Jared Dudley Performance Discussion Thread (P. 5)

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clipperboy24
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The thing is he always has moved in slow motion his career. He is one of the least athletic players in the league. Him getting in better shape I guarantee would help this out.

His play is just terrible in some of these games and we would be much better off playing Bullock as the starter and Barnes off the bench (Barnes always has played better off the bench it seems). If he really is so injured like everyone says than bench him.

pageC4
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at this point giving Bullock an opportunity wouldn't hurt. Last nights performance by Dudley can't be defended and theres no way Bullock could have done worse. We need to at least try Bullock. I have a suspicion that he would do better than Dudley

CP3Heliflopter
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He has never been that slow. He was never fast or particularly athletic but his mobility has never been THAT bad in the many games I have seen him play as a Sun. I agree with playing Bullock more. It couldn't hurt with how shitty Dudley has been + it will help him recover faster and allow us to develop Bullock more. Has Bullock even made a shot yet? He needs a break out game but you can't have a break out game without minutes.

Silasie
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Yes, Bullock has made a shot.

Agent0
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People mentioned Caron earlier, I thought it was a poor signing for the money because Caron actually has been an injury prone player for almost all his career. I think his Clippers seasons were actually two of his most healthy outside of the hand issue his first year near the playoffs.

He played 63/66 and 78/82 regular season games his two years as a Clipper. That's actually like the best health he's had over a two year span in the NBA, ever!

So Caron was a gamble from the get go health wise, and that was my complaint when he was signed, in addition to his pay check. I felt he was more of an MLE player at that point.

The issue here with Dudley is that it's hard to take a couple of games while injured for a player who has 4 previous years and 308 games of solid production and then say these 10 games are more representative of the caliber of player he is as opposed to the previous 308. It's just not a good conclusion.

Now of course if he plays a whole season this poorly, that is even after feeling better, then we'd have to conclude that he's either regressed or the fit just doesn't work. Tendinitis and/or tendinosis can be a serious injury depending on the severity, so it's a bit hard to judge how much it is impacting him.

It is a rest injury though, so he's not going to be able to play himself out of it, he actually needs to take time off.


I'll give you a perfect example of what this is like, and some of the people on this board even did it.

J.J. Redick had 4.75 seasons of solid play before going to Milwaukee. As a Buck he shot 40.3% FG and 31.8% 3PT, and had a career low .529 TS%. His poor play wasn't due to injury or anything, just really bad fit

Some Clipper fans when he was signed were using his 28 games as a Buck as the means to judge the caliber of player he was and could be for this tea, as opposed to the previous 330 games where he had played excellently, including 50 very good games with Orlando in that same season. Some of us were saying that just doesn't make sense, you can't judge a players whole body of work based on his worst times, and this works for vice versa, you can't judge a players whole body of work based on a small sample where he produced really well (this works for a guy like Mullens).

It's basically the exact same situation, though even with a larger sample than 10 games, but still a very poor sample compared to 330 games. So now, so far as a Clipper, was J.J's 28 games as a Buck truly meaningful in evaluating him in his role as a Clipper in comparison to the other 4.75 seasons?

You tell me...

I mean Paul is a 25% 3PT shooter 10 games in, but 36.6% the previous 477 games of his career.

clipperboy24
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I hear you and was a Jared Dudley fan/supporter just like I was a Caron butler fan. This just has caron butler written all over it which would suck. We pick up a guy who was solidly productive (Caron was much more productive but also more expensive). If he is injured would be nice if the team would just address it and sit him or reduce his minutes.

CP3Heliflopter
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The difference was Caron was coming off a serious knee injury in Dallas and was older than Dudley. Dudley was coming off a decent season on a very very bad Suns team and is younger.

Dudley got injured in the off season I believe. Tendonitis as far as I know is not a serious injury(though I am not sure how severe his case is) but it can get serious if you don't rest. Its just an injury that takes time to heal but it can potentially get worse if he keeps playing or at the very least it will take him longer to recover.

The way he is playing it definitely wouldn't hurt to drastically reduce his minutes or let him rest for several games.

Voyeur
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I'm still trying to reserve judgement with Dudley...trying to be patient but DAMN we need him to hit when he's wide open. And grab maybe 3 or 4 rebounds.

Icecoldclipper
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Anyone else think the Dallas Mavericks don't win the title if Caron is healthy going into that post season? Just fell like his game is better suited in his prime as a sixth man. As far as Dudley he needs to shut it down after Memphis if not versus Memphis. If the injury has dropped him this much he needs to rest.

Phu7
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me too. I would like him to get some rest and get healthy. He was hitting the 3 at a 50% clip earlier but has been struggling. I think he'll be fine with the 3s but he has to stop trying to be CP3 and just make the simple pass.

jarca
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I remember a while back moneyball folks were trying to argue with their advance stat that Dudley is better than Deng and Afflalo. I wonder if they still think so

david
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Dudley has been pretty 1 dimensional so far and a big disappointment. The defense closes out on him, and he can't make his own play from there, and the offense stalls as he passes it back out. Or he drives and throws the ball away. Can't believe we gave up Eric Bledsoe for him + a second rounder, lol. Should've had at least a lottery pick Phoenix. Averaging 1.7 rebound in 27 minutes- injured or not, that's just pathetic.

