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mastaslice
Post Subject: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433038by mastaslice » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:42 AM PST
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Nice to see there are clippers fans, like me.

Jared dudley is a decent defenders. All of u already know he plays small forward. But, some of the best players now, are SF. Lebron, Durant, Paul george... I'm scared of durant man. The dude is killing it. My worries is, if dudley can handle that. In the starting line up, he is the weakest link. He would be a great bench player.

Next is Center position.. DJ is having a break out season. The hype, Doc was saying about DJ, is looking to be true. But looking at the bench... Byron mullens, Ryan hollins... Nooo. These guys are not that good. If DJ goes down, clippers are done.

These are, the weakest links i believe the clippers should try to work on. Do u guy agree,

First post, guys.. If i posted this in the wrong section tell me

Thank u



                
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Kingkanyon
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433040by Kingkanyon » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:09 AM PST
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Could we use a top notch SF? Sure, do we need one? NO

Listen Keven Durrant is killing everybody, Demarre Carroll,Andre Iguadala, Klay Thompson, Evan Turner, Jeff Green, Kawi Leaonard-Ginobli, Nicolas Batum, all in the last 4 to 5 games, it doesn't really matter who we go out and get.

Witch is why I don't feel we need to go out and get a SF, were good at that Spot, Jarred Dudley, Matt Barnes and Reggie Bullock, were probably going to use all three on him and unlike Most Defenders they can All Shoot the 3, plus I've watched enough Allen Iverson 30,40+ games to know that the supporting cast is more important than once guy scoring 30,40+ and watching Terrence Ross have a Durant type performance and us still wining is rather comforting to know that we can survive that kind of performance from one guy and still get the win, and rather easily in the End.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433041by MunoValente » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:43 AM PST
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We've played the Thunder twice, Durant didn't do any better than usual against us. He really only had one big game against the Suns last year.

We should rest Dudley more, get him healthy, let Barnes try find his groove. Even just getting one of those guys back to how they played last year would be a huge bonus, doesn't matter which one and obviously both would be better. If a really great SF because available sure, but that seems unlikely.

                
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ClipperPostman
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433044by ClipperPostman » Jan 29, 2014 - 02:38 AM PST
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Yea I don't buy into the SF argument. When Dudley was really stinking up the joint I did. But not really for defensive purposes.

There is no SF who is going to stop those guys you just named.

That's why they are superstars.

Barnes seems to be playing ok now and Dudley seems to be getting healthier.

A back up Center I agree.

                
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Silasie
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433045by Silasie » Jan 29, 2014 - 02:48 AM PST
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A back up C is an absolute must cos as the OP says if DJ goes down we are in trouble. I am sure Doc is working on it.

                
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Laak
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433073by Laak » Jan 29, 2014 - 11:38 AM PST
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A backup center is the main issue. Getting a SF would be nice, but it won't improve us a great deal.

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433085by namzug » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:38 PM PST
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Back up Center or at least a Back up Big is a must in my opinion. I know Hedo has stopped the bleeding, but he is really just an oversized slow 3.

I don't think it's specifically our sf spot, it's just we lack any type of wing defender. No one is really thinking about trading JJ or Jamal so that leaves us with Jared. Perimeter Defense is what hurts our defense the most in my opinion. We can't have everyone on the perimeter be a threat for dribble penetration. Are you going to stop Durant, James, George, etc... probably not, but making it difficult for as many as possible would put our bigs in a much better position defensively.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 433086by pageC4 » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:46 PM PST
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A better small forward will improve this team a lot, but the problem is we don't have the trading pieces or cap room to acquire one of the elite, or quite frankly even a solid one like Ariza. A more realistic acquisition is a backup big big since they are cheaper than a starting small forward.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433089by Icecoldclipper » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:00 PM PST
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We should be pretty solid at SF with the three guys there all defense players and deep ball with slashing from Barnes. Could go small with Redick and Crawford as well. Think Dudley just needs to slash more it would open things up for him and gain confidence in shooting. We need a backup C before the all star break.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 433090by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:04 PM PST
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I still can't believe that the Wizards dangled Ariza for Butler and Donald didn't want to do it. mad

                
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Clipswhit
Post ID: 433884by Clipswhit » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:46 AM PST
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Luc Mbah a Moute for Dudley. Minny gets shooting, we get defense.

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433888by cleepers » Jan 31, 2014 - 09:11 AM PST
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That sentence says it all.

Add to that the fact that his actual contribution is being limited because he knows he absolutely cannot get in foul trouble, so he cautiously backs off of any play where he might get called for a foul.

I'm still confident we'll bring somebody in soon. How good that "somebody" will be remains to be seen, but they literally cannot be any worse than what we have... we might as well have Mullens wear the opponent's jersey every night!

