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clipper*joe
Post Subject: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers' 'Pouting' Post ID: 419451by clipper*joe » Dec 08, 2013 - 11:32 AM PST
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Doc Rivers expressed frustration with the Los Angeles Clippers about the state of their maturity following an 88-82 loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

"We did a lot of pouting in the game," Rivers said Saturday. "You can't play that way. You have to keep playing. I always call them emotional hijacks, and we had a lot of that going on. That happens, but you have to be able to pull yourself out of it individually or as a group, and I don't think we did a good job of that."

Rivers has been critical of the Clippers' body language dating back to training camp.

"When we become a good team, if we become a good team, it will be because we miss 30 shots in a row and you wouldn't know it," Rivers said. "We just keep playing. You get some bad calls on you and you just keep playing. Right now we're not at that point maturity-wise. When we go bad, we start thinking bad. That's an area we have to grow in. You can preach it but it's a habit and you have to get over it. There's been times where we've fought it and did good job, and this is one of those nights where we didn't."

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/stor ... rs-pouting



                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419453by Voyeur » Dec 08, 2013 - 11:37 AM PST
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Yeah and it was Blake primarily. He's been in a crabby mood lately after playing great early on. I think Doc has had them practicing way harder than they ever did before. Just based on pre game interviews alone where players are sweating buckets before the game even starts...and reports of Doc doing playoff practices before most coaches usually do.

Considering Blake is known for practicing hard and being one of the hardest working players in the business, I think maybe it's taking it's toll. He probably needs to take it easy on his personal regiment and allow Doc to set the regiment instead.

Also I wonder if the elbow stuff is throwing Blake off a bit. While BG was concentrating on in-the-paint offense the last couple of seasons, he was rarely outplayed by other PF's. Here he's at the elbow and maybe it's taking him out of his game a bit.

I don't know, I'm just speculating.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419459by ClippersDA » Dec 08, 2013 - 12:04 PM PST
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Comes from the top down. I have no idea why this team isn't mentally tough.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419472by ClipperPostman » Dec 08, 2013 - 01:43 PM PST
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This is why I love the doc move. Clippers have been pouters since blake got there. And that's just being honest.

VDN never called them out on it.

I look at teams like the spurs. No matter how much they are down or up, they just keep playing their game from opening tip to final whistle.

That's what I want to see from the clippers. And I think that's what is dissapointing many fans on this board more than the loses.

It's the "Pouting and moping" attitude whenever we are not getting calls and are down in the 4th.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419473by jarca » Dec 08, 2013 - 01:44 PM PST
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I like to pin point to the summer of 2011. The team basically with no GM and direction said forget defense we'll go go after finese players who are versatile on the offensive end but don't impact the defensive end. Bledsoe was are highest impact defender last year. What did we do with him, we traded him for 2 players who cannot play defense. What messages does that send to the team? Offense first then defense.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 419476by ClipperPostman » Dec 08, 2013 - 01:57 PM PST
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I think you are oversimplifying things drastically. JJ and dudley both play solid defense when healthy. But the idea is to bring in shooters to spread the floor for blake so we can have a half court offense.

We had 0 half court offense which is what killed us in the playoffs. Which means defenders pack the paint on blake.

As much as I hated to see bledsoe go it had to be done. I just feel like we undervalued him.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 419483by Silasie » Dec 08, 2013 - 02:52 PM PST
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Agreed, he was even on them for dropping their heads in a scrimmage in training camp. Get it sorted Doc!

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419491by Agent0 » Dec 08, 2013 - 03:38 PM PST
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The defense hasn't even been that bad outside of isolated situations for a while. Inconsistent? Yes. Overall bad? Nope, actually above average overall for some games. It was especially not bad last game, even relative to Cleveland's suckiness. Cleveland shot terrible. The guys are underestimating how bad they played on offense if they think they could have only defended better into a win.

Cleveland had a 92 Ortg last game, 5.3 pts/100 less than their league low 97.3 Ortg and that is despite getting 18 pts, 8-13 FG, .637 TS%, 137 Ortg in 24 minutes from Bynum who had been poor offensively for most of the season.

