Funny Stat For The Clippers After 3 Games (P. 4)

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CapsNClips
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^ Neato stats, hey what's Amir Johnson's playoff #'s? He must have some crazy playoff games that will change my mind by the way you speak of him as a game changer in the playoffs unlike stinky terrible Jamal Crawford.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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^He spent most of his career on the Raptors lol so his playoff slate is almost completely clean outside of spot minutes on the Pistons.

Amir Johnson is a nice player. Good defensively as well. Too bad the new Raps GM is actually intelligent :/.

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
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One of the most meaningless posts I've read. First off Per 36 isn't a real stat for a reason. It doesn't take into account that that player couldn't sustain that for an entire game.

  1. So a player can be complete garbage if left in a whole game, but be "Decent" playing small minutes against other weak bench players, thus giving him a high per36. Get it?

  2. Jamal was 6th man of the year a few years ago, and 2nd place last year, so we know he is better and more valuable then those guys you just posted.

  3. Also don't just pull out "Playoff" stats.

  4. There is a reason those teams went out and got those players. They know how important it is to have an explosive offensive 2 guard off the bench. Common basketball knowledge. Ask any basketball coach on the planet and they will tell you that.

  5. This isn't a debate because Doc agrees with us who say keep Jamal because Doc is a Championship coach and understands a back-up big IS NOT more valuable than an offensive 2 guard off the bench.

CapsNClips
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Hmmm that's precisely my point.

tense2
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Ah, Jamal hasn't exactly been a killer in the PO's. Check out his PO stats both basic and advanced...I know there only "stats", but...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... fja01.html

And just because a good productive player has been unfortunate to play for an awful team doesn't take away his worth.

cleepers
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That's a bit of a reach. If there were a 6th man award for the last DECADE, Ginobili would win hands down. He may have lost a step now, but if you want to look at more recent history, Jarrett Jack was was basically the closer on a team who went further in the playoffs than we did last year, while Jamal's productivity took a noticeable dive from the regular season.

tense2
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^Yeah, the 6th man award is mostly about who can score the most points and that is it.

CP3Heliflopter
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So you are blaming him for being on a bad team lol? Its not like Crawford's production in the playoffs is anything to write home about....

The 6th man award doesn't mean much. J.R. Smith won it last season look at how much he crapped the bed in the playoffs.

Agent0
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You could have at least read the context. Per 36 isn't a "stat" persay, it is a measure of rate of production and it holds true in bigger minutes and with the same role when you have a big enough sample size.

1) All those guys played 19+ MPG, no one there was "playing small minutes", that's why I bolded it, these aren't players playing 5 MPG, everyone knows per minute numbers mean nothing in such small minutes.

2) I know how per minute numbers work and I know the sample size for them to have an significance in discussion, not to mention that Jamal was not the minute leader amongst those guys.

3) I posted playoff numbers because what is being discussed is who would be useful against teams in the post-season. Jamal isn't the first player who can produce offensively in the regular season but isn't as effective in the post-season.

4) You are playing the correlation vs causation game. Guards (not actually just SG's) are frequently used off the bench as creators because there are more skilled scoring guards than there are bigs, so it is EASIER to get a guard for that role.

That's why people say undersized scoring guards are a dime a dozen, and you can usually without too much difficulty replace a bench scoring guard. Which is also why their value amongst teams is usually not as high as their perceived value among fans due to their ability to create and score a lot of points in the regular season.

Let's not mention that 3 of those guys I listed are PG's, one is a big man.

Your team needs what your team needs to win. Yes, a guard off the bench that can create is helpful for certain teams, but it depends on the make-up of the team. A scoring big off the bench with a distributing guard accomplishes the same thing. Also we are talking about helpful and a nice luxury vs essential.

5) Jamal firstly wasn't the leader in minutes played amongst those guys and secondly wasn't the leading scorer. I actually used per 36 to make Jamal look better in comparison to a guy like Jack because Jamal's non minuted adjusted playoff averages are:

Jamal playoff career:

14.8 / 2.0 / 2.4

Jamal Clippers:

10.8 / 2.0 / 1.7

Here are the rest of the players non-minute adjusted averages:

Jack:

17.2 / 4.4 / 4.7

Robinson:

16.3 / 2.7 / 4.4

Ginobili:

11.5 / 3.7 / 5.0

A.Miller:

14.0 / 3.3 / 3.8

R.Allen:

10.2 / 2.2 / 2.8

Blatche:

10.3 / 4.9 / 1.3

Your post does not support any case for Jamal in case you don't realize that. Jamal was 3rd last among those guys in PPG last playoffs. What matters isn't who scores more PPG because different teams need a different amount of minutes from their guys. It is more important who has the best rate of production and efficiency in the minutes that their team needs them for.

CapsNClips "Hmmm that's precisely my point."

This is not a good supporting point in a discussion about Jamal Crawford who didn't make the playoffs until his 10th season at 29 years old. Neither of these guys are superstars, we don't judge them by how far their team goes, that makes no sense.

Why do we do these black and white lack of context arguments like they mean anything? It really doesn't mean anything. Ed Davis has been in the post-season because he got traded to Memphis, is he now more accomplished or "better" than Amir? I hope that isn't the conclusion because of that fact.

tense2
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Good luck Agent0 in your conversations/discussions with the Professor, err Postman. Smile

Voyeur
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You know, as potent as our offense was last year, it obviously wasn't as well constructed as Pop's Spurs teams. I must admit, I was always a little envious of the Spurs (as well as one or two other teams) well oiled machine of an offense. It just dawned on me...that's how we've looked these last 3 games. I'm not saying it's enough to win every game. Hell, the Spurs don't win ever game. But it'll be nice if we can rely on a SYSTEM instead of just Chris Paul with the ball involved in another pick n roll situation or ISO play. Damn, our offense looked good against Houston. But it also looked good against Golden State and to a degree against Sacramento too. And if Redick is correct, we've seen only half of what we're capable of. I can't wait to see how this goes, especially when we start knuckling down on defense.

CP3Heliflopter
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Our offense looks even better than Pop's offense due to having a superior PG.

The problem is that the Spurs were great defensively last season too. I think they were top 5 in offense + def or at least close.

Clippersfan86
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Unfortunately I have to warn you my friend. Please stop with the personal attacks and condescending posts.

dukenilnil
Clipper Rookie
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It was sometime around the first game (right before or after) where Doc said he hadn't even introduced the team to 1/2 of the offence due to the injuries in pre-season. I imagine it is being slowly worked in now, but I'd expect a good chunk of his offense has yet to be taught to the team, much less fine tuned or used in a game.

Silasie
Clipper All-Star
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Very exciting!

Agent0
CTB MVP X2
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I had that same envy.

It is interesting and true what Doc said. He said something like "the system isn't for the stars, it is for the role players."

The system isn't there to allow Paul to be effective, Paul can get his, the system is there so that guys like Redick, Dudley and DJ are always involved in the plays.

He also said the system is there "so that the bench doesn't have to shoulder the burden of having to manufacture offense."

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