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namzug
Post Subject: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428301by namzug » Jan 10, 2014 - 04:11 PM PST
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http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nba/rum ... t?id=20717

If anyone with Insider could post this, it'd be much appreciated, Thanks.



                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428307by cleepers » Jan 10, 2014 - 04:32 PM PST
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ESPN with the scoop again, I see.

                
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FightOnRon
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428311by FightOnRon » Jan 10, 2014 - 04:58 PM PST
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Unless you're big into fantasy basketball or a close follower of the Clippers, it might be easy to overlook the big season DeAndre Jordan is having in his first year under Doc Rivers.

But, as NBA.com's stats department pointed via Twitter on Thursday, Jordan is in fact having a breakout season in his sixth year as a pro.

Heading into last night's games, Jordan was leading the league in FG% (.649) and rebounds per game (13.5) and was third in blocks per game (2.37) while avg'ing career-high 9.4 PPG, 0.9 SPG. From a fantasy perspective, his numbers closely parallel those of Andre Drummond in Detroit -- strong-to-great everywhere except free throw percentage (39.7).

But in terms of his actual value to the Clippers, this marks the third-straight season where he's had a player efficiency rating of 16.39 or higher -- he's currently at 16.66 -- and some of the credit has to go to Rivers and the approach he's taken with the sometimes frustrating big man.

"I've always wanted to be a good defensive player," Jordan told ESPNLosAngeles.com earlier this week. "Our coaches stress on that a lot more -- what they want from us, and I'm just really in the right spots defensively to be effective. They put a lot on me, and really I'm just embracing it, that's really it."

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Jordan has hauled down ten or more rebounds and blocked at least one shot in each of his last 15 games. The only other active NBA players who have ever fashioned such a streak of that length (or longer) are Tyson Chandler, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dwight Howard.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428314by namzug » Jan 10, 2014 - 05:04 PM PST
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That's great company, Thanks @FightOnRon always helping us out with these.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428323by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 06:00 PM PST
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Thanks Ron for posting.

I'm not ready to buy into DJ being a great defender. He's a highlight machine offensive / defensively, but because of these highlights, I think people misinterpret them into him being a top defender in the league. There are so many errors in his defensive game that a few highlight blocks won't make up for. Right now, unless the ball comes to him, DJ will get out-hustled almost every rebound. He hates getting physical, and also gets faked out too easily. Still can't get over how Pekovic got 30+ points using the same exact move for the entire game.

Until DJ fixes these issues, I'm nowhere close to calling him a great defender.

                
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ClipperDB
Post ID: 428325by ClipperDB » Jan 10, 2014 - 06:23 PM PST
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I agree. I admit he has improved this year, but... I don't see Clips as a championship team unless he continues to work. Am I the only one who notices he has terrible hands; a lot of good passes are dropped out of bounds, and he has to tap out rebounds because he can't control them.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 428334by tense2 » Jan 10, 2014 - 06:46 PM PST
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For the Clippers to be a championship type team they NEED continued improvement from DJ AND Blake. Plus a decent back up big.

Not sure how "terrible" his hands are, but the tap outs are done by a lot of big men these days when they find it difficult to actually grab the ball, lol.

He's done everything needed in the rebounding department so far for the Clips this season and he continues to improve on the defensive end too...this year's DRtg is 97 compared to last years 101 (which was an improvement from the year before). Keep going forward DJ.

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428337by cleepers » Jan 10, 2014 - 06:54 PM PST
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Hard to criticize the rebounding of the guy who leads the league in rebounding. Might as well say Love and Howard will also get "outhustled unless the ball comes to them" since they're both getting fewer boards in similar minutes (Howard 1 min less, Love 1 min more).

Not saying there aren't other holes in his overall game, but the only flaw concerning DJ and rebounding this season is that he's not showing Hollins how to do it.

                
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Laak
Post ID: 428347by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 07:43 PM PST
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The majority of the rebounds he gets should be called freebies to him. He gets the rebounds simply because he's the tallest, and has great vertical. Howard is same as DJ.

