Jared Dudley Performance Discussion Thread (P. 14)

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clipperboy24
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Yeah I know. If its not on spread sheet it doesn't make sense to you?

jarca
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I think agent is one of the posters who criticized me for wanting Afflalo and a filler for Ebled and butler instead of Dudley and Redick.

clipperboy24
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Hey just because Afflalo is averaging 21ppg 4 and 4 shooting great % and is an outstanding defender he still is waiting to impose and would have been a horrible pickup Wink. This is coming from the people who are going to be waiting all year for Dudley to turn into a stud even though he never has been his whole career.

We would have gotten Nicholson, and a 1st rounder. Too bad.

jarca
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They're willing to wait for Dudley to blow up from 8 points a game to 10 points a game lol but doesn't want to develop Afflalo's potential.

Agent0
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...and what was my criticism of Afflalo? Cause Afflalo certainly "looks good on the spreadsheet" in the role he would play on the Clippers which would be similar to what he did on Denver.

I said I didn't like how he responded to greater defensive pressure in the post-season. His shooting wasn't coming as easily and he wasn't able to effectively manufacture shots for himself. What does that have to do with stats because the advanced stats were all positive for Orlando.

So you are criticizing a statistical analysis by saying that I didn't prefer a certain player despite the statistics looking very favorable for him? Lol, okay?

The other problem I had was that in Denver they were saying that as he tried to expand his offense his defense had regressed. The same thing was evident in Orlando as he tried to create more and not only was his defense not as good, he wasn't showing effective ability to be a shot creator last season in Orlando. This meant that unless he showed better ability, on a good team he wouldn't be given the role to create because there would be better creators.

So what is the argument you guys are now using for Afflalo. "Well look at his 21/4/4 this year on a bad team". So, "the spreadsheet". The inconsistency, selectiveness and flip flopping you do with statistics is such intellectual dishonesty, there's no need for all that.

Also Orlando wasn't going to give Nicholson, 1st rounder and Afflalo for Bled and Butler, that was never an actual offer. Orlando fans didn't even think Bledsoe for Nicholson straight up was worth it.

...but hey, let's just make stuff up.

jarca
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Oh you like Afflalo. That's news to me!

Agent0
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This is you after the trade:

    jarca: F@ck reddick! Yes dudley

    jarca: True but I think the real price is Jared Dudley. We basically addressed our 2 weakest position in the starting line up

About Redick:

jarca wrote:
Reddick to me is a poor man belinelli who doesn't play defense

Hmm...

Now you are making in seem like you never liked the move, didn't think Dudley would fit, always though he was bad? I mean come on man.

I understand being disappointed in his play, who isn't? Everyone is, but acting like you expected him to be bad or didn't like the move because he's been poor is just dishonest.

Also, who were at the top of the list of the biggest proponents for Bledsoe starting at SG? Me and tense2

Quote:
Oh you like Afflalo. That's news to me!
I never said I disliked Afflalo. Not wanting to trade Bledsoe for him and arguing why doesn't mean I dislike him in a vacuum. If we were trading Caron + 25th for Afflalo I wouldn't even had flinched about that trade.

You have to remember that my comments were also related to wanting to keep Bledsoe. For example I didn't want Bledsoe traded for Redick alone if that was going to happen because there was a rumor about that.

The rumors were Afflalo for Bledsoe + Caron, no pick, no other player. I didn't want Afflalo for Bledsoe + Caron alone because I believed it was better to keep Bledsoe move Butler in another trade with a pick swap. The main one I was thinking of was Ariza who is a better defender than Afflalo and a very good corner 3PT shooter.

That scenario meant still getting the defensive wing AND keeping Bledsoe. I said it then as I say now that Afflalo's defense went to just average to above average after he started doing more on offense in Denver.

I also wasn't impressed by Afflalo in the playoffs. If it was a trade bringing more than just Afflalo, that's a different situation. The numbers supported Afflalo as a good trade, but I watched him in the playoffs and didn't like what I saw.

When have you known me to have some one tracked closed view on any player? (except Mullens). I'll always say here are the positives, here are the negatives.

