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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428806by Agent0 » Jan 11, 2014 - 01:57 PM PST
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I think it is hard to argue that his rebounding hasn't improved, but the Clippers are still not doing so hot on the glass as a team, but I wouldn't say it is because he isn't doing enough individually.

Also, it isn't wrong that DJ grabs a lot of uncontested rebounds, you have to in order to lead the league. Use NBA.com people, they are tracking this stuff:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingRebo ... PerPage=25

Sure, DJ grabs a lot of uncontested rebounds, but every guy who is going to lead the league in rebounding will do that.

Uncontested rebounds: Jordan - 8.3 Howard - 8.2 Love - 8.1

Contested rebounds: Jordan - 5.1 Howard - 4.7 Love - 5.1

Drummond is the guy we can give more props to because he grabs 5.6 contested rebounds a game and 7 uncontested and only plays 32.9 mins, compared to 35+ MPG for the other guys.

If you sort for contested rebounds: http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingRebounding.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPag e=25&sortField=REB_CONTESTED&sortOrder=DES

DJ is still tied for second along with Love in contested rebounds. Now, of course, their contested rebounds are probably more in terms of their offensive rebounds than their defensive as these guys are all high level offensive rebounders and playing good minutes.

Also, if we look at percentage of rebounds grabbed per chance, Jordan grabs 71.2% of rebounds he has a chance of getting, that is higher than any other big man playing 15+ minutes. Dwight is at 69.7% and Love is at 65.4%. Jordan is 7th in the league amongst all players playing 15 MPG (I randomly picked 15 mins, there's no specific reason, could go down to about 12 minutes, but lower than that is too little).

Now that isn't a perfect stat as a guy might just put himself in more positions to be able to grab rebounds, but he's unable to, and that hurts his percentage grabbed. but it isn't actually a negative to be able to put himself in position and he isn't worse than someone else. We can verify by comparing the persons rebounds grabbed with his percentage. If he is still grabbing a lot of rebounds but has a lower percentage, then it means that he is consistently putting himself in position to grab rebounds even when he isn't able or doesn't grab them.

DJ is leading the league in RPG and in percentage grabbed per chance, so that is a positive thing.

Okay, but what about rebounds in traffic? Well they also did contested rebound percentage.

Contested rebound percentage: Jordan - 38.2% Howard - 38.6% Love - 36.7% (Griffin - 40.5%)

Jordan is certainly not the best in that. Standouts are guys like: Pekovic - 49.7% R.Lopez - 49.3% Hibbert - 47.7% Drummond - 44.4%

Pekovic is one of the leagues best offensive rebounders, so this helps explain that. Drummond and Lopez are the same, so again, this gives credence to that. Most of your contested rebounds are offensive, which obviously makes sense. The guys that are a beast on the offensive glass are also beasts in this area.

Let's look at contested rebound percentage, but sort by MPG so we don't get guys who played like 1 game or play too few minutes:

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingRebo ... =MIN*GE*15

Drummond is the only league leader in RPG who is in the top 25.



                
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tense2
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428807by tense2 » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:02 PM PST
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^Nice research as always Agent.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428811by Agent0 » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:26 PM PST
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Thanks, some interesting observations can be made there.

http://stats.nba.com/teamLineups.html?T ... tOrder=DES

Let's also look at the teams rebounding. Here's the month to month progression

Defensive Rebound Percentage Season: 73.9% November: 75.2% December: 72.7% Janaury: 76.0%

League Average: 74.4% Clippers rank: 19th

Starting lineup mixes Paul-Green-Dudley-Griffin-Jordan: 81.0% Paul-Redick-Dudley-Griffin-Jordan: 78.6% Paul-Crawford-Dudley-Griffin-Jordan: 76.2% Paul-Crawford-Barnes-Griffin-Jordan: 74.5%

With Collison Collision-Redick-Dudley-Griffin-Jordan: 78.6% Collison-Crawford-Dudley-Griffin-Jordan: 72.7%

3 Guard Lineups Paul-Redick-Crawford-Griffin-Jordan: 78.7% Paul-Green-Crawford-Griffin-Jordan: 66.7% Paul-Collison-Crawford-Dudley-Griffin: 64.3% Paul-Collison-Crawford-Griffin-Jordan: 62.0%

Full Bench Collison-Crawford-Bullock-Jamison-Hollins - 76.5%

Outlier Collison-Crawford-Barnes-Griffin-Jordan - 87.0% (11 games / 24 mins)

Redick seems to have a more positive effect on team defensive rebounding than Crawford, both with Paul and Collison at PG, but he's only played 3 games with the starting lineup having Collison, a lot of the minutes logged last game.

