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Agent0
Post ID: 412639by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 08:52 AM PST
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Really? You sure? Cause then the bench players would have to be ATROCIOUS on defense. That means they are so bad that they are basically tanking the defense even though they get to play with starters for some minutes, lol



                
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Agent0
Post ID: 412640by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 08:54 AM PST
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I think if there is a worse player than Hollins, it is Petro

Give the Hawks some peanuts for Ayon who is currently out with some shoulder issue and start there. He only makes $1.5M, they have Horford, Millsap and Brand. See if they want Willie or something (I know, weak).

That can be a starting point to hold the team over til they can determine if there's a higher level player available.

                
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botev1921
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412641by botev1921 » Nov 08, 2013 - 09:19 AM PST
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We have two significant problems at the moment - Dudley is useless at SF is one and we do not have even a single capable rebound-first big on the bench. Forget about shooting threes now - if we allow 105+ points a night and get dominated by the likes of Vucevic, we are not going anywhere. I anticipate a trade involving one of the guards landing us a center, who can rebound but do nothing else.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 412645by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 09:50 AM PST
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Andrew Han and DJ Foster said it last night. Yea dude the bench is that bad.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 412646by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 08, 2013 - 10:00 AM PST
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Not surprised. Our bench if the complete opposite of last season but our starters are much better.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412650by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 10:26 AM PST
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Yea I wouldn't give it time. I'd make a deal today for a great defensive big. Hell I'd love us to pry somebody like Brandon Bass away from a lotto team. He defends well and scores well as a backup big.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 412654by CapsNClips » Nov 08, 2013 - 12:03 PM PST
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I've always thought Brandon Bass would be a great pick 'n pop player with CP, but stupid butthole Stern doesn't seem to share the same dream as I.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412655by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 12:07 PM PST
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Lol, what? What does David Stern have to do with anything?

Bass is nice, but he isn't known for his defense and rebounding (career 7.6 rebs/36), more for his offense and mid-range shooting, he is a PF, not a PF/C, and he makes $6.45M.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 412657by CapsNClips » Nov 08, 2013 - 12:10 PM PST
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Bass is on the Celtics.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412659by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 12:28 PM PST
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Oh, you mean because we can't trade with Boston, I was wondering what Stern had to do with Bass not being a Clipper. It's okay. At $6.5M I think there are better options than Bass

                
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Clippersfan86
Post ID: 412661by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 12:42 PM PST
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  1. League said we are banned from trading with Celtics until next summer.

  2. Bass is THE best defender in the league so far according to Synergy. Small sample, not accurate but he definitely is an above average post defender. Rebounding isn't the biggest issue for us right now off the bench, consistent shooting+defense is and he fills both needs for a backup big. 6.5 mill is worth it.. throw in Green+Mullens+future pick.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412662by CapsNClips » Nov 08, 2013 - 01:07 PM PST
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Earl Clark has been pretty miserable for Cleveland so far. Wonder if they'd do a trade for him now. Not the ideal defender, but a good rebounder, scorer and can stretch the floor.

They already have Verajao, Bennett, Thompson and Bynum. Clarke can play 3 positions and would be a steal IMO if we only had to give up Mullens and Willie.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412663by tense2 » Nov 08, 2013 - 01:13 PM PST
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Much rather have a true back up center. And as for what MIGHT be available now, I think Hawes would fit our needs better. Signed though this year for 6.5 mil.

It's still probably best to wait till after December 15th or even later when much more choices will be on the shelf to pick from.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412664by namzug » Nov 08, 2013 - 01:31 PM PST
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I know there will be some guys that are playing overseas that will become available after Feb I think. Shavlick played with Boston when Doc was there which I think could be a good option. I think anyone who was posting during the offseason knows I'd love to have Ivan Johnson, but question how much chemistry could be built with him and this team. Shavlick seems to be a better fit just due to the fact that he's worked with Doc before.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412665by CapsNClips » Nov 08, 2013 - 01:40 PM PST
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I think for the time being, we need to just utilize Mullens better. Obviously he can't shoot from deep, but his best plays as a Clipper so far have been down low finishing at the rim. Post him down low and if he can't post up then he can extend to 15 feet which has to be a better percentage shot than his 3 ball, right? Doc has to find a way to change up our play style with him and Hollins.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412666by tense2 » Nov 08, 2013 - 01:48 PM PST
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That would be great if he and Hollins could only get more rebounds then fouls. Smile