I preferred Dudley and Redick because it brought in two players are two of the teams weakest positions. With Redick, I said "depending on the contract". The starting lineup is miles better defensively than last season, that's Doc, that's part the players, even with Dudley sucking. All the bench defense is gone though. If the bench could defend like last season, the Clippers would be a top 5 defense.

jarca
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I already said Redick fared better. I already said I should have known Dudley would be like this coming from a terrible team like Gomes. Doesn't change the fact that I thought the trade was terrible

CP3Heliflopter
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God I hope you mean Billups pre-Achilles and even then he played like what 20-30 games? He was not a solid defender at that anyway. He was slow due to age. Redick is a better defender.

Agent0
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So shouldn't you also know Afflalo should be bad coming from a terrible team like Orlando?

He was on a fast paced scoring team with Karl that could theoretically inflate numbers (see McGee, right?), and now he's putting up numbers on a bad team. Sound familiar?

So in the end what point are you even trying to make? So why did you think Dudley was good in the first place then? Solely numbers or did you watch him? If you watched him, then what kind of team he was on would be irrelevant because you should have been able to see the issues in his game that wouldn't fit on a good team if you were properly analyzing what you were watching.

Why did you think Redick was bad, yet he's fit well? Was it from watching him or from looking at his height and numbers? Why did you think Redick couldn't compete on defense, was it from watching him?

CP3Heliflopter
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Actually Willie has been crap with or without playing with Dudley which is bizarre since I always remember him being a consistent player. EVENTUALLY he will have to get out of this slump. He has never been THIS bad not even close. This is also Dudley's worst season by far.

Basically both of our wings are having career lows and having a bad case of ilovebrickingopenshots which has led to poor results for the Clippers.

jarca
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1) if you don't see the difference between Dudley a career best 10 points on a bad team and Afflalo's number on Denver then idk what else to say. Is there any point in Dudley or Redick career where you say wow, this guy can score 20+ a game.

2) Never like the trade but I was more mad with Redick. We just came off the Memphis series that tony Allen, poindexter, and bayless literally bullied Billups and Jamal. I thought Redick wasn't the answer defensively. I already said we lost defensively not offensively. Having a guy like Afflalo who wasn't having a career year at Orlando shooting the ball wasn't a big deal for me since I knew he was going to improve his shooting percentage like Randy Foye did. His pros on the defensive end and strength and length to defend was too much of a positive.

  1. I like Dudley's outside game but I mentioned it before we could have easily gotten a sole outside shooter for cheap like belinelli and I believe I mentioned delfino.

  2. Dudley's game tonight really energized you huh lol

clipperboy24
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That's offensive you would even think I was referring to post Achilles explosion billups. He was never the same player after that injury. But he was a better defender pre injury than Redick is.

Agent0
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Guess you missed me being facetious there, but that's okay, lol

I was joking about Afflalo being bad if you missed that. Yes there have been times in Redick's career where one would say that, last season with Orlando was one such time actually.

Belinelli sucks, he's a backup SG at best. I also liked Delfino, but he signed for $3.25M, got injured in the post-season and is out for who knows how long. Dudley makes like $1M more, not saving anything there.

Every dog has it's day, Dudley playing good in one game means nothing. Talk to me when he plays well over a span of 10-15 games.

CP3Heliflopter
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Debatable. At best the gap was pretty small. He played like 20 games here before getting injured. I did see him play on the Knicks as well so I did get to see him play for about 40 or so games.

His defense was solid just like Redick's defense. A bit slow and less athletic but he was smart on D and put in the effort similar to Redick. Of course he was easily better in his prime but at the age of 34-35 not so much.

pageC4
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I wonder what could have been that first year with Billups, Paul, Griffin, and co. Billups lived up to the moniker "Mr. Bigshot" that year. After that injury we just didn't have the shooting we needed, and Nick Young didn't bring replace that. I wonder if I'm mistaken but didn't we beat San Antonio twice that year? Once here and once over in there house? That was such a team with potential

Voyeur
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God I'll be glad when JJ gets back and the team's offense starts really clicking again...only with the improved defense. Maybe we can put to rest all this stuff. Hopefully, he'll be able to shoot right away after the healing.

