Clippers Vs. Heat Official Game Thread 2013-11-07 (P. 9)

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DocHollywood
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He's watched them both in practice a ton. He knows Jared is the better player right now and he's playing to win.

clipperboy24
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Doesn't get much worse than Jared Dudley right now. Don't really buy it. Also the only way to really test a rookie is to play them in a game. The little minutes he has played he has rebounded and played good defense

CapsNClips
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Ryan Gomes!

AirGriffin
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So many imcompetent posts.

How the hell would last years team look any better?

Our weaknesses showed BAD in the playoffs for the last 2 years. We had no half court offense and now we do.

We have much better spacing, ball movement, etc

DJ playing much better and we got rid of our 2 old starters in Billups and Butler. We now have new members and a new system to learn what the f**k do you guys expect? We have no real back up bigs, Matt Barnes didn't play tonight, and we did go against the defending champs and put up a great fight at THEIR home. This is the same team that took out the Spurs last year even when they played amazing. And Dwade had a great game like why the hell is there so much negativity on this forum? It doesn't even look like a Clippers forum....

Voyeur
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Finally got a chance to see the game.

Blake played well. I agree that there were definitely moments BG should just take the shot instead of passing. Although I also like the ball movement. And, yes, BG played good D on LeBron.

Poor Redick, who's played some nice D against some great SG's so far, had a tough night against Wade. Maybe it's all the talk about Wade being in questionable health but he came out aggressive. Redick had no answer. Still somehow JJ was +6 tonight. I don't know how he does it but the team definitely plays better while he's out there. I DEFINITELY would like to see him show up more in the 4th quarter. I know he can do it.

Dudley: 1-5 with 1 rebound. SMH

Watching Willie on LeBron was difficult. Also I saw a lot of hesitation when shooters were open.

CP3 with 2 not so great games in a row. I love Paul, but when he turns the ball over, sometimes you wonder "what kind of pass was that?" When Paul's having a lackluster game, it's tough...especially this early in the season. I think our new guys are still trying to find their footing. But I think they will very soon.

I'm just not sure I'm as impressed with DJ as most. I want to be. I actually like the way his FT's look. I love his rebounding. I just don't feel like anyone's really scared of going into the paint on him. And I'm starting to wonder if Doc's first instinct (and Vinny's) was right. Maybe an elbow shooting center with Blake inside is still a better option. Hope I'm wrong.

Defensively we were better. We're gonna get there. I think some of these analysts think we should have figured it all out in preseason. But we need all our guys healthy (Collison and Barnes) and we need to keep playing Doc's system against real competition. It seems like we started with a tough schedule. So hopefully our record is respectable by the time we truly figure it out.

No moral victories and all that but I thought we played with some spark after last night's loss. We just have to keep plugging away.

Voyeur
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Yeah we'll definitely be better than last year. Our offense is SO much better with spacing and movement and it's only going to get better. Trust me as someone who lives near Orlando, JJ is going to be more consistent the more games he plays and finally settles in. Doc wanted him for a reason. He'll start nailing those open looks much more consistently and that's going to be important in running the offense. And I have no doubt we'll get sharper and sharper on D.

DocHollywood
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The minutes I saw he looked scared and lost tbh. No surprise of course, but he's not there yet. More time practicing with our guys will help to get him there.

tense2
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Oy vey...please.

AirGriffin
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Someone who gets it. Thank you!

Voyeur
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By the way, that foul on Redick against Wade's made basket was bullshit!

ClipperPostman
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You sound like me lol... I think it's the newer clipper "Fans" (Cough).

tense2
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Dudley fine will be fine offensively and defensively. He needs to pick up his rebounding and....shoot more.

Doc will test the rookie...in practice and blow outs, winning or losing.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... red-dudley

ClipperB23
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^ I agree, Dudley definitely needs to start shooting more and our bench really misses Barnes production. Everything else will fall into place I got faith in this team.

BACON
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Maybe Dudley is getting the Ryan Gomes syndrome? roll

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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Biggest plays of the game? After the Clippers got a stop on defense Dudley threw a pass in the stands. Immediately after that Collison fouled Lewis on a three pointer to make it 4 point play. As soon as that happened, I said to myself "That's going to come back to bite us in the ass." This is one case where I would've preferred to be wrong.

CapsNClips
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Dudley needs to stop trying to make plays beyond his means. Just shoot the damn ball, that's what you do.

I don't want to see him turn into Caron where he pump fakes an open 3, then dribbles into a contested 19 footer.

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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I agree. It seems like whenever Dudley pump fakes he'll eventually try to make a tough pass and mess it up.

toohipcliptoslip
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Barkley said it best. Remember he picked us for WCF. He now says we won't go anywhere. He has good points. We had our faults exposed.

