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Poll
Is Jamal Crawford a problem playing w/ the Starters?
Yes
21%
 21%  [ 3 ]
No
78%
 78%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 14


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PaulSoleil
Post Subject: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He's Being Used Post ID: 412755by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:10 PM PST
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So yeah, before everyone goes crazy, let me first explain what I mean. (This also deals with bench production)

Jamal is basically a ball hog. Most of the time he touches it, he shoots it, good shot or not. Last year, when he was spearheading the Clipper's second unit, it fit in well with that group because aside from Bledsoe, there weren't any real scorers out there.

Now because Doc is mixing him in with the starters, it upsets the cart for 2 reasons:

1). Crawford ball hogging takes opportunities away from the four other guys out there who are as good or better than him, and defeats a set offense, because Crawford is always looking to go one on one

2). It leaves the second unit without a scorer.

So it effectually lessens the effectiveness of both squads

Doc needs to keep Crawford with the second unit



                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412756by CapsNClips » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:20 PM PST
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Less shots from Crawford = More shots from Mullens.

Please shoot more Jamal.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412759by ClipperPostman » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:31 PM PST
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I'm challenging your argument and calling it FALSE.

  1. In basketball there are SET plays. Crawford isn't a "Ball Hog" they call isolation plays designed to take advantage of the defense and get a bucket.

  2. It works because he is scoring 16ppg.

  3. I watched every game and a lot of his scoring HAS NOT been on isolation plays. It's coming off the ball catch and shoot.

ALL of his 3's this year have been on catch and shoot great off the ball movement.

  1. The bench just can't score. Do you know how many times mullens has clanked a 3 pointer?

Darren collison is hurt and isn't attacking at all.

Jamal's shooting singlehandely kept us in the Miami heat game when he was playing with the starters.

Did you watch that game? If you didn't you should go back and watch it and you will see everything I'm saying is 100% accurate.

Good thread though.

                
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david
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412760by david » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:31 PM PST
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Jamal so far is the best Clipper 3 point shooter at 45.7%, and has a PPS higher than Jared Dudley & Matt Barnes. I can't agree with not putting him out there with whomever when needed. If Doc Rivers thinks Jamal is upsetting the offense w/ the starters, then I doubt he would keep playing that combination. I actually do see him go more 1 on 1 when when the second unit, but w/ the starters he is mostly a spot-up shooter.

Added a poll....

Welcome to Clippers Topbuzz BTW!

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412761by Voyeur » Nov 09, 2013 - 01:33 PM PST
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Plus, the Clippers have no alternative right now but to have Jamal play SF until Dudley and Barnes are healthy. I also kinda like the 3 guard lineup late in games. Lots of options.

                
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PaulSoleil
Post ID: 412768by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:07 PM PST
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Agreed. But Mullens is with the 2nd unit.

More shots from Jamal with the first unit mean less shots from Paul, Redick and Griffin. And he's been forcing up a ton lately...

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412769by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:09 PM PST
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Jamal played with the first unit last season also. He played 29 MPG. The bench played about 15 MPG, so about 14 MPG he was playing with the starters, that is, so almost half his minutes.

This season Jamal is playing 25 MPG, the bench is playing about 12 MPG, so he's playing 13 MPG with the starters, again about half his minutes.

Now, all the other stuff might have some truth to it, but the beginning premise is not factually correct.

It isn't possible for Jamal to only play with the bench unless he only plays 15 MPG.

                
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PaulSoleil
Post ID: 412771by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:11 PM PST
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There were some good points there, and I definitely watched that Miami game. Second half, he did keep us in the game....first half (and forgive me if I'm wrong because I wasn't thinking about this while watching the game) but he forced and missed a lot with the first unit.

Now doesn't some tiny part of you just think he's going to shoot it every time he touches it?

                
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PaulSoleil
Post ID: 412773by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:14 PM PST
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I think Doc's still feeling it out. And if you were a coach, you would definitely probably think you should put your best offense out there....however....this is where I'm thinking outside the box a little. Because if you watched all the Clippers games last year, Crawford was a monster with the second unit....but probably because they leaned on him.

The more obvious thing to do is what Doc is doing.....and on the surface would SEEM to make more sense

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412774by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:15 PM PST
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Now, is he upsetting the offense? Yes and no, mostly no.

Jamal like last season does a lot of off-ball and spot up action when he's on the court with the first unit.

