Clippers Vs. Blazers Preseason Game Thread 2013-10-18 (P. 3)

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Voyeur
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Weird game. But gives Doc some locker room material.

Clippersfan86
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I just didn't like the rotations. Mullens should have been benched long ago, preseason or not. Run Davies+Amundson if need be.

Voyeur
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Meh, I'm sure there's a method to Doc's madness.

Icecoldclipper
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Starting to be 100% we will go small off the bench with Barnes at the 4. I think recent games Davies is in the lead for the roster spot I swear if Mullens was on an unguaranteed deal he may have been cut. If Davies keeps playing hard and play more in the post and around the rim like he did in the 4th he may eventually become the first big off the bench.

Clippersfan86
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In the case of Mullens, I don't believe there is. Doc+Gentry keep encouraging him to shoot ALWAYS when open.. but if the damn guy isn't hitting shots, he needs to do other things well. That's what a good player does. If I run games at the gym.. and my shot isn't falling.. I focus more energy into defense... it's really common sense. For him to shoot so bad AND have an ATROCIOUS defensive game, there is nothing good that can come out of it.

Clippersfan86
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http://www.nba.com/clippers/live

Doc postgame. Can rewind.

ClipsGForce
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You guys are too funny. Bench Mullins, terrible line up, Blake or DJ should be in. OMG guys, it's only a preseason. He's just testing the water. It's not Vinny remember

cleepers
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Offense was actually working pretty well early on, but damn, the shooting was abysmal from every spot. Nothing you can do about that. Maybe first home game jitters?

Looking at those 30ft banners of yourself can be pretty intimidating... took me a while to get used to the ones of me I have hanging in my house Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_16

Good stuff from Blake "no jumpshot" Griffin and Collison looked like CP3 carrying a bad team in the 4th until they keyed in on him knowing that literally NOBODY else was a threat.

Bye-bye Amundsen... he won't be missed. I'll take the green rookie over his unproductive "hustle".

Clippersfan86
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Agree on Amundson. I expected way more. Davies should get the job. Younger, more upside, been with team, less of a FT shooting liability.

Agent0
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Pre-season is exactly when Mullens should be getting minutes so you know what you can get from him.

Also, Mullens hasn't yet figured out how to be a good player and therefore be able to consistently contribute in other ways when his shot isn't falling. There's a reason he was available for cheap, it is because he had work to do, so that should have been expected.

Silasie
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Agreed.

Silasie
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Interesting that Doc said he didn't want Blake to play but Blake wanted to, and Doc said it's a trust thing that is built in the locker room. He said a bit more implying that if a players says they are good to play and they aren't you can't trust them with that.

He also said there were combo's of players out there that wouldn't normally happen confirming what a lot of us suspected that it is just pre season and he is messing around trying to see what he's got.

Agent0
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Wow, really didn't pay attention to the fact that Dudley is indeed the only SF on the roster that is active, poor guy

realbull17
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this loss is nothing next to the killing the dodgers got.

Voyeur
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I don't understand how JJ is the furthest away from recovery according to Doc. I think JJ needs to catch Doc in a "good mood" like Blake did.

LeftHook
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AHAHAHA! I was reading the last few pages since I didn't finish the game, and as I read some of the posts, I was thinking "Wow, this guy already?", then I read this post...AHAHAHA!

Clippersfan86
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My only complaint about Doc was Mullens, so don't act like I was nitpicking. Mullens is already one of the most frustrating players I've seen in a Clippers jersey and I'm starting to see why most are skeptical. Sure he has a good game here there but just as many games where he shoots under 30 percent. No center in the NBA should ever be shooting so many 3's. Last couple games he's been the one guy standing out as a lazy and or low IQ defender.

Davies and Amundson are both highly flawed but always play their asses off, so they don't frustrate as much. Jamison is a bad defender but he plays hard and tries at least, just slow.

Clippersfan86
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In hindsight I was wrong about putting starters back but not wrong about the idea of benching Mullens who killed us with brick after brick and wide open jumpers for Freeland.

TheDude
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Why do you get so hot and bothered about a glorified practice?

What do Doc's rotations in a practice game have to do with anything?

We still have to cut at least 1 guy and maybe 2. He wants to see everybody since it makes zero difference whether we win these games or not.

He's not showing his rotations for a game that matters. He's giving everybody an opportunity. It's just like when you were 8 years old playing at the YMCA. Everybody gets to participate in these games.

TheDude
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I wish we could keep them both. It's possible, we'd have to cut Wayns and go with a full 15 man roster. Problem is we may have to cut somebody mid season if injuries come about and we have to add a guy.

I can see Amundson being of use at some point this season. He's basically the same player as Reggie but not as good a rebounder. Good athlete and tough. Plays hard all the time but he can't defend without fouling.

