Clippers Vs. Jazz Official Game Thread 2013-12-28 (P. 4)

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CapsNClips
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I'm seriously so happy Blake is finally a 70% FT shooter. At the rate he's going 75% isn't out of the picture for the end of the season.

Voyeur
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Yeah he's rising fast. I hope he doesn't lose focus.

toohipcliptoslip
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The misses were when he was tired.

Voyeur
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Did Blake sit at all in the second half?

CP3Heliflopter
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Love Blake's improvements this season. Expanding his range and improving his free throw shooting and post game.

CP3Heliflopter
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When was the last time Blake had back to back 30+ ppg games?

toohipcliptoslip
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Hey David How's it going?

Much of Utah's problem was Blake got both their bigs in foul trouble and neither could handle him one on one. He beasted Kanter. When he guarded Kanter, Kanter couldn't move him but he could move Kanter. They couldn't stop him even when he was doubled. They bounced off of him like the truth bounces off of a lawyer.

How many jumpers did he miss? one? two? I wonder if the GSW game woke him up.

BYNUM!!!

toohipcliptoslip
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No but if he sat their bigs would have porked us. I hope he has some left for PHX. Will Collison guard Bledsoe? Bledsoe sure as hell will guard CP and I think Eric could torch Chris. EB like Parker is too quick. Jamal playing SF?

CapsNClips
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He's only done it 3 times before tonight. They were all in his rookie season.

kjavis
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monster night from BG, now if he hadnt turned it up would have actually got real ugly, other players got to step it up

gman
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I am sorry but i do not understand this. who is this Dolan Character?

Dunkathon
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James Dolan is the owner of the Knicks, the team some here were discussing trading Blake Griffin to for Carmelo Anthony. He has a history incompetence with managing the Knicks, whether it's absurd contracts, scaring off otherwise decent players, getting people to tail his team's coach, or hiring terrible front office management.

FightOnRon
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I hated this game and I'll tell you why. I was there. Whenever I was in my seat we would fall behind,when I would go into the concourse and watch we would gain ground or take the lead and hold it. I spent half the dang game in the concourse watching on TV. Ye am a superstitious type when it comes to sports but I fell on the grenade for our team !

CP3Heliflopter
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And most importantly giving away draft picks like they are candy.

david
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You're right Toohip- Favors only played like 22 minutes because of 5 fouls, and of course Kanter fouled out. Those two aren't exactly bad defenders either.

david
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Ron- well it worked great, lol!

Agent0
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Sooo...about Crawford as a starter, with last night's poor shooting again, he's now at:

19.1 pts, 2.0 rebs, 2.4 assists, 2.0 tov, 38.6% FG, 36.1% 3PT, .504 TS%, 97 Ortg

Might be a combination of him not being as good in the starting lineup, but could it also be the fact that he has been evading father time with his play? He is 33 years old, he's no spring chicken, so how long could we expect him to be effective as an isolation scorer as he is?

33 though isn't really bad, guys can usually prolong it till like 34/35, I think, but he is 33 and 284 days, so he's basically 34.

Voyeur
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I just think it's an awkward style for JC. Having to be more patient and be more off-the-ball. Maybe even playing more defense. It's a little out of his comfort zone.

There were times last night when I watched JC try to run without the ball and got stuck, not knowing where to go. He's trying admirably, but it's just not his game. He was terrific off the bench. We had JJ doing what he does best, then Jamal would come in and do what he does best. It was a nice rotation.

Icecoldclipper
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I think the explosion of Blake has more to do with more responsibility. There is no Martin or Odom to relieve him its on him to do all he can on both ends.