And it's sad how some assumed he would get better stats playing with the Clippers & Chris Paul, but the opposite has happened.

clipperboy24
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Yep no advanced stats can prove he is even worth the $5mm.

He truly looks fat and lazy, it's really disturbing how slow he is. And then He does that behind the back pass attempt... Well I think I have seen it all...

Doc really screwed up tonight.

CLIPSET
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should have at least thrown in Scola. Scola would have been nice off the bench.

Icecoldclipper
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My biggest let down so far was I thought he was suppose to be a go to defensive stopper. Just from everything I heard he was suppose to be a Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen, or Tayshaun Prince type glue guy. If everything is based on injury he needs to be shut down immediately so he can heal. If its not then adjustments need to be made because I'm feeling of Gomesism and at least Gomes could move side to side well.

Either way Reggie should be prepared.

Silasie
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Scola would have been great from the bench.

clipperboy24
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You got sold false advertising. He has never been a great defensive stopper. Was a decent defender but mainly was useful because if his high shooting %. Right now he is just overweight which is affecting his whole game. He never was close to a Tayshaun Prince or a Shane Battier, whoever said that was living in a fantasy world.

Silasie
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Is he over-weight? Someone on this board said that is his normal body shape when he is in shape.

DocHollywood
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No doubt Dudley isn't playing well, but lets get a couple things straight: he's paid 4.25 mil which is a good price for his normal/expected production. He also was part of a three team deal. IT WAS NOT BLEDSOE FOR DUDLEY, AND IT WAS NOT CARON FOR REDICK. It was Redick and Dudley for Caron's awful contract, Bledsoe, and one of our future 2nd round picks. No sane person would trade Bledsoe for Dudley, just like Caron and a 2nd round pick for JJ is laughable by itself. I'm bummed Dudley isn't playing well too, but he still has tendenitis as far as we know and he's still playing even though he needs time to heal. If people are of the mind to bash the guy, that's fine, but get the facts straight instead of embellishing and acting like he's fat, he's always sucked at defense etc.

tense2
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Maybe IF Scola wasn't making 4.5 mil. The trade would not have worked for us in getting Redick. We needed to shed $ not add for the Clippers to acquire JJ.

Silasie
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Thankyou. I keep hearing people bemoan the the fact that we got a terrible deal for Bledsoe. Maybe we could have done better but getting Reddick is already looking like a v good move.

I am a bit concerned about the the tendinitis though cos I thought that was the type of thing that can take 6 months to heal.

clipperboy24
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Whether its his usual playing weight doesn't define if a player is overweight. It does look like he has gained weight and contrary to what others tried to say, it was never said he had always sucked on defense but that he has never been a great defender.

Basically what is happening and will most likely continue happening is back pedaling by people who were so quick to lash out and so quick to defend and question other people's opinions about basketball in general.

Pretty funny actually.

Icecoldclipper
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What makes that deal worse is that the Bucks took Butler's contract weeks later. Either the Bucks and Suns had a under the table aggrreement or something but it made no sense in the end. We could have cut out the Suns and traded Bledsoe to a Eastern team that needed a PG.

At the least they would of threw in Udoh and a lesser big. Still have hope though it will work.

tense2
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Weeks later would not haven't netted us JJ. The chances were very very high he would have signed elsewhere.

Bucks took Butler when there was nothing else left in the FA market.

DocHollywood
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Oh the irony. You've personally lashed out at me numerous times in this thread when you disagreed with my opinion. You've also back pedaled by repeatedly not responding to my posts that had clearly discredited yours- Pretty funny actually. Strangely, it now seems like you're warming up for some sort of victory lap here ClipperBoy LOL

ClipperKyle32
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2-17 isn't great for JAred

tense2
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From Doc's mouth to your ears:

Dudley still hurting

Rivers said starting small forward Jared Dudley is not able to play much more than the 26.8 minutes he averages because of a very sore right knee.

Dudley played 29 minutes against the Timberwolves and scored 11 points.

"With Jared, we're trying to limit his minutes," Rivers said. "Obviously, having Matt out makes it more difficult. But I'm going to still keep his minutes down."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-cli ... z2lIw6R3Bd

clipperboy24
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From Doc's mouth to your ears: Dudley still hurting Rivers said starting small forward Jared Dudley is not able to play much more than the 26.8 minutes he averages because of a very sore right knee. Dudley played 29 minutes against the Timberwolves and scored 11 points. "With Jared, we're trying to limit his minutes," Rivers said. "Obviously, having Matt out makes it more difficult. But I'm going to still keep his minutes down." http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-clippers-fyi-20131121,0,506931.sto ry#ixzz2lIw6R3Bd
Well it's stupid for doc to keep him at his previous 2 year starter level 27mpg. Hope he gets better and he probably won't be logging a lot of minutes. ....