I just hope we don't start disrupting the team to try and get a "difference-maker". Anyone who is not a net negative will make a difference. Maybe not quite as much as an MLE-level player, but do we really want to start trading guard/wing assets when DJ and Blake have been holding down the fort so well?

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433890by pageC4 » Jan 31, 2014 - 09:24 AM PST
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I think theres one thing that I have taken from the season so far: we are exactly where we should be given the talent level of this team. 4th seed is not exactly indicative of championship aspirations. That being said we do need to make sweeping changes to take this team from 4th to the top 3. Our small forward rotation is attrocious. Dudley is a good player on paper: a high percentage shooter and good three point shooter. The problem is the guy doesn't shoot much, and what good is a 40% shooter if he only takes 4 shots a game. Barnes, wow what a comedown from last year. He has the exact opposite problem of Dudley. Barnes has a horrible shot, but keeps shooting. And though I love Matt Barnes the truth of it is that his salary combined with Dudleys is what it costs for an elite small forward. To boot how will we get a good player in return by offering Mullens, Hollins, Jamison, or Hedo. The realization is that Jamal Crawford is our best trade bait for a quality player in return, and we have about 7 million tied up into the attrocious duo of Dudley and Barnes. We seem to have two choices: stay the course (and most likely stay in 4th place with a first or second round exit waiting for us), or make drastic changes to make this club better. We need to do something

                
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tense2
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433891by tense2 » Jan 31, 2014 - 09:29 AM PST
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Tough to get an "elite" SF or "elite" at any position for 7 mil, lol.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433894by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 09:44 AM PST
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If we stay the course there is a good chance one and/or both of Dudley and Barnes might get their crap together. They are both coming off 3 consecutive years with around 15 PER and are around 9 this year. This year is a severe outlier for both of them, usually severe outliers even out in time. With Dudley just getting fully healthy might go a long way; Barnes I don't know what his deal is, but he has time to figure it out, it doesn't look like it's because he's old or slow though, he just seems off his game for whatever reason, but slumps happen and usually people get over them.

I definitely don't think we're locked into the 4 seed either, we've gained ground on San Antonio and Portland despite Paul being hurt and our SF both slumping. San Antonio is starting to pile up injuries and Portland I still don't think is quite as good as their record.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433901by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:14 AM PST
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But I though we solved our SF problem via advance stats since we traded Butler for Dudley lol

                
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tense2
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433902by tense2 » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:19 AM PST
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Who ever said Dudley was an "elite" SF. Stop bring a putz Jaca. Razz

P.S. Define elite.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433903by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:25 AM PST
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But according to advance stats we should have upgraded our SF production by adding Dudley. Seems to me last years duo produced more than this year

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433904by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:33 AM PST
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Crickets... I was hoping to get his signature links lol

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433905by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:41 AM PST
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Dudley and Barnes last year were both clearly better last year, the fact they aren't this year doesn't mean the stats were wrong last year, it means they are both significantly under performing this year. Butler sucked last year and sucks this year, I'd even take limping around underperforming Dudley over him, Dudley at least has the good sense to stop shooting when his shot off.

Neither Barnes or Dudley are playing up to their ability, but that doesn't mean they aren't capable of playing to that level, if they work out whatever is causing their slumps. Dudley is hurt and I think it's hurt his confidence and his fitness on top of being slowed. Barnes I have no idea what his problem is, but he needs to figure it out.

                
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clipperboy24
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433908by clipperboy24 » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:48 AM PST
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My concern from the beginning was Dudley's defense and rebounding and his lack of ability to create as well as decent stats on a bad team. All of those worries have been confirmed and everyone keeps saying he's injured give him time... It was a bad trade now we need to move forward and get bullock more minutes so we get better rebounding and defensive production.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433909by ClipperKyle32 » Jan 31, 2014 - 11:48 AM PST
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I posted some trades here on the trade thread for a Quality SF. Tell Me What You Think

                
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jarca
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433914by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 12:11 PM PST
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Since tense went on vacation, u got any advance stats that shows Dudley/Barnes duo is better than butler/Barnes?

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433917by pageC4 » Jan 31, 2014 - 12:22 PM PST
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this team could become elite if Dudley played well. but that is a big if. I just don't trust him to return to form and provide what we need. quite honestly he reminds me of the Baron Davis situation and we all waited for him to get healthy and that never came. we are banking too much on Dudleys progress, and I fear at the end of the year we will regret not making some moves.

                
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tense2
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433918by tense2 » Jan 31, 2014 - 12:28 PM PST
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I'm here old friend. Wouldn't go on vacation before I gave you a heads up, lol.

