Blake Griffin Gets Lot of Blame While Chris Paul Gets a Pass

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MartyKahn
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He's a ballhog and a control freak in crunch time. And why does he slow the game down vs elite densive teams?

CP3Heliflopter
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Do you ever say anything positive about Blake Griffin or Chris Paul? Most of your posts are about how bad Blake Griffin is. Are you so bored of bashing Blake Griffin that you decided to switch targets? Sorry but I never saw a "fan" that bashed the players on the team they allegedly support that much.

Voyeur
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I guess that's kind of a compliment for Blake...so I'm shocked.

CP3Heliflopter
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He didn't want to actually compliment Blake so he had to do it indirectly by bashing another player. lol

MartyKahn
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I blame Blake for just sitting back while CP plays Hero ball. A real star would tell CP to pass the rock. But we know Blake's faults. CP is trated like a God by fans of all teams.

Agent0
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What did Blake get blamed for exactly?

Paul has led some of the league's best crunch time offenses, so it's a bit hard to say he's doing something wrong. The Clippers issue the past two seasons in crunch time was bad defense.

It's hard to really say anything about his decision making in those situations, I mean he has a very good success / effectiveness rate when it comes to his teams late game offense.

CapsNClips
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If you are going to blame someone for not getting Blake the ball you would have to blame Doc, right? he's the one calling the plays.

Obviously Doc is making the right call though. No matter how GREAT Blake becomes he's still NEVER going to be as clutch as CP.

And that's not a knock on Blake because not many players will ever be as clutch as CP.

Blake has his role, Chris has his, and Doc decides their's and I think he's doing a damn fine job at it.

cleepers
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Tell me something, OP... do you get mad at your accountant for being all nosey about your expenses? Sick and tired of the plumber fixing the pipes?

That "ballhog control freak" happens to be one of the best clutch performers in the business... it's what he DOES! It's what we PAY HIM to do!

ClippersDA
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I would like to see more fourth quarter plays run for blake as well. I want Chris taking the last shot, but I do feel blake gets taken out of the game offensively late. I think blake is capable, but he might not have the confidence. The coach and players need to help him grow into that role and they can only do that by making him more centric in the fourth quarter. It's always crawford and cp3 in he last fee minutes - very easy to game plan against that. I want to see what blake can do.

ClipperDB
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I have seen so many times that cp3 gives blake the ball in the 4th and blake passes it like a hot potatoe. It is obvious blake doesn't want the ball in the 4th, and cp got tired of force feeding it to blake.

CP3Heliflopter
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Where were you when that ballhog control freak closed the game against the Timberwolves and the Kings? Oh right probably bashing Blake Griffin.

ClippersDA
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maybe so, but I think doc can help bring out the pit bull in blake and make him take over. I don't think it is enough to say that blake does not want to shoot it in crunch time. His reluctance should be addressed by the coaching staff and his teammates. Doc needs to help blake take that mental next step, and I think he can.

ClipperDB
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I hope so. I would love to see blake take a good shot (not one where he is off balance) in the 4th qtr with the game on the line. I wouldn't even mind if he missed up.

Voyeur
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Blake has already been more active scoring in the 4th (even a couple of baskets in OT) this season than last. There's still some hesitation there from 2 years of deferring to Paul, but hopefully that is a sign of good things to come.

Agent0
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League wide, outside of select players, most late game offenses are run through guards. You can get them the ball easier, though that depends on the team and the big, but they are usually better shooters and therefore aren't dependent on getting closer to the basket to be able to make a play. They are better ball handlers and most of the time better passers. Bigs who can catch from a lot of distances and make effective moves, or use quick post moves and are low turnover are also good options.

http://www.82games.com/1213/CSORT5.HTM

-Sample size is obviously an issue because it isn't even for all teams / players, but this gives an idea

-Sort by FGA and the first big you'll see is Al Jefferson at 18th

-Nate Robinson and Belinelli were both taking more "clutch" time FGA than Carlos Boozer

-Dirk and West come in next in the 30's in terms of per minute FGA in the "clutch"

Let's get a better sample by adding another year:

http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT5.HTM

-Al Jefferson 8th

-LMA 14th

-Love 23rd

-Dirk, Garnett, Duncan in the 30's

Now, with that said, I agree, Blake should get more plays run for him. Sure, he doesn't need to be doing isolation when it's really few minutes, but there's no reason for him to not be getting FGA's or plays run for him anymore with 5 minutes left in the game. Blake IS an effective scorer.