37.3% FG, 28.6% 3PT, .457 TS%. I'm sorry, but that wasn't a game about defending better, that was a game about making a shot, ANY shot.

...and that is partly because their coach does all the pouting and whining for them so they don't have to do it. Doc is trying to give the players that mentality, that he will whine and complain to the refs, so they don't need to worry about that. Phil did a similar thing. BUT, because we don't want to paint it like it is black and white, the Spurs also have their breakdowns, they also complain, and Duncan does do his share of complaining to the refs.

It's natural for some people really, even if they don't want to. Many complainers have complained their way to great success and to championships, so I won't pin any lack of success on complaining when you just have to make some shots.

                
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Clipper-Josh
Post ID: 419496by Clipper-Josh » Dec 08, 2013 - 05:09 PM PST
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when Reggie Evans left, he took that attitude with him.

We have a bunch of Charmin players on the team that don't have that tough mentality.

I know we are going to struggle early, but there is NO reason why we should be be losing to Atlanta and Cleveland.

Every time we seem to make progress, we end up going back to where we started.

                
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FightOnRon
Post ID: 419500by FightOnRon » Dec 08, 2013 - 05:18 PM PST
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VDN babied this team. In their minds they are all superstars so vinny,IMHO,didn't want to mess with the almighty superstars (think of any coach trying to coach Mamba).

But,unlike Vinny,doc is a superstar coach and he could care less about anyone that perceives themselves to be elite. Elite or 15th guy on the roster,you all get treated the same. If Doc says you work,work.

I too am tired of the pouting. My lord you guys get paid 10s of thousands of dollars every game you play. Man-up and act like men. Listen to your coach.

                
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botev1921
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419501by botev1921 » Dec 08, 2013 - 05:27 PM PST
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However we look at it, we just lack quality with all these injuries.

                
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Dunkathon
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419505by Dunkathon » Dec 08, 2013 - 05:50 PM PST
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I think Doc will right the ship eventually. The injuries have severely impacted this team, and the pouting and quitter attitude definitely hasn't helped.

I'm not going to panic. Instead, I'm going to trust that by the end of the season, the Clipers will be a squad that can make a deep run in the playoffs at the very least.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419509by ClippersDA » Dec 08, 2013 - 06:24 PM PST
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Really amazing I a bad way that these guys get paid a fortune and then have such a loser attitude when they feel things are unfair. Blake saying "it's hard" to not lose composure feels majorly week. Do t eat up a huge portion of our cap if you can't have a winning mentality. I haven't seen good body language from Paul ever, so it isn't just blake,

                
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FightOnRon
Post ID: 419510by FightOnRon » Dec 08, 2013 - 06:41 PM PST
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I am sure Doc will get it right too,it is just a culture/attitude change these guys are not used to. None of them have had a coach like Doc.

We know these guys can ball, we know the caliber of their abilities,they just have to not get mad, get even.

                
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ClippersDA
Post ID: 419511by ClippersDA » Dec 08, 2013 - 06:43 PM PST
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Meant to say haven't seen good body language from Paul *recently*either. Obviously I didn't mean never.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419514by CP3Heliflopter » Dec 08, 2013 - 07:03 PM PST
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Don't see good body language from most of our players. They are just frustrated and they should be they are playing like crap and the injuries aren't helping. Our players are dropping like flies. Right now we have no depth due to injuries and are desperate to fill in the holes at each position.

                
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Griffinforpresident
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419525by Griffinforpresident » Dec 08, 2013 - 07:44 PM PST
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This falls squarely on Blake. Either the team signs a tough guy to push Blake around, or Blake will just end up being another Amare Stoudamire.

