Jared Dudley Performance Discussion Thread (P. 10)

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pageC4
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The defensive stats are not as common are they? They aren't as well known as the other types: PER, PER36, etc.

ClipperPostman
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How can you say a Healthy Dudley is much better lol when no one has seen this. All we can go buy is the facts. Dudley has been stinking.

Some of it is his knee, but he is clanking wide open 3's. Also missing defensive assignments. I'm sorry man but DUDley right now isn't living up to the hype.

I've said many times I chose Dudley over Caron.. But he is stinking up the joint bad. I'm comparing the last 2 years simply by showing Caron was a better clipper than Dudley so far. And is playing better on the bucks then Dudley is this year.

Again Comparing an All-star like Caron to Dudley over a career is useless. Dudley is no where near in Caron's league career wise and never will be.

CP3Heliflopter
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No one has seen this? You mean he didn't have a career before coming to the Clippers? lol

clipper*joe
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I'm pretty sure he means this season...As a Clipper.

jarca
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Without using stats, tell me what makes them a better basketball players than Deng?

Athleticism- Deng

Shooting- redick and Dudley

Slashing- deng

Defender- deng

Help defense- deng

ISO defense- deng

Attacking the basket- deng

Minutes- deng

tense2
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Hmmm....these say something else.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2012 2011-12 season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2013 2012/13 season

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2014 this year so far

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2014 Life time numbers

DocHollywood
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So you're saying you want to take a 17 game span while Dudley has been hurt and compare it to Caron's production when healthy the last two seasons, is that right?......enjoy yourself.

tense2
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I'm not using MY INDIVIDUAL stats, those are their numbers not mine, lol and they're needed to tell the whole story. And Basketball Reference is not some blogger. If you don't know what formulas goes into some of these advanced stat site models, not quite sure how you can objectively criticize them.

And yes, I call you skeptic.

Razz

tense2
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Doc, if you look at those links from BBrefence you'll see the truth. wink

Icecoldclipper
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Dudley was very bad but seemed like every time Bullock came in then Salmons came in and looked like Carmelo. Hopefully Matt can get in rhythm fast.

clipper*joe
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LOL. I actually know what formulas...errr...tweaks they've changed from the original sabermetrics model that Bill James created. Look up sabermetrics to get a better idea of what i am talking about and then read up on the changes...err...tweaks they've made. I gave you this information on my last post so not sure how you came to the conclusion that i don't know what tweaks...eerr..."formulas" as you suggest, were made. I am a skeptic anytime someone tries to use a model for something else and then tweak it to fit a different mold. I use stats whenever possible but I never think they're the gospel truth. Seems you live and die by them.

DocHollywood
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Sometimes the truth is just so.......convenient lol

Joey
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I can't seem to like him at all lol, he's not meant to be a starter, I miss Caron.

ClipperPostman
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I'm confused... Are you arguing for CARON?? LOL I'm looking at the comparison for this year Caron is killing Dudley... Even in Per 36....

Those stats are saying exactly what I'm saying. DUDley in his career and in this season shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as an ALL STAR like Caron.

tense2
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Wow...you just don't get it and it's in black and white. Have fun in that bubble Professor. roll

tense2
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Tweaks from the "original" saber metrics is good...I applaud that. I want them to continue to improve their models when new data comes in. You're a fan of Nate Silver, you should know what he thinks and says about just that. Ever look into the Wins Produce model?

And no I don't live and die by stats alone or think stats are the so-called gospel truth, LOL. They're a very useful tool to help me to try and make objective, fair mined player analysis. I stand buy the better sites that aren't afraid to say when their numbers validate players or teams and also admit when their numbers were wrong on certain players/teams. Always looking to get better but knowing there are no absolutes.

They're very helpful with players who others think what they "see" or "watch" and come to the conclusion aren't as productive as the data indicates. Such players as DJ, Barnes and Dudley (when healthy). Their also good at picking out guys who aren't very productive like Mullins.

So to each his own...stay with what is most comfortable for you. You go your way, I'll go mine. So far I'm satisfied with the results, not perfect, but pretty darn good.