Blake averages 0.43 FGA/minute for his career. The past two seasons in crunch time he's averaged 0.25 FGA/minute, so his FGA are basically cut in half.

If we go further and look at 10-11, when Paul was on the Hornets, coming back from injury and shooting a lot less, Blake was still not high up there, but he was taking 20.9 FGA/48 minutes in the clutch (0.44 FGA/minute), which means he was shooting as much as he would the rest of the game.

Is there a reason for him to have dropped so much? Probably not, but a few reasons are this:

Clutch FT%

11-12: Blake (58%), Paul (95%)

12-13: Blake (57%), Paul (90%)

Still, in 10-11 he was only shooting 55% FT in clutch but he was still taking shots like he normally would during the game. The other reason might be this:

Clutch Assisted FG%

12-13: Paul (3%), Griffin (64%)

11-12: Paul (2%), Blake (66%)

10-11: Paul (18%), Blake (69%)

Lastly, this reason can't be ignored:

-adding Jamal Crawford

We're talking about Paul, but the Clippers have two players who were both very effective last season in clutch. Jamal as the main go to spot up guy (assisted on 75% of his clutch attempts while taking 21.5 FGA/48, 0.45 FGA/minute, 0.46 FGA/minute as a whole last season) and shooting 52.2% FG and 54.2% 3PT, and Chris Paul as the creator (assisted on a meaningless 3% of his attempts) and shooting 49% FG, leading the league in FTA/48 (0.56 FTA/min compare to 0.14 FTA/min he did for the season) in the clutch and being the most efficient scorer out of the top clutch scorers.

Paul scored 52.0 PTS/48, 3rd in clutch PTS/minute (39 PTS/36 for a better reference idea of scoring rate) on 27.3 FGA/48 (1.90 PPS - point per shot).

Bryant 2nd (53.3 PTS/48, 36.9 FGA, 1.44 PPS) and Irving 1st (53.6 PTS/48, 38.8 FGA, 1.38 PPS). They both needed a lot more shots, and with Irving's super high turnover rate in crunch time (10 TOV/48 = 7.5 TOV/36, that's a CRAZY turnover rate), he was using a lot of possessions to get his production.

Every player in the top 10 had a higher FGA/48 than Paul, he had a higher FG% than all (Irving, Kobe, Durant, Harden, Holiday, James, Anthony, Lou Williams, Ellis), but because of 3PT shooting, I can't say about eFG%.

So Paul's decision making in the crunch time was to give the ball to himself where he shot 49% (but couldn't make three's) and drew FT's better than anyone, hitting 90%, or find Jamal Crawford who was deadly as a spot-up shooter in crunch time. It's hard to argue against it really.

Still, I'm not the biggest fan of stagnant end of game offense, though I have no problem with a well set up isolation. There's nothing wrong with isolation in itself. Yes, there is the one positive in not too much going on in that it can minimize turnovers. It's possible that if you try and run something too fancy, the ball might end up in the hand of someone you don't want to have the ball, you might not be able to get it back to who you want and you end up with a bad shot. Teams are more vigilant in ball denial late in games.

I prefer end game stuff that uses players as decoys to get spot up shooters open, and guys easy baskets at the rim. Also stuff that get's the guy you want to shoot moving and in a spot where the defense doesn't just zone in on him, etc.

jarca
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CP3 is clutch no question about that. I wish he would just move without the ball and find easy way to score. Most of his points comes from isolation play or pick and roll. Although he's good at it, our offense looks predictable and he's not making his defender pay when he's just camping out at the perimeter

CP3Heliflopter
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Unfortunately most superstars do the same thing. Predictable isos by the best scorer at the end of games.

The good thing is Paul at least takes good shots unlike guys like Melo.

Agent0
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True. I think the addition of Redick and some of the off-ball movement implemented helps to now make the offense less predictable, but in end of games, just sometimes giving a little bit of mis-direction before setting up for the iso would be nice.

