Funny Stat For The Clippers After 3 Games (P. 2)

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DocHollywood
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For the sake of furthering this conversation, let's assume you're right: we trade Jamal and our offense immediately drops from #1 to #6 (though it wouldn't). Our new big man plugs the gaping hole Hollins/Mullens presently leave in our defense and we replace JCraw with Willie Green off the bench. Our defense gradually goes from dead last to hopefully somewhere close to mid-pack. Remember how effective Willie was in the preseason as a member of our newly structured offense? 14 or 15 point games where he was slashing to the hoop and drilling 3's. We have Alvin Fu*king Gentry now. His system of offense will continue to create easy opportunities for Willie. This is no longer Vinny and Jamal's great big iso show lol.

fullcourt
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So we add a defensive big and become even more predictable on offense. When CP is out who scores because all you have is guys who at there career best gets you 10-12 points per game ?

Id say we would fall to 8-10 in offense simply because the level of play needed is simply not attainable for 82 games when you factor in the rick of injury and the fact that the bench sans Jamal is already struggling offensively.

What backup big that we could trade Jamal for jumps us to 15 spots in the ranking ?How does that make any sense you would be attributing all of our defensive problems to a 20 mpg backup big.

I know Paul and Blake would keep us in the top[ 10 but I find it amusing how people will tear down anyone to make there argument. How dare I say Jamal contributed anything and go immediately to dismissing any contributions he had while at the same time touting Willie Green as some difference maker on defense.

DocHollywood
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Where to even start...just read the entirety of this thread. Really read it. If you still honestly think Jamal is more valuable to this team than a quality 3rd big I don't know what to tell you. My whole last post was a hypothetical- I wasn't stating any concrete figures and you took everything far too literally. Our offense is awesome. Our defense is horrid. Jamal is all offense and we have too many SGs and SFs. We have a grand total of two functional members of our frontcourt. I'll leave you with this: the best offense is a good defense.

Icecoldclipper
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This team needs Crawford he will not and should not be traded.

ClipsGForce
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We should never trade Jamal Crawford. As much of our big guys suck, the loss of Jamal Crawford would cost us even more. We need his instant office especially at times when the offense is dry. He's always that spark plug that you can count on whenever we need it. So no trading Jamal.

DocHollywood
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This team needs a third big that can lend some semblance of a defensive presence when Blake and/or DJ is out. That is what this team needs. We have scored more points in these first three games than any team since 2009. Our defense has given up nearly as many....do you think this team needs one dimensional offensive SGs right about now? REALLY?

ClipsGForce
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You don't see the big picture Doc. Alvin is not a magician that magically create points for the team. We need playmakers in order for Gentry offense to work. Without Jamal, that will only leave CP3 our only playermaker on the team who can create its own offense making the offensive side stagnant.

Beside let's say we did trade Jamal, who do we get? Be realistic.

There is no big on that range that match Jamal's effectiveness.

Willie Green is good on just spot up shooting and he's can't create offense.

DocHollywood
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I almost wish Blake or DJ would miss the next few games just to make perfectly clear how critically important having a real 3rd big will be. I like Jamal. I wish there was someone else we could trade for an MLE level big. There isn't. And we brought in Darren Collison to run the offense when CP is out, not Jamal. Darren can certainly create his own shot. More importantly, he can effectively distribute the ball to open shooters like Willie Green.

seanrooks
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I'm not saying we should or shouldn't trade Jamal--there are way too many possibilities in which we get good or bad value in return for him, or where we acquire another big another way(10 day contracts, waivers, trading Willie, etc.) But I just want to point out a few things:

  1. I don't think our offense drops off that much by trading Jamal, but I would gladly let it sink if it improved our defense. I would much rather be 10 in offense and 10 in defense than 1 in offense and 20 in defense. Our defense needs more help now, and it's defense that wins in the playoffs in this league.

  2. Someone mentioned something along the lines of "when CP3 goes out, our offense will suck." Which is true, because CP is probably the third best player on the planet now, so regardless of how much depth you have or how your team is constructed, losing a player of that quality will hurt. But will it hurt that much? Replacing him with Collison(who is better than what he's shown in his first 3 games) and having Jamal and Redick there as well to handle the ball would make me feel OK about the team surviving with Paul out for an extended period. A DJ/Blake/Dudley/Redick/Collison lineup with Jamal handling some extra minutes at both guard spots is still a team that can win games. Now, what if Griffin gets hurt? Hell, what if DJ gets hurt? Sure, he's not even close to the quality of player that Paul is. Jordan is not a top 3 player in the world, heck he's probably not even a top 10 player at his own position. But without him, Ryan Hollins and Byron Mullens, 2 players so useless they have negative PERs this season(actually) would be getting heavy minutes. And this team would continue to score the ball relatively well, but a lineup of Hollins/Griffin/Dudley/Redick/Paul is not stopping anyone.