DocHollywood
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I agree that you are confused.

ClipperPostman
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Yes very confused. Dudley has stunk it up since he got here. He has said it himself. Yet somehow you guys are saying he is playing just fine. Then saying he is having a better year than caron had last year for us.

This is laughable at best. Sad at worst.

DocHollywood
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Hey everybody, we've found another straw man!

Agent0
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How did we go from saying we need ALL the data a couple pages ago to comparing players based on like 4 of their stats. I mean if we are comparing offense statistically, we aren't really starting any good statistical comparison without bringing in TS% and Ortg.

Statistically, Caron's advantage over Dudley this year is that he is that he is rebounding better. There is no significant difference in their 3PT%.

If we look at the fairly comprehensive offensive stats:

Butler:

13.2 PPG (16.1 pts/36), 11.9 FGA, 39.7% 2PT, 36.9 3PT%, .507 TS%, 13.4 TOV%, 94 Ortg

Dudley:

8.0 PPG (10.2 pts/36), 6.8 FGA, 57.4% 2PT, 36.1 3PT%, .561 TS%, 13.6 TOV%, 105 Ortg

That is all the relevant offensive data. I mean statistics are available to everyone, why try to hide something that's relevant.

Based on the games so far, we would pay $4M more for more rebounding and worse offense if we are going by Caron on Milwaukee. Assuming not much decline from last year, Caron's offense might be more similar to last seasons, so less scoring efficiency (.535 TS%), but slightly higher Ortg (107) due to lower TOV%. So it wouldn't be worse offense, he could theoretically be slightly better.

Rebounding wouldn't be as much as those number suggest because Caron only averaged 4.4 rebs/36 both years as a Clipper, and these current numbers (6.8 rebs/36) are based on 12 games.

In terms of value, it is really hard to make a logical argument for Caron over Dudley. Caron based on Clipper performance last season is barely better than Dudley offensively at his worst (this is Dudley's career lowest Ortg). Caron his first year as a Clipper is worse (.501 TS%, 102 Ortg). Dudley on a lottery team last season with Phoenix was much better offensively than current Caron with Milwaukee and every other year was much better in a similar role on a good team to Caron on the Clippers last year.

Caron (older version) just does not bring more value to an offense historically, and Dudley's defense, though it has been quite meh, let's not kid ourselves that any of us thought Caron's defense was good or that the difference (is there any?) in their defense is worth $4M.

david
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Hey just a friendly warning to some of you participating in personal attacks here that I will be forced to dole out official warnings if you continue violating the site's #1 rule. If you can't debate without resorting to personal attacks, then please don't debate at all. Thanks in advance....

Agent0
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1) I never said they were better players

2) Why are we comparing two players to one?

    -Minutes is a stat. Stamina would make more sense, but minutes played doesn't mean better stamina.

    -Slashing and attacking the basket are the same thing.

    -I'd argue that Deng is more long than he is athletic. Deng has never been a player who's game was about how athletic he is. Trevor Ariza who we mentioned before is a decently superior pure athlete to Deng. Deng is a smart and hard working player.

    -I'd also argue that Redick's main issue is length, not athletic ability. He's not an elite athlete, but he isn't nonathletic. Redick is short basketball wise, that's his problem, a SG in a PG's body.

    -Defender, Help defense and ISO defense are a bit redundant. You only need either just "defender", or the last two if you are breaking down defense. It's like saying:

      Shooter - Redick

      Mid-range shooter - Redick/Dudley

      3PT Shooter - Redick

      FT Shooter - Redick

    Makes more sense to pick the individual breakdown or just the overall "shooter" as opposed to being redundant

With that said, you're still talking about "better" when we are talking about value. Redick is better moving without the ball, good for him.

I'll tell you how they are better:

    -Needing to fill two (actually three) positions with at least average - above average players: Redick and Dudley

Redick + Dudley = $10.8M, I can have those two and still have $3.5M left to spend on a player as opposed to having Deng = $14.3M. Basically Deng = Redick + Dudley + Barnes contract wise. So my SF rotation and my starting SG.