Of course again, iso is safe, even more so than pick and roll which is another option teams like. Turnovers are less likely, and at least you know you'll usually get a shot (either from the guy isolating or from an open shooter after he draws a defender)

Paul isn't doing anything different from similar skilled PG's like a Nash, etc though in terms of off-ball play. Those guys score with the ball, and if they score off the ball it is spot up, not cuts. The more athletic game PG's are the ones that usually cut more.

Parker does more off ball, but it's partly 13 years of playing with Pop and drilling it, and also how Pop runs his offense. Curry does a lot of off-ball too, but for shooting, not for anything near the basket stuff, it's just the same sets a guy like Paul will run off the ball, but Curry can fire at anytime because his shot is insane.

toohipcliptoslip
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Blake is not clutch because he doesn't have a high percentage jump shot. Was Malone clutch? Brand was our clutch guy but he could shoot (Cassell was clutch as well)

MartyKahn
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I wish I had enough money where I needed an accountant.

There is a reason CP doesn't get far in the playoffs. Playing right into the hands of superior defensive teams by slowing the tempo and over dribbling. I really thought it was Del Negro's fault, but I was wrong.

jarca
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Well I should have been more specific. I was talking about more in general throughout the game.

jarca
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True, Curry is a special case.

Paul could learn something from Andre Miller when it comes to cutting towards the rim. The most non athletic point guard in this generation.

CP3Heliflopter
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You are a genius and here I thought it was our porous defense that caused us to lose to Memphis during our last playoff series. lol

ClipsGForce
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The reason why Blake get much of the blame because he have not proven yet to take over games. Think about it, 4th quarter, 10 seconds left, who do you want to take the last shot?

Icecoldclipper
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Paul for sure has to start being dominant at the start of games or we will never go anywhere. Sucked watching Lillard and Aldrige grind out a win together against the Pacers. Waiting for Paul and Griffin to take turns won't help our balance.

pageC4
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People may not like the OP's thread, but he does have a point in one thing: Blake Griffin is constantly criticized and CP3 is not. All the major sports commentators continue their typical criticism of Griffin (he can't shoot, he can't play defense..etc), but never a word against Paul.

Voyeur
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I will say there was a point, around the time the Clippers won their 10th or 11th game, some analyst called Paul the Clippers' "most consistent" player. Primarily because he was on that 10/10 streak.

But in my mind, up to then it truly was Blake who was the team's most consistent player. Last few games, Blake hasn't quite been the same, but hopefully we'll get that guy who won WCPotW on this long road trip.

pageC4
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we have had some tough matchups for him though. Hibbert will limit almost anyones performance. Blake will be ok

clipper*joe
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Totally agree with that. Lets also remember, BG did help close out the Kings game late in the 4th with that mid-range shot at the elbow. That shot surprised the hell out of me. No hesitation and as sweet as can be.

Call me crazy but I think BG is a different player without CP3. Seems he puts unnecessary pressure on himself late in games knowing CP3 is on the floor. It seems like that effects him mentally. It's about BG, not CP3.

Until BG realizes he's equal to Cp3, he will always second guess himself late in games.

ClipperPostman
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Lmao... Chris Paul is so clutch it's ridiculous. I have watched every game Chris paul has played in with the clippers.

Aside from the Pacers game he has been insanely clutch in the last minute of the 4th quarter.

Blake has been clutch at times this season. I remember a few timely jump shots.

But honestly I think Blake just doesn't have the confidence/Killer instinct YET to

demand the ball, go the hole, and make a play or get fouled.

I notice sometimes he doesn't get the ball in the 4th and he should be

chewing guys out for not getting him the ball. Instead he kinda gets nonchalant.

By the end of this season much of that will be changed watch.

Voyeur
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Your right. At times it even seems like Blake looks at Paul late in games as if to ask, "where do you want me to be?"

Which is why it's important that Doc creates plays for Blake, which he's done a few times.

Agent0
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Is that what the OP was referring to, the major sports commentators?

If so, do we really care what wrong things they say about Blake?

CP3Heliflopter
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Were the criticisms not valid at some point? Last season he was a mediocre mid range shooter. This season has improved in that regard but its not like commentators of other teams would know that. They generally only know about players on their own team. Perception of Blake Griffin will improve when he proves people wrong imo. His defense has gotten better too(in my opinion he is a good defender but inconsistent sometimes). Not saying Blake deserves the criticism he gets because he gets a disproportionate amount of hate compared to other stars but its not like the criticisms weren't valid at some point(relatively recently).

