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Agent0
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Raptors have recently stated that everybody not name Valanciunis is available. We could easily get Amir for Jamal, but you guys need to understand Doc isn't going to trade Jamal. Book it.
Available doesn't mean traded for nothing, let's remember that. I don't think we could easily get Amir, teams around the league know what he's capable of, so there will be offers for him. He's a player that has positive impact on both sides of the court, and I watch a good amount of Raptors game to attest to the numbers matching reality. (though he does still foul a....

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seanrooks
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By that logic, why doesn't DeAndre stand out there? He might be able to hit 1/10 for 10%. If he shoots 4%, will they still guard him out there?

Nobody can shut down Duncan, maybe, but people can slow him down. Are you saying we should just say, screw it, Duncan's too good, don't try to guard him, DJ, let's just have Malik Wayns on him.

CapsNClips
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I kind of am saying that. The harder DJ tries to guard Duncan the more fouls he would get. Obviously DJ can slow Duncan down somewhat MAYBE, but he's too smart for DJ, therefore we would have to beat them with our scoring and stop Parker's penetration.

DJ can handle the penetration aspect better than a lot of people (whoops! That sounded weird)... anyways we would need scorers and Jamal is a great scorer. Is Amir Johnson going to have an impact against Duncan? That's a rhetorical question BTW.

Houston, Warriors, Spurs and Memphis are teams that Jamal could take advantage of. Pheonix, Dallas and Sacramento are teams where Amir would come handy in.

Agent0
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Jamal isn't a good matchup against Memphis necessarily. His isolation ability isn't too effective against a defender like Tony Allen. I'd like to see how Redick fares against the Grizzlies, I can't currently remember how Tony does against guy's who are more mobile on offense.

Technically San Antonio also has individual defenders that should be able to handcuff him, and unfortunately since his method of offense as opposed to Redick's does not move the defense as much or draw as much defensive help (if he isn't driving as setting up a jumpshot with dribbling doesn't bring help), if he isn't directly scoring at an effective rate, he doesn't benefit the team offense as much.

CapsNClips
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And how does Amir fair against those teams in the West with Elite big men? Surely you don't think he can completely stop any of them, but do you even think he would be a game changer against them! I personally think not.

tense2
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He may not be able to "completely" stop these guys, but he's held his owe against these guys (except maybe Zack)fairly well. He'll be a backup and face the opponents 2nd unit most of the time or an emergency starter, where he'd do a very good job.

I think he's better then you think he is, just like someone else we know and love.'Razz'

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =griffbl01

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =duncati01

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =ibakase01

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =randoza01

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/321-amir-johnson

CapsNClips
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Can I see him against Dwight and Bogut? I don't know how to find it. Plus, Elite big men are different animals in the playoffs, that's what makes them Elite. And not to mention he didn't really slow them down at all, those players you listed averaged close to the same stats as their reg season averages.

tense2
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Again, he would be Blake's backup and consequently he'll be playing against the opponents backup most of the time...and he would do very well. He would be the best backup PF we've had in a long time.

all those gentlemen are PF's except for Duncan who can play equally well at both positions. Bogut and Dwight are centers, who sometimes can play PF.

P.S.

Look how he did against each player in the individual games....not bad (except for Zack)

CapsNClips
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In the playoffs Blake will be playing 40+ minutes. Not much time for Amir to make an impact at PF. If we are getting a back up big he better be able to bang with the Centers because DJ is our least reliable player if history tells us anything.

Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Andrew Bogut and Zach Randolph are my biggest concerns matching up against.

tense2
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Yes that's right. I was only responding to your "thinking" on Amir. IF and when we get a backup big it's the center spot I'd shoot for...and Jamal would be the trade bait. Period.

P.S.

I have a little more faith in DJ then you....but I guess that goes without saying. Wink

CapsNClips
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That's actually not true anymore, I've jumped on the DJ bandwagon and am now one of his biggest supporters. I know I know, imagine that.

But when I said he's our least reliable player, it's 100% true. I believe he will be great defensively for us in the post season, but a part of me still knows there's a chance he might shrivel up. I do believe in him enough that I don't think we need a backup Center as much as we'd need Jamal's shot creation.

tense2
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If we can get a productive defending big (c) for Jamal, I do it without prejudice.