Paul + Griffin + Jordan + Deng = $63.3M. Clippers are currently at $73.3M. Add Crawford, $68.5M. You have 5 players and $4.8M to fill up 8-10 roster spots and you don't even have a sure fire championship contender yet. Good job building that team GM!

In summer, the report was that Deng was looking for $12.5M. $12.5M for a fringe All-Star player? At that price I'd rather go after a year in, year out All-Star caliber player for a little more money, or use to money to get 3-4 great fitting complimentary pieces.

Deng is a better player than Dudley. Deng is a better player than Redick, no one is arguing that (at least I don't think so). What I'm saying is that Deng is not better value than Redick and Dudley (especially with him playing at his historical ability).

    This is an example of my team with Deng:

    Paul / Wayns

    Green / Crawford

    Deng / Bullock

    Griffin / Jamison

    Jordan / Hollins

    ($73.3M)

    Keeping approximately the same salary. I'd still only have 10 players. So maybe I'd have to go cheaper than Green ($1.4M) and Jamison ($1.4M) in order to accomplish that. So probably Mullens ($948K) as my backup C, start Bullock at SG, get a d-league or undrafted guy as backup SF. It's like the inferior Chicago Bulls. At least they've had/have solid bench bigs (Asik, Gibson).

Akclipps
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Reggie bullock> jared dudley

Icecoldclipper
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Where is the panic level? We need to improves the starters man defense player by player.

DocHollywood
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Jared needs time off RIGHT NOW to heal up. He obviously is not anywhere close to being the player he was last year in Phoenix.

Heediot
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If he is still sucking when he's healed, trade his ass for a backup big. Even if he plays well (trade value goes up), I would still trade him. Bullock has a lot of promise, give him burn.

Bullock would be better with the starters. Crawford barely gives him the ball. Barnes is better as an energy guy off the bench as well.

Or we can keep Dudley and use TPE for a big.

clipperboy24
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Bullock does only get paid $1.2mm so it would be financially advantageous also to grow him.

pageC4
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Bullock definitely looked good out there. You should feel vindicated after yesterday because I know you were a proponent of reducing Dudleys minutes and giving them to Bullock.

DocHollywood
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I think Doc and I both have had a hard time wrapping our heads around just how negatively impacted Jared's game has become from his injury. I wanted to let him temporarily try learning to play with the bad knee if he could still contribute, especially while Barnes is out. His offense sometimes looks good, but he just can't move quickly enough to cover anyone even remotely close to Paul George's level right now. Like he has said, his lateral movement has been very effected by the tendinitis. If he was really quick to begin with, maybe it would work out, but it's not happening. The uncharacteristic boneheaded plays he's trying once or twice a game right now are sealing his spot on the DNP list for me until he is COMPLETELY healed and ready to go. It might take many months or even the rest of the season, but whether we eventually trade him or keep him, his health returning to normal needs to be our top priority. Playing him at this stage has too many short AND potentially long-term drawbacks for both him and the team.

wessleejr
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Agree with this Bullock is young and quick, Doc should give him more time to learn I was not impressed by Dudley after the pre-season and until now.

ClippersDA
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Dudley has had one good game. At this point I'd severely limit his minutes and try to offload him. He is such a negative when he is out there, yesterday I felt it was 3 on 5 (Willie gave nothing on either end). Can't beat good teams getting no production from Starting 2 and 3. I was reluctant to say start reggie, but he seems more clutch and plays way better defense. Dudley might be injured (yet still played great against Chicago) but he just mentally does not seem in it. He is a turnover machine. Seems like a nice guy but not a good fit for this team. His abilities are not maximized by playing on a winning team like all journalists said they would be this summer. It's so annoying that we are stuck with him.

CP3Heliflopter
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So much overreactions its funny. Why would you trade Dudley when his trade value is at an all time low? He has been playing with a severely limited knee. If Barnes was healthy he would be resting right now but Barnes isn't healthy. The Redick injury made things worse. I would prefer it if he didn't play until he was 100% since he is just a liability at this point but sadly it isn't an option right now with our injuries.

