Blake Griffin vs Kevin Love (P. 2)

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Agent0
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I think we need to be fair about these comparisons:

12-13:

Rubio: 57/82 games

Love: 18/82 games

Kirilenko: 64/82 games

Love missing 60+ games is all that really matters here.

11-12:

Rubio: 41/66 games

Pekovic: 47/66 games

Love: 55/66 games

Only Derrick Williams and Wesley Johnson played more than 60 games. The 7th and 8th seeds won 36 games each, the Wolves won 26 games. The Wolves were 21-20 with Rubio playing, and he wasn't fully healthy for all those games. He didn't start the first 10 games and they went 3-7. So they went 18-13 with Rubio starting.

10-11:

Beasley was the second option on the team, actually the first option, just that Love was more efficient, so he scored more. That was Love's first year being a leader of the team.

So before this season, he's had 3 years. 1 year he played 18 games, 1 year the team should have been miserable based on the roster (10-11), so what are we really getting at him for?

Now, this season if they stay relatively healthy, there's currently no excuses. Sure, their bench is mediocre, but teams have succeeded with mediocre benches before.

EDIT: Even though I picked Blake, I won't be dense and act like there aren't a lot of things in Love's game that would fit the Clippers well. Mainly that his shooting would give leeway in the need to a shooter at one of the wing positions, so the team could get away with playing a defensive guy who might not shoot three's that well at one of the wing positions and not loose spacing because of the versatility of a big that takes 6+ three's a game and makes like 38%.

LobAngelesBlakers
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I say this type of stuff on every board. Blake is heavily scrutinized, and I believe it is because he produces at a high level, and we all know he is capable of doing more. He is hands down the most blue collar dude in the league, and is 2nd best if not the best pure power forward in the league. Anybody who would trade our franchises savior for marginal returns in Love, are not complete fans imo

Greenmonk94
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the biggest knock on kevin love is that he is not a closer.. at least not the mind set to take over.. but griffin also does not have that mind set.. may show it in some games but over all he does not have that mind set.. i think blake and kevin and great #2 options but never a #1 option that can lead a team to a championship... Griffin has had great shooters around him.. well for the most part.. Foye, Butler, jj, jamal, mo williams, paul, gordon etc. they are great shooters.. if kevin and pekovic don't score.. no one else doesn't..

cleepers
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^ That is why I can't agree with people who say Love is better as if it is a matter of fact. It's all opinion and false equivalency. NEITHER guy could singlehandedly lead a banged-up roster of role players to the playoffs, BUT in Blake's defense, he was just a rookie when he tried.

To be honest, I think it's kind of stupid to compare the 2 just because they are SO different. Both are putting up HOF numbers... but Blake is doing it while winning games.

Of course, the biggest intangible that doesn't get talked about is that drafting Blake was the first domino to fall in our journey from laughing stock to contender. The Wolves got their guy too... but they're still sh!t.

CapsNClips
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Yep,

Also in 20 years is anybody going to give a flying f*ck that K Love averaged 25&13?

Blake has already played in one of the greatest playoff series in the last decade that will be replayed for years on NBA Hardwood classics. Those are the memories I care about.

clipperstown
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I Have always said it. Wait till Love gets to the playoffs and starts getting scrutinized.

sz123456
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People gave T-Mac a hard time for not winning a playoff series, when does K-Love start to get flack for not participating in the playoffs yet?

On top of that, Timberwolves are stacked with talent and have a terrific coach. That falls on him to a degree.

what_up_clipnation83
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No question it's BG all day, I can't eff with Love, he's good but not good enough to trade BG for him.

BG has the potential to be great.

ClipperPostman
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What some of you fail to realize is something called "Team Chemistry" and "Team Identity". Our

hard nose, bang bang, athletic, fight for lose balls is our identity. That identity is based

off of Blake.

Just because you put great offensive players on the floor together doesn't mean

you are going to win a ring. Barkley, Malone, Etc....

Those monster Jams blake does have won us games by instantly

shifting the momentum of the game.

I disagree that it's JUST about winning. It's about putting on an exciting

show for the fans. Look at the spurs, they win, but bore people to tears.

Not only are we the most exciting team in the league, but have a legitimate chance

at winning.