Davies seems like a decent prospect and I'd love to pull a Spurs and squeeze some production out of no-name under the radar guy. Just don't think he's a good enough athlete to consistently play the 3 or big/strong enough to play the 4. Good instincts and a good jumpshot though.

Wish we could just pay Davies a couple hundred thousand to play in the D-league for a year or two and keep his rights. He has the potential to develop.

And I still think Doc still has his eye on Lamar. Would not be surprised if Lam Lam finds a way to pull his **** together, if we sign him in Jan/Feb.

Clippersfan86
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As my previous post said it was actually just the Mullens rotation bugging me. Preseason or not I feel chuckers should be reigned in. Mullens will likely shoot us out of a couple games this year. People thought Crawford was a shameless shooter, Mullens is significantly more worrisome in this regard.

Clippersfan86
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Dude we aren't cutting Wayns now that he's injured and it's a fully guaranteed contract. It's down to Davies and Amundson and I'm hoping Davies.

TheDude
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Good game here and there, that's out of a total of 5 games. So I guess he's pretty good then?

I LOVE Byron Mullens. This guy is going to be absolute gold for us this season. He is undoubedly our best bench big already and considering the amount of minutes he's getting with the first team and the fact that he's obviously got a total green light to shoot...Doc is extremely high on this guy too. 24 year old 7ft. 275lb. good athlete with range. If you think you're a good coach, this guy is such a specimen, so much you can do with him.

Of course he's had some bad plays (just like everybody from CP to Blake to Farakhan) and he's sure missed (made a lot too!) a lot of 3's so far but wow it's going to be such a drastic improvement on the offensive end vs. any bench big we've had in recent years.

Just being on the floor he spreads the court so much. When we actually play real games, Doc is going milk this kid to the max.

Just like Collison did last night, there will be games that Mullens carries the team for a half or even the whole game. Kid has all the tools. We are lucky to have the opportunity to get a hold of him, he's had such a rough start with terrible coaches and instability. Doc is going to turn that kid into a solid NBA player.

You're watching him closely because you want to hate him. I also watch him very closely because I'm excited about him. What I saw last night defensively was much different than what you did. He made some steals, his shows are strong almost every time, he plays pretty good help defense and he rebounds fairly well.

Seems like you want him to be this year's Ryan Gomes (what a blessing for us that those idiots in OKC brought that POS to their team) but we still haven't played a game yet. He's shown the ability to excel and he's shown the ability to suck. Considering we had literally zero money to fill our bench with bigs. Getting Jamison and Mullens is about as well as you could possibly do.

The guy I'm disappointed in is Dudley. He's been mostly invisible so far. But again, I don't spend one minute judging anybody until the real games start.

Only thing that matters right now is just getting some run for everybody. Get used to eachother. And figure out who's going to be 6th big. Everything else is meaningless until game 1.

TheDude
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Do you actually think that he's forcing those 3's? He's wide open every time. Do you think Doc is telling him not to shoot? It's obvious that he's doing what the coaches are telling him to do. If Doc was unhappy with his shot selection he'd probably let him know or at least sit him down.

He's been hot and cold so far in the first 5 games of preseason. Just like pretty much all the other 400 nba players.

In a game that matters, if Mullens is consistently throwing up 3's and missing them. I would have to guess that doc will make some sort of adjustment.

He's a role player playing a role. Obviously the role they've given right now is to pick and pop or float around the 3point line to spread the floor.

I haven't seen Doc get frustrated with Mullens once so far. He's doing what he's told to do.

TheDude
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I don't think it's fully guaranteed. Pretty sure it's partial. He's listed on the salary sites at under 200k. That is well below the minimum so I think he's a potential cut.

In fact, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that Wayns will get cut since he's going to miss a lot of the season anyway with the knee.

Clippersfan86
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Nope, Eric Pincus confirmed this. New CBA deal, if Wayns is cut he gets contract fully guaranteed.

realbull17
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according to hoopsworld.com he's under a non-guaranteed. he's more likely to get the boot than davies.

Clippersfan86
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It's impossible for a player to make 200k. Minimum salary is almost 900k, unless I'm misunderstanding.

tense2
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It's fully guaranteed now:

http://www.clipsnation.com/2013/10/17/4 ... -good-news

tense2
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That was before his injury. See my post above.

Clippersfan86
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Thanks Tense. Honestly not mad. Wayns looked mediocre in summer league but in preseason was much better. Now that he's so close to our stars, worth keeping as 3rd stringer with a little upside.

LeftHook
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Doc shouldn't be putting the starters back in to "try" to win a preseason game.

Try not to look at the Win/Loss for these games, Doc and the staff needs these practices to evaluate what they got.