No use giving you any advanced stats...won't do any good anyway when going up against arguments like it "seems".

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 433920by TheDude » Jan 31, 2014 - 12:40 PM PST
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I like the one where we trade Dudley for Gordon Haywood. Let's do that one.

                
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CP3Best
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433923by CP3Best » Jan 31, 2014 - 12:57 PM PST
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Clippers just need a Fire Stick up they damn a$$ so they can wake up and play SOME DAMN DEFENSE!

                
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sz123456
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433926by sz123456 » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:08 PM PST
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Actually I consider that a weakness of Dudley's, he's too passive. We all know he can shoot, but he defers or tries to drive and kick way too often. I don't think he understands that he is only in there to shoot. If he doesn't shoot, he's just taking up space. We could get any D-League player to play the level of defense he does.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433930by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:12 PM PST
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Butler/Barnes was better, but not because of anything Butler did, but because Barnes was much better last year. Dudley was also much better last year, but unfortunately he's slumped down to roughly Butler's level, maybe a little better. Both Barnes and Dudley are capable of playing much better than they currently are playing, but obviously at some point they need to go out and do it.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433931by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:16 PM PST
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You telling me that advance stats couldn't predict that?

                
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jarca
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433933by jarca » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:17 PM PST
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You gave up on advance stats pretty quick lol.. I was expecting your usual reply followed by a link.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433934by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:19 PM PST
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If he's hot he should shoot more, if he's off he should shoot less and he's had several games where he's made 4 or more three pointers, so I don't think he's afraid shoot when he knows his shot is falling. The last thing we need is someone like this year's Butler who is taking 16 shots per 36 and shooting under 40%. If we need someone wildly jack up bad shots, that is what we have Crawford for.

You're underrating his defense, he's flawed but again we lead the league in opposing 3pt%, and have held of Lebron, Durant and Melo under their season averages. He might not be playing elite defense, he's not playing d-league defense either.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433936by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:21 PM PST
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Yes. Yes they don't predict injuries and they don't predict whatever is going with Barnes. I don't think anyone even really knows what is going on with Barnes.

                
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sz123456
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433937by sz123456 » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:23 PM PST
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Dudley's value is his 3 point shooting. If he passes up open 3 pointers (even if he's in a slump), he should not be on the floor.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 433939by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 01:28 PM PST
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Give up on the only put up stats on a bad team thing, he did perfectly fine on a team that went to the conference finals. If he was playing like he did for the 09/10 Suns he wouldn't be getting criticized nearly much. He's not playing as well as he should, but it's got nothing to with moving to a good team.

No matter how bad Dudley is playing right now though, it wasn't a bad trade either because Redick is killing it.

Bullock should probably try to beat out Willie Green for minutes before he worries about getting ahead of Barnes or Dudley.

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433951by pageC4 » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:16 PM PST
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Barnes had what was one of his best years last year. I had a slight fear he would come down a bit, so did Willie Green.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433953by CapsNClips » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:22 PM PST
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No, the Clippers need an All-World PG. Where can we get one of those?

                
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Clipswhit
Post ID: 433954by Clipswhit » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:26 PM PST
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Third trade is utterly ridiculous. I think we could realistically get lrmam, but I feel that Dudley would be a more realistic trade piece. Be happy to part with Mullens though. Dude is NOT an NBA player.

                
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Clipswhit
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433956by Clipswhit » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:30 PM PST
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I feel that 3 pt fg% is great, but this team had a much bigger need for someone to stop dribble penetration. DJ is being asked to do too much because no one on our team is fast enough to bother penetration.

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433957by pageC4 » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:30 PM PST
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I think that is what people forget. In Doc's introductory press conference he said his priority was to get shooting. Dudley was acquired with that in mind, he wasn't brought in for defense because quite frankly that's not his forte, neither was he brought in for rebounding because that is also not a strength.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433958by MunoValente » Jan 31, 2014 - 03:31 PM PST
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His rates stats were pretty close with what he did with the Lakers. Even his year in Orlando wasn't far off. If he had just dropped off a bit that would one thing and expected given his age and how well he did last year, the problem is that he crashed well beyond that.

The same thing could be said with Dudley, maybe he was playing above his in Phoenix and was going to slip a little coming to a better team, but he's also collapsed.

With Dudley we at least know he's carried an injury, so we can cut his minutes and let rest him for a while and to see if it helps. Barnes drop off though has come out nowhere, so it is harder to know what can tried to help him find his game.

                
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illastrate
Post ID: 433960by illastrate » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:06 PM PST
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Baron Davis is available...