Again those saying trade Blake for Love couldn't possibly understand the intangibles

of team chemistry and identity and how important that is for winning.

toohipcliptoslip
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Cleepers mentioned BG with an average PG. He did well with Baron. BAron wasn't the #1 scoring option as is CP3.

tense2
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Fans being fans is one thing and then there's this from the NBA GM Poll this year:

Who is the best power forward in the NBA?

  1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 31.0%

  2. Kevin Love, Minnesota -- 27.6%

  3. LeBron James, Miami -- 13.8%

  4. LaMarcus Aldridge, Portland; Blake Griffin, L.A. Clippers -- 6.9%

Also receiving votes: Chris Bosh, Miami; Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City; Kevin Garnett, Brooklyn; Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas

Last year: Kevin Love -- 30.0%

http://www.nba.com/news/2013-14-nba-gm-survey/

But to me it's a Win-win situation.

Both are 2 of the best at the PF position.

Both contribute in different ways with different skill sets.

I wouldn't mind having either one....oh wait.

pageC4
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it's a hard call to make really Kevin Love appears to be the better statistical player, but when you think about running a team and what Blake brings you, actually what he did bring us. He was such a marketable guy from the get go and despite having a losing record during his rookie year he was the talk of the town...even on 710 ESPN, Laker radio.

From the perspective of a team owner Blake brings more asses onto those stadium seats than a bus bench in compton.

Voyeur
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No rest for BG. Gotta face David Lee tomorrow and Aldridge right after.

CP3Best
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If I wanted to make a team I'd take Blake over Love any day. Love is offense, no defense, and he's shooting THIRTY percent on the season. TERRIBLE. Blake makes his teammates better, and can lead the team as well. And then there's CP3 as well, till Blake will become a Complete leader.

Agent0
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Are you sure you weren't looking at Rudy Gay's numbers?

tense2
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Ouch...lol.

Agent0
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People do get on Love, but let's put things in perspective. The guy has been a "main" guy on his team for 3 seasons (this is the 4th)

Last season he played 18/82 games, so that doesn't count. So basically we're talking about 2 seasons so far as the main guy not making the playoffs and his first year as a main guy, Beasley was the first option for most of the season and the team really sucked talent wise.

I don't know, but it's hard to really say much from 2 seasons of not making the playoffs, which is basically what it would be for Love.

Aldridge hadn't had his team make the playoffs for the past 2 seasons himself for example.

CP3Best
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Typo, meant 40%

CP3Best
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I don't know why, but after i downloaded the game againt the twolves, it showed his stats coming in and said 30%, that was weird.

pageC4
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Before Paul we didn't make the playoffs true. But Blake was a beast even before Paul. His skills and growth have been a result of his own hard work. Kevin Love next to Chris we don't know how that would be, but just remember that a team has five players, they all take shots, handle the ball, take time of possession, we all have to factor how this would work out with a hypothetical Paul and Love. Its the same thing with Lakers fans wondering how the Paul and Bryant experiment would have worked. They all speculate that it would be this unstoppable force, but that may not be the case. Sometimes the pairings that never went down seem like the best because we never got to see reality kick in like reduced possession for each star. Think MJ would be MJ with Lebron or Kobe on that team? Or as even Kobe correctly pointed out MJ never played with Shaq so his statitical accolades that seem so far out of reach are almost unfair to compare. again agreeing with Kobe "apples and oranges"

pageC4
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Blake does seem better than Love defensively. Still, the leadership thing is hard though. Blake just doesn't have that overall game like Tim Duncan did or Shaquille O' Neal, where they were just as good defensively as offensively. I see potential in Blake on becoming like this though. I see him as a "chameleon" in regards to skills. He spent a lot of time with Carmelo working on his shot, and time watching Jamal Crawfords crossovers..which he has mimicked better than anyone. I really hope the Clippers can get Garnett cheap after this season..can you imagine KG mentoring Blake? He could get the other side of basketball, the more crucial side...that would make him unstoppable

pageC4
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Damn, pretty much wrote the same analysis before I realized someone beat me too it. Great post:)

pageC4
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and this year they don't have many excuses. That roster of Love, Rubio, Martin, Pekovic, Barrea, and Brewer (plus the great Rick Adelman coaching) should be better than 11th place in the west. Weren't they in the top 4 of the west early in the season?

Agent0
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Usually in scenario's like this, the guys losing touches aren't the Paul's or Love's, but the Corey Brewer's, Kevin Martin's, etc.