I agree though with what we got right now, a change would be better....I hope.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/23 ... an-hollins

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412676by tense2 » Nov 08, 2013 - 03:38 PM PST
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we are dead last off the bench with 8.8 rebounds in 14.1 minutes. it's a problem, maybe not be the biggest problem, but it's a biggy.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412678by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 04:24 PM PST
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Tense it's absolutely a problem but better defense usually correlates with better rebounding. I think if we get better post defenders, naturally rebounding will go up.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412681by tense2 » Nov 08, 2013 - 04:42 PM PST
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Yep, we had better rebounders and defensive players last year in the 2nd unit.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412684by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 05:15 PM PST
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Absolutely. I'm still banging my head against a wall trying to figure out why the fu** we thought it would be smart to trade Evans. He's not a "great" defender by any means but he's a "solid" defender who dominates the glass, gives hard fouls and makes the big plays. There was literally ZERO reason to sign him for 3 years at 1.35 mill to trade him. Hell of a bargain, he should still be in a Clippers uniform. If he was our 3rd big, FT problems and all.. we would be fine right now.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412687by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 05:29 PM PST
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DeJaun Blair wouldn't be bad either. Maybe when Brandan Wright returns and Dallas' frontcourt is crowded they will be willing to move his $900K contract....oh wait, he makes $900K, really no need.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 412688by Agent0 » Nov 08, 2013 - 05:44 PM PST
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Yea, got that one after, lol

Like you said, sample size is obviously an issue since at this point who you played so far (Toronto, Milwaukee, Detroit, Memphis, Utah) can have a big impact. Yea, based on the opponents, it could make sense, Favors has been bad in general and was 4/10 FG, 3 tov vs Boston and Ilyasova was 2/7 vs Boston, so with only 5 games, he's certainly done a good job.

Bass is a decent enough defender though, but in his two seasons with the Celtics I don't remember hearing much about any defensive prowess. He's a nice player, but maybe not $6.5M nice for the Clippers.

If he was more capable of being a PF/C and rim protector / rebounder, it would probably make a lot of sense.

Like tense mentioned, at $6.5M one might as well hold out for a Spencer Hawes and I'll add an Amir Johnson before going to a guy like Bass who isn't bad by any means.

                
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itsLuigi
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412695by itsLuigi » Nov 08, 2013 - 06:40 PM PST
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can we trade dudley?

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412697by DocHollywood » Nov 08, 2013 - 06:44 PM PST
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Dudley is great value and would be wise to hang onto. Crawford, Green, Mullens, Hollins, and Jamison are the guys I see as tradeable in the right situation.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412701by tense2 » Nov 08, 2013 - 08:17 PM PST
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Dudley is not our problem, he'll be fine...real fine.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 412705by jarca » Nov 08, 2013 - 08:44 PM PST
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Because the front office at the time wanted a stretch 4. When Evans left so did our defense

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412709by Clippersfan86 » Nov 08, 2013 - 10:54 PM PST
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Amir is worshipped in Toronto by the organization and fans. He's going to get a contract extension.