Thank goodness Jared had a good game. Is it too much to hope he can now start to hit some open jumpers?

I'm glad we're finally off this crazy road trip. It'll be nice to see our injured dudes at least sitting on the bench cheering the team on.

ClippersDA
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I hope this was a sign of a new Dudley and not an aberration like the bulls game. Anyone know when Redick is back? Miss that guy.

Kingkanyon
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I'm pulling for Dudley, I know how good he is I've followed his game from BC to the Bobcats, to the Suns. He looked like he was moving better this game as opposed to previous games were he looked like he was going to fall every time he cut hard, still got blown by, by John Wall but he's been doing that to just about everybody, even got CP and Blake a few times. If he can give us about 12 to 15 a night that'll be perfect, thought he played the best game of his season, I know he scored more in Chicago, but most of those were from three, were as tonight he scored from all over, not to mention he held Ariza to 11 point's on the night.

CP3Heliflopter
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Quote:
Jared Dudley ‏@JaredDudley619 12 Dec

I just have to apologize to all clipper fans by my play this season! I been playing like s****. It's been downright embarrassing!

Quote:
Jared Dudley ‏@JaredDudley619 12 Dec

I will continue to stay in the gym and make the necessary adjustments.. I will play better, just going through a tough stretch.

Nice to see he kept his word. At least he owns up to the fact that he has been terrible and puts the effort to play better.

Akclipps
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Jared Deadly for three!!! Wooooo!

ohMEohMy!
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Dudley played great on both ends today.

Voyeur
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If Jared's shot is truly back...now imagine when JJ comes back and (hopefully) is able to do his thing. Jamal does what he does best off the bench...

...sky's the limit!

CP3Heliflopter
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^If that happened all we need is a backup big that can play D and were set. A non-druggy Lamar Odom type of player.

CapsNClips
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Heeeee's BAAAAACK!!

jarca
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Good job JDud! Please don't rush back Redick. I want to see more of this Jamal experiment in the starting line up. Jcross penetration gives us another creator besides CP

Voyeur
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Oh yeah...well, hurry up, Redick. I want to see how you guys play when Dudley is actually HITTING his shots! LOL

fullcourt
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I'm glad Dudley is playing better he is being served up a feast so I'm glad he is starting to take advantage

We got exactly what we want and this is the way Blake and CP should play every game

Blake in the post attacking every chance he gets

CP attacking Parker every chance he gets

Dudley running along the baseline running to the open spots

Pop put Leonard on Crawford which all but assures single coverage for CP with Parker on him. He didn't want to double team Blake and leave Dudley or Crawford open either. This is how we should attack every game from here on out.

ClippersDA
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Dudley looked great and free. Now if only collison could tweet about how his play has been sub par - maybe that will work wonders on him too. Happy for Dudley. Very active defensively.

CapsNClips
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Maybe that's the secret. Let all your steam out on twitter and you will be free'd to play your game correctly.

In the case of Mullens he's gonna have to send out an Emergency Broadcast System Alert.

ClipperB23
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Jared has stepped it up big time the past few games, JD for 3, BINGO!!!!

Kingkanyon
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I knew Dudley would get through this rough stretch (I think I've been saying that LOL), happy to see him striving right now, he's played well every game since making his statement, got's to love that.

So much for the Out of shape theory, he look like he's moving better, his knee must be feeling better, everybody knows shooters need their legs to shoot.

Silasie
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Really glad for JD and with JJ out we really could do with his production. It will be interesting to see how he does from here on out. Keep it up Jared.

jarca
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Last night against the Nuggets JDud went 3-8 scoring 9 points, 2 rebound, and 1 assist. These are the type of "bad game" I wouldn't mind seeing in Dudley. He played his role by spotting up for a shot and not trying to be a play maker.

Kingkanyon
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Not to mention he rendered Wilson Chandler useless in the 2nd Half, held him to 0.

CapsNClips
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I really liked this article about J Dudley and how he got out of his slump. I love this teams chemistry.