Just can't wait until everyone is 100% healthy. Sadly it looks like that won't be happening for a while. :/

Agent0
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Yea, trading a guy at his worst doesn't make sense. What exactly would we be expecting to get back when we get on the phone and say "hey, we have Jared Dudley with tendonitis", can we get a good and useful player back? They'll be like "how about you call us back when the tendonitis is healed and maybe we can talk".

Also if Dudley is traded now, with Barnes still out, and Redick out, what in the world does the SG/SF rotation look like:

SG: Green / Crawford

SF: Bullock / No Backup

Yea, I think we'll just have to live with it for now and re-assess in the future.

The player we've seen certainly does not look much like this guy, the hustle, the grit, just isn't there:

I can't even imagine him forcing the opposition into a turnover right now, lol

jarca
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Dudley isn't filling out the small forward position. You think he is?

Dudley has been a dud so far.

Barnes had been awful and hurt.

Redick is hurt.

There's your 14 mil. Is that money well spent.

Meanwhile Deng hasn't missed a game and plays over 36 minutes.

Who's getting the better value thus far?

jarca
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If you take the first 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter, it will be clear as daylight that Dudley is the better SF.

Voyeur
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A little unfair to criticize the value of Redick because of this fluke injury he received. He's actually been fairly durable over his career. He just usually doesn't have to play Demarcus Cousins more than 2 times a year. lol

Seriously, I've been ecstatic with what JJ's done for us so far. Sucks that he's out now. As far as Dudley...I don't know what to say about him so far.

tense2
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^Well if you take it on face value, per all reports he's trying to play though an injury. How much it's affecting his sub par play so far no one really knows for sure.

Agent0
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jarca wrote:
Dudley isn't filling out the small forward position. You think he is?

Dudley has been a dud so far.

Barnes had been awful and hurt.

Redick is hurt.

There's your 14 mil. Is that money well spent.

Meanwhile Deng hasn't missed a game and plays over 36 minutes.

Who's getting the better value thus far?

Seriously? That's your argument? In the off-season, who was predicting that Dudley would have tendonitis and play his worst basketball since basically his rookie year?

That the last two seasons:

Barnes: 80/82 games, 63/66 games

Redick: 78/82 games, 65/66 games

Dudley: 79/82 games, 65/66 games

So your argument is that because they are injured this year, that now means that Deng (75/82 and 54/66 last two seasons) would have been a better option? The argument in general makes no sense, but really though? Seriously? Seriously? wall

Deng has played 85% of his possible games. Dudley for his career btw 467/494 possible games (94.5%), and I don't even know if any of his missed games as a rookie was due to injury or just DNP.

I guess the Warriors were also stupid to think Iguodala who played 80/82, 62/66 games the past two seasons 82/82 games for 5 of his first 6 seasons, 76 in the year he didn't, and only one injured season with 67/82 games was a durable player.

They should have done a sign and trade for Deng since Iguodala is injured now and Deng is still healthy, idiots!

Talk about grasping at straws, lol

jarca wrote:

If you take the first 2 minutes of the 1st and 3rd quarter, it will be clear as daylight that Dudley is the better SF.

Don't forget to kick that strawman in the groin too Wink

DocHollywood
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Barnes and Bullock should soon be able to cover sf minutes for us until Dudley recovers. I'm confident enough in Reggie to have him play some real minutes if it means we can get Dudley back performing at a high level sooner. We should not trade Dudley or any player while they're injured and their value is down. I look at Dudley's prior seasons and am 100% convinced he will eventually be a real asset to this team.

jarca
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For the record, I was always against the trade that landed Redick and Dudley. You can ask CF86. I thought from watching their games that they would have a hard time fitting in defensively. We needed length and rebounding but those two provide neither.

