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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414934by Clippersfan86 » Nov 17, 2013 - 01:21 PM PST
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Lately we are seeing what needed to happen for us to really get to the next level. Blake Griffin becoming THE man of the team and the best player. The last 6 games or so he's attacked from opening tip AND he's scoring in the 4th quarter at a good clip. I know it's a small sample and can change but I hope it continues because it's been beautiful to see.

At the same time it sucks that CP3 has been a no show scoring/shooting lately.



                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414935by Voyeur » Nov 17, 2013 - 01:27 PM PST
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BG is my favorite player, I've made no bones about it. Frankly, I thought he was the most consistent Clipper last year even though some of his numbers were slightly down. Still, when CP3 is ON, he makes this team special. Notice the ease at which we beat Golden State and Houston at home. It's because Paul was active, engaged and making shots...to go along with Blake's consistency and JJ's addition. Not that we want Paul to get 42 points, but the aggressiveness made us downright impossible to beat.

With Blake doing his thing, we know we CAN win. But with Blake and CP3 doing their thing at the same time, we know we WILL win!

Having said that, BG is playing the best I've ever seen him play!

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414937by Clippersfan86 » Nov 17, 2013 - 01:40 PM PST
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Agree. If both CP3 and Blake are on we are nearly unbeatable.

                
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clipperboy24
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414939by clipperboy24 » Nov 17, 2013 - 01:58 PM PST
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He really is looking great. I love that his defense has been coming together too. He is demonstrating how much we need him to dominate

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414940by CapsNClips » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:05 PM PST
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Blake Griffin is the engine that drives this ship, Chris Paul is the Captain, DeAndre is the exterior that protects us and J.J., Dudley, Crawford, Barnes...etc are the spark plugs. All are extremely important in getting us to our destination.

I personally think Blake is our best player. He's proven this year that he can score on and defend the best players in the world. He's also a FANTASTIC facilitator and rebounder.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414941by Voyeur » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:08 PM PST
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I feel like he's played so well and we're so high on him right now, he may be due for an awful game against Memphis. lol

I hope not, we must pay them back...not just for the playoff loss, but for all the "soft" crap being talked about long after.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414944by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:34 PM PST
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He has been playing better than Paul the past 5 or so games. Hopefully he will continue to play like this. It will be interesting to see how he does against Memphis but Memphis this season has been looking pretty mediocre.

I am guessing its due to coaching change but they don't seem to be the grit and grind team they were before(they are actually a bad defensive team right now!). I am not even sure they will make the playoffs this season. Bad idea to fire Hollins. He was a good coach.

However, I have a feeling Memphis is going to get up for this game simply because its against us. They are gonna be coming off a back to back but I am not sure how much that matters considered we struggled against a Nets team with most of their starters out coming off a back to back.

We need a game where we just lock the other team down with our defense. We haven't had a game like that yet.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414947by Voyeur » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:41 PM PST
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Yeah I can't believe they got rid of Hollins. Same goes for Denver and Karl.

BG has a shot of making Western Conference Player of the Week. Leading his team to 3 wins with numbers: 25.7 points, 56%, 11.3 rebounds, 4.7 assists. Only problem is Kevin Love. lol

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414949by Silasie » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:43 PM PST
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Two things people have been asking for are happening this season and in simple terms that is for BG and DJ to step up to the plate. Things are looking up.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 414951by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:50 PM PST
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Karl really overachieved with the Nuggets. Not sure why they fired him. Sure they loss in the first round but they loss their best player in Gallo and the Warriors were frankly the more talented team.