According to Chuck the reason we lost was that they kept the ball out of CP's hands in the second half. They "cut off the head of the snake" He's right. We have two guys who can create. CP and Jamal.

Someone said BG should be our #1 guy and everything should go through him. They may be right. BG did a good job on LBJ but his agressiveness in the post was lacking according to the guys and I think they're right. There was one play where BG knocked LBJ backwards but then passed the ball. If he had a post move he could have scored.

He had a great game for your average great player but he could have had 30. No bad criticism but this has to happen. Expect to see CP doubled hard and trapped a lot until the problem is fixed

david
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The Heat really had a good defensive plan- stop Chris Paul with aggressive traps, and make other Clippers make plays. But the other Clippers simply couldn't make enough plays in the second half. Guys like Dudley tried to make plays but they're just not used to it, and turnovers resulted which really hurt. The offense also became a bit predictable with constant drive & kicks which were snuffed out by the Heat. CP tried to split the double team & force the issue later on, but just couldn't provide enough positives to help the team.

Good game by Blake Griffin though. He did seem a bit out of it after that intentional cheap shot by Mario Chalmers, but it was good to see him assert himself down the stretch with some nice plays. BTW I hope the league suspends Mario Chalmers for that punk foul. Can't believe the refs didn't even review that dirty play.

In the second half, defensively the Clippers were taken advantage of whenever they decided to double team around the perimeter. The result would be layup or a foul, or an and-1 play. I also don't understand why Doc Rivers didn't even try Reggie Bullock out there. Willie is a good player but he is simply not nearly big enough to guard Lebron James. Not surprisingly, Blake Griffin did the best job out there tonight checking LeBron. And D. Wade really abused Redick. JJ simply does not have enough length nor strength to challenge.

Very tough game vs the Rockets coming up- let's see if the guys can bounce back.

Clipperfn4lf
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Quit wearing the blue jerseys!! It's as simple as that.

toohipcliptoslip
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Believe it or not that type of blow can be lethal if you crush the larynx at least in us pencil necked geeks. Again Barkley made a good point. Our SF Dudley was a bit slow. Barnes should start. JJ is small so we need a tough SF.

Blake once had ten assists. He has to learn to make plays.He has to be the man and CP the general. They said this over and over about D12 and it's true about BG. He has to DEMAND the ball.Kenny Smith said that every great player is a greedy azzole not a sweetheart on the floor. BG's as strong as Lebron. His shooting and FT's are coming along but until he becomes a beast we'll have problems. He has the same quickness as LBJ and his ball handling skills are good. He has to learn to drive. If LBJ can so can he. BG is actually a better athlete. As I mentioned before, Blake getting 30 should be a frequent event. He should be able to take over a game. Will we say that about DeAndre Big Six Jordan one day? If his play improves as it has maybe.

The loss had nothing to do with them being together. We saw why they are champs. Again I'm not putting down his present performance but if he's to be one of the greatest PFs ever to play then it's time to start acting like it. Again not a put down

DocHollywood
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So many Homer refs tonight. That was a flagrant 2 by fuc*ing Chalmers.

DocHollywood
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Many here like myself have explained to you in great detail the far reaching benefits to acquiring an MLE level 3rd big. As you know, this would very likely REQUIRE that we trade Jamal. You persist in acting all smug like we all must WANT Jamal gone and you're so smart for wanting to keep him every time he makes a shot. You know like we all do that Jamal being traded means we would then have someone like Amir Johnson on our team. Scoring, defense, and rebounding is better than just scoring, especially when it keeps Byron Mullens off the floor.

Agent0
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Random stat, 4 Clippers are currently averaging 20+ Pts/36 and .600 TS%+

Jamal: 23.4 / .609

Paul: 22.6 / .612

Griffin: 20.7 / .613

Redick: 20.1 / .618

Other random stats:

Mullens is attempting 9.2 3PA/36 or also described as way too many threes while he's on the floor and shooting 20%.

Dudley isn't shooting enough at all, averaging 7.2 FGA/36

DJ's FG% is only 53.3% so far

Clippers are giving up 110.6 pts/100 possessions and are 29th in defensive rating. Go Portland who is 30th at 110.7 pts/100 possessions. Super close though.

Main culprits: giving up 54.1% eFG, second worst in the league and fouling a decent amount, 25th in the league in FTA/FG. The first is more important, but good defenses also try to not foul cause FT's are too efficient.

Voyeur
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I think Doc just mentioned that Dudley has a slight knee problem, which is why he was shuffled in and out.

I hear what folks are saying about Blake but I do like this trend of him scoring in the 4th. It's the most aggressive I've seen him in the 4th quarter in a while. I think this will hopefully give him more and more confidence to be a real presence in the 4th on the offensive end.