Yea, I am going to use Dudley with "tendinitis" and the others being unhealthy as an argument. Why not? That's part of the value Deng brings which is coming in superb shape. Redick, I can understand since it happened on the court. But Dudley came into the season hurt with tendinitis which may have been caused of his weight. Barnes when returning from in injury in the preseason was having a hard time finding his place in the half court offense. Who couldn't have seen that coming? Barnes mostly gets his points on fast break. Take aways Bledsoe and Barnes full court press and there goes his points.

Dudley came from a lottery team with a stat friendly system. Maybe it's not the tendinitis. Maybe he's just coming back down to earth just like Gomes whom a lot of forum members loved when signed. Same situation. Lousy team, stats look good, but looks terrible when inserted a contender.

Yes, the Warriors were idiots signing Iguadala. Instead of growing the trio of Barnes, Curry, and Thomson, they decided to be impatient and be repetitive with Iguadala. They should have found a way to move the defensive weakling in David Lee

Kingkanyon
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I just read this article.

By Broderick Turner

November 25, 2013, 6:27 p.m.

Clippers forward Jared Dudley said he got a platelet-rich plasma injection to help alleviate the painful tendinitis in his right knee.

The procedure, known as PRP, takes a sample of the patient's blood and spins it in a centrifuge for 15 minutes. It is then injected to accelerate tissue repair.

Though he's hurting, Dudley hasn't missed any of the Clippers' 15 games. He is averaging 8.4 points per game on 48% shooting, with 38.5% (20 for 52) on three-pointers. He's playing 27 minutes per game.

"I'm definitely not where I want to be," Dudley said Sunday. "I really feel it more laterally moving and sometimes in the second half of games trying to bend my knee."

But Dudley knows he is needed at the small forward position because backup Matt Barnes is out because of retina surgery on his left eye.

"My whole thing was that if I couldn't hurt the team, I was going to try to keep playing," Dudley said. "I knew Matt was hurt. At times it has been tough. Other times I felt good. So, it's up and down."

Bullock takes charge

The Clippers came out of a timeout Thursday when rookie small forward Reggie Bullock looked at Dudley and waved him off from guarding Oklahoma City All-Star forward Kevin Durant, one of the NBA's best players.

It showed that Bullock was willing to take on the challenge of trying to defend Durant when the Clippers played at Oklahoma City.

Clippers Coach Doc Rivers recalled that moment and said he thought Bullock either really likes a challenge or "he's not very smart.

"He should have said, 'Dudley, you take Durant.' That's what I would have done," Rivers said, laughing. "I don't know if I was happy with that decision by either one of them. But, he [Bullock] is not going to back down."

At 6 feet 7, Bullock has the ability to be a very good defender because of his length and quick feet, Rivers said.

Rivers also noted that players from big-time university basketball programs - Bullock attended North Carolina - usually have been "in huge games" and the "lights don't scare them."

With Barnes sidelined, Bullock is getting more playing time. He has played in 11 games and is averaging 8.5 minutes per game.

"I think Reggie is going to be a really good defender in our league," Rivers said. "He's gotten hurt a couple of times. He gets lost with the runners - chasing any of those guys is no fun for anybody. But he's going to be a really good defender that can shoot. And that's valuable in our league."

Etc.

The Clippers didn't practice Monday but will return to practice Tuesday. They play the New York Knicks at Staples Center on Wednesday night.

Case in Point.

He's Hurt, Obviously we all can see that, but He is still Shooting good percentages, yes he gets beat sometimes on D, but most times than not, he's playing Solid D. I don't know why people are all over him, it's not like were hurting for offense, we are ranked 2nd in the league, And our Defensive Ranking is getting better with every game, this whole subject is stupid.

Agent0
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I know you didn't like the trade, but I remember it being more because you didn't like Redick.

Before LAC: Dudley 95% of ~470-480 games, also averaged 27 MPG last 4 years on a top 10 pace team, guarding opposing better wings, and no durability injury or injury due to bad shape.

Is it consistent with that to anticipate that he would have an injury issue due to durability?

Tendonitis is an injury from overuse. Weight can have an effect on certain injuries, but I haven't heard anything specific about tendonitis being due to weight. It's one of those "may increase the risk" things, but it certainly wouldn't "cause" it.