I think it's always good to examine player style in trying to figure this out. Blake and Love have different scoring areas, but are actually very similar scoring style of players offensively, that is, they work getting set up, but also have ability to create when needed.

We can generally hypothesize with good accuracy when we have a grasp of playing style, then other times people just hope talent prevails over fit (eg: Lebron and Wade aren't the best fits next to each other game wise, but talent and willingness to mesh prevailed).

Love already plays with a very ball dominant PG, the difference between Rubio and Paul is that Paul actually makes his shots and can actually score. Love is a decently high off-ball player, similar to Blake so there realistically shouldn't be any issues with him playing next to Paul or any similar PG for that matter.

Love scoring the ball wouldn't take away from CP3 handling the ball because Paul will be delivering a good amount of those shots to him. Similarly a Rubio handling the ball wouldn't take away from someone like Blake scoring because he'll be getting the ball back.

Kobe and Paul is different because Kobe is very ball dominant, but also very hard in his ways. He's a more difficult player for a ball dominant guard to pair up with, so that is harder to predict.

Doesn't mean it can't work, but it's harder to say. Just like Dragic and Bledsoe was hard to predict, but so far they look like a good pairing.

A primarily assisted non ball dominant big and a PG though, that's a much easier situation to be very certain that the pairing won't have issues unless it is some sort of personality conflict that can't be worked around.

    CP3Best: Typo, meant 40%

You do know that saying 40% is a bit different than his actual 45.8% right? What does his "40%" mean in regards to the discussion at hand though, that he isn't an effective scorer? We can't neglect his high amount of three's when talking about his FG% cause Dirk for most of his career also "shot 40%", but I think we know that FG% really tells us very little about scoring effectiveness, efficiency or ability.

    pagec4: I really hope the Clippers can get Garnett cheap after this season..can you imagine KG mentoring Blake?

I was going to say KG for cheap would be great, but he is on contract for one more season at $12M, so that won't be happening Sad.

toohipcliptoslip
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Sorry Bro' It's all about winning. If you were around in the QRich, DMiles era they were the most exciting team in the NBA and sold out every night and had losing seasons. Paul or BG wouldn't be here during that era. CP wouldn't be here if he didn't think he could win. Blake wouldn't be here neither would Doc, Matt, Collison, Gentry, Lue etc if they didn't think we could win a ring. If given a chance to play with the Spurs as PF he might take it." Hypothetically and for argument's sake" if he could play PF with Miami he'd be crazy not to go.

When there is an argument about which player is better some (idiots) always say that as example MJ is better than Wilt or Oscar because MJ has more rings. Maybe to be the best BG has to have rings. He should go where the rings are. It's all about winning.

Malone never won a championship because of one thing Michael Jordan. If not for MJ Karl would have had one or more. There are no intangibles. There is one thing and one thing only. Your team gets more points. If you notice more likely than not a BG jam is followed by a jam on the other side. The opponents are not intimidated.

Those who know basketball AND I'M NOT SAYING YOU DON'T think the Spurs aren't boring. they are art. If BG and Love both have maxed out I'd trade in a heartbeat. But I don't think BG has maxed. Doc should be called Merlin

"More butts than a bus bench in Compton".!! -- I have been usurped as CTB Poet Laureate

Mistwell
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I had season tickets for all of their years, and they most certainly unquestionably were not selling out every night. In fact, there were many nights where sales were so bad they moved my diagonal upper-level seats down to lower-level seats because they had closed the upper level due to lack of attendance. They didn't even open half the concession stands due to poor attendance. In no way, shape, or form did they come even vaguely close to selling out every night.

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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I still believe that if the Clippers didn't get CP3 and some of the other big name guys they've gotten over the past few seasons, then the team would just feed Blake all the time. Yes, CP3 is able to get Blake some easy looks, but if Blake was the only option on the team, like in his rookie season, he would probably average 25-27 points and 15 rebounds. But it's not all about numbers, it's about winning. Blake gets unfairly criticized even though he sacrifices his own numbers for the benefit of his team.

BaadMaster
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I LOVE this thread. As a Lakers fan, it has been too long since we've had a debate regarding greatness. It is really fun to talk about Blake Griffin vs. KLove or even CP3 vs. some other star NBA point guards.

As to the BG vs KLove issue, they are both elite players and I would love to have either one on the Lakers. KLove is a possibility in a couple of years, so Staples could be the true home of greatness. I do think BG is only going to get better; I am not sure if Love will. (I watch Clippers games, not TWolve games so I don't know if Kevin has peaked or not.)