Top 5 players are rarely criticized with maybe the exception of Lebron. I don't even see Harden(who isn't a top 5 player in my opinion) get any criticism for his matador defense and the only valid criticisms that I have ever seen when it comes to Paul is that he is passive at times.

jarca
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I somewhat agree with this. CP3 has reached Kobe status in the media and fans without achieving as much as Kobe.

Lakers after Shaq always put the blame on his teammates especially punching bag Gasol regardless of how bad Kobe plays.

FightOnRon
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Well,they are all wrong then (especially if they are a fat ass announcer from TNT)!

Different jobs,different responsibilities,CP3 does what he was hired to do and so does Blake. IMHO,Blake was that crunch time guy until CP3 came aboard ,now they do their jobs the way they are coached to do.

Pretty much what all great PGs do.

pageC4
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I can only guess this refers to Charles Barkley. What sucks about the Charles situation is the fact that he is always right about us. Anytime we have a nationally televised game where he is part of the commentators we stink it up, and only give him fuel. I wish we could get our s**t together and start playing elite b-ball.

FightOnRon
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To quote our favorite announcer,"Bingo!".

But, I too am tired of having the bad game of the week always seemingly being when we are on TNT. I am always shocked at Shaq sticking up for us too.

pageC4
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I think despite the acquisition of Chris Paul we haven't completely made believers out of people. Since Chris Paul arrived we have had a second round exit and a first round exit during his first two years.

Based on how bad our deffense is this year and our losses against elite teams like Miami and Indiana I would say we are on the same trajectory again this year. I think we have moved on from the perception of being one of the worst teams in the NBA to being a team like Atlanta, Utah, Denver..etc. Its not bad per se. Its just that we have become one of those teams that you tend to brush off because you know they just don't have the talent to go farther than a playoff first or second round.

Granted we are making steps in the right direction, but not quite where we want to be. Its the whole reason we are getting criticized so much because to be honest teams like Denver, Utah, Atlanta, New York, and others like this were always brushed off and criticized just as we are now.

The one thing I can say about our situation is that despite being in the middle of the playoff pack there is still an opportunity to be a contender with some minor tweaks and some roster changes. Perhaps this is what we can hope for..to be a playoff team until we manage to build the right roster that will not only contend but win it all

clipperboy24
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^^^ well said. Right now we haven't proven anything so we do unfortunately get lumped in that "guaranteed to make the playoffs, realistically won't win a championship group." Until we get to the Finals that image will be on us and is deserved until we show we are more than a second round team and also during the regular season that we don't lose to the bad teams.

Akclipps
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Idk why but when i see the stats blake looks good but you actually watch the game he looks lost and plays awful. I feel like blake doesn't have confidence on his offensive game yet and he's being too passive. I know he added some jumpshot on his arsenal but he needs to have a bread and butter on the post where he can score easy late in the game. He needs to be more aggressive and dictate the game. I hate to say this but charles barkley maybe right, we need blake to be the number one guy for us to get to that ship and not really on our point guard

clippertizzle
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i agree with you blake can do more his numbers are good but if were not winning with those numbers then its not what we need we need more

MartyKahn
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I've come to the conclusion that he just doesn't keep coming at you. He'll go a qtr without even shooting. He'll defer to lesser talents every

night. He rarely take 20 shots. And its getting to the point where he's not even trying to get to the ft line. Just settling for jumpers and not even being aggressive.

Voyeur
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BG showed up last night. So did Paul for the most part. And so did Jamal. The three usual suspects. Do I wish Blake would go off for 47 points like he did his rookie year against Indiana. Absolutely. But for some reason, ever since we got Paul, he hasn't really come close. Not sure why.

Having said that, we needed that other guy to step up last night. Obviously it can't be JJ. I must look at DJ. The guy who was supposed to be 1 of our "big 3". The guy Doc claimed could challenge others as Defensive Player of the Year. DJ is young, energetic, quick and athletic. Other than rebounding he was a non factor last night when we needed someone.

ClippersDA
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LaMarcus Aldridge is coming into his own just this year - I'm starting to think we will need to wait a few years for blake.