Phoenix record in seasons Dudley was there: 46-36 54-28 (WCF) 40-42 33-33 25-57


198-196 (.503)

Is that what we mean when we say a player plays on a "lottery team" in the sense of being a team that isn't looking to win?

Was Dudley playing losing or bad basketball that wouldn't translate to a good team even though he played 24 MPG on a WCF team?

Statistic: playoffs or no playoffs, lottery or no lottery. Can I just characterize players based on whether their team was lottery or not and not watch them play? Is that even a good stat to judge players? Is that accurate?

Is a 20-62 team really the same as a 42-40 team just because they both don't make the playoffs? Do players on a 39-43 playoff team play better winning basketball than players on a 46-36 9th place team?

Gomes wasn't that good his last two seasons with Minnesota if we are honest. One of the things that helped him was that he played a decent chunk of PF, but as a Clipper is was almost exclusively a SF. Minnesota didn't make it to 25 wins in any of his seasons there. Phoenix was a .500 team in Dudley's time there, over .500 until last season.

Your reasoning about the Warriors signing Iguodala is fine and all, but that has nothing to do with the discussion about assessing a players durability and that Warriors making a bad signing because Iguodala got injured. That's a whole different discussion whether they made a good decision based on personnel. He I'm talking about based on durability, that was quite clear.

...about Barnes struggling with half-court, this team is playing with more pace this year than they did last year or any previous year, Redick is getting run out opportunities for crying out loud. Barnes cuts well in half-court and is a useful spot up shooter. Barnes has played and succeeded on many different teams with different systems. I don't get how you talk about watching games so much and then paint these wide brushes. Also relating to Dudley, he's playing at a pace (8th) similar to Phoenix (4th, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th) and in an offense by the same coach he had in Phoenix, so saying the system is the problem is weird.

CP3Heliflopter
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I don't see how you can attribute someone having a career low in rebounds per game(basically cut in half from his averages), noticeably slower lateral quickness and a career low in steals per game to "being on a better team".

Not to mention that isn't even true he was on some good Suns teams. He was on the 2010 team that made it to the WCFs(further than the Clippers have ever went) and he performed quite well.

Its really unfortunate that Barnes isn't healthy. If he was Dudley would have time to rest and get back to 100%.

Dudley isn't a lockdown defender even when healthy. He is average to be honest but he normally doesn't get torched unless he is against an athletic wing. Right now his mobility is far worse than normal which is why he is struggling at everything that is not related to shooting.

Dudley is what he is. He is an average defender but also a hyper efficient shooter on a very good contract.

clipper*joe
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Weekend warriors (folks who engage in high-intensity activities such as running or basketball on the weekend but do little to maintain conditioning during the week) often develop tendinitis in the knees. Simply being overweight can also contribute to knee tendinitis. Age is another risk factor. Over time, tendons become less flexible and the involved muscles lose strength, both of which further stress the tendons. Inflexible hamstring and quadricep muscles make you more susceptible as well.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbea ... n-the-knee

Knowing this, one can surmise that conditioning or lack of could have caused the condition. It was the off-season/training camp/preseason when it occurred. Not being in good shape and not taking care of yourself when you come into camp could have been a factor. Just say'n.

CP3Heliflopter
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The thing is Dudley listed weight is 225 which is good for a 6'7 SF. Kawhi Leonard in comparison is 230 and is the same height. Just because you look a bit fat doesn't mean you are fat.

I look skinny for example even though I am a bit overweight. In comparison my cousin who is of average weight looks fat.

It definitely could be a factor but we don't know if that played a role in Dudley getting tendonitis. Its speculation.

clipper*joe
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It SURE does seem like it based on the link I gave. Sure it's speculation but Dudley sure isn't a prime example of a fit person. Notice i didn't say overweight. And keep in mind that he has taken better care of himself enough for the Suns fans to take notice.