Players I respect are guys like Randolph and Love. They aren't gifted with the athletic abilities like DJ and D12. But they try they're best to fight for position, box players out to get the ball. That's an EARNED rebound. DJ rarely fights for a rebound like these guys do.

I was critical on Blake last year for not improving his post game, FT, jumpers. But props to him, he clearly worked hard to develop his game, and now is someone the team depends on.

DJ has just as much talent as BG, if not more. Even if he can't shoot, he can still become another Shaq. However right now, he's still only in the NBA because or his athletic abilities. This is his 6th year, he hasn't made any drastic improvements, nor develop a skill the team can rely him on.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428348by ClipperKyle32 » Jan 10, 2014 - 07:44 PM PST
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What does a player have to do to be called "GREAT" defender? Deandre is one of the top DEFENSIVE players in this league! There is a difference between being a DEFENDER and a DEFENSIVE player! A Defender can shut his man down night in and night out! A Defensive players is a players who is always in great help position to Block or Alter shots from other players! Defensive not only means BLOCKING shots but DEFENSIVE rebounding! Deandre right now is one of the best doing both! You have to give credit where credit is due! Pekovic also put 30+ on Kendrick Perkins who is known as a good/great defender!

There is no question that Deandre Jordan is one of the best Defensive Players in the league! As far as a DEFENDER, he isn't there yet! He is a good one but not a great one! Deandre is one of the best right and people still do not give him credit

                
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ClipperPostman
Post ID: 428351by ClipperPostman » Jan 10, 2014 - 07:58 PM PST
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I actually agree with some of what you said. But the rebounding part isn't true. If you are the top rebounder in the league averaging over 13 per game you are the best rebounder lol.

To say every rebounds he gets are the ones that come to him:

  1. Isn't true - I've seen him fight every game for rebounds
  2. Doesn't make sense considering he is the #1 rebounder in the league.

This means that he is the luckiest player in the league. Where every game all the boards fall his way... Which is absurd. DJ has a few 19-20 rebounding games. Are you saying every board fell in his hands?

Apart from that as far as Defense he has 2 major holes that he should be able to fix easily.

  1. Over trapping. He traps the PG too hard on Pick and Rolls and leaves his man wide open for the fade (For shooting C;s) and or droll.

  2. Touch fouls - Many times he'll do silly push fouls and allowing the And 1 instead of just wrapping the guy up and making sure they don't get the ball in the basket.

If he fixes those 2 i think he will be a candidate for DPOY,

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428354by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 08:17 PM PST
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Take Kobe for example. He has one of the worst shooting percentage during clutch situations, which probably cost his team more loses than wins. However, MANY people believe he's clutch, because he often makes highlight game-winners.

DJ is the same. He OVER-COMMITS too much, always looking for a block, which leads to a pass -> easy bucket under the rim. Sometimes, he over-commits and it pays off, which leads to a beautiful highlight block. In the end, people will only remember the blocks.

Even if you say "defensive player", I wouldn't call him great either. Trying to get a block, he over-commits and lets in more baskets than getting blocks.

                
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Cliptonyte
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428365by Cliptonyte » Jan 10, 2014 - 09:11 PM PST
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Some of you remind of those people who continued to say that the world was flat, even after it was proven that it wasn't.

DJ has improved every year he has been in the league. He's not just lucky to be a league leader in rebounding. If it was really so easy and luck, then anyone could do it. Just suck it up and admit that you were wrong about DJ and just move past it. It's okay, everyone is wrong sometimes. Yeah, he still has some work to do, but he's proven himself to be a pretty darn good center in the NBA. The people who continue to bash him, just continue to make themselves look like the casual basketball fans that they really are...

                
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Laak
Post ID: 428368by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 09:42 PM PST
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I never said he's lucky to be rebounding leader. He's rebounding leader because of his crazy athleticism. He can cover so much area in air, that's what I meant by ball coming to him. If he can start being more physical and boxing people out like you're supposed to, then he can be much better.