So basically, what I'm trying to say is while I love Jamal, we won't sorely miss what he gives us(backcourt depth, offense) as much as we currently miss some of the things he could give us in return for a quality big man(front court depth, defense). Again, I hope they can pick up a quality big man without giving up anyone(Okafor?) but if he's the price we have to pay to improve, then it is what it is.

CP3Heliflopter
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Crawford as a playmaker? We have CP3, Collison, BG, Redick for that. Crawford has tunnel vision. Occasionally he makes a good play but most of the time he is looking for his own shot. We do not have a need his playmaking.

Now who is realistic? I don't know yet at this point which is why I say IF an opportunity arises. Someone like Elton Brand assuming he is healthy would be good. He was great for the Mavs last year.

If there is no such opportunity obviously we won't trade Crawford which is fine. I just hope we can pick up someone better than Mullens + Hollins down the line....

ClipsGForce
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If opportunity rises and a guy like Elton Brand is available, then sure. But as of now, I just do not want to settle for a mediocre third big and lose a guy who can create instant offense.

tense2
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That's what people who would trade Jamal want to do, when and IF a player of that stature becomes available down the line (after Dec 15th and the trade deadline). if not, than no trade and we're stuck with what we got.

ClipperB23
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settle down everyone, here are some funny stats for the Grizzlies and Bulls after 3 games as well..

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... mpressive/

ClipperPostman
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Repped High Quality Post

The thing that makes this argument so ridiculous is that

anyone who believes poor defense will be solved by

a backup big who gets 20mpg can't possibly know a thing about basketball.

Last time I checked starters average 36-40mpg so just by common

sense if you are dead last in defense, you would have to fix it in the

starting unit.

Elton Brand? Anyone who mentions that mans name can not

have been a clipper fan for more than 3 years.

I don't give a damn if he could get Elton Brand for free, I never

want to see that scum in a clipper jersey again. And any REAL clipper

fan knows exactly what I'm talking about.

ClipperB23
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repped for truth

ClipsGForce
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Thank you! I still despise Elton Brand for his lying ways to Philly. I guess it didn't work for him after all. Go Clips!

CapsNClips
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Thank you,

If a backup big could take a team from last place defensively to top 5 single handedly, he'd be the greatest player in NBA history.

And if Elton Brand ever steps foot in Staples Center wearing a Clippers jersey again I will throw up, then most likely drown in my own throw up because I would've lost my will to live. F*ck Brand!

DocHollywood
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Nobody thinks our 3rd big will completely solve our defensive problems! But it sure will help a TON! Have you happened to notice what a defensive liability Mullens and Hollins really are? They both have NEGATIVE PERs! They either foul or get blown by EVERY TIME!!!! I saw us nearly blow a 13 point lead in the span of three minutes thanks to those clowns. You do agree that we need a quality big man right? Otherwise, who do you think should start if and when DJ or BG misses games?

tense2
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True, righting the defensive ship will be mostly on the starting unit who play a majority of the minutes, but sticking your head in the sand when it comes to a real NEED doesn't help much either.

ClipperPostman
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The funny thing doc is I agree with you 100%. But I don't agree

that you give up the runnerup to sixth man of the year

and an offensive powerhouse for anything that's out there now.

There just aren't any good BIGS out there, especially sitting

on someones bench. I'd rather see us sign a euro player honestly.

CapsNClips
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Let's just wait for Emeka to get bought out, no need to get rid of our 3rd best scorer.

DocHollywood
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I don't WANT to trade Jamal, but he is the one player we have who is good enough and valuable enough to net us a 3rd big. Otherwise, if we go cheaper, it's probably gonna be Mullens2.0. Big men command a higher price then guards because there are less of them around with any skills.

CP3Heliflopter
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No one even suggested this. If it was even a decent improvement like average defensively to top 10 it would be worth it. I know most of you guys hate Brand for good reason but he really is just the type of player we need in terms of skillset. He is more of an example of the type of player we want in a backup big skillset wise rather than a realistic option.

