Top 5 Power Forwards

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Poll
Should Blake Griffin be ranked higher?
Yes. He's beasting right now
87%
 87%  [14]
No. Those guys are beasting
12%
 12%  [2]
Total Votes : 16

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CP3Best
CTB MVP X1
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Posts: 4916
votes: 12

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=103446 ... api_public I found this video, and am wondering what you guys think of how they ranked them.

CP3Best
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4916
votes: 12

I don't agree that Love should be ranked higher, he's still in the lottery, and has been for way too long, Griffin wins, Love doesn't. END OF STORY

Clipswhit
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1730

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votes: 7

Get off your high horse. That's like using a rings argument to determine who is a better player. Stats wise, Love has better numbers, but Griffin has shown that without support, he's put up pretty monsterous numbers as well. Hard to say who is better, we'll likely find out when all is said and done.

jtwinnaz
Clipper Starter
Posts: 642

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votes: 7

ill take griffin over love, no home bias, but LMA is the best PF in the league today. He is a finisher and having an MVP season so far. can't wait to see what Portland does this year in the playoffs. watch out for them.

Laak
Clipper Starter
Posts: 375
votes: 1

I'd say Love and Griffin are pretty even right now. However, I think love is already at his peak, whereas Griffin still got room to grow.

gman
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2375

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votes: 5

The last 20 games they are practically neck and neck. Difference is that Love can shhot the 3 but Blake is more efficient.

Love rebounds better but his team competition averages under 10 rebounds as oppose to almost 14 as Blakes' competition does.

Right now is a toss up, but next season and even as close as the playoffs this year, Blake will be better.

MunoValente
Clipper Starter
Posts: 315
votes: 5

I think Griffin is a significantly better defender than Love, Love just isn't mobile enough to be as active as Griffin on defense. Aldridge's scoring efficiency is really unremarkable and he's not nearly as a good passer as Love or Griffin, he's a significantly worse offensive player although his length his helps on defense. I'd take Griffin over both of them. although are all pretty close.

Davis does things on defense none of them can come close to, but I think he ends up mostly at center. Offensively he's a good scorer but not really a playmaker at all.

If I really had to pick anyone in the league to play PF, I'd just stick Lebron or Durant at PF call it good.

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4851
votes: 37

Lamarcus' defense and playmaking are not that great so I would still pick griffin over Aldridge. As far as love versus griffin, that's a tough question, but I am not complaining about griffin on our team:)

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1470

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votes: 9

It's not like Tom Penn, front office executive for the Blazers, would be biased in his decision.

Kerley
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 33
votes: 1

Griffin makes his team better, love is yet to even play a playoff game. Rubio isn't a scrub, but next to love he's non-existent. Love can't play defense and is grossly inefficient. He makes a few 3's and he's hailed as a better PF. Love also takes a ton of shots, mostly jump shots for poor percentages.

I don't understand the criticism for Blake. Yes he dunks a lot for a PF, but he's the best PF we've seen in years at getting to the rim. And in case you didn't know this those dunks are the highest percentage of any **** in basketball, and he's the best at getting there.

Yeah LMA is good, but he's having a good year, but it's while the rest of his team his shooting lights out. He's just as the right place at the right time. I'm not buying the LMA is the best PF yet because of one good start. It's been half a season.

Diamond909
Clipper Starter
Posts: 403
Location: Clipper Nation
votes: 0

I say Blake but it's very close. Love has an upper advantage on not 1 but 2 counts rebs, and fts. All said and done Blake wins as long as he can keep this pace up because we all know Love can.

Flushyriver
Clipper Starter
Posts: 287

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votes: 1

You can't put Tim Duncan in the list for top 5 PFs right now. I understand he's a legend and still playing pretty well right now, but to put him in here because of how he's played in the past wrecks the legitimacy of the list.

My list based purely on performance (and LeBron and Melo aren't 4s):

1). Kevin Love

2). LaMarcus Aldridge

3). Blake Griffin

4). DeMarcus Cousins

5). Anthony Davis

Voyeur
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5129
votes: 29

Putting Love at 1 is perplexing to me...especially since the Wolves have fallen back down to earth after they exploded early this season.