Also Iggy was not a good acquisition for them since Iggy fits a slow half court game not the ultra fast pace Nuggets. I heard Iggy's agent actually talked to the Warriors during that series and now he is playing on the GSWs which is honestly the perfect fit.... lol

Yea the player of the week award will be between BG and Love. I think BG wins it or at least he should since we won all our games this week so far.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414952by Voyeur » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:52 PM PST
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^ Hope so, that would be great to see! I know he won that once last season too. I can't believe he didn't win it at least once his first 2 seasons.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414953by Voyeur » Nov 17, 2013 - 02:59 PM PST
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Just checked...looks like Lin or Harden have a decent shot at the award also...but they did have one loss during the week.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414959by ClipperPostman » Nov 17, 2013 - 04:28 PM PST
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Paul's job really isn't to score. As long as paul gets double digit assists and we win he had a good game in my eyes.

Anyone who is asking their point guard to run the show, get everyone involved, get assists, and shoot great every night is destin for failure.

You judge PG's by the Assist column. Which is why players like ricky rubio who can't shoot a link are considered really good PG's.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 414961by Silasie » Nov 17, 2013 - 04:43 PM PST
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Agreed.

But in addition to this if we are playing a really good team CP going into hyper aggressive mode and scoring lots make us a hard team to beat. Mainly he does seem to be able to turn this on and off at will, so its all good.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 414962by ClipperPostman » Nov 17, 2013 - 04:52 PM PST
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Agreed. When paul is on as a scorer we are unbeatable in my eyes.

That's the icing on the cake.

But just like last game 1/10 then comes down and hits the 2 biggest shots in the game. A 3 pointer and a 15 footer.

Clutch also has to be factored in. Down the stretch he has been phenomenal.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414963by Silasie » Nov 17, 2013 - 04:57 PM PST
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^

I know,how does he do that sh*t. Miss all game long and then do that in the 4th. That is a quality only elite sportsmen have. Respect!!!!

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414964by Clippersfan86 » Nov 17, 2013 - 05:08 PM PST
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I've always thought Paul scoring 15-17 was enough. My issue is the shooting efficiency.

                
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tense2
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414965by tense2 » Nov 17, 2013 - 05:18 PM PST
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^with his shooting efficiency history record that should change as we get deeper into the season. Again, not worried.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414966by Silasie » Nov 17, 2013 - 05:35 PM PST
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I totally agree that Blake is stepping up but he's not really taking over. CP is such a dominant character that I don't know that anyone could take over but Blake is starting to take his rightful place that much more. Which is what we all wanted including CP.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414967by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 17, 2013 - 06:04 PM PST
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The best PGs can score effectively and distribute the ball. The thing is most PGs rely heavily on their jumpers to score so if your jumper is off you aren't going to do well offensively.

In comparison, guys like Lebron and BG can get lots of points off layups and dunks. They can score at the rim when their jumper is off.

                
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MartyKahn
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414969by MartyKahn » Nov 17, 2013 - 06:30 PM PST
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Lettuce take a step back and wait for a greater sample. Need more time

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 414971by Agent0 » Nov 17, 2013 - 06:35 PM PST
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Paul's job is to do whatever the team needs, and while he isn't there to just score, part of,his job and what makes him so special ifs his efficiency as a player. Paul isn't the same player if he isn't super efficient.

I disagree that you judge a PG by the assist column because not all assists are made equal. Not every guy that gets high assists is impacting the game as much as another guy getting high assists. You judge a PG like any other player, by how good he is and how he is positively helping his team.

I'm not going to judge a 3 and D PG on a team with a wing playmaker by his assists, but by how he fills his role and how he contributes to,the teams winning effort.


I think we sometimes forget how much harder PG's have to work for their points, and how truly impressive it is when they score at a good clip and very efficiently. Most PG's, but especially a guy like Paul are creating almost all their baskets, the best PG's are usually one of your teams best isolation scorers.

This is actually part of what separates Rondo from top PG's, his isolation scoring sucks. Westbrook actually is also bad at ISO scoring, but his ineffectiveness there is masked by the fact that he's one of the league leaders in fast break scoring, so his efficiency is brought back up by his high amount of fast break points, which are efficient.