If we can pickup Okafor that would be ideal but I don't think it is likely.

tense2
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We maybe waiting for Godot, lol. Don't even know IF Emeka will be able to play this season. Maybe something else comes along later in the year. though.

tense2
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Yep, like I said earlier, Jamal is the only real trade piece we have in terms of talent and contract size to attract a productive big IF one becomes available....and that's a big IF.

CapsNClips
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^ Bench scorers are more important than bench defenders, especially when our front court starters are likely to play 38-40min a night. What teams in the west have good enough back up bigs that us getting a defender for them is crucial? I can only think of Jermaine O'Neal as a player who could be a thorn in our sides, but he may very well be their starter if Bogut has one of his annual injuries.

If we lose Jamal, we lose 15ppg. We can probably make up like 7ppg from Willie. That's 8ppg worse and I doubt having a good back up defender would contribute as much as Jamal.

CP3Heliflopter
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Our front court starters shouldn't be playing 38-40 mpg and they are only doing so because our backup bigs are beyond horrendous. I don't understand this weird notion that 15 ppg suddenly disappears when we lose a player. Willie can easily give us 8 ppg if not more. We have plenty of players that can score efficiently that could use more shots. Crawford is more of a luxury than a need.

The thing is Hollins can't play defense without picking fouls and Mullens is **** on both ends of the floor. Even a decent defender is a huge upgrade over them. If we play BG and DJ 38-40 mpg good luck when they inevitably get injured.... Even if they play 38 mpg there is 10 minutes where we have scrubs like Mullens blowing 10 point leads.

Again I am not saying we should trade Crawford for anything less than an MLE quality player. People need to get it in their heads that bench big does not = scrub and it does not mean that they play under 20 mpg. There isn't much of a guarantee that such a big would even be available. I am just saying if there is an Okafor quality big available then we should go for it.

seanrooks
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People are saying a 3rd big won't make a difference defensively. Along those same lines, why should a 3rd guard(Crawford) be able to make a difference offensively? Isn't it the same thing?

CapsNClips
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I think the real solution to our front court depth issues can be easily covered up by using the Thunders strategy of never having both KD and Russ on the bench at the same time. We can do the same thing with Blake and DJ.

That way we will always have atleast one quality big who can defend at all times. Back up bigs are as fluky as they come, they aren't garunteed to get the job done. Remember Odom, Kenyon, Turiaf and Amundson were supposed to be great pick ups for us? Jamal has been consistently good since he's gotten here and isn't showing any signs of slowing down.

I would never bet on a back up big. Especially when what I'm betting is a boarder line all-star.

CapsNClips
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It's the same thing if you want to stop an opposing teams back up bigs who can't really score anyways, more than have a scorer who can't be stopped by opposing back up guards and can easily be inserted into the starting lineup and still score on the best defending starting wing players in the league.

So yeah, it's pretty much the same.

In the playoffs a back up isn't going to stop a top tier big like Dwight, Gasol, Randolph, Duncan, Lee....etc no matter how much you wish it to be true. Jamal is still going to score against those players teams. There's a reason you never see a defensive big man get 6MOY.

CapsNClips
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We have Clipper fans saying how much we need a back up big and rightfully so, but I bet you every playoff bound teams fan base in the West are mentioning how they are going to need a back up defending SG just for Jamal.

Jamal is a killer and is proving he can run in Doc's system, why would we give up one of our niches just so we can be more like other teams? That's not how you win rings.

seanrooks
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It's weird that people are disregarding our backup bigs so much. It's not like we're asking for Dwight on the bench. We just want someone who's not awful. And the guys we have now are awful. Last year's Clippers team showed how important a bench can be. No need to disregard ours now.

And speaking of the playoffs, do you remember the last 2 years? 2012, DJ sucked, Griffin got banged up, and KMart and Reggie saved the day. When playing a team like Memphis with guys like Gasol and Randolph pounding you inside, you're going to run into foul trouble/injuries/matchup problems. Griffin and Jordan ran into all of those things, and we were lucky Reggie and KMart stepped up. Also, while we're talking about the Grizzlies--they have Marc Gasol, an All Star and last year's DPOY, and they have Randolph, another former All Star. They are a great rebounding team and are one of the best defensive teams as well. And guess what? This summer they went out and got a former starting center(Kosta Koufos, a solid player) to backup Gasol. Also, they have Ed Davis, another nice young player. (Aside: maybe they'd be willing to part with one of their bench bigs to get some much needed outside shooting in Crawford?)