LOS ANGELES Jared Dudley's shooting slump ended in the Nation's Capital.

Obviously, Dudley, who has made 13 3-pointers in the past four games, snapped out of a six-game malaise on the court back then, making seven of his 10 shots and scoring 16 points. According to Blake Griffin, though, it was something that happened in the team's film session at shootaround that may have served as a catalyst.

The team gathered near the edge of the court at Verizon Center to watch clips of the previous game against Brooklyn. A possession was shown of Dudley, who at the time was shooting worse than 20 percent from 3-point range, passing up an open shot. Head Coach Doc Rivers paused the film, and, in front of the entire team, said, "Jared, you've got to keep shooting the ball, keep shooting the ball. You're too good of a shooter it's going to go in."

And they have been since.

"After that he's just been on fire," said Griffin, who relayed the story about the shootaround film session after the Clippers knocked off the Denver Nuggets, 112-91, Saturday. "It's cool to see something like that your coach put his faith in somebody and he came through in a big way in the last four games."

Dudley has gone 13-for-23 (56.5 percent) from 3-point range since the Wizards game, helping revive a Clippers offense that has scored at least 108 points in each of their last four, all wins.

"He was missing open shots," Rivers said. "Now, he's making open shots. We're all human. There are few who it doesn't faze at all, missed shots. But with most people, it does. Jared started missing shots, and I don't know if he was thinking about it, but it went on about three games or six games. Now, he's making them again."

Dudley is a career 40-percent shooter from distance. So, in some ways it was merely inevitable that he would get his shot corrected eventually. It was made more difficult, however, by an ornery case of tendinitis in his right knee.

Rivers posited that Dudley's struggles may have been partially related to his balky knee.

"I do think some of it is the health," Rivers said. "I think he's feeling better, and I think that helps him. But, he's still not 100 percent. I don't know how he can become that. We have a four-day break in January coming up so maybe that'll help. He is getting better. Hopefully, the healthier he gets, the better he shoots."

The way he has gone in the last week, it may be hard to shoot any better. But if the slump reemerges, perhaps all he'll need to bust back out of it is another film-session reminder.

clipperAndrew
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With Crawford in the starting line up, Collison is averaging almost 11 points per game.

Voyeur
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Did you mean to put this in the JJ/Jamal thread?

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't see the quote above. It would help if I read these things while OFF the phone. lol

Icecoldclipper
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This. Dudley played better as the game went on and turned up the defense. We have won games before with Dudley having a off shooting night but his overall game would also suffer. Dud seemed to flow in later and it was an odd offensive night for everyone really outside of Blake, Jamal, Barnes, and Collison.

clipperAndrew
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lol it's cool But actually I am a believer of if "it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Until this team falters with Crawford in the starting line up don't move him to the bench when JJ comes back. I loveeeee JJ but think he would do amazing in the 2nd unit as well. He will let Collison run the offense and make open shots.

When Willie was in the staring line up last year we were awesome, then Billups came back and we were bleh.

But yea this should be in that thread but just stating it here to answer your initial question haha.

CP3Heliflopter
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Dudley was a bit off tonight but he had 4 steals and made a crucial 3 when we needed it most. Good game by Dudley.

CapsNClips
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Carmelo Anthony?? Bitch please, we already have the leagues best pudgy SF.....JARRRRRED DUDLEEEEY!!!!

ClipperB23
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I love the emotion Dudley showed when he hit that huge 3 tonight. What a game.

jerdogthompson
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I'm going to go out on a limb and state I was one of the very few from early on that stuck behind Duds despite him playing like s**t in just about every game up until the CHI game. Even though I wasn't pleased I merely said he would eventually come around.

Did he have a banner game last night?NO

Did he miss some open 3's?YES

Did he hit the 3 when it counted the most?YES

Look, I'm convinced come March/April when games really start to matter you will be witnessing a top 3 offensive/defensive team in the Clippers. It kills me to see all the posts calling for trades when a player goes through a slump. Either the people posting those comments just arrived or the expectation is for Rome to be built overnight.