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433961by Agent0 » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:07 PM PST
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Barnes had a nice year last year, but he also had a nice year the previous season with LA, and he's had about 4 years in a similar range of production, it wasn't some one hit wonder situation, A problem though is that Barnes isn't that young, and he does get injuries here and there, so that has to affect him. A bit off a dropoff is expected, but he's been bad, but injuries and getting into the groove of thing also affected him.

It's weird comparing last years SF's to this years because one of the players is the exact same, so Barnes playing worse is just him playing worse. All you're comparing is Butler and Dudley and we're saving $4M for the same mediocre play. Sucky Dudley is basically equal in impact to Caron but makes less money. He might also shoot a little better than nonsense in the post-season. Not like Caron is going to be denying penetration or getting to the basket more than once every 7 games or be so e impressive level scorer on this team.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: Re: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433963by Agent0 » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:13 PM PST
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He was brought in for both shooting and defense, not as a shut down defender, but to be an average one. Smart shot selection is fine. Dudley's rate of 3PTA this year is the second highest of his career and higher (basically the same) than/as last season. So if one thinks he isn't shooting enough three's it is because they have a different grasp of his historical shot selection than the reality of it or expected him to shoot as many as Caron did.

Caron has been a high level scorer, he has a different mentality of shot selection than a career role player like Dudley. It can be a good thing sometimes, but also a bad thing when they keep jacking and take shots away from better players. You don't want guys to be timid, but you don't want your role players forcing bad shots. Dudley attempts there's at a slighter higher rate to a guy like Batteir, they are guys with similar offensive mentalities.

I think every player has games where they should take more shots, but as a whole and for his role and talent level, Dudley has shot an adequate amount of three's.

A good amount of the complaints people have about Dudley outside of,him being a step slow and rebounding seem to be incorrect expectations. People didn't do enough of their homework to understand the kind of player he is. This is why you can't just watch the highlights of a players best games (which makes you think things like Mullens is a good basketball player). Dudley is down in some areas, but some of the areas of complaint really are just how he plays basketball.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433965by ClipperKyle32 » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:26 PM PST
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@RealGM: Bulls Could Be Determined To Trade Taj Gibson Before Deadline To Clear Cap Space To Sign 2nd Superstar -- http://t.co/Ntul28WNlc

Taj Gibson? Could he be a good backup?

                
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illastrate
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433966by illastrate » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:27 PM PST
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I think we overpaid for Barnes. We were obviously paying for the season he had last year and not what he could do going forward. He's a 33 year old injury prone swingman. For the money we spent on him, we could've signed a big AND a wing player. Something along the likes of DeJuan Blair and Demarre Carroll. Add in Darren Collison and that's 3 quality players for the MLE.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center Post ID: 433967by Agent0 » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:36 PM PST
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I had said we overpaid Barnes from the get go, especially in regard to number of years. Someone told me it was something about loyalty, thouh I don't get loyalty to a guy who was on the team for one season and is a career journeyman, but sure.

Yes, Barnes shouldn't have been re-signed because of his age and the length / amount required. To me it seemed obvious, but Doc is in his first year as a GM, so I don't know, we need to give some grace to him, Barnes contract is a team option for year 3 though, so it is essentially a two year deal.

ClipperKyle, Gibson is an elite backup big man. Yes, for a backup big man, he's the top of the line you can get. We don't have the resources to get him. What we could do is if Charlotte makes a good deal, try and swoop in there and see if we can get Biyombo. Of course, people will need to have realistic expectations of Biyombo because he's an all defense and rebounding, no offense player.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 433968by CapsNClips » Jan 31, 2014 - 04:42 PM PST
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I've always wanted Taj Gibson. Collison would actually have a pick 'n roll partner off the bench to work with.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post ID: 433970by ClipperKyle32 » Jan 31, 2014 - 05:09 PM PST
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mu75ysf

Its hard to make a trade. I tried to make it reasonable. Barnes with the Bulls is great for them because Thibs likes Defense and Barnes gives them that. Haywood could be a great defensive guy for the Bulls and Willie gets closer to home and gives the Bulls a veteran.

Clippers get a much needed big man. That Is all I can say. MUCH NEEDED

Bobcats get Jamison who returns home. Bobcats favorite Byron Mullens Smile and Erik Murphy replaces Haywood for less money.

Reasonable? Does everyone get what they want or need?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 433973by tense2 » Jan 31, 2014 - 07:08 PM PST
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Someone's not getting what they need IF Mullins or Jamison is any deal, lol.

Love to get Taj but I don't think the Bulls are in any hurry to trade Gibson, that can be accomplished during the summer when Chicago has a better idea of what FA they can attract.

Plus with the $ Gibson is making and what is figured in that trade, we'd be over the tax (can't do)...and I don't know why the Bulls would want those guys anyway.

                
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