Last year, when we faced Memphis, Gasol abused Jordan and Griffin was injured. Odom was pretty blah and the team struggled. And let me tell you, Odom is a LOT better than Mullens and Hollins.

If you've been watching the season so far you'd know how badly we need a backup big. Even if they stay healthy all year, Jordan and Griffin cannot play 40 minutes a night. It's unsustainable. Mullens and/or Hollins are in the game for 5 minutes and the defense becomes an absolute sieve, and neither guy could grab a rebound if their lives depended on it. You can see how difficult it is for Doc to keep Jordan on the bench for even 8 minutes a night. This is not a recipe for long term success.

Regarding Crawford, I love the offense he brings. But with him, we're already one of the best offenses in the league. If he missed the next game, sure, we'd miss his offense. But you'd still have Paul and Redick starting, you'd still have Collison, and Willie proved last year he can play solid minutes on a good team. Add in Reggie Bullock's potential and I think the backcourt could survive without Jamal. Yeah, maybe we'd drop some, but it wouldn't be so drastic. If we drop from 1st to 8th in offense because of Jamal(and it probably wouldn't even be that steep) our offense would still be plenty good enough. And that drop would be totally worth it to get a solid backup big who could play both the 4 and 5 next to Griffin and Jordan for 20-25 minutes a night, or fill in and keep the team afloat should one of them get hurt.

Ideally, you keep Crawford and get a guy like Okafor when he's bought out. But if you have to make a move, and Jamal's the guy who has to go, then you make it. Obviously you don't trade Jamal for the sake of trading him, but if you get back a good enough player to fill that 3rd big void you do it.

Maybe Cleveland makes Varejao available. Or maybe the Bucks realize they have a million bigs and make one of them available--Sanders is probably not available, but Zaza Pachulia, John Henson and Ekpe Udo are all good players and big upgrades to Mullens/Hollins. The 76ers are tanking, who knows how available Spencer Hawes may be. Maybe the Raptors make Amir Johnson available.

Don't forget, more than two players can be involved in a trade. No idea how plausible this is, but who says no to a Jamal for Mozgov/Foye trade? We get back a little of Jamal's firepower and a solid backup big. Just saying, there are plenty of possibilities where giving up Jamal will be worth it.

CapsNClips
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Seanrooks,

Beautifully said, but you haven't changed my mind one iota.

If we are getting a big for the playoffs in case DJ or Blake get injured, then no matter how good that player is, we aren't winning a single series with how deep the West is with BG or DJ on the sidelines. Reggie and Kenyon were GREAT for us in the first Memphis series, mainly because DJ was by far the sh*ttiest big man in the league. DJ is now a defensive juggernaut (IMO) and would eat up those players minutes if they were still on the team. When I think of why we lost last year, I think of not having a half court set to rely on. We did pretty well at boxing out and rebounding for the most part and that's with DJ barely playing. Jamal WILL be more effective with a consistent offense in the playoffs this year.

Of course the Clippers would have to ponder the idea of trading Jamal if Verajao was in play, but the Cavs wouldn't, even if we threw in another player.

P.S. If Philly is tanking, they are awful at it.

seanrooks
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I just don't understand why it's important to have 2 or 3 good backup guards, but having 0 good backup bigs is not a problem. Losing Jamal would obviously leave a hole, but as of now we're well equipped to deal with losing him.

CapsNClips
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I'm not sure, ask Miami

seanrooks
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Also, let's not overrate Jamal here. He's a great scorer, but he probably gives up just as much on defense. There's a reason a guy with offensive ability has never been a successful starting player.

As of now, Jordan and Griffin are playing a ton of minutes(Griffin at 39, DJ at 36), with Doc holding his breath every time they have to sit and Hollins and Mullens have to play. They could use a backup, especially if one of them gets hurt.

In the backcourt, you have the opposite problem. You have players who could realistically be playing more minutes, but are being limited due to the amount of depth we have. Collison is only playing 12 minutes. Crawford himself is only playing 24 a night. Redick is the guard with the most minutes outside of Paul, and he's playing 30. Willie Green, who was actually very good last year when he played(43% 3FG, 14 points per36) isn't getting off the bench. So what does this mean? It means you turn your extra depth in the backcourt into needed frontcourt depth, and based on his contract and his fit on the team(both on offense and defense) Jamal seems to be the guy. If we trade Jamal for a solid big who can play 25 minutes a night, let Griffin and Jordan rest, fill in when one of them gets hurt, and keep Hollins and Mullens on the bench, isn't it worth it? If that happens, and we have to have Willie Green play 15 minutes a night, isn't that better than Hollins/Mullens playing 15 minutes a night?

seanrooks
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Um, Miami's frontcourt includes Bosh(an underrated defensive player), LeBron(is basically a 4, can defend 1-5 well) Chris Anderson, and Udonis Haslem. Hell, even Joel Anthony is better than Mullens and Hollins. Outside of DeAndre, I think the rest of our bigs are worse defensively than the other 5 guys I mentioned there.