Diamond909
Clipper Starter
Posts: 403
Location: Clipper Nation
votes: 0

It's more individual stats

Mvp I'll say BG it's neck and neck with lamarcus

GRIFFIN STEPPED UP WHEN PAUL WENT DOWN AND LA it just taking over in Portland. I have him on my fl and he's a beast for me

Flushyriver
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Posts: 287

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Yeah I'm not saying the T-Wolves are better than the Clippers or the Trail Blazers. I'm not saying that these are the trending rankings as of now. But strictly by overall individual performances so far this season, Kevin Love's stats are undeniable. Leading PFs in points, rebounds, assists, and total threes.

1). Kevin Love: 25.0 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 4.1 assists, 0.4 bpg, FG%: 46%

2). LaMarcus Aldridge: 24.7 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.9 assists, 1.0 bpg, FG%: 48%

3). Blake Griffin: 22.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.5 assists, 0.6 bpg, FG%: 52%

4). DeMarcus Cousins: 22.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.0 assists, 1.2 bpg, FG%: 49%

5). Anthony Davis: 20.2 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.3 assists, 3.0 bpg, FG%: 52%

(After looking at the stats I guess 4 and 5 are debatable, but I stand by the fact that these are the 5 best power forwards in the game right now and they all reside in the western conference)

Ricky
Clipper Starter
Posts: 712
votes: 7

Griffin has a higher FG% than Aldridge has TS%. lol

Griffin vs Love is a debate, but Aldridge isn't even in the same ballpark. His efficiency stinks.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3936

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votes: 42

It's weird to me that we lump BG, Love and LMA in the same category just because of the positions they play, because in reality they are polar opposite players.

They need to come up with a new position for players like Love, LMA & Dirk. There's nothing POWERFUL about them.

Blake and Cousins are probably the only true POWER Forwards out of that group. It seems like a dying breed.

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1250
votes: 17

Griffin is the best PF right now and I will tell you why.

Love's numbers are inflated because his team is garbage.

The problem with looking at just "Individual numbers" when asking

who is the better player is you are not taking into account the role

of the player on the team.

Love is the primary scorer, rebounder, and everything else on the team

since everyone else is garbage for the most part.

Put love of the clippers and arguably his numbers go down.

Look at griffins Shooting % compared to loves. I'll take a guy

scoring on 52% of his shots over 46% if he is only going to average 2.4 more points.

It is impossible for griffin to average as many rebounds as love when your

Center is the leading rebounder in the league. Kevin Loves center last I checked

averages 8.7 rebounds per game. Do the math. Take DJ's rebounds from 14/game to

8.7 and I'm sure griffin easily averages another 2-4 rpg.

Lets look at Kevin Loves Assists. Again How is griffin going to average more assists

when your PG is the league leader in Assists? Rubio doesn't run the offense. Kevin Love Does.

On clippers Chris Paul runs the offense. Blake has proven to be an excellent passer,

but when he gets the ball his primary job is to score not playmake.

Blake is also at the top of the league in drawing fouls. He has been getting to the line like crazy.

To Top it off Blakes Athleticism is 100 times that of kevin Love. And I really hate when people try

to act like Athleticism doesn't impact a game. If you've ever been to staple center to watch the

clippers A monster jam from blake can turn a dead crowd into a frenzy and shift the momentum of

a game instantly.

I've been at games where we were losing, and the game turned around after a monster jam by

Blake. Those don't show up on stats, but are a great luxury to have.

This isn't taking into the account if we are talking about the best PF's RIGHT NOW then

we have to look at the last 15-20 games where blakes numbers have been off the charts.

Blake started the season slow, but has been on a tear since December.

My vote Blake > Love

Silasie
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1976

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votes: 2

Cousins is playing at C surely.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8727

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votes: 107

Clippers wouldn't trade Blake for any of those guys straight up, but most of those players' GM's would at least seriously consider trading for Blake. That should tell us all we need to know.