Either way I'm firmly entrenched in the belief Doc has this team headed in the right direction. Look, any NBA coach will tell you the "Clippers are very athletic". However, we lacked discipline & defensive prowess. Last night the Clippers showed me both attributes. Far as I can tell, the Clippers are truly making hay while the sun is shining.

#InDocwetrust

Agent0
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It's true, players can't just be traded at every sign of a slump, it's too reactionary. If guys have a proven history, generally one needs to have some trust in them. Ray Allen had this interesting month of November in 2009:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/ ... /ray-allen

Yes, you read right, 4 3PA, 14 games, 25% 3PT shooting from Ray Allen. From November till the end of January that year, he shot 32.8% 3PT on 4.8 attempts. That was bad shooting for 42 games! For the rest of the season after January, he shot 39.2% and then 38.6% in the playoffs.

clipper*joe
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using arguably the best shooter of all-time as an example to compare a career role player to is not a point I would make. Players like Allen are almost entitled to go unquestioned during those time while a role player making less than the mid-level has to be looked at closer...especially when it's just not his shooting that is lacking. His defense has been atrocious too. Looking at Dudley's body of work thus far and questioning his role on this team is not reactionary. Playing a armchair GM is not reactionary, it's just a fan being a fan. lol

ohMEohMy!
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going to chime in and give props to Duds for his OT defense. Once Blake fouled out, he came in and did an admirable job of fronting Love, bodying him up, and forcing the Wolves to look elsewhere.

jarca
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Dudley is our danny Green. He can struggle shooting as long as he plays defense and rebound I wouldn't care. Notice how Pop limits Green dribbling. I think Doc is doing same tying with Dudley

Agent0
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What? That's the best example because if a great shooter like Allen can have a slump, then a mediocre player like Dudley is easily capable of doing so also. Allen has a better body of work to have faith he will go back to shooting well, but NBA wise, Dudley's body of work is sufficient. I'm not sure we've seen a player shoot at a high level from outside for as long as Dudley has then just suck without circumstances like injury that is.

For example Dorell Wright I think had a similar situation a couple of seasons ago, but he had enough of a sample size that one couldn't think he would just become a bad shooter. Checked, it was 11-12, his second season in Golden State, he shot 25.5% from 3 for the first 12 games of the season.

Does being a role player and your contract amount really have any implication on whether you can shoot or not though? Seems like such a trivial thing.

Also it's not like it was prime Ray Allen, though prime Ray Allen, well closer to prime had his terrible shooting slump in the first three rounds of the 2008 playoffs. It was 35 year old Ray Allen, and you bet Boston fans were questioning him during that time as to whether he had finally started to show signs of falling off.

Of course the actual point is missed when we are focusing on comparing player caliber, which is that even the best of shooters (ie: Allen) can go through miserable shooting slumps. So if a Allen can have a long shooting slump, then how much more possible is it for an inferior player like Dudley to have the same, especially while ailing from injury and struggling in basically every aspect of his game.

...and yes, Dudley was struggling with more than just shooting, but that wasn't what I was talking about, I was talking about his shooting struggles.

Like Doc said:

"I do think some of it is the health," Rivers said. "I think he's feeling better, and I think that helps him. But, he's still not 100 percent. I don't know how he can become that. We have a four-day break in January coming up so maybe that'll help. He is getting better. Hopefully, the healthier he gets, the better he shoots."

clipperboy24
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^^^ I don't know why you are surprised at CJ questioning the Dudley to ray Allen comparison. How has his career warranted that comparison? even though he shoots 40% for his career he makes makes 1.0 3pt shots per game on average for his career. Or if you want to say he was never a real 3pt shooter until Phoenix even since then he is only averaging 1.3 makes per game which isn't even top 50 over the last 5 years. Sorry but that is not an elite 3 point shooter so it seems unreasonable to compare him to an elite 3 pt shooter. Even at 40% he wouldn't even be top 50 in the league for shooters who average at least 1 3pt attempt per game.

Unfortunately it seems like we got damaged goods and he will probably pepper Ina few good games to keep enough people supporting him even amongst the horrible games. Sounds exactly like Ryan Gomes 2.0. Jarca nailed that comparison.

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