CapsNClips
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Tonight against Houston should be a great indicator about what we should do. We'll see

tense2
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I have a good feeling what we should do no matter what the out come of tonights game is.

CapsNClips
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I wish Blake had your confidence.

tense2
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Caps, if Blake takes it to the hoop tonight things should go well for him. He either scores or get fouled...and both are good.

CapsNClips
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This game told me, we need a defensive back up center, but also need Jamal when we match up against Houston because their lack of wing defenders.

C'mon Okafor we need you.

tense2
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This game told me what I already knew...offense is not a problem. Defense and a productive backup big or bigs are a necessity.

CapsNClips
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DJ held his own against Dwight and then some, Asik was a dud out there with Griffin on him. The bigs were contained, we couldn't tame the wings like Casspi, Parsons and Garcia. A back up big wouldn't affect that at all.

Mullens was good tonight, even you must admit. Without Jamal's 21 pts I doubt we win this game.

ClipsGForce
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Good luck finding those necessary big guys under our TPE level or minimum contract.

This game also demonstrate that Crawford is a necessary, not luxury.

tense2
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Ok, I guess all is fine then. Sigh...

CP3Heliflopter
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He would be a luxury if the bench didn't give up 10 points in 2 minutes.

ClippersDA
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I just want one game where we give up less than 100 points

Voyeur
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It'll happen when we play a team that's not known for scoring a lot of points.

DocHollywood
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People concluding that Crawford is a necessity when we just scored 137 points are either not capable of thinking or have just chosen not to. I mean really guys. We just showed that we have an A++ in offense and an F in defense. Think McFly. THINK.

Voyeur
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What I find interesting is that last year the criticism was we couldn't score in the half court. We're scoring in the half court, the open court...all over the place right now.

Voyeur
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I know it's way too early and it probably won't last, but our shooting guards' numbers are CRAZY right now:

Redick: 17.3 points, 50% FG, 35% 3 P%, 2.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists

Crawford: 17.8 points, 50% FG, 52% 3 P%, 2.0 rebounds, 2.3 assists

Voyeur
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While I'm at it, our starting Bigs:

Blake: 20.0 points, 59% FG (!), 60% FT, 10.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal

DJ: 11.3 points, 63% FG, 44% FT, 11.3 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 1.5 steals

Silasie
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CP3's stats should be even better, no?

CapsNClips
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So by trading Jamal for a back up big, we will instantly go up to an A+ defense. Wow I wish I could think like you more often, it sure would be fun to always be in fantasy land.

Show me ONE back up big in this league RIGHT NOW that can completely overhaul our defense with less than 12 minutes a game. Go ahead I'll wait.

This might be a crazy theory, and I expect to get stoned for it, but hear me out. What if just maybe our defense could be improved with our starters fully understanding our defense and maybe don't rush to judgement after 4 games.

When Blake and DJ get more comfortable with the defensive schemes and they become 2nd nature, we will go on multiple game streaks of holding our opponents under 100 points.

We have an A+ Offense right now and if we actually have patience (I know it's hard sometimes) we will have an A+ Defense come playoff time. No need to sell low on our bigs. It's a bull market and they're going up.

Voyeur
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True, but EVERYBODY's talking about CP3 and being early frontrunner for MVP...still it's worth noting:

CP3: 26.5 points, 52% FG, 38% 3 P%, 13.3 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 3.3 steals

Voyeur
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I do like what Mike Smith said about Blake. That BG said he game was slowing down for him under Doc and that Doc has made BG feel like he's better able to play D. Sounds like both he and DJ will get better and better under Doc's system.

Clippersfan86
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Phoenix Suns reborn! Lol.

ClipperPostman
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yea and 21 of those points were crawfords. If you watched the game right when it started to slip away and no one could score, both times guess who came up with big shots? Yep crawford.

This won't be every game. Reddick won't be on every game like this. In games that are more grind it out you need a crawford to come in and score.