Laak
Clipper Starter
Posts: 375
votes: 1

Agree with Postman.

Flushyriver
Clipper Starter
Posts: 287

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votes: 1

Oh shoot that's true. I was just trying to think of someone to replace Timmy on the list. Guess either David Lee or Dirk then as the 5th.

Flushyriver
Clipper Starter
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Posts: 287

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Oh shoot that's true. I was just trying to think of someone to replace Timmy on the list. Guess either David Lee or Dirk then as the 5th.

And yes each players performance is subjective to their team, but saying one player would play better in a different situation or would produce more in a weaker system is hypothetical, what we're ranking is purely individual performance so far this season. If you say that you never know how it'd be if Blake played in Minny or if Love played here then you can never say anything, never rank anybody, never consider any one player better than another because of their "role on their team." The only hard evidence we have to go by is the only stuff we can objectively rank players and in my opinion that'd be the rankings.

As for "right now" versus this season, players trend upwards and downwards throughout the season. That's why ranking a player by their hot streak or by their cold streak is not objective. We look at things at holistically and judge by overall performances. And that's how the rankings should look this far into the season.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4024
votes: 37

This line of debating is not good though. Why is Griffin winning, why isn't Love winning? Is Love not winning because he isn't giving enough positive production or giving too much negsative production, or is he giving enough and his team isn't adequate?

Is Blake winning because he's giving significantly more positive production and attributes, or is it also because he has a better fit of players around him? With all the brain power we have and without giving the terrible answer of "well we can't know cause it is different situations", it's called hypothesizing. Would Love win in Griffin's place? How would Griffin fair in Love's place?

What about LMA? He won when he had Brandon Roy, lost when Roy went, and now is winning again with a revamped and improved Portland team. How does winning / losing play in there? When he was losing was it because individually he wasn't good enough to help a team win or the team wasn't good enough to win?

Now, I'll take a Griffin, but an argument just looking at W/L is just a really poor one.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4024
votes: 37

Position names are arbitrary anyways, they don't necessarily mean what the name suggests. It was just a way to simplify things for the casual fan in the early days of basketball, but basketball isn't as simple as position names, so it's fine.

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1250
votes: 17

I respectfully disagree with this post. Here's why.

  1. To say it's "Impossible" to factor in team performance as it relates to individual numbers is FALSE. Let me explain through example.

Remember when Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett went to Boston? A Lot of the talk was how they were going to have to sacrifice numbers to play together. Why were their individual numbers going to go down?

Was it Diminished skill? Absolutely not. It is the undeniable fact that your team performance will impact individual numbers. Same with Bosh and wade when lebron and bosh came to miami.

What does this mean? Kevin Love is on a garbage team. So his individual stats are going to inflate. Compare that to Blake Griffin, who has the #1 Point Guard in the league, a 2 Guard who can put up 15-20 anight, and another 2 guard who can come of the bench and put up 20-30. Then other Role Players who can get hot and put up good numbers.

What I have proven is that in many cases A better team (Refer to Miami and Boston examples) will make individual numbers go down. So it doesn't mean Love is "Better" than griffin because of his individual numbers.

That is why we must factor in the fact that the Clippers are 4th in the west and Minny is a Lottery Team. Again it's not EVERYTHING, but it's an undeniable factor.

You also said we have to look at "The whole season" and not "Hot streaks" to determine who is the better overall player this season.

Again I call FALSE.

Though I agree to some degree you still have to factor in the beginning of the season Blake was adjusting to an entirely new system, new role players, etc...

Over the past 17 games Blake is averaging 26.5 ppg. You can call it a hot streak. (Which rarely last 17 games.). Or another intelligent way to conclude would be that Blake has gotten use to the system, his role, and has shown permanent improvement in his game. IE His free throw shooting.

My argument is after we Factor in Team Perfomance:

Blake > Love

And if we factor in improvement during this season and go off the

last 20 games

Blake >>>> Love

That is all.

kjavis
Clipper All-Star
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Posts: 1049
votes: 2

Without going into to much detail I'm going BG Love LA

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