                
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clipperboy24
Post ID: 412712by clipperboy24 » Nov 08, 2013 - 11:38 PM PST
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At current production Jared Dudley is anything but a great value

                
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clipperboy24
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412713by clipperboy24 » Nov 08, 2013 - 11:42 PM PST
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And I also think he is incredibly out of shape. As tense said he has been like that his whole career which IMO should draw huge red flags. If he was serious about defense, rebounding and overall play. He probably needs to lose 10 lbs, it's pretty embarassing

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412716by DocHollywood » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:18 AM PST
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Dudley has been in the league eight years and he's never been fast or particularly athletic. That's exactly why it shouldn't raise any red flags. He's also been dealing with knee issues since training camp which haven't helped his fitness/footspeed. He's a proven ELITE shooter from ALL DISTANCES who plays solid defense and has a high BBIQ. His skillset normally costs more than 4mil a year actually. Did you see how well he guarded Lebron yesterday even with a bad knee? I was a vocal critic when I first saw him play, but I am withholding my final judgement until he's healthy and our team has at least 15 or 20 games together. If he's still underachieving, I'll probably push for trading him over Jamal if we still haven't solidified our frontcourt rotation.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 412717by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:50 AM PST
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Let's be honest, the defense wasn't good that year either, lol

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 412718by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:50 AM PST
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Tense your link doesn't exist. What were you doing in 1969. If you remember1969 then you weren't there

Anyway this is a tempest in a teapot. Making tea out of pot doesn't work. I tried - 1969 As far as trades we are limited by cap space. We can't trade Jamal because he's the only bench offense we have and the only guy who can get his own shot except CP. We have only two SF's. Is Bullock a SF? Who cares because as a rookie at PO's he'll get pine splinters in his butt.

Our tradable asset is Willie but since Wayans is down we have 4 guards and Jamal can't play D. Mullens will be OK. Dudley won't and Hollins won't. We don't have any expensive expiring contracts to trade. Willie is the only good one. Jamison? Hollins?. Maybe we can trade Mullens. As it turns out Hollins was a mistake and maybe so was Jamison. Unfortunately what bigs were available? What I would give for Brand or even Kaman.

Barkley said it so well. what happens when they shut CP down? We would have beaten Miami otherwise.

What will save us? Pick up Okafor or maybe Diop if Okafort looks stinky. Maybe we can dump Dudley. BLAKE HAS TO CARRY THIS TEAM ON HIS SHOULDERS or we're screwed.

We got problems

                
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Clipswhit
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412722by Clipswhit » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:33 AM PST
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^ 10 pounds is generous. I venture a guess closer to 25 pounds to be an elite defender. Maybe put back 10-15 of muscle. Man when people say he isn't athletic, they never mentioned that it's because he's in bad shape..

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412725by ClipperKyle32 » Nov 09, 2013 - 08:17 AM PST
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To all the trade talk: Here is piece of an article by Steve Perrin

With $2.5M of wiggle room currently, the Clippers could still sign Amundson (vet min $884,293 cap hit), then waive Wayns for his roster spot and have enough room under the hard cap to sign another vet for the min (say Jason Collins for the sake of argument). But they'd be knocking right up against the hard cap at that point.

But consider this scenario. The Clippers have a $2.6M trade exception from the Eric Bledsoe trade, and are currently $2.5M below the hard cap. As it stands now, the Clippers could acquire any player in the league up to about $2.5M in salary -- but every dime they spend on Davies or Amundson comes out of that potential trade. Who could they get for $2.5M? I dunno. Maybe Brendan Haywood after he recovers from foot surgery, who knows? The point is, the Clippers have limited options, which became more limited with the Wayns situation, and become ever more limited with each dollar they commit.

There are of course limited opportunities for freeing things up as we move into the season. If for instance the Clippers are really feeling hamstrung by the Wayns salary, they can always work a mutually beneficial trade with the Sixers (or any other team under the salary cap) to take him off their hands. The Clippers trade Wayns and say a million dollars, saving about a million dollars in the process when you consider the tax bill, the receiving team waives Wayns and pockets $200K in profit, and the Clippers get a little more wiggle room. Similarly nefarious trades could be worked for Willie Green or anyone else on the roster, but now we're getting into players that actually have value, value commensurate with their salaries.

Then of course there are more legitimate trades that could be undertaken. Being between the tax threshold and the hard cap, the Clippers could look to make a trade to cut salary and avoid paying the tax -- or they could take on limited additional salary (though not more than that $2.5M) to improve the roster. Either is certainly a possibility as the season gets underway, especially if the team decides they really need another quality big and are willing to part with a wing (say Jamal Crawford or Jared Dudley) to make it happen. But that's a discussion for another time.