The important things are showing. DJ being in the right spots, DJ showing patience. Players stretching the floor... there were so many open looks!

These are preseason games.

tense2
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^Even Winning last nights preseason game would not have wiped away the stench of their play, LOL.

Clippersfan86
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I agree for most teams preseason isn't important but for a team like us integrating a new system on both ends, two new starters and 7 new players overall, it's the only chance our starters will get to build chemistry and get in sync. Even Doc and our players have said as much.

TheDude
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They are building chemistry and getting in sync and a lot more. And all of those things they are accomplishing are completely unrelated to wins and losses in pre season.

This is not a young team trying to figure out the league. Veteran team of winners, they don't need to practice come backs in preseason.

If CP or Blake gets hurt in the 4th quarter of a preseason game I think there would be a lot of pissed off people.

Akclipps
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Overall a good lesson for our new team.. We still came back and that is a good thing

TheCalmInsanity
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This, 100% this. I don't want to have to get into every thread and remind people it's preseason. Sure I want to win, but if wins/losses were more meaningful why do you think Portland AND the Clippers both had like 3 people out on the floor that aren't even on guaranteed contracts in the 4th quarter?

Preseason isn't too competitive. It's more of a glorified practice. The sooner people realize this the better. Blake Griffin and Chris Paul don't need 4th quarter experience. At all. There are guys on this team that are trying to make the squad, Doc is playing them to see what they've got.

Also, preseason is for trying rotations, and testing out certain lineups (like the smallball one he tried out, etc) to see which guys mesh better with each other. He wants to see if a certain bench player thrown in with the starters is a good fit, he wants to see if 4 bench players and 1 starter works, etc. Everyone who's talking about how Doc should have used a different strategy to win clearly takes preseason too seriously.

EDIT: Also, don't look at makes/misses. Look at the shot attempts and the quality of them. I forgot who made that quote but it was a college coach. Basically, a team that misses 10 wide open (good) shots is a much better team that a team that makes 10 crazy ass shots. The team that gets the open shots is more reliable and can score whenever they want. For the team making crazy shots, luck doesn't tell you when it's going to run out- it just does. At the worst times sometimes too.

TheDude
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That sucks so bad! Whether you like Wayns or not, we just lost a valuable roster spot to a guy who won't even be healthy until halfway through the season and would never see the court unless for injury. Last thing we need is another PG as is evidence by the fact that Collison is obviously extremely good and we have 3 more guys that are likely to play ahead of him even in that case. (I'd rather see a JC/JJ back court than Wayns/JJ for instance.)

There's really very little need for Wayns, even if CP3 AND Collison are hurt.

Crawford, JJ, and Willie are all much more valuable on the court than Wayns and any of them can bring the ball up.

Amundson and Davies and actually our whole team just got screwed. Guys work their asses off and maybe would have won a spot but a fluke injury gets us a broken down 3rd string PG instead of a MUCH more needed back up big.

Clippersfan86
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The same injury can occur game 5 of the regular season and it wouldn't be any better. Can't look at it that way IMO. Bottom line is it's much better to build cohesion now, than during season. Look at our opening few week schedule and you'll understand why getting off to a rocky start could potentially cost us HCA. I'd rather not have to learn while playing against elite teams.

TheCalmInsanity
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Getting injured in the preseason could cost us more than just HCA. There is no reason to tire out your players and have injury risk to have them playing against the other team's versions of Brandon Davies and Lou Amundsons. Like I said these are glorified practices.

If what you were saying was true, at least ONE of the 30 head coaches in the NBA would do it. I know you hate seeing losses but sometimes you have to realize there's a difference between losing hopscotch with your little brother in your backyard and losing money in Vegas.

tense2
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Cohesion is going to take a lot longer than 8 preseason games (particularly with the down time for JJ and Barnes) for the new offense and defense schemes to mesh.

I think somewhere around those 1st 25 or so games (hopefully without any significant injuries taking place) things should be coming together rather nicely.

Clippersfan86
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Fair enough TCI and Tense. I just am nervous about all these injuries and no real time to gel.

ClippersDA
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I don't think this team has the same kind of chemistry as last year's team...you can just tell

TheDude
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If it happens 5 games into the season, it means he earned his spot. He hadn't earned anything yet. He gets the 14th roster spot by default because he got injured. Terrible for the team any way you look at it.

Really terrible for Amundson and Davies. Two guys that could potentially be helpful at some point. They work for a spot and now they probably both get cut. Our bigs depth is the weakness of the team and we just lost the opportunity to add a body.

uncool
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Well, it's the preseason & they have half the roster changed & a new coaching staff, I wouldn't expect chemistry to match the team that arguably had the most chemistry last season...

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