Not to mention the bench scoring is horrid without crawford. So you add a backup big who plays 20mpg tops, the second unit gets even worse.

Do you know what the job of the second unit? No offense, but anyone who has played basketball knows the point of the Bench is to MAINTAIN THE LEAD and CLOSE THE GAP. They are not called upon to win the game.

Benches are designed for offense. Hence why Ginobli, JR Smith, Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, all come off the bench and can provide instant offense.

Furthermore how does a backup big help when most of the scoring is coming off jumpshots, 3's,bench turnovers, and bad transition defense by the wings.

Again you have to watch the games to know this.

There are so many reasons why trading your powerhouse scorer off the bench for a back up BIG is a ludicrous idea.

Why would you trade your best bench player for another bench player who won't be half as good?

Voyeur
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One might suggest in grind it out games, we need ball movement more than the hope that Crawford's one on one basketball is working. Still, the way Jamal is playing I wouldn't suggest trading him as much as I thought about it before the season officially started.

While it's true we could use a defensive big off the bench, we're also struggling in all areas off the bench. But a lot of those problems look fixable. Barnes does not look like Barnes from last year and Collison doesn't look like the Collison from preseason. Perhaps not coincidentally, they are both coming off injury. If both those guys play like we know they should, our bench's offense and defense should instantly improve...at least enough not to cost us so many points.

Heediot
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Double.

Heediot
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Okafor is the final piece if we can sign him. He will help defensively, and the team will improve as we get acclimated and tinker with the new scheme. With Okafor, the decision on Crawford is easy, keep him (and hop he doesn't disappear in the playoffs).

I think we will give up 100 PPG this season lol

tense2
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Repeat...don't even know IF Okafor will be able to play this season until maybe late Feb. Hope springs eternal, lol.

fullcourt
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Jamal is apart of that ball movement to suggest hat Jamal doesn't move the ball simply is not true.

I think too many people ignore what the coach is saying and simply want Jamal to do what they ant him to do. However Jamal is doing exactly what the coach wants him to do and people seem to have a very hard time accepting that after all summer talking about how Doc would get rid of isolation. Doc has said he is not getting rid if isolation or lob city but adding to it.

Jamal has averaged I think 14 ppg or more for like 11 straight years and is now in his 12th. Doc is not hoping for anything he knows what he will get if gives Jamals the minutes. Not only that Doc likes having that option along with CP in the the 4th where you don't have to call a play but if you do they can run that too.

We literally have the 2k version of Isiah,Dumars ,and the Microwave why would we break up the best backcourt in the league for a backup big.

dukenilnil
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One key missing in the Crawford talk is the luxury tax penalty.

If the Clippers keep the roster as it currently is, they will be a tax team and lose certain exceptions (in addition to paying more money). Thus, the Clippers most likely want to get below that line before the deadline. To do that, they have to move some salary. For better or worse, Crawford makes the most sense (i.e., most tradeable asset, deepest team position).

The biggest issue with being a tax team (outside of Sterling's wallet) is for next year's team where the Clippers would be stuck with the mini-MLE to try to improve the team. Thus, if they don't get below the cap this year, you are likely looking at the same roster for next year as no player of great caliber is coming over for the mini-MLE (of course, could always work out some trades too). While the roster might be good, it hurts not to have that flexibility.

I would love to keep Crawford and hope the team can find a way to do that and avoid the tax penalty implications. But I'm not sure there area a lot of other options.

DocHollywood
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Your response Postman indicates that you still don't fully appreciate that we scored 137 points last night and that we are averaging 119. We are consistently losing 10-15 point leads within 2-3 minutes right after we sub in our bench bigs. Just think about that for a minute. Can Jamal score 10-15 points in 2-3 minutes? Sure, once in while, but not every night. If YOU watched and understood basketball you would realize that you don't bandaid your monumentally bad defense by counting on a one-man-show to score tons of points every night. You fix your defense by fixing your defense. Nearly 100% of people here, probably even you understand that we need a 3rd big for more reasons than just the defense he will provide. An MLE level big man WILL SCORE POINTS (you like that, yes?). Equally important, he will provide injury insurance for BG and DJ. You act like swapping out Jamal for Willie means we suddenly score 21 less points every night. Willie is good for 6-8 with bench minutes and replacing Mullens with a quality 4/5 will also add scoring.