The Paul-Collison-Crawford lineup that has played a decent 53 minutes over 11 games (4.8 mpg) clearly tanks the teams rebounding when it is on. The 3 guard lineup in general seems to be awful, but the one with Redick and Crawford (53 mins, 13 games = 4.1 mpg) has actually been good.

One could guess why since sometimes it is causing double teams and getting people out of position, and also the smaller guys can't or don't box out as well or often as a SF.

The starting lineup with Barnes instead of Dudley has played a decent 47 minutes over 15 games, 3 MPG, but so far has been worse at rebounding the ball than the Dudley one. Sample size is still not massive to say anything conclusive, but it is an interesting observation

Dudley and Redick seem to be in a lot of the good rebounding lineups along with Blake and Jordan. I know Dudley hasn't been grabbing a ton of rebounds and we have been on him about it, but if you notice one thing, it is that Dudley does box out a lot. Him and Redick seem to do the most boxing out on the team, at the least, that is keeping some perimeter guys away from getting some of the loose rebounds. He seems to be adding positive to rebounding despite not grabbing a ton.

At the least, we know that the starting lineup on it's own is not the issue in terms of rebounding. The three guard lineup in general is not very good, and Redick and Dudley might / seem to have positive effects on the team rebounding.

                
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tense2
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428812by tense2 » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:33 PM PST
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^Keeping 'em coming Agent, LOL.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428813by jarca » Jan 11, 2014 - 02:40 PM PST
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3 guards line up of Paul, Reddick, and Crawford aren't too bad. I can see why the rebound drops when Barnes is on the floor,since he tries to leak out too much.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428835by Agent0 » Jan 11, 2014 - 06:48 PM PST
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Yea, that's what I was thinking too. Despite being a good rebounder numbers wise, it is possible that he grabs more uncontested rebounds than a guy like Dudley who would just leave an uncontested rebound for Blake or DJ and focus on boxing out. So while Barnes individual rebounding numbers are better, it is possible that he might not be having as good an impact on the team rebounding if he's leaking out in situations where he should be boxing out whole Dudley is staying back and keeping someone off the glass.

I myself was surprised by the Paul/Redick/Crawford. I know it's not a huge sample, but that still bodes well, especially considering the clear as day drop with all the other 3 guard lineups.

I wonder if there is a Collison-Redick-Crawford lineup, don't remember that happening often. If it is consistent there too, then at the least we get an idea that for short stretches together, Redick and Crawford at the 2/3 can hold their own on the glass.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428838by Voyeur » Jan 11, 2014 - 07:41 PM PST
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Doc did like to go with that 3 guard lineup down the stretch of games. Hard to argue with those 3 guys in crunch time.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428883by Agent0 » Jan 12, 2014 - 12:57 PM PST
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Well the one with Redick and Crawford has actually rebounded well. It is the ones with Collison-Crawford and Green-Crawford that have been awful. I think we did some Green-Crawford vs Miami where Green was guarding Lebron or something crazy like that.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428884by ClippersDA » Jan 12, 2014 - 01:25 PM PST
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I love that no one thinks Dudley or barnes should close games. Our small forwards suck.

                
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FreaKeyy
Post ID: 428943by FreaKeyy » Jan 13, 2014 - 12:28 AM PST
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I know what you mean. When you say fundamentals>athleticism, I'll agree with you on that. I enjoy watching guys like Kenneth Faried, Reggie Evans, Sir Charles, Rodman,Joakim, Vucevic...etc. Those guys are always in a disadvantage yet, they can grab 20+ rebounds. They're smaller or guys like Vucevic aren't blessed with elite athleticism. So yes I love watching them box out and fight for rebounds. I actually look up Reggie Evans 20+ rebs highlights, haha see what I mean, I just love watching them hustle. I know some completely ignore the rebounding part and just like watching the points, but not me.

Though saying DJ is not a good rebounder is just a lie. It's true his physical gift help him tremendously, but you gotta admit the guy can rebound. He has the Size/Athleticism and he hustles. And about the size part, again I know what you mean. I think guys like CP are better scorers than Durant. CP is arguably the smallest guy on the court every game and yet he can score 30 points, not to mention the guy is not an athletic freak. That's what I call skills. If Kevin Durant was 5'11, I don't think he can score 25 a night. That reasoning still doesn't change the fact that he's the "best" scorer in the game. Just like how DJ is the "best" rebounder.

                
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itsLuigi
Post ID: 428948by itsLuigi » Jan 13, 2014 - 02:11 AM PST
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we should try getting a small forward from denver or the kings.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428950by namzug » Jan 13, 2014 - 09:37 AM PST
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if we could get Wilson Chandler, I think would improve our team by quite a bit. Only problem I don't think they would ever trade him to us.