Depending on the players role, many other players are assisted more than the PG, so if a guy like Blake shoots 4/10 on jumpshots, post moves and isolation, but then gets an alley-oop, 1/1, a put back 1/1, a pick and roll finish 2/3, a fast break finish 1/1, he ends up shooting 9/16, and 5/9 FG's were assisted, and even some of those jumpshots were assisted.

A PG like Paul, the shot he'll get assisted on most are his three's, and that's only on 2/5 makes. Last season he was assisted 41% on three's and 22% overall. So he's creating 78% of his FG attempts. So when he shoots 11/20, he most likely created 9/11 of those makes.

That's not an excuse, that's the plight of the PG / primary ball handler, but it does give us perspective on the relative difficulty of scoring amongs those different kind of players on the average night.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 414972by tense2 » Nov 17, 2013 - 06:45 PM PST
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Can I get some bacon and tomato with that "Lettuce". Razz

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414974by Silasie » Nov 17, 2013 - 06:48 PM PST
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^

That right there is why I am not a stat man. Stats can be very misleading and unless you have a mind like a steel trap you can be mis-lead easily. So like Agent says I judge a man by how good he is and not one particular stat.

                
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tense2
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414979by tense2 » Nov 17, 2013 - 07:23 PM PST
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^that's why you should look and evaluate all the data.

                
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BoomRizzle
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414980by BoomRizzle » Nov 17, 2013 - 07:34 PM PST
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I agree with Max Kellerman's take: If by the end of the year the question of "Who is the better player, CP or BG?" is posed to you, and you have to pause to actually think about it, then the Clippers will be in the finals.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414982by ClippersDA » Nov 17, 2013 - 07:54 PM PST
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I really hope nothing is wrong with bg's Achilles. I don't want it to be weak or something.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 414985by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 17, 2013 - 08:15 PM PST
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Not unless our defense gets A LOT better.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 414986by CapsNClips » Nov 17, 2013 - 08:16 PM PST
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I hope he takes as much time as he needs to recover even if it means a loss against Memphis.

We can't afford to make this a season long nagging injury.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 414992by ClipperPostman » Nov 17, 2013 - 09:00 PM PST
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You are taking what I'm saying way out of context.

Every players job is to do what the team needs.

In General you look for your Point guard to get assists not necessarily score.

Just like you don't judge Deandre Jordan by his scoring, but by his rebounds and blocks.

Of course this is a generalization every player has to do what their role is to impact the team.

With that being said. Paul's Assist Especially Assist/Turnover ratio is a great way to judge pauls game as opposed to how many points he score.

Or even how efficient he was on scoring.

Hence if you look at his scoring last game you would say he had a "Bad Game". But in reality as a person who watched the game he had a pretty good game. Just a bad shooting game.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 414995by pageC4 » Nov 17, 2013 - 11:28 PM PST
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stats are an interesting thing. What I have found about them is that there still is a lot of relativism on their use. Despite PER, EFF, per36, and all these stats every person using them will favor some things over another. I have come to learn that the deciding factor on stats is simply what the person behind them values. Even despite the human aspect behind their use many stats people will never acknowledge the human err in their application, and if someone disagrees with their interpretation it simply comes down to "the other person isn't looking at the right data, all data, or the data I decided is the best." In the end stats are a tool people use to evaluate players. and therein lies the problem, "people" are fallable creatures with their own agendas, biases, and opinions.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 414996by tense2 » Nov 17, 2013 - 11:45 PM PST
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There's no perfect stat tool...yet, but some are more reliable then others. The good ones realize that and are constantly trying to improve their models when new data appears.

They also are not afraid to admit to those "imperfect" analysis which are needed to better understand the piles of data that keeps getting unlocked.

                
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Kingkanyon
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 414997by Kingkanyon » Nov 17, 2013 - 11:58 PM PST
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I think Blake is benefiting from Doc's coaching, and the fact that he's got a plan of attack.