Kingkanyon
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Your trying to hard to make a case for J.J., but your going about it all wrong, especially when they're averaging more points and giving up less without J.J. (I know it was the bench who was bad defensively). If you want to make a case for J.J. just say that he was scoring more Efficiently, but he still can't put up the all around numbers like Crawford can, and fact is they both could do well in both spots, but some of us like Crawford Starting for the Simple fact that he can take pressure of CP3 from having to make every play and from having the other teams best defender on him all night or because Crawford can get quality shot off with 5 seconds on the clock, and not to mention J.C. doesn't have to play nearly the whole 2nd or 4th quarter like he's been doing. But frankly I don't know why we keep trying to argue this topic, they both will most likely play when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter, we should be lucky to have them both and not care about who's starting or finishing, but there is no evidence that supports J.J. as a better starter than Crawford.

Voyeur
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Kingkanyon, your argument is tired. And the suggestion that JC makes the starters better simply doesn't pass the eye test.

Icecoldclipper
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I know I appreciate what Crawford has done as the starter. When JJ is ready he will do us a much larger service off the bench.

ClippersDA
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Crawford has not looked to pass at all recently even when he should. I have found him exasperating. He is better

Off. Bench where he can focus on scoring the ball.

Kingkanyon
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Then maybe I need Glasses, because from what I see, and just about every relevant sports caster to announcer can see is JC Free's up CP3. But as you say my argument is tired, because the record and stats suggest that...... wait they don't.

_______________________________________________________________You can Argue J.J over J.C. to the moon, but I'll never buy it.

JC is a Fringe All Star 20pt Scorer and a respected threat from every position of the Floor on Offense.

J.J. is a respected shooter, who requires your fastest defender to stay with him and who is not to be left open. But he can always be guarded by a weak defender.

I know one thing, I'd trade Redick for Crawford, but I would never trade Crawford for Redick.

Agent0
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Offensively it is pretty close in terms of team production with both, but Blake has also been shooting like 80% from the FT line since Jamal has been starting, so that's sort of a confounding factor.

Has Jamal really been creating much as a starter? Does a team with Paul and Griffin really need someone else to create on the ball and as a playmaker in the starting lineup? Maybe, maybe not. Another shot creator in the starting lineup is a nice luxury, but I wouldn't call it a necessity, especially comparing to other top teams in the league. A shot creator on the bench though, that I will agree is quite helpful.

Spurs: Parker / Duncan

Heat: Lebron / Wade (Bosh isn't used as a playmaker)

OKC: Westbrook / Durant

Indiana: Stephenson / George are the main playmakers

Portland: Lillard / Aldridge / Batum (but their offense is also a bit different)

Jamal is averaging 2.4 assists in 37 minutes, not too impressive. Redick was averaging 2.1 assists in 28 minutes. Jamal sucks are rebounding, so that is irrelevant, Redick was doing 2.2 in 28 mins. Has Paul really been getting any less of the best defender than he usually would? Most teams don't and Paul still gets the best defender even when Crawford is on the court, so that part isn't really changing much.

http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?T ... ode=Totals

Starting lineup with Redick (290 minutes):

109.4 Ortg

101.6 Drtg

Starting lineup with Crawford (214 minutes):

107.0 Ortg

100.0 Ortg

So 2.4 pts better on offense, and 1.6 pts better on defense. So 0.8 pts/100 better overall with Redick, so basically the same, slightly better with Redick. Obviously not a total picture, the team has progressed in some areas since the beginning of the season, still accurate enough.

with Redick and Crawford (53 minutes):

119.4 Ortg

108.5 Drtg

Of course the sample size of the last one is not that large, amazing on offense, but defense is not so nice which does make sense, but it is +11, so if it was actually sustainable (it isn't), it would be good.

I think if the solution is that it is even with Jamal vs Redick starting, then Jamal as an on ball shot creator in the 10-12 MPG when he's in primarily with the bench and no CP makes more sense than Redick playing that role.

    Kingkanyon: who requires your fastest defender to stay with him and who is not to be left open. But he can always be guarded by a weak defender.

Is this an oxymorom? Lol

tense2
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You may want to trade in your glasses, lol.