Also, Miami STILL went out and got Oden this summer to try and turn him into a useful player against teams like Indiana that have a lot of size. Sure, he might not ever be a good player again, but Miami is putting in a LOT of time and effort into trying here. They know how important it is to have size, and the Clippers are lacking in that department.

CapsNClips
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Bosh and LBJ are obviously starters, we are talking bench. Anderson was pretty good, Udonis was not, he was just basically an overplayed big body.

I like our combo of Jamison, Mullens and Hollins more than Anderson and Haslem. Think about the players that were memorable for the Heats 2 championships besides the Big 3. Allen, Miller, Cole and Battier were the players that had big impacts and all played mainly at the guard positions except Battier who played a lot of SF the 1st year.

Now Miami has both good bigs and good guards coming off the bench. We can't do that right now, nobody can because we aren't as big of a destination as Miami right now.

what_up_clipnation83
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No need for trade...just wait for waived BIGS and veteran BIGS to be bought out and want to sign with a contending team.

seanrooks
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Yes, you think of the guards as having the bigger impact because they're the ones who are scoring. Chris Andersen isn't there for offense, he's there for defense. And you need both. In simple terms, you need guys who can score, and you need guys who can stop the other team from scoring. We're very good at the scoring part, and less good at the stopping part.

Talking bench, yes, I'd rather have Chris Andersen and Haslem any day over Mullens and Jamison. I find it very hard to believe that anyone would disagree with that.

How can you like Jamison, Mullens and Hollins better? Have you watched them play????? They are all terrible, terrible players. Andersen played great for a championship team last year. He provided energy and offensive rebounding on offense and was a great rim protector on the other side. Ryan Hollins fouls a lot and Byron Mullens bricks a 3 a minute. Jamison can't defend anyone. None of the 3 can grab a rebound or play a lick of defense. The Heat's backup bigs are much better than ours.

cleepers
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In the playoffs, any decent coach is putting his best 8 - or at max, 9 - guys out there. Our best 8 guys are the starting 5 plus Crawford, Collison, and Barnes. That's the 1, 2, and 3 spots nicely covered, but we have zero coverage for the 4 and 5 among our top 3 bench players.

Either Collison or Crawford can extend CP3's minutes on the court by taking over some ball handling duties, but only Jamal's contract could net us an MLE-level big. I want to keep Crawford as much as anyone, but as has been stated on this thread, he is more luxury than necessity. If we had borderline starters backing up DJ and Blake, but only Willie and Wayns as reserve guards, I'd feel the same way.

We need to be more balanced by April. Maybe we can pick up a ring-chaser for vet minimum by then, but if not, trading Jamal will be the only way to acquire that balance.

seanrooks
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^yay someone who agrees with me!

Agent0
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1) Crawford doesn't HAVE to be traded to get a better big than Mu/Ho, though he maybe will have to be if you want a good big, not just servicable

2) If Crawford is traded, it shouldn't be just for any serviceable player, it should be a good trade

3) Crawford can be traded in a move that brings a big man that is not only better than Mu/Ho on defense, but is also capable of producing offense for the team

4) D-League!!

5) A serviceable big actually could be decent enough to serve the teams

purposes, there are about 3-4 available at below Jamal price that could be acquired.

CapsNClips
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^ It's not about who's better to me, it's about which group of guys makes our team better. Mullens and Jamison are floor spacers which drags defenders out of the paint for Blake to attack freely. Anderson is definitely the best out of the bunch listed, but he himself is overrated defensively because he can block a shot. He almost amounted to nothing against Hibbert and Duncan in the post season. The best defender against Duncan in the Finals was Poppavich. Uh oh I said it. The sentence nobody dares to utter.

CapsNClips
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And how did Miami get Anderson? Did they trade their best bench player? Or did they wait till mid season to sign him as a FA?