Doc and Paul said it best, he needed to get rid of the ball quickly. He was trapped too often and we looked like the team of last year. I disagree with TNT about the Clippers half court. Overall, our half court offence is way better. Anybody who doesn't see how our spacing and movement has changed apparently isn't looking closely enough. However, when Paul decides to hold on to the ball too long, it's a different story.

Sure, JJ is shorter than certain SG's out there. But Wade was on tonight. Played with a chip on his shoulder. It was going to be a tough night for JJ. He's defended admirably so far. As long as he continues to work hard he's not going to get torched like this often.

I hope we can win Saturday but asking us to beat a very good team in Houston after we just blew them out is going to be a tough task indeed.

sz123456
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Just saw the foul by Chalmers. Blake's pacifism used to be admirable, but he really needs to retaliate soon. Send the message in the regular season.

clipperboy24
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Couldn't disagree more. He grabbed boards and made a couple good shot attempts. Also he was always in an open spot on the perimeter but crawford never have up the ball to him

namzug
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I thought there was a few times that Blake asked for the ball and CP just ignored him. I think CP3 was having a bad night and was trying to fix it, but for being the best floor general in the game you should really take advantage of Blake vs. anybody on the heat (including LBJ and especially Battier).

Sometimes I get the feel that even though CP3 said the team will go as Blake goes, don't think he really means it. He seems to want to be the closer, and on the team I still think Blake will subside to Paul. Paul is obviously the alpha male on the team, maybe it's time that Blake starts stepping up in this category. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to be loud, but be assertive and ask for the ball.

I was harsh on Vinny when he was here, and most likely it wasn't all him. He had to keep CP3 happy, and maybe part of keeping him happy was not giving Blake or anyone else the ball in the 4th. I know I've heard a few others speak this before, and I would just ignore but did get that idea last night.

I have faith that Doc will fix these issues, and think that is the first thing he started on when got here. This might have also affected DJ last season where Paul took over as the defensive captain. DJ I don't think has an issue with being vocal like Blake.

Icecoldclipper
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As again the scoring is no where near strong enough to last without Crawford. If a big is brought in it has to be off spare parts.

CP3Heliflopter
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The starting line up has averaged an offensive rating of 116 and defensive rating of 98.6 but our team somehow has a horrendous defensive rating of 110. That is how bad our bench is defensively. Guess who is the worst defender of the bunch? Crawford. If we can get a decent defensive big with spare parts sure but its unlikely.

Voyeur
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Yeah it's a tough call. I say we keep Crawford but we are going to have to have either Blake or CP3 on the court at all times. Maybe JJ...one of those 3 at all times. They are easily our best players in the +/- column and have good Bball IQ. Not that that would necessarily make the defense better however having one of those guys with the bench might make them play better as a team overall.

tense2
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If you mean by that, he's playing hurt...then you are correct sir, lol:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-cli ... z2k4pEIOi0

Agent0
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Well that's definitely a good explanation of why he's been playing out of character

In terms of trading for a big man, obviously if Crawford is going out, the ideal is to get a big that can score AND defend/rebound.

DocHollywood
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I must not have noticed that. You're talking regular season right? I look forward to seeing him more once our veterans begin stretching leads and getting us some garbage time. I trust that Doc would have played Reggie yesterday with both Dudley and Barnes being hurt if he had thought that he was ready.

tense2
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Not sure who Caps is referring to, cause it sure can't be Reggie. Smile

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... ie-bullock

*edit. Clipperboy24 is who I'm referring to, not Caps.

TheDude
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I think we might be better off packaging Jamal with Dudley or Barnes (and 1st or Reggie) to try to get an elite wing. Seems like we have too many second fiddles on this team. Need another go to two-ways guy. No idea who that might be, maybe Deng.

Have a feeling our 3rd big is gonna fall in our laps, Okafor or somebody, by Feb. Guys come out of the woodwork after the first 30 games. Who knows, I doubt it, but maybe it'll be Lamar.

CapsNClips
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What? I never mentioned anything about Reggie.

tense2
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Sorry Caps, it was Clipperboy24 who I was suppose to be referring to.

CapsNClips
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It's okay, I get mistaken for him all the time on the street. I'm used to it.

tense2
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Good one...Chuckle.

Amnesty_David_Stern
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Pretty sad performance against Miami. I understand the Heat were hounding CP3, but perhaps some more set plays for him to maybe get some better looks via screens or give and gos would have helped. If he can't score and get into a rhythm of some sorts he's not going to be the guy I'd like to shoot later on in the game during crunch time.