When it comes to the playoffs, Blake's game is better suited to that style of basketball. I think BG is the better player in this regard.

Plus, you cannot go simply by the numbers. Doc knows how to pace a team over a whole season; he will make sure the Clippers peak at the right time -- the post season. He is not going to ride Blake like a race horse just to pad his numbers. (It must be awesome to have a great coach. The Lakers have that fool D'Antoni)

Finally, Griffin is clearly the more exciting player. By a wide margin.

So, on all counts, I would take Blake over Love. Period.

I am really rooting for the Clippers to go all the way. I want Los Angeles to beat Miami -- and it sure ain't gonna be the Lakers doing it!

CapsNClips
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Remember the trade rumors of Blake & Bledsoe for Dwight? You guys would've actually been relevant right now and for the future. Why were so many Laker fans against that? Obviously every Clipper fan with a brain was against it also.

pageC4
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It's about having a star that is the face of another teams franchise. We would be in uproar here if for some reason the Clippers got Kobe Bryant.

pageC4
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Thanks for the well wishes. We do have a huge task ahead of us though. As currently stands I'm not sure we will go to deep though. We are in the same place as last year, 4th seed. The difference is that we did get younger on the wings by jettisoning Butler and Billups and acquiring Redick and Dudley. Offensively we seem better than last year, but defensively we dropped down a notch. The silver linning though is that the Clippers may get better as the season progresses, and perhaps the dissapointing start may be due to new player getting adjusted to a new coach and system.

The Lakers look similar to last year as well, and it's my hunch that they will get that 8th seed even despite the absence of Kobe. They got younger as well and now have athleticism they didn't have on last years squad. It's brilliant really that they are a few spots out of playoff contention despite being completely limited by the salary cap and having a plethora of injuries. And last but not least taking game one against the Clippers was a big plus for you guys (this is definitely the rematch game I'm looking forward to most).

Agent0
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I think we need to loose that perception, it's still lingering, but it isn't true, and the on court product certainly doesn't agree. 3PT defense is improved, guys are giving the second and third effort because they know their teammates have their back. One of the worst things on defense is when you feel like you are the only player on the team giving multiple efforts.

The players defensive intensity is on a different level, mainly the starters, pick and roll defense is still a work in progress, but is improved, rotations and communication is much better, and I think a big thing is that DJ has emerged as a leader. It has actually been the opposite in terms of offense and defense.

Last season:

110.6 Ortg (4th)

103.6 Drtg (8th)

49.2% opponent eFG%

This season:

109.1 Ortg (4th)

102.9 Drtg (7th)

48.1% opponent eFG%

The starters are miles better on defense this season from watching the games, and it is backed up by the comparison. The bench was the defensive unit last year, but it is the starters that will be primarily relied on to win playoff series. If the bench this year was as good defensively as last season, Clippers would be a top 3 / elite defense!

The offense in terms of system is better, but injuries and lack of bench production has not allowed it's actual production to be better, yet. The return of Redick and better health though should result in an improved offense that is better than last seasons.

cleepers
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^ Yup... and if you ignore the first dozen games or so, the past month we look even better defensively. If and when we can get the early season offense combined with the recent defense, we are a championship caliber team.

tense2
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I say break the season down in 20 game increments. The last 20 games (barring any serious injuries) of the season should give us a telling of how good we are and what we might achieve in the PO's.

So far we are trending in the right direction.

spontane
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For reference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 2=loveke01

You would be choosing the inferior player.

austin009009
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k love

austin009009
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he is a better all around player no doubt

austin009009
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Blake fits better with our team though

austin009009
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i would still take BG over love

austin009009
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K loves defense is still up in the air though

austin009009
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same with blake

BaadMaster
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As an outside observer and Lakers fan, it appears to me that Doc is teaching the Clippers how to win. The last two losses are learning tools. Both games could have easily been won.

As a Lakers fan, I remember how Phil would let those Pau teams lose in order to let them learn how to win. Doc is just doing the same.

Remember, the key is peaking at the right time. To paraphrase AI, this is just "practise."

So, Clippers fans, don't get too bent out of shape about regular season losses.

It's just "practise."

Now go ahead and beat the Heat and that overhyped LeBron!

Because maybe comparing BG to Love is not the comparison...comparing BG to LeBron is the right one.