The salary cap and the CBA is a huge and complex subject. There are many, many more implications here that we could look at, but I'll save some of that for another post. For now, realize that the Clippers are between a rock (the luxury tax threshold) and a hard (cap) place. As much as they might want to keep an additional big heading into the season, doing so exacerbates a difficult situation and I don't think they'll do that. It's not as if Davies or Amundson has really done that much in the pre-season. It's my guess that the Clippers will enter the season with 14 on the roster, evaluate their options with Wayns after his surgery (specifically, keep him or trade him in a salary dump) and look for chances to improve the roster on the cheap during the season.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412726by ClipperKyle32 » Nov 09, 2013 - 08:21 AM PST
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About Jared, I do not believe he is in shape! Check out this tweet

@JaredDudley619: RT @JonesOnTheNBA: Thought you were gonna go for the dunk when 'Dre goaltended your shot early in the game( lol no legs right now)

"No Legs" it was the second game of the season! He is clearly out of shape or injured!!!!

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 412727by Silasie » Nov 09, 2013 - 08:41 AM PST
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I am not sure but he looks like he could loose a few pounds.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412730by ClipperKyle32 » Nov 09, 2013 - 09:11 AM PST
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Right Now... I would love to have Caron over Jared!

Link

Ahhhh the memories

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 412735by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 09, 2013 - 10:21 AM PST
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Look at the score. Yikes.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412737by Silasie » Nov 09, 2013 - 10:49 AM PST
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I still think this thread is mis-named. Every time I see it I think "what production". Can't it be renamed Bench Non Production Thread or Lack of Bench Production thread

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412742by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 11:07 AM PST
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Jared is always chubby, he's never been a ripped guy, but knee soreness would certainly limit you like that

http://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/nba-diet

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412745by tense2 » Nov 09, 2013 - 11:58 AM PST
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Yep, not out of shape, but injured.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412746by tense2 » Nov 09, 2013 - 12:06 PM PST
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With that lovely .368 FG % he's got going and the 8 mil he's being paid, I'm sure the Bucks would be willing to give him back. wink

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412747by Silasie » Nov 09, 2013 - 12:17 PM PST
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Thanks for the name change, that's made me smile.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412772by Voyeur » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:13 PM PST
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So it sounds like Barnes wants to play today, but Doc has ruled it out. Darn! It would be good to see Matt back.

                
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DocHollywood
Post ID: 412781by DocHollywood » Nov 09, 2013 - 03:00 PM PST
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25 pounds???!!! LOL. "Put back 10-15 lbs of muscle" Do you have any idea how long it takes to pack on even five pounds of pure muscle? This is Jared Dudley. He was a fat kid. He mentions it in interviews. He has never been ripped or muscular in his life but he runs and works out religiously- this isn't a Lamar Odom situation at all so give him a break until his knee heals up.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 412782by Silasie » Nov 09, 2013 - 03:04 PM PST
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Better that he gets properly healthy, coming back too soon can mean that you miss more games in the end. It is a long season after all.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 412837by ClipperKyle32 » Nov 09, 2013 - 07:49 PM PST
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If we had last years bench with this years starters! I LIKE THE CHAMPIONSHIP CHANCES ALOT MORE

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 413022by ClipperKyle32 » Nov 09, 2013 - 09:39 PM PST
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Bench barely played at all well I take that back Byron barely played at all lol because he is the Bench! Oh how I would love to have Andrea Bargnani right now instead of Byron Mullens

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 413030by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 09:43 PM PST
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Well Bargnani is better than him, lol, but you're also paying like $10 million more, so....

                
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clippermitch
Post Subject: RE: Lack Of Bench Production Thread Post ID: 413181by clippermitch » Nov 10, 2013 - 12:23 PM PST
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Looks like we may be signing the Rhino back. Craig Smith tweeted something about happiness being back with the Clippers where he belongs.

                
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