I always felt his biggest problem weren't the lack of post moves, but the lack of Decisiveness, It feels as though he finally knows what he wants to do, He still has lapses but they aren't as much as before.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 415000by CP3Heliflopter » Nov 18, 2013 - 12:12 AM PST
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What definitely irks me is when people see 3/12 for 12 points and just say bad game when he had 13 assists, 7 boards, 3 steals and only one TO.

If his 3/12 shooting was due to taking stupid shots or lack of aggressiveness sure but he was taking his usual mid range shots that were good looks but they weren't falling.

As for a PGs role. They don't necessarily have a defined role. Lots of PGs nowadays are more scorers than passers. What makes Paul unique is that he is arguably the best passer in the league while being an elite scorer as well.

The thing is if he has a bad shooting night he can make up for it in other aspects of his game unlike most other PGs.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415010by Voyeur » Nov 18, 2013 - 12:51 AM PST
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He's just in a shooting slump. But it's been quite a few games now. Frankly, Paul had a rough road trip too. But he'll get it together. He's still among the league leader in steals and his assists are off the charts.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 415012by Agent0 » Nov 18, 2013 - 01:54 AM PST
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You're right, I might have extended what you said too much, sorry about that.

Positions I think there is a bit of a misconception about what different positions should do on the court. The scoring PG is FAR from a new thing, but we always hear people talking about how PG's should be getting assists and calling guys who pass more "pure PG's". You can be a scoring PG and run a beautiful offense because of your decision making of when to shoot and when to pass and you can be a passing PG and run a mediocre offense because you can't put the ball in the basket effectively.

Paul for example is a scoring PG that can pass really well also if we are to be more accurate. He doesn't fit into one label or the other, he's both.

I don't really see passing as an accurate depiction of the role of a PG. Decision making is probably a better description, and that is when to score vs pass, who to pass to, etc. But then it depends on the type of PG a team has as what I'm now referring to is a primary playmaker PG, and some guys aren't the primary playmakers on their team, so decision making isn't their role.

Position names Not to mention that positional names really have little meaning and were just put in to make it easier for people to understand the game, not really to define the actual role of the position.

A lot of teams used to just play with two guards, there was no PG or SG technically, just two guards and whomever could do one thing better played one role and vice versa.

Assist to turnover ratio Assist to turnover ratio is also an interesting stat, assist to bad pass ratio actually tells us something more directly related to passing effectiveness, but it isn't streamline.

Assist to turnover ratio is somewhat okay because if you don't have a lot of turnovers, you also don't have a lot of passing turnovers, but while it is meant to depict passing efficiency, it can be deceptive when we start using it in comparisons. Turnovers aren't necessarily related to passing. Some players don't turn it over too much passing, but will turn it over in scoring attempts or handling the ball.

If you average 7 assists and 2.5 turnovers, but only throw 1.2 bad passes a game (5.8 assists to bad pass), you aren't a less effective passer than a guy with 10 assists and 2.8 turnovers, with 2 bad passes a game, which puts him at 5 assists to bad pass, but A/T ratio would suggest you are less efficient as a passer.

Maybe you score 20 PPG and commit your other 1.3 turnovers in ball handling / scoring situations and he scores 13 PPG and doesn't have as many dangerous situations where he could turn it over,

Sorry, just a tangent rant about some of our methods of analyzing that are probably a bit outdated, but we're too scared of "advanced" stats to replace them.

How do we judge a PG? I think the best answer is the same way we judge any other player, but their impact (statistically it would be through all of what they do), and what stat we would "focus" on, though I wouldn't say we should focus on any would depend on the type of player. Could be assists, but could be scoring efficiency or turnover rate.

I guess my point is that even A/T ratio isn't necessarily a "good" depictor overall, but it can be sometimes relevant because for example, 13 assists and 1 turnover, whether it was a passing turnover or not, it's still a great rate.