We can get a decent defender for the vet minimum. We have an open roster spot, but we need to give Doc a chance to let this team gel. It's been 3 games and we are acting as if the post season starts tomorrow.

seanrooks
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Mullens is one of the worst floor spacers. He has not shown at any point that he is a good shooter. Last year, he shot .317 on 3s, and that was a career high. He also shot .385 overall from the floor and .646 from the line. Those are horrid numbers, and they're about on pace for his overall career numbers. So far this season, he is 1/8 from the floor, including 1/7 from 3 and 0/2 from the free throw line. Small sample size, sure, but nothing in his career has shown he is any better. Just because someone likes to shoot 3s doesn't make them a shooter.

Even if he were to somehow become a really good shooter and an efficient offensive player, his defense and rebounding are so terrible that it wouldn't be enough. I could care less about having a center who is a floor spacer if he can't play defense. We are 10 times better with Jordan and Griffin on the floor and neither of them can shoot for crap. Bigs need to be able to rebound and defend. Any shooting they provide after that is a bonus.

And if you think Andersen struggled against Duncan, wait til you see what Mullens does against him.

seanrooks
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I've said this multiple times. Multiple times. If there is a way to get a solid big(such as Okafor) without trading Crawford, you obviously do it. You don't just trade a good player like Crawford for the hell of it. All I'm saying is, that if and when the time comes where a good player becomes available, and our only chance of getting that player is to part with Crawford, you do it. I'm not advocating for just dumping Crawford.

And yes, it's been 3 games. There are obviously things to be worked out, and the team needs to gel. But some things are beyond Doc's control. Ryan Hollins has been a bad player his whole career(including a few season under Doc in Boston). He can't simply be fixed. Mullens may have a little more hope since he's younger but again, there's only so much you can do with such a bad basketball player. I see the team improving in many ways, but I don't see any way our backup bigs improve enough to be a real contender until we add another big to the bench.

CapsNClips
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Being a floor spacer doesn't mean you have to be a great shooter. Defenders have to guard a player on the perimeter no matter what, even if he shoots 10% from 3 point range.

And just so we are clear, there's nobody in the league NOW or EVER that has been able to guard Duncan. So why even bother trying to find a back up big that can defend him?

Agent0
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Yea, Mullen's isn't a floor spacer, no one guards him out at three or long mid-range as opposed to sagging down on Blake and he hardly ever makes anything. Then he hurts you more on defense than his non-existent floor spacing could theoretically have helped on offense. He's struggling to be useful.

Following from #5, looking at serviceable guys:

eg:

Gustavo Ayon (ATL, $1.5M), shoulder, out 4-8 weeks from October 8th

Greg Smith (HOU, $884K)

Greg Stiemsma (NOP - $2.7M)

You can possibly get those guys without moving Crawford, that they are solid enough.

If Jamal is traded, I would aim high for:

Amir Johnson ($6.5M, 26 years old)

Last 3 seasons per 36:

12.3 pts, 9.3 rebs, 1.8 ast, 1 stl, 1.7 blocks, 1.8 tov, 56% FG, 74.2% FT. .599 TS%

-from California, from LA to be specific Wink (means more in free agency)

-great on pick and roll

-good defense

-positive player on the court

-can play PF and C

-continually improving as a shooter

Through 3 games this season, Amir is hitting 37.5% 3PT on 2.7 3PTA/G, small sample size, but at the least it suggests that his range shooting might still be improving. 36-37% from 16-23 the past two seasons on >200 attempts (better than Mullens 31.5%). He just keeps looking like the perfect double position (PF/C) backup big man for the Clippers. How can we get him from the Raptors!

Go for the best best first if you're going to try anything. So maybe wait and see how the Raptors are faring then try to figure something out. He has a team option next season, so it isn't like they have to dump him, but Ujiri has said that all but Val are a open in trade talks.

If the team is obsessed with getting a GOOD floor spacer that can also play in normal games, then monitor:

Channing Frye (PHO, $6.4M), see where he is by December and see what the options are cause Phoenix is certainly not trying to win

Andre Nicholson (ORL, $1.5M), but good luck making this happen

Spencer Hawes (PHI, $6.5M), he's Philly's only active C, he's playing pretty well and it isn't like he's old, and they have perimeter guys, so again, good luck

CapsNClips
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Posts: 4198

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votes: 50

Raptors have recently stated that everybody not name Valanciunis is available. We could get Amir for Jamal, but you guys need to understand Doc isn't going to trade Jamal. Book it.

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