Some sets have an isolation as an option, and he takes them, but I think his decision making on when to and not to do so isn't always the best. Isolation is his game, he defaults to it and he does break out of the offense probably more than you would generally like to seek isolation.

Of course the counter is that "well he's been productive so far", and while that is true, the obvious downfall to that thinking is that it isn't forward thinking. Also it is the plight of that "type" of player, but since Jamal isn't a lead player on this team, it isn't a problem, but those players can shoot you out of games as much as they can help you in games. Isn't much of an issue here as CP can coral any of that.

The obvious question we want to ask is this "is that style consistently successful against better teams / better defensive teams?" The answer is probably that there would be a bit more global benefit in being more selective in when to break out into isolation and when to keep running the offense.

So I think he just needs to improve the balance and he's fine.

                
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PaulSoleil
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412775by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:18 PM PST
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And what does a -1 mean? Guess I said something unpopular. Just understand that I am on no way dissing Jamal, I'm saying i think it's better for the TEAM for him to lead the second unit (would help solve our half court set with the first unit and the scoring problem of the second)

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412776by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:19 PM PST
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Like I mentioned, even when Jamal is getting minutes with the starters, he's still always there with the second unit. The second unit does not play as many minutes as Jamal, so for him to play his minutes he HAS to be with the starters for about half of his on court time.

I think you mixed up to things. It isn't mutually exclusive for Jamal to play with the starters and with the bench, he can and does do both.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412777by Voyeur » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:22 PM PST
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None of this will matter as much if our bench defends better. I have faith Collison, Barnes, along with Crawford can lead a potent offensive attack. 2 of those guys have to get healthy. I have questions about some of the other reserves.

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412778by DocHollywood » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:26 PM PST
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Great first post. This is gonna be entertaining- Jamal is deeply loved by a certain contingent around here. He's like the Clipper's own lesser version of Kobe in so many ways it's uncanny lol. Notice how well the Lakers are doing without Kobe this year? A whole lot better than last year, that's for sure. They are consistently moving the ball every time down the court finding the open man. It works even with scrubs like the Lakers. It will work even better for us once every player starts only working within Alvin's proven system.

                
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PaulSoleil
Post ID: 412779by PaulSoleil » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:36 PM PST
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Sometimes he is and sometimes he isn't....honestly, it's really been a weird mix of players. I think Doc is just feeling everything out. Something Redick said I thought was interesting was that he and Dudley were still trying to figure out where there shots are going to come from (granted jj has been a little off recently...I'm sure it will even out as the year goes on)

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 412780by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 09, 2013 - 02:55 PM PST
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GREAT POST

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 412793by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 09, 2013 - 03:27 PM PST
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If he were a ball hog he'd be on the bench. Willie can play.

                
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DocHollywood
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 412798by DocHollywood » Nov 09, 2013 - 05:40 PM PST
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I'm starting to wonder if we wouldn't be wise to continue playing Jamal at the 1 when CP is out. Collison has been the player I've been most underwhelmed and concerned by. He just seems like a scoring 2 guard who isn't very good about passing instead of taking tough shots. He's a better off the ball player and it seems like Doc is already flipping his and Jamal's roles off the bench.

Collison plus Mullens/Hollins/Jamison for a 3rd big? Can we use our 2.5mil TPE in combination with trade pieces to get an MLE level big man?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 412801by tense2 » Nov 09, 2013 - 06:37 PM PST
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Pretty sure you cannot combine TPE in combination with trade pieces.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 412804by Agent0 » Nov 09, 2013 - 06:56 PM PST
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The ball sticks when Jamal is at the 1. At least at the 2 more than one person touches the ball. Too often at the 1 he'll just bring the ball up the court and call his own number.

He doesn't really like the 1 himself, that was part of the problem in Portland, and last year we saw how awful it was when Bledsoe was starting and there was no backup PG

                
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DocHollywood
Post ID: 412886by DocHollywood » Nov 09, 2013 - 08:20 PM PST
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I know what you mean. It seems like Jamal and Darren are just too similar to be on the floor at the same time. Neither plays effective defense either, so we're reliant on Mullens to try (and fail) to stop penetration into the paint.

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Jamal Crawford is the Problem,or Rather, How He Post ID: 413101by Clippersfan86 » Nov 09, 2013 - 11:00 PM PST
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Crawford sure as hell isn't any sort of problem this year. He's playing harder than I've ever seen on D and he's scoring excellently on good efficiency.

                
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