Man up, Blake!!!! I'm already tired of your weak mentality.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419527by Voyeur » Dec 08, 2013 - 07:48 PM PST
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These guys were in much better moods last year when we were beating the stuffing out of other teams. Doc's forcing them to play with more discipline and I think it's making them cranky.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 419546by pageC4 » Dec 08, 2013 - 09:02 PM PST
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well unfortunately it looks like the reality is that he is very much like Amare. Finess, offensive player. although he is more athletic, a better passer, and more powerful than amare, but he is like him on not being a strong defensive player. When drafted Blake people always compared him to two people:Amare and Tim Duncan. I hoped he would be closer to the latter, but it is what it is. I still love Blake, and would rather have him than not, but there are aspects of his game that make me wonder if we can win a championship with him being the second option. I guess only time will tell, but I hope we can

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419547by Voyeur » Dec 08, 2013 - 09:05 PM PST
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At best Blake will be the superstar we all want him to be. But at worse, he might be a great role player who happens to get 20 points, 10 rebounds, can handle and pass the ball and hustle.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419548by ClippersDA » Dec 08, 2013 - 09:05 PM PST
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I hope someone close to blake tells him that fans are starting to really question him. Maybe that will wake him up.

                
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lucas26
Post ID: 419549by lucas26 » Dec 08, 2013 - 09:16 PM PST
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That's Doc's job if not Pauls.

                
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lucas26
Post ID: 419551by lucas26 » Dec 08, 2013 - 09:21 PM PST
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Agreed. I kinda miss Lob City. I know the players and fans enjoyed it. Its kinda like Rocky2. Rocky could not get going because he was thinking about his wife and his newborn. He's now a family man ya know. They Adriane said eff this....'WIN!!!' Guess what happened?

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 419569by ClipperPostman » Dec 08, 2013 - 11:16 PM PST
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Yea but the difference is it doesn't affect their game. And that's the difference. Clippers quit playing when their are complaining. Blake quits attacking and walks down the court with his head down.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419573by ClippersDA » Dec 08, 2013 - 11:38 PM PST
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Blake is immature, I never wanted to have to say it. But he does walk down the court with a pouty face a lot.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 419576by Agent0 » Dec 09, 2013 - 12:20 AM PST
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That is true, though it is always a post happening analysis. We've seen them complain and play well and complain and suck. Then there's also the chicken and egg. Was Blake playing bad because he was complaining, or was he complaining because the game was going terribly for him and he was frustrated?

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 419584by toohipcliptoslip » Dec 09, 2013 - 04:47 AM PST
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I said in a previous post that Blake was tradeable, not that we should trade him now. He is not the franchise, he is simply another player. Again I'm not saying start looking right now but if HYPOTHETICALLY Love is a better fit then we trade.

If another player is a better fit and we can win a ring, get the other player. If he doesn't fit with CP3 one has to go.

I'M NOT SAYING TRADE HIM I'm saying that we're not married to him and he's not untouchable.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419596by Voyeur » Dec 09, 2013 - 10:15 AM PST
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I'm glad you mentioned Love. Both Blake and Love have been in a bit of a slump lately.

Last 5 games:

Blake: 17 points, 43% FG, 79% FT, 10 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 2.6 TO Love: 19 points, 34%, 77.5% FT's, 13.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 2.3 TO

So...slumps happen. I suppose Love is less "pouty" about it. But not sure Love solves any defensive problems.

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419606by cleepers » Dec 09, 2013 - 11:37 AM PST
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The reason the Spurs don't pout as much as other teams/players is because Pop is the undisputed ruler of the team. Buford would trade any and all players to appease him. Doc needs to start throwing his weight around... benching ANYONE who isn't playing hard and letting them have it in front of the fans. It may hurt now, but it will set the tone and make the team better in the long run.

Yes, Vinny babied the stars - mostly because his own job was constantly on the line - but Doc has much more power, a long contract and the respect of the media. It's time he ruffled some feathers. Even without JJ, Matt, Reggie and a gimpy Dudley, we should still be beating sub .500 teams.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419608by Silasie » Dec 09, 2013 - 11:39 AM PST
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^ Agreed 100%. Kick some butt Doc.

                
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fullcourt
Post ID: 419610by fullcourt » Dec 09, 2013 - 11:46 AM PST
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That wouldn't work and would probably make the situation worse. The issue especially involving Blake and DJ is that they have to understand that we are no longer the underdogs. We are a traveling sports center top ten and every scrub wants to make a name for himself against them now.