You did say one thing I agreed with:

I couldn't agree more lol.

Voyeur
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Right. That's why I'm saying it's good the way he's been playing. I was just suggesting, perhaps clumsily, that we seem to have a good team dynamic with JJ on the floor without him having to be as hot as he was last night.

CapsNClips
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Jesus Christ, when did back up bigs become the hottest commodity in the league? Obviously ESPN had it wrong by constantly broadcasting Dwight's Free Agency news. They clearly should have been following the Jermaine O'Neal decision instead.

We have something no other team has. Jamal Crawford. So obviously we should trade one of our biggest advantages against any team for something every team in the league including us has. A back up big. We are going to need a defensive juggernaught to stop Boris Diaw and Greg Smith in the playoffs for 7 minutes a game at the most.

If there's one recipe for winning Chsmpionships, it's be like other mediocre teams and don't have a niche that no other team has.

Clippersfan86
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"The Clippers' bench quartet of Jamal Crawford, Matt Barnes, Darren Collison and Byron Mullens has been destroyed so far. They're scoring just 92.5 points per 100 possessions, while allowing 111.1 points per 100 possessions, for a net rating of -18.6."

Like we all suspected the bench is killing us BAD. It's not just in the paint.. in general the bench unit has been atrocious. I'm looking right at Matt Barnes because he was supposed to anchor the bench D and hasn't done jack this year after getting paid. I hate nothing more than a guy getting paid and letting up. He better figure it out or I'm going to want him shipped out for a defensive stopper on the wing or in the paint.

CapsNClips
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Matt Barnes has a couple of nagging injurys he needs to get over, but oh my lord he's been complete trash. Same goes for Collison, very disappointing so far.

fullcourt
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Id say Jamal right now is being pulled down by the rest of the bench considering Doc said at his press conference that he was most impressed with Jamals defense and the guy is so far

24 mpg 18 ppg 50% from the field 52% from three and a PER of 20

Of course that is not gonna be sustained but still its really what is carrying the bench right now and is insanely outrageous

Clippersfan86
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Yea I don't need to hear Doc to know that sadly Crawford has been our best defender off the bench.

Voyeur
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Seriously, would putting Jamison out there really make things worse for our bench?

Agent0
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Jesus Christ, when did back up bigs become the hottest commodity in the league? Obviously ESPN had it wrong by constantly broadcasting Dwight's Free Agency news. They clearly should have been following the Jermaine O'Neal decision instead. We have something no other team has. Jamal Crawford. So obviously we should trade one of our biggest advantages against any team for something every team in the league including us has. A back up big. We are going to need a defensive juggernaught to stop Boris Diaw and Greg Smith in the playoffs for 7 minutes a game at the most. If there's one....

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Agent0
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I don't know if Blake would do 40+ in the post-season, but Bogut certainly won't, he only played 27 MPG last season in the playoffs, and though he should increase, probably to about 33-35 MPG.

Amir is not a C, but he's a PF/C and can play spot minutes at C.

The idea is more about running a 3 man big rotation. The ideal situation is to get a guy like Amir, then get a bigger cheap but servicable big like a Gustavo Ayon just for a situation where DJ is in foul trouble and the other guys might be outmatched.

In the playoffs you can shorten your big rotation to:

Griffin 38 MPG / Johnson 10 MPG

Jordan 36 MPG / Johnson 12 MPG

Johnson is mainly playing the backup C. Howard averages 39 MPG in the playoffs, so in a scenario like that he's playing him for 3 minutes. Bogut played 34 in Milwaukee his one time, and 27 last year. He'll probably be in the 33-35 range. M.Gasol plays about 40 MPG in the playoffs, so if DJ isn't struggling with fouls, again, it is still about 4 MPG that you have the matchup, and Amir isn't incapable of holding his own for 4 minutes.

It's not just about one on one defense though, it's more about team defense and helping.

Amir can do that:

Ayon is a PF/C, but he has good strength/size:

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