Of course, Paul could have a game with a ton of assists and few turnovers where he didn't actually play well and then a game with few assists and maybe 4 turnovers where he did. So it in itself isn't the best.

Individual games obviously require watching to see the how and why of production, though sometimes, statistics from an individual game can give a decent picture.

Over bigger sample sizes, of course it is better to look at a breadth of statistics, and some more meaningful ones like RAPM, etc along with the basic stats to gauge how well a player you might not have watched as much as you would like is impacting games relative to his peers.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 415013by ClipperPostman » Nov 18, 2013 - 02:58 AM PST
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Really great post. My response is really aim towards many posts I've been seeing saying CP3 has been terrible because he is in a scoring slump.

But I'll take scoring slump and winning any day.

Which means this team is set up where paul doesn't have to score big to be effective and win games. I much rather see him making plays, running the offense, and getting other guys involved.

This is the first time since Corey Magette we have a starting 2 that can put up 20+ points consistently in a game.

                
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ClipsGForce
Post ID: 415014by ClipsGForce » Nov 18, 2013 - 03:32 AM PST
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Eric Gordon say hi.

                
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Heediot
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415015by Heediot » Nov 18, 2013 - 04:12 AM PST
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Paul should get better shooting as his body gets acclimated to the new fast pace we are running. Up until the BK game we had a heavy opening schedule. His career consistency shows this shooting slump to be more of a fluke.

As for Blake, I think this is the year where he makes that leap. He should challenge Love for best PF by years' end I hope.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 415016by Silasie » Nov 18, 2013 - 06:34 AM PST
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That is one of the danger of stats...............people have an opinion and try and turn it into a "fact" by using a stat without admitting it is just an opinion. Of course stats are great if they are used with intelligence and honesty, but I frankly haven't got the type of mind that can see what is the truth through all the data.

Though I do enjoy reading the posts of lots of guys on this forum who use stats and it informs me. Sometimes that information is mis-leading but there is always someone else who points that out. But I don't know if I'll ever enter the debate with my set of stats to back me up. Smile

                
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kjavis
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415021by kjavis » Nov 18, 2013 - 07:10 AM PST
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It is great to see BG play at an 'allstar' level, maybe he feels responsible to take upon more offensive load seeing CP3s shooting struggles of late

                
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CP3Best
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415033by CP3Best » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:19 AM PST
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I think Blake's playing more like a Superstar!

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415034by Voyeur » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:21 AM PST
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Credit goes to BegicFilms, whoever they are for this video. It's got me already pumped for tonight's game!

Link

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 415036by ClipperPostman » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:29 AM PST
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LOL. Did he ever even get to play a full season? All I remember is him being hurt every year.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 415037by Silasie » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:31 AM PST
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Nice vid. Good close ups to give us an idea of just what a man mountain he is. Great use of music.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415038by Voyeur » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:33 AM PST
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Yeah I love Gordon and even kinda loved the idea of that potential trade for him and Lopez before all the official changes took place. But with Gordon it's not a matter of IF he gets injured, it's a matter of WHEN.

Having said that, it is SUCH a nice luxury to have great outside shooters.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 415039by Agent0 » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:38 AM PST
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This is true, his floor is All- Star level play, so if he's playing better then he's either high level All-Star or superstar status! Go Blake!

                
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ClipperFaithful
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415042by ClipperFaithful » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:47 AM PST
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people also need to realize his numbers were down last year because we were blowing tons of teams out and dind't play the 4th a lot

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 415043by Silasie » Nov 18, 2013 - 11:52 AM PST
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It's true. CP, DJ and BG's minutes have gone up a lot this year making their stat sheets look a lot better. Of course playing can give you a better rhythm too.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Blake Griffin Is Taking Over This Team Post ID: 415057by CapsNClips » Nov 18, 2013 - 01:53 PM PST
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Blake Griffin is taking over the West.

                
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