You say DJ's improved every year and he's PROVEN to be a good center. Then tell me 1, just 1 task you can absolutely rely him on during clutch situations. Because to me, he's still very much raw, probably not even reaching 50% of his potential.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428378by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 09:53 PM PST
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If I'm wrong, great. Changes my perspective. But at least back yourself with some proof before telling I'm wrong.

I never said he's lucky to be rebounding leader. He's rebounding leader because of his crazy athleticism. He can cover so much area in air, that's what I meant by ball coming to him. If he can start being more physical and boxing people out like you're supposed to, then he can be much better.

You say DJ's improved every year and he's PROVEN to be a good center. Then tell me 1, just 1 task you can absolutely rely him on during clutch situations. Because to me, he's still very much raw, probably not even reaching 50% of his potential.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 428386by tense2 » Jan 10, 2014 - 09:59 PM PST
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/129-deandre-jordan

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428419by Laak » Jan 10, 2014 - 10:14 PM PST
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Sigh.. okay his rebounding improved.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 428481by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 10, 2014 - 10:44 PM PST
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Well said I agree with everything you said. He still has his flaws but the important thing is that he is improving.

                
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Cliptonyte
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428586by Cliptonyte » Jan 10, 2014 - 11:38 PM PST
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Former NBA Coach, Hubie Brown, said he'll be in the mix for defensive player of the year, but what does he know?

                
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Cliptonyte
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428602by Cliptonyte » Jan 10, 2014 - 11:44 PM PST
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Or how about what Doc Rivers was saying about him in an NBA.com article the other day?

I am not sure that I can prove something that apparently you just can't see for yourself?

I agree that he's still raw and hasn't reached his full potential.

All I am saying is that you still aren't happy with him, then you're impossible to please.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428706by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 12:48 AM PST
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Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_04

You're funny... half of Randolph's rebounds are off his own missed shots within 2 feet. He's so f*cking fat, nobody can move him.

Love is a great rebounder, no doubt... but how many times does he sacrifice his rebounding position to block shots? ...NEVER, that's how often. And DJ still beats him on the boards.

Again... if you're criticizing the league's best rebounder on his rebounding, the problem is with you, not him.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 428715by jarca » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:06 AM PST
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Haters gonna hate. Love leaves his own man on defense to chase down freebie rebounds where no one is closer to him. DJ already lead the league in offensive rebounds. Those aren't freebies. It's not like he's getting his own misses. He's getting his teammates misses unlike Randolph.

                
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Laak
Post ID: 428717by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:13 AM PST
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Even LeBron can be criticized for his game. There's always room for improvement.

Since most of you are very satisfied with DJ playing half his potential, I guess I have problems for wanting him to play to his fullest.

I'll say no more, continue the praising.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428719by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:23 AM PST
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Dude, don't act like a b!tch... all passive-aggressive and sh!t..

Everybody who disagreed with you said that he has room for improvement, but you calling him out on his rebounding is just flat out wrong... there is literally NOBODY better at that aspect of the game right now.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428720by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:34 AM PST
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I'm talking about rebounding skills. If all the centers in NBA had the same height / athleticism, do you still think he'd be the best rebounder? Purely relying on athleticism is never good. I could care less if a player get 20, 30 rebounds. It's how they get it. I give props to him for tapping out many offensive rebounds, but defensive end ain't so good. And Duncan is better.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 428722by CapsNClips » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:39 AM PST
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Saying DJ is the best rebounder in the game isn't praising, it's called not lying.

Also maybe saying LBJ needs improvement isn't the best way to get out of debate jam. LBJ needs room for improvement about as much as Mullens needs more touches.

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428727by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:43 AM PST
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Really? YOU could care less? Well, there's no arguing with that logic.