                
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CP3Best
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 428958by CP3Best » Jan 13, 2014 - 11:28 AM PST
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WHen Reddick was injured, DUdley was the one that was hitting our 3s. He had a slump, but remember the Kings game? Overtime missed 5 in a row, CP3 passes, DUdley knocks down the go ahead 3, which put us up by 1. He's the forgotten man now with Reddick back, but he still can shoot.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 428964by MunoValente » Jan 13, 2014 - 12:44 PM PST
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Dudley has been shooting pretty good lately, he has a true shooting of 63% in January. Dudley has been doing better as the season as progressed which is consistent with slowly recovering from an injury. He's also probably our best perimeter defender. He's worth having out there at crunch time assuming we have someone as our primary shot creator and we always do.

                
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itsLuigi
Post ID: 428974by itsLuigi » Jan 13, 2014 - 02:12 PM PST
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i wouldn't mind going after randolph or outlaw either

                
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tense2
Post ID: 428976by tense2 » Jan 13, 2014 - 03:03 PM PST
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A "big" forward or back up center is what we NEED. Really NEED.

                
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itsLuigi
Post ID: 428978by itsLuigi » Jan 13, 2014 - 03:57 PM PST
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thompson or williams from the kings? with landry coming back soon they might spare one

                
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Clipswhit
Post ID: 428986by Clipswhit » Jan 13, 2014 - 04:40 PM PST
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According to Bbref, DJ is #7 in defensive rating in the league this season. If you take into account our difficult first half, he'd probably be bumped up a couple rungs. If you remove the anomalies that are David West (who has the benefit of playing alongside Hibbert and George, with a weak first half schedule) and Dreymond Green (20 mpg), DJ is in the top 5. Hibbert West George Bogut Noah Green DJ

Not sure how this looks adjusted strength of schedule, but considering our tough start to the season, and the Pacers walkover start, I'd assume it would be favorable to DJ. I'm no expert, but I'd say he's a pretty great defender based on these stats.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 428999by Agent0 » Jan 13, 2014 - 06:43 PM PST
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I understand this thought, but this part I'll have to disagree with. Barkley could reach higher than Blake Griffin for example, actually fairly significantly. I believe he has length that rivaled C's, sort of like Elton.

Great length, very strong and wide base where he can move people, very quick and athletic.a Barkley actually had all the makings of a guy who would be a great rebounder because not only did he have the physical attributes for clearing space and grabbing rebounds, but also those ones for chasing down athletic rebounds.

The Paul and Durant one, that's a bit hard to say. Guys with Durant's height and length usually can't move as fluidly or dribble or shoot as well as he does. Durant isn't a good scorer just because of physical attributes, he is an extremely skilled player. Of course, if Paul was taller, he wouldn't be exactly the same player either, so that's a big harder to say, though I get what you mean.

About Dudley, I think he's still interestingly enough leading the team in 3PT%.

Last 15 games: 49.6% FG, 44.4% 3PT, 10.3 pts, 2.8 rebs. 2.0 assists, 29.6 mpg

He's scored 9+ 8/15 games, which is okay.

                
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A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
Post ID: 429009by A_DOG_NAMED_BUD » Jan 13, 2014 - 09:07 PM PST
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I like that idea. I'm not sure if we have the trade pieces to acquire one of them, but either of them would be an upgrade from Hollins or Mullens. With that said, I would prefer a more defensive minded PF or Center. Williams is too much of a SF/PF tweener and Thompson's not really a great defensive PF.

But Hollins and Mullens are pretty awful so I wouldn't mind seeing Doc experiment with either Thompson or Williams.

                
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Laak
Post ID: 429018by Laak » Jan 13, 2014 - 10:15 PM PST
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Agree with you 100%. What if DJ develop fundamentals, what if CP3 was taller, what if KD was 5'11. Too much what ifs. I guess best to deal with facts =/

                
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itsLuigi
Post ID: 429025by itsLuigi » Jan 14, 2014 - 12:14 AM PST
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exactly what i was thinking. i've always liked williams since he was a rookie. has a lot of potential. imagine what doc and paul could do to him with some time.

                
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Clipperjan
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 430111by Clipperjan » Jan 17, 2014 - 07:35 AM PST
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Have you guys seen the least rumor That the NBA wants Paul George and DeAndre Jordan to take part in the dunk contest this year. What do you think and were does DJ stand on voting for the all star game? Last thing I saw was he 15 or so.

I would say no to the dunk contest because what if he gets hurt and we do not have a big on the team to stand in while he would be down and that could kill us. All the injuries that we have had this year, it would be our luck that he would get hurt.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: ESPN Insider Request: How DeAndre Jordan Has Improved Post ID: 430112by Silasie » Jan 17, 2014 - 07:43 AM PST
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I think DJ was inspired to want to do it while watching EBled last year so he may well go for it.

Paul George has already done it or am I getting cofused with someone else?

                
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