Kingkanyon
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Allen Iverson got knee Tendinitis toward the end of his carer and often had knee problems throughout it. What's the point here, everybody gets it, Weight don't help it, but I don't think it's a major factor to getting it, You try running up and down, cutting, jump 82 games a year plus the post season for 7 to 8 years. Till than don't say his Weight is causing him problems. The guy has been the same weight for the better part of his carer, this is a joke. Over weight is like Glen Davis, Dudley is average at best.

clipper*joe
CTB MVP Champion
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Posts: 16146
Location: los angeles
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votes: 129

First of all, Iverson had arthritis in his left knee, not tendinitis. Second of all, his usage was far greater than Dudley's. Thirdly, his position and the way he played was more strenuous on his body but most importantly, your diagnosis is wrong. They didn't have the same thing and not everyone gets tendinitis. I also am one of those that doesn't think he's overweight. I think he's one of those that is soft outside. I don't care what body type he is or what disposition he's in, anyone can build a body up to the way they please.

Dudley doesn't have a typical wing body and his position requires you to have one. Does that mean he's not dedicated to his craft? Frack no. I think he's a dedicated player who concentrates more on the art of basketball, and less on fitness.

by the way, Big baby's position and center position traditionally required you to be big in ever sense of the word but in today's game, it's more about athleticism so point taken.

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8302

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votes: 38

He played in Phoenix where they have top notch medical stuff and a style of play where they want to keep the game in a faster pace meaning less fouls and less defense. Even Shaq in his late career somewhat revived his inury prone body in phoenix.

You forgot that Dudley also rotates to the PF spot in Phoenix like Gomes did in Minnesota.

No not all lottery teams are the same but on the last 20 games, i think you would even agree that players/coaching stop trying to win. Players more so starts to look to pad their stats.

Barnes had a horrible half year with the Lakers. He's usually brought in as a bruiser/defender. Yes you're right he is a slasher on the half court setting but he's at his best running the floor NOT being a spot up shooter.

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4961
votes: 38

This is a little skewed info though. The first year he played there the suns went 46-36 and he played 48 games and only averaged 5.5 PPG 3 RPG 0.8 APG, and 15 mpg (not a big contributor) The 2nd year, they had a record of 54 -28 and he averaged 24.5 mpg, 8.2 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.4 APG and he only started 1 game. He is definitely contributing at that point but not a huge part of the team just based on the raw stats. In the playoffs his numbers dipped a little bit while his minutes stayed the same.

Then the team was basically fighting to be .500 and his final and best year fighting to not be worst int he west. So really he was on 1 and 1/2 playoff seasons with the suns and the bulk of his minutes and stats were on teams that didn't break .500

One thing that is alarming about his numbers was the more minutes he got how little his rebounding and assisting increased. His shooting % is very good that has been consistent throughout his career. It's interesting though how few shot attempts which brings in the criticism that he is mainly a wide open jumper shooter and struggles to create off the dribble or even to score when contested (instead of a shot attempt he will pass off the ball but still has a very low assist average). The other problem with his game is his ft shooting % of 74% is very low for an "elite shooter. His defense although some may call it "crafty" is nothing to write home about.

What that brings me to is the conclusion that he really isn't such a great under prices contract but a fair contract if he performs at those #s from last year if he doesn't perform at those #s from last year he really does look like Ryan Gomes. Which is crazy because both their contracts paid $4mm per year.

Also if his injury continues to plague him all season and and he continues to play poorly or he has to miss an extended period of time the. Yes it would be a bad acquisition. Just because it didn't seem significant AT&T the time this injury is having a significant impact and either our training staff didn't do a very good physical or they didn't think it would matter.

For those who say it doesn't matter because no one knew this would happen then yes it's unfortunate if this truly as unforeseen but just like if you bought a used car for $10k and find out you need to put $4k into it a month after buying you would say that was a bad purchase even though it was unforeseen. With hindsight you can look back and say that. 20 games deep Dudley is looking like a bad acquisition. It could change and I hope it does but even if it does his best stats really aren't that great and really shouldn't be taking significant minutes in favor of a player with actual upside and better defensive instincts and athleticism in Reggie Bullock.

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