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Agent0
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He does look skinnier in that video, but I can't judge that well, he was on a good eating program. Maybe coming closer to home has spoiled him Wink

http://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/nba-diet

When Barnes comes back, they should let Dudley take 1-2 weeks off. Do pool exercises.

CP3Heliflopter
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Its cause Barnes is out again. Otherwise he would get around 20 mpg.

Barnes got hit in the eye by the Dirty Griz.

DocHollywood
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I think Dudley needs to gain some weight just like Lamar does lol.

It's not his weight that's an issue, it's 100% his knee....Somebody in the press would have already written a "Is Jared Dudley fat?" article by now if ANYONE on the Clippers thought he was overweight. Really, this is his fighting weight lol.

jarca
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Dudley or Gomes 2.0 needs to come off the bench

clipperboy24
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And his "playing weight" is most likely making any knee problems worse. He himself has admitted he struggles with weight problems. Don't know why you are so blind to that.

DocHollywood
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If weight was a concern, Doc or somebody would have mentioned it by now and the press would have ran with it. I'm certain of this. Jared jokes about having been a fat kid and I'm sure he'd also be the first to admit if he was overweight now. You think he "looks fat and lazy." I think he looks injured and I don't accept the impugning of his work ethic with what we all actually know.

ClippersDA
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I agree with Charles as much as I hate to say it that we need an athletic wing that can cut and shoot. Barnes isn't quite it. I get the idea behind acquiring jared, but his lack of athleticism makes his shooting almost redundant if he can't make threes.

DocHollywood
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Totally agree we need somebody healthy who can give us solid minutes at the 3....Reggie is getting an early opportunity on the big stage- hopefully he can exceed expectations.

clipperboy24
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Well he should have exceeded your expectations says you were basically saying he was a worthless rookie.

DocHollywood
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Do you intentionally misinterpret what I say or do you have reading comprehension issues? I'm really starting to wonder.

Like Doc said the other day, it doesn't mean anything if Reggie performs good or bad in a few individual games right now. We still won't know if he's truly capable of performing at an NBA level for a while. I'm glad he finally made some shots the other day and he brought good intensity as I would expect. Now hopefully he can hold his own until Barnes and Dudley are both back at full strength. If he can do that, he will have exceeded my expectations.

clipperboy24
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Did I misinterpret this post?

DocHollywood
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Context context context. I and nearly everyone else had responded to you acting like our unproven rookie was better than Dudley before he had even made a basket in an NBA game. I had stated nothing but empirical truths about rookies and Reggie Bullock's performance up to that point with the Clippers. Dudley was hitting his shots and Bullock was NOT. Like every other contributor besides you, I had stated that Reggie was very likely not yet ready for the big stage. Nobody, myself included, ever said that Reggie was worthless, and you know that. However, I appreciate your tenacity, and I sincerely hope that you will continue barking up my tree lol.

clipperboy24
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Nice try

DocHollywood
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No prob. Anytime.

Clippers_FTW
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I was most excited for Dudley and lest excited about Reddick... So far Reddick has been everything I thought he couldn't. Dudley said in an interview that the corner 3 was like a layup for him.... Well damn bro.. you've been missing a lot of layups... I'm liking what I am seeing with Bullock... Eff it.. start him lol

ClipSince7thGrade
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I'm not really liking Dudley thus far. I wasn't too big on picking him up because of the TMZ interview he had years ago, also I didn't see that much of a difference between him and Caron. He's supposed to be making threes for us and I've seen him miss more open ones than making them. I would be looking to trade him right now for another SF or PF. I still think that Matt Barnes should be our starting SF as long as Crawford can be the vocal leader of the second unit

jarca
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At least Caron can get us at least 10 points in 24 minutes

CP3Heliflopter
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Way too early to be making such statements. He will be fine but what TMZ interview are you referring to?

Dudley had a pretty good game today.

clipperboy24
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He was ripping on Blake saying he could only dunk. He had gotten into quite a few tussles with Blake.

Looks like all the videos were pulled down from YouTube for permission violations.

clipperboy24
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Also Dudley looks great and moving fine. I thought he as injured just yesterday? Lol, what's today's excuse? Recovered overnight. I stand by my stat net he looked lazy and not playing hard. He is actually playing hard today and looks good.

Also caron scored 38 the other night then had a 5 pt game the next day. I bet Dudley has a sub 10 pt game next game and everyone still says he is an upgrade over caron. Granted he is paid less do the is good.

austin009009
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His isn't really injured... just aging and has pain in his knees. rest is the only thing for him so limiting his minutes is the best they can do

ohMEohMy!
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Dudley 21 pts, 8-10 FG (4-5 3pt). He'll be fine..

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