Voyeur
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I've been thinking (which can be dangerous at times lol). If I were to rank the best PF's in the game RIGHT NOW, being brutally honest, it would go a little something like this:

  1. LaMarcus Aldridge: Falls somewhere between K Love and B Griffin in points. Better FG % than Love, not as good as Blake. Having his best year rebounding. Not as good a rebounder as Love but averaging more boards than Blake. However, I trust Blake's rebounding a little more. Better defender than Love. Slightly worse than Blake. The main reason I select LMA as number one is his ability to take over games, like he did in OT against the Clippers. However, he's a veteran who's been in the league for 7 years so one would expect him to do so. He knows what his go to move is and he commits. Gotta respect that.

  2. Blake Griffin: His points and rebounds aren't quite up there with Love and LMA but he's efficient with his points and he shares rebounding duties with the 2nd best rebounder in the league. Arguably a better defender than LMA, certainly better defender than Love. He's a much better ball handler and better passer (despite Love's increase in assists this year) than both. Known for hustle plays, diving for loose balls, etc. Becoming a solid screen setter. Sometimes too passive on offense, especially down the stretch, deferring to Paul. But this year has gotten MUCH better. Shooting jumpers with more confidence also. As good as he is, it's obvious he will be even better in years to come.

  3. Kevin Love: Better offensive player than Blake right now. Certainly more aggressive than his rivals. Very good 3 point shooter, but underrated in the low post. However, not sure if I can truly say he's a better all around offensive player than LMA, though he is more explosive. Has gotten better with passes and especially the outlet, leading to a dramatic increase in assists. An absolutely dominant rebounder. Love could have a broken leg and the flu and out-rebound Blake and LMA. But his rebounding is at the expense of defense, which is easily worse than BG and LMA. His points and rebounds alone will win many games for the T Wolves, but his lack of D will play a factor should his team end the season with a mediocre record.

This is my basic analysis as of right now. All this could change by the end of the season. And make no mistake, this is not me saying I would switch Blake for anyone, because I wouldn't.

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Griffin provides the bigger impact

CP3Heliflopter
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I definitely would not say LMA is the best PF in the game right now. He is getting crazy overrated. He plays a minimal role in the Blazers offense being so great. The Blazers offense is great due to the super elite 3 point shooting from Matthews, Batum and Lillard. All of them shoot 3s at an elite clip on crazy volume. Mo Williams and Wright aren't too shabby too(overall we don't have any 3 point shooter that can even hold a candle to those 3 guys). Also the Blazers draw a lot of fouls. Aldridge is a below average efficiency scorer. Outside of rebounds he has had a lot of similar caliber seasons where the Blazers were crap which is telling.

I am not even sure he is above Dirk who is having a better season to be frank. Leading his much less talented team to the playoffs and being much more important to his team. I do credit LMA for stepping it up on the boards and on D but the Blazers are one of the worst defensive teams in the league so how much does he really help them? Give the Blazers Blake and they are frankly just as good if not better due to Blake's inside presence and superior passing.

ClipperKyle32
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@isaaclowenkron: .@blakegriffin32's last 6 games: 26.5 PTS; 11.7 REB; 3.2 AST; 53%FG; 78%FT; 3-6 three-pointers. #Damn. #Clippers #NBA

WoW look at our Blake growing up and being one of the best! I feel like a proud dad

TiaNation
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I love Blake Griffin so much, he's one of my favorite players to watch. My top 5 favorite player in the NBA now, I like him more than Kevin Love BUT I think at this stage Kevin Love is better because he rebounds a bit better, and has better offensive moves.

I love Blake Griffin growth and improvement though, I think he's showing everybody that he doesn't only dunks, and he's starting to knock down some shots and play well in the post.

Oh but to answer the question, I'd rather have Blake Griffin on the Clippers.

CapsNClips
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We should also be 7-0, but oh well.

ClippersDA
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Love might be "better" but blake has only scratched the surface, and love has reached his ceiling I think. Lamarcys us crazy hot, but rarely ventures into post. Not a winning recipe.

Silasie
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Blakes last few games are making this debate all the more clear. We are seeing him begin to fulfil his true potential.

But Blakes improvement aside even if Love is better I want Blake on this team because I have a connection with him as a fan to our star player. Also Love is scoring and scoring but he is not defending and that only gets you so far.

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