MartyKahn
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Blake's best yr was w/o chris paul. Think about it.

Blake needs to play with a pg like Curry, Westbrook or Parker. Legit scorers that don't really dominate the ball.

Voyeur
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Yeah and Aldridge has been in the league how long?

Stephen A just proposed a trade idea of Carmelo for Blake. The problem is Stephen A just got finished talking about how Blake (and DJ) needs to be tougher on defense. Um, how is Carmelo an improvement in that area? lol

Smith also claimed that CP3's criticisms of the teams defense was aimed at Blake and DJ. And basically suggested Paul is somehow flawless on defense. But last I checked neither Blake, nor DJ were guarding Kyle Korver last night.

fullcourt
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I agree but the fact remains that Blake and DJ have to be physical presences on the defensive end every single night or this train goes nowhere.

Paul Milsap? They should be ashamed and disgusted with themselves. Until they both take it personally its gonna be tough for this team to compete with the big boys consistently.DJ and Blake have been together what 4 seasons now as a tandem? they should be owning teams defensively by now and should have a true understanding of what opposing bigs are capable of. No one should be catching these guys by surprise

fullcourt
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This is what Doc told Blake and DJ at haltime

Theyve been a tandem long enough now that what we saw in the second half should be common every single game. Things like what happened with Milsap the night before are just unacceptable. He played how many years in Utah and they see him and act as though they knew nothing about his game.

It makes me wonder how much film study those two have been doing the past few years

CP3Heliflopter
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Smith usually spouts nonsense. If he spouts enough nonsense he will eventually get something right.

Agent0
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Akclipps wrote:
Idk why but when i see the stats blake looks good but you actually watch the game he looks lost and plays awful. I feel like blake doesn't have confidence on his offensive game yet and he's being too passive. I know he added some jumpshot on his arsenal but he needs to have a bread and butter on the post where he can score easy late in the game. He needs to be more aggressive and dictate the game. I hate to say this but charles barkley maybe right, we need blake to be the number one guy for us to get to that ship and not really on our point guard
I don't really get this feeling from watching him play. I mean if you mean there are games where he looks like that, sure, but who doesn't have those games.

This is a balanced team offensively, there's really no consistent need for anyone to take a disproportionate amount of shots. Thing of trying to build an offense similar to SA, not trying to be the Thunder.

Quote:

Theyve been a tandem long enough now that what we saw in the second half should be common every single game. Things like what happened with Milsap the night before are just unacceptable. He played how many years in Utah and they see him and act as though they knew nothing about his game.

It makes me wonder how much film study those two have been doing the past few years

There's two ways to look at it. 1) Players sometimes have really good games, it just happens. 2) You can watch as much film as you want, you can know what someone is about to do and still not stop it.

Millsap is actually a good player. Maybe it is his lower minutes of lower popularity, but Millsap scoring 25 on you isn't embarassing. The guy averages 16.2 pts in only 32 minutes and shoots 51.7% FG, he'd be averaging more if he wasn't currently shooting a career low FT%.

Millsap's 25 points still took 20 shots, that's not the worst thing to happen. He dropped 25 (9/15) vs SAC, 29 (10/15) vs Denver, and 23 (9/14) vs Washington two games before LAC. He's shot 57%+ in 9/19 games this season, so it isn't some rare thing, and he's scored 18+ in 7/19 games.

He's a good player, and the guy can score quite well, so they definitely shouldn't "be embarrassed' that a good player had a good game, and that was the third most minutes he's played in a game all season, so more minutes generally = more production.

I would play one on one with my friend and for fun sometimes I would tell him what move I was going to do and he couldn't stop me, though he would contest well. We'd played together for a good amount of time, it's usually easier said than done.

It's never about if something happens once, those can be outliers, it's about if it is a consistent happening. Are Blake and DJ consistently getting killed one on one. I wouldn't say they are consistently getting killed, but they could be better at times, yes.

Of course being fans, and if we have certain perceptions (eg: their defense isn't good enough), we will have a better memory of when they get killed, and the games where they don't might be forgotten easier or just be chalked up to something else. Cause I know I remember Pekovic and Vucevic killing the team, but there was another game for example where I thought Blake's D was really good, but I don't remember at all who the team was playing, etc.

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