm talking about. Maybe not a direct attack, but claiming I "tread on people's optimism" is definitely something. All I feel like I did was bring up valid points on both sides, and I still said the Clippers would finish 7 games ahead of the Warriors. How is that treading on optimism?

How about this: make a list of questions for me to answer--ask me anything, about predictions, how many games they'll win, how many games the Lakers will win, what place we'll finish in, how good Andrew Bogut will be, how many games he'll, play, how good players will be, how far we'll go, whatever you want. I'll answer them directly and honestly so you can see exactly where I stand on the optimism/pessimism/hater/homer spectrum in an orderly way.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
 Avatar
Posts: 4056

us.gif
votes: 46

Seanrooks,

To get back to your original post on here about the Warriors,

I'm not comparing just Doc to Mark Jackson, I'm comparing Doc, Gentry, and Lue to Mark Jackson and whoever else is on that staff.

Same goes for the PG position, it's not just CP and Curry. It's CP and Collison vs Curry and Douglas. We obviously we win that spot. Same goes for SG position, JJ, Green, Jamal and Bullock vs Klay and Bazemore. You honestly think we don't win in that category? How about Center? There's a lot of what ifs, what if Bogut is healthy? What if DJ stays productive? I'm personally going to give this to us because I have less faith in the health of Boguy than I do in DJ playing consistently, which isn't that much to begin with. You also said we win the PF slot and I would agree they win SF slot.

The 3 point battle is very close because Curry and Klay are killer from deep along with Harrison Barnes who's also good, they have other guys who are decent like Bazemore and Iggy, but that's it. We have the greatest 3 point shooter in Clippers Franchise history in Jamal Crawford, Willie Green, JJ, Dudley, Jamison, Barnes, Bullock and you favorite player Byron Mullens. And when you factor in Doc's ability to stop the 3i think its clear we win this position.

So that's 6 positions we win compared to their 1 position which is SF, but don't forget that Iggy isn't going to have an open lane to the basket on fast breaks anymore.

And of course I didn't want to see the Warriors last year in the playoffs vs last years Clipper squad, but here's the kicker. We aren't the same team as last year, we have an entirely new system and supporting cast compared to last years reliance on Jamal and CP isolation plays under Vinny The Average. Warriors also changed, they got 3 good pieces in Iggy, Speights and O'Neal, but gave up like 4 good pieces in Jack, Landry, Rush, and Mike Malone(their defensive guru)

If I had to make a case for how the Warriors could beat us I'd definitely mention Currys ability to go off for 50 and the shooting tandem of Curry and Klay which may be the best EVER. Like I said in an earlier post though, Currys career high against Doc is 25 points.

seanrooks
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1364

us.gif
votes: 31

^^Fair points. I don't think we really disagree on much--I thought you were only talking about the starters, so that changes it. Keep in mind though, that how the players all fit together and a bunch of other things have to be taken into consideration. Again, I did say at the end of my post that I thought the Clippers were better.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 6011
votes: 10

You guys will realize soon enough that Mark Jackson isn't anything special as a coach. The real brains of the operation was the assistant coach of the GSWs Mike Malone. A guy that has always been well respected in the league.

Mark Jackson is a fairly good motivator but he is mediocre at every other aspect of coaching. He is a rich man's VDN which doesn't amount to much.

The GSWs as I said before have a slim chance of winning the Pacific if everything goes well for them and things don't go too well for us but I predict that they will be a 50 win team while we will be a 58-60ish win team. We had significantly more RS wins last season and I think we improved more than they did especially coaching wise. We will actually have defensive schemes. Doc led teams have always defended the 3 ball well compared to VDN who has terrible defensive schemes.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
 Avatar
Posts: 8997

us.gif
votes: 116

To be honest, I'm not really interested enough in your brand of "realism" to care.

I prefer those opinions that fall on the optimistic side of "realistic" and I fully admit it. If that makes me a homer, so be it. Nothing you've said - last offseason, or this - is irrationally negative and you haven't misrepresented any facts at all. But neither have the majority of those who disagree with you.

For my money, it comes back to a point I made last year... that none of us know anything about what the coming season will bring. Not a single one of us has anything but our own conjecture to hold up in discussion. I believe that speculation is colored by one's default emotion where the team is concerned... hope... or fear. Hope that the team will do as well or better than we think, or fear that they may not. Given the choice, I will always choose hope because it's more fun to live with.

The hope crew (or "homers") won out over the fear crew (or "haters") last year - at least as far as the regular season and the "Who's the best team in L.A.?" question is concerned. I hope they do again this year where the Warriors are concerned... though I am by no means claiming that they will as an indisputable fact.

The best analogy of optimism/pessimism/realism I can think of right now concerns raising children...

There are those parents who will say, "Little Jimmy, you are so wonderful and talented and smart that you will SURELY become President one day!". I don't think this serves the child well because realistically, little Jimmy has about a 1 in 30,000,000 of actually becoming President, but falling short even by a little would still feel like a disappointment.

There are those who will say, "Little Jimmy, you have NO CHANCE of becoming President, so you might as well just forget about that right now!". Once again, not a good idea because the lack of a goal is a sure way to breed a lack of effort.

Then there are those who say, "Little Jimmy, if you work hard you have a CHANCE to become President!". This, to me is encouraging and supportive... like being a "fan" of your child.

You seem to be more the type to say, "Little Jimmy, I suppose there's nothing STOPPING you becoming President, but realistically little Tommy down the street is better-looking, smarter and comes from a wealthier family than you... but have at it, kid!".

Once again, it may not be factually incorrect - and may even be more "realistic", but it just doesn't have that same optimistic spirit. Nobody here is saying we are absolutely unbeatable and a lock for a chip... or that the Warriors suck donkey nuts, it's just a 'glass-half-empty' or 'glass-half-full' scenario.

So this October, like every October for the last 9 years, I will be hoping my Clippers win a championship... the only difference this year is that "realistically", they finally have a chance to do so.

Go To the Top of the ThreadGo Home

or Comment Using FB

Post new topic   Reply to topic


← Hardwood Paroxysm: DeAndre Jordan's No Win Situation

→ Medals for the Game Vs. Kings (Pre-Season)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

register
You are an anonymous user- Register now!


Follow our Los Angeles Clippers RSS Feed, plus the Clippers Rumors RSS Feed, the LA Clippers News RSS feed, and the Clippers Forum RSS feed to get the newest updated Clippers News and Trade Rumors plus Clippers Game update in your RSS/XML reader!