They havent really handled the expectations that well and don't seem to get that now the only nights off you get are the ones you create by dominating teams on the floor

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 419612by Icecoldclipper » Dec 09, 2013 - 11:57 AM PST
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35 3pt attempts that is a total lack of game planning and understanding of good shots. Doc needs to step his command of the team up before going to the media.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 419615by jarca » Dec 09, 2013 - 12:05 PM PST
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Pop has the luxury of an exceptional front office. If Pop benches his stars, he has up an coming young talent ready to be developed. Look at the Clippers bench. There's not a lot of upside developing anyone except bullock.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 420142by namzug » Dec 11, 2013 - 04:30 PM PST
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I agree with you Jarca that we don't have the luxury of having the greatest bench players. I would still do it, I think sacrificing a game or two during the season could really send a message to both Blake and Paul.

Personally I've liked what I've seen from DJ where we don't see this half as much from him as we did last season.

Especially in games where I've noticed both of them do it, I would sit them both put in Mullens and Green in their place. Tell them you two obviously don't want to win, so I'll at least put in some players that want to win.!

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 420145by ClippersDA » Dec 11, 2013 - 04:59 PM PST
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Except Mullens doesn't play like he likes winning.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 420148by namzug » Dec 11, 2013 - 05:30 PM PST
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Yeah, but if you are Blake and you just got replaced by Mullens I don't think you would pout again.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 420151by pageC4 » Dec 11, 2013 - 05:49 PM PST
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The Spurs organization is one of a kind. It's very difficult to discuss it and try to emulate elsewhere. But a few factors have to be taken into account to see how rare it is. One, San Antonio is not as huge a metropolis like Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, or even Houston. It does not have the glitz and glamour that those cities do. Second, the Spurs were anchored by a relatively quiet nucleus of Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Leonard, Green, Splitter, and Bonner. Sometimes its difficult to even list their lineup because they are such quite and reserved guys that make no national headlines. Third, their head coach is an amazing guy that loathes the limelight. Watch Pop getting interviewed and he hates it, and he doesn't like his guys being interviewed either. Contrast that to our squad where our guys are seen on commercials from game fly to reebok. I wouldn't be surprised if Blake Griffin were to air a commercial with a tiger advertising his new car dealership. What's interesting is how the luxury in this city even saturates those with tough DNA. I remember how much of a bad ass Ron Artest was and all of a sudden he comes to L.A. and things really change. To make a long story short there will always be a different culture in smaller towns that breeds more humble, tougher men and organizations.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Doc Rivers Upset At Clippers Post ID: 420361by namzug » Dec 12, 2013 - 12:52 PM PST
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I agree that the culture is different between smaller towns and large cities, but don't think that smaller towns necessarily breed more humble, tougher men or organizations. I think that everyone's life (parenting, social status, environment, etc...) and self creates different individuals. I've known people from all over the world and have seen some correlation between what you are explaining I've also seen people from small towns that act a fool and people from large cities being reserved and humble as can be. My brother and I were raised in very similar environments, but have much different personalities.

As far as organizations look at Chicago, which looks like a hard work blue collar organizations as well as Boston in my opinion. Those are two big cities, where a Blue Collar approach seems to be the approach. Anyways my point is, I think it is based more on individuals. The players themselves and how they were raised and the events that have surrounded their lives and helped build their character; and for the organizations the individuals that run them.

For Metta Ron Artest, I think he's just gotten older and has matured. Same for Barnes and some of the older statesmen that were thought to be crazier in their youth.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 420383by CP3Heliflopter » Dec 12, 2013 - 05:41 PM PST
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The Spurs were able to build their culture because they only look for high character, usually low key individuals. Look at Kawhi Leonard for instance. Perfect Spurs player.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 420385by pageC4 » Dec 12, 2013 - 06:26 PM PST
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He hasn't impressed Doc either, which is why I suspect he is getting almost no minutes

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 420390by Silasie » Dec 12, 2013 - 06:40 PM PST
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As soon as he stopped playing him the bench significantly improved.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 420391by pageC4 » Dec 12, 2013 - 06:49 PM PST
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yes, it did. I wish I knew what the plans for him are now. its not good practice to acquire a player and pay him to sit

                
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