Duncan: 9.8 rebounds per game, 12.0 per 36 minutes Jordan: 13.5 rebounds per game, 13.8 per 36 minutes

So, no... Duncan is NOT better right now. You're beating a dead horse, homie.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428729by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:45 AM PST
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Baaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!

Repped!

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428730by Voyeur » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:47 AM PST
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Oops. Nothing to see here. Wrong thread.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428731by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:47 AM PST
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You still haven't answered this. If all the centers in NBA had the same height / athleticism, do you still think he'd be the best rebounder?

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428734by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:50 AM PST
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And if CP3 could run as fast and Jump as high as Russell Westbrook, we'd be looking at a 3-peat... what's your point?

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428735by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:52 AM PST
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Forget it. My definition of being a good rebounder is different than yours. Talking about different things in the first place.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428736by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:55 AM PST
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Yeah... stupid DJ... he should get rebounds without jumping.

roll

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428737by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:57 AM PST
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Fundamentals > athleticism.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428738by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:59 AM PST
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When it comes to rebounding this season... it looks to me (and the facts) like you're wrong.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 428741by jarca » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:02 AM PST
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Oh we're playing the what if game now?

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428746by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:05 AM PST
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When it truly matters in playoffs he'll struggle against elite teams if he doesn't develop.

The facts tell me which teams are first seeds every year. Do only first seeds become champs?

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428748by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:10 AM PST
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Good point... so how many rings do your boys Randolph and Love have?

Timmy's Spurs got a top seed in the West... shame they were just one REBOUND away from being champs.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 428750by CapsNClips » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:13 AM PST
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K Love is a great rebounder because of his low center of gravity which helps immensely in boxing out. If Kevin Love's legs and body were the same height as DJ, he'd be less effective at the box out because less lower center of gravity means less balance and stability.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428751by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:13 AM PST
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Teams win championships, players win awards.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428752by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:16 AM PST
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So Duncan's MVP's hurt his team?

You're a DJ-hating joke.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428754by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:23 AM PST
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No individual players can win a championship on their own. Why misinterpret? My definition of good rebounding is having good fundamentals. I say one thing about DJ having poor fundamentals and you call it hate lol.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 428755by tense2 » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:25 AM PST
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Apparently like most people who wear blinkers you're not looking at ALL the numbers. Sigh.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428756by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:33 AM PST
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[quote="Laak"]No individual players can win a championship on their own. Why misinterpret? My definition of good rebounding is having good fundamentals. I say one thing about DJ having poor fundamentals and you call it hate lol.

Yeah, if only Shaq had not been so big and heavy...

I really wish the NBA was like NASCAR.

roll

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 428757by CapsNClips » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:34 AM PST
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Good fundamentals are great when it's 1955 and everybody in the NBA is a 5'9 white dude.

Luckily for everybody except those white dudes Bill Russell got into the league and said "F*ck set shots and pick-n-rolls, I want to out jump every motherf*cker and grab that rebound and run a fast break"

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428758by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:36 AM PST
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Damn, if the NBA was all about 5' 9" white dudes, I'd be on an MLE contract!

Monaaaaaaay!!!

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428759by Laak » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:42 AM PST
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Just said my opinions that's all. Guess they were pretty idiotic huh? lol. Have a good night Smile

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 428760by CapsNClips » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:48 AM PST
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You might still have a chance on getting signed by the Lakers, they desperatly need......a.....um.....anybody.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 428761by cleepers » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:51 AM PST
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Dude, there are some things I just won't do for money... and playing for the lakers ranks slightly below standing on Santa Monica Blvd in a miniskirt.

"Wearing purple and piss always gets me raped" - Pau Gasol

                
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tense2
Post ID: 428783by tense2 » Jan 11, 2014 - 11:59 AM PST
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Cleepers, you're my favorite "Bull Dog" and I mean that in the most flattering/positive terms mate....and the wit, oh the wit. He'll slice you up and you won't even notice you're bleeding until you leave the room.

Beware all trolls of the "Bull Dog".

                
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