1st 17 games before Reddick got hurt:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

Last 15 games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

Look at the FG%'s 3PT%'s, 2PT%'s. only thing better is our FT%. 1st 17 games the Clippers averaged 106.8 PPG. Next 15 games 102.9.

CP3Heliflopter
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Crawford's role careerwise has primarily been on the ball. He isn't as good off the ball as Redick. Not a surprise he is doing worse as a starter.

Kingkanyon
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Did you not see the game against the Spurs, were Khawi had to guard Crawford. Or how about GS were Iggy guarded Crawford and Klay guarded CP3.

But anyway, I'm not for or against Redick Starting, I just don't see why some people are against Crawford, I frankly can care less, about all the numbers or whatnot, they honestly can't tell you everything, but blah,blah blah, Crawford is still the better player, and he'll always be in the 4th quarter no matter what. So bring him off the bench to start or start him, he's going to finish. J.J. well not so much.

ClippersDA
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Jj was playing down the stretch in plenty of games. I want jj launching the ball way more than Dudley. I hate how Crawford gets tunnel vision all the time. Much better being the focal point of our offense with worse offensive players.

CP3Heliflopter
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Really don't care for this Crawford vs Redick nonsense. Just grateful we have two capable starting SGs who can play the 6th man role as well.

Agent0
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Does Jamal necessarily take away the best defender form CP? Teams can just put the best defender on Paul, the second best on CP and the other guy on Dudley if they wanted to. Teams know CP is the best perimeter player on the team.

For example:

Warriors game with Redick starting:

Stephen Curry started off on Paul, Iguodala did like 2 possessions, then Thompson guarded him the rest of the way. Iguodala first stayed on Dudley, then got switched to Redick after Thompson was cemented on Paul. 2nd half started: Thompson on Paul, Iguodala on Redick, Curry on Dudley. 4th quarter, Thompson again, both Crawford and Redick were guarded by Iguodala, and Curry was on Dudley.

Warriors game, Jamal starting:

Thompson started off on Paul, Stephen Curry was guarding Jamal to start, then Iguodala got Jamal later.

So that's the exact same matchup for Paul in both situations. Really the Clips would need two high level perimeter guys for CP to be able to escape, and even then, if he's the best player, teams will still in dire situations put their best guy on him.

tense2
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If you think Jamal is better, fine....subjective. Your choice. Most of the numbers say different whether you're are looking at the team or individual data which doesn't seem to matter to you anyway. You're a Jamal guy which is your privilege to be. wink

Agent0
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Just answered this. GS actually used Iguodala on Redick also and Klay on Paul. Jackson believes Klay is an elite defender at the SG position and actually prefers him on Paul.

Pop switches the matchups on Paul, but he generally likes to go conventional. Parker was on Paul for all of the first quarter and also the second. Crawford had Belinelli who came in decently quickly for some time, and when Green came in (no SF's that game), Leonard was on Green and Beli stayed on Jamal. Leonard was on Paul for a little bit of the 2nd and 3rd with Beli on Jamal, but then they went back to the PG on Paul. Since Pop has both Green and Leonard, he can always elect to put one on Paul and the other on Crawford, he has a nice luxury.

I think it's just coach and team dependent and who is hot or not, but it is also applicable to Redick in that if he is getting shots up against a small guy, the coach is going to want to get a more lengthy guy on him to contest better. They are both capable players.

Jamal isn't "bad", but if he's the better on ball creator and inferior off ball guy and screen user, then his skills while they are nice in general would benefit the bench more. Not because he's an inferior player, just like Manu isn't inferior to Danny Green.

pageC4
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JJ is definitely a more selective shooter than Jamal. He always has this dsicipline of not releasing the shot after the jump if he doesn't feel 100% about it.

pageC4
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It's nice to see that we have that luxury of having a SG debate. I only wish we had this problem with our front court as well.

jarca
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Your number also says Dudley is a good value wink

tense2
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Season, to my knowledge hasn't ended just yet. Very Happy

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