The defense overall murdered us. We played so sloppy it was unbelievable. Even the few clips I saw that Kenny Smith showed at halftime were clear cut signs that the team has massive flaws that can be exploited nightly. Nobody knew where they were supposed to go and mismatches were all over the place.

You can't do that against any team, but more importantly a Miami team with a guy like Lebron who can post up, take jumpers, shoot 3pters, D Wade whose explosive all over the court, a slew of players that can hit 3pters with ease and Chris Bosh who can hit shots from all over the floor too, as well as post up.

When dealing with a beast you have to have precautions and set game plans. I saw nothing of the sorts watching the game. I was shocked we stayed in the game, but that was really only because we controlled the glass, got to the line more and Lebron was kept quiet until the end of the 3rd quarter.

Voyeur
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We had to make very unusual rotations because Barnes is out and Dudley has a bad knee. Essentially we were without a SF who was at 100% and trying to play LeBron so we had to make do...we actually kinda did okay against him (except when Willie was on him). But other people benefited like Wade who had "something to prove" apparently. Kenny Smith will point out all negatives, but fact is our offense is better than those TNT guys suggested. Their D did slow us down, but they took us out of what was working for us...ball movement and moving without the ball. It sounds like Doc and the players all realize that. As long as they do, our offense will be okay.

Agent0
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Miami's whole defense is predicated on disrupting and harassing PG's. You generally can't just go with the same sets against them as they will hard trap on pick and rolls, and one thing that always get's forgotten is how great Bosh is on pick and roll defense. Bosh is actually a VERY good defender for the Heat. He's so long, mobile and active that as a PG, it's annoying to see him coming to play ICE and harass you on pick and rolls.

Man to man defense is great an all, but if you're mediocre at man to man defense, but great in team defense and especially pick and roll defense as a big man, you will do a ton of good for your team.

CP3Best
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Clippers just SUCK! BAD! In the end it's about winning games. WE're not even in the playoff picture. I know it's early but we still suck. WE're supposed to win against teams that we're supposed to beat and try our best against teams like Miami. We lost to both The lakers the FUCIN' lakers, and we lost to Orlando. This team sucks right now, let's see what happens in December, cause our defense still sucks!

david
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Chalmers needs to be suspended too- that was like a sucker punch to the throat. I wouldn't be surprised at some payback the next time we play the Heat, probably courtesy of a similar elbow to the throat by Matt Barnes to Lebron to Wade.

Terrible decision by the refs not reviewing that foul would have resulted in Chalmers being ousted. I think if Blake reacted a bit more angrily, then it may have pushed them to review. That would have been +2 FT's for Blake. You couple that w/ Chalmers being ejected & then with that terrible "foul" call against CP3 on that clean strip vs Lebron, and it could've been a different ball game.

clippersforlife33
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Chalmers needs to be suspended too- that was like a sucker punch to the throat. I wouldn't be surprised at some payback the next time we play the Heat, probably courtesy of a similar elbow to the throat by Matt Barnes to Lebron to Wade. Terrible decision by the refs not reviewing that foul would have resulted in Chalmers being ousted. I think if Blake reacted a bit more angrily, then it may have pushed them to review. That would have been +2 FT's for Blake. You couple that w/ Chalmers being ejected & then with that....

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Voyeur
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^

This feels similar to that groin smack by Ibaka. Ibaka should have been ejected with a Flagrant 2. As obvious as both are, they didn't deem them Flagrant 2's until a day later and Ibaka wasn't suspended. It's total B.S.!

DocHollywood
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I'm really worried about our playoff seeding in November too man. You can't ignore the threat of our defense steadily improving under the guidance of one of the league's best defensive coaches. And this guy Gentry has us running all these fancy new-fangled offensive sets scoring only 137 points in the fourth game of the season...I expect more out of our players and coaching staff this deep into the season. I'm just more and more concerned that we're headed down a slippery slope towards inevitable success....this sucks.

Voyeur
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Please...We're just gelling together. We have some injuries. We've started with a very tough schedule. We'll be alright.

gman
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Aside all the problems we had (no Barnes and half of Dudley. CP taken out of game. No bench other than Jamal. D Wade having something to prove. An "no impact" game from Griffin, according to i believe it was R. Miller),

the refs were having home cooking.

-The Reddick foul on Wade should have been erased with the R. Miller kicking foul.

-At end of 1st half, Wade clearly held Jamal which caused the ball to come lose and Clipper fail to even take a shot.

-Griffin, at end of game i believe, got hit as he was cornered with a double team as he was passing the ball out to Reddick at top of key. No call because they were being aggressive??

-Chalmers' flagrant foul which gives clips free-throws and ball out of bounds. This would have been a big play. Chalmers out of game and opportunity to still score after free throws.

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