Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center (P. 4)

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sz123456
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No, the league was angry that we colluded with the Celtics, agreeing on a trade that involved both players and a coach, which was against NBA policy. As punishment, we were not allowed to deal with the Celtics for a whole season, preventing us from getting KG and Pierce who were with Boston at the time.

ClippersDA
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Please bring turner here!!! He isn't a great three point shooter but he does so much else.

toohipcliptoslip
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All this talk about guards, is anybody OK with starting Hollins? He's been playing well and I wouldn't have much problem except his fouls. per 36 min he averages 6.1 fouls. Our opponents would go straight at him and he'd be out early in the 3rd quarter. The one and only thing we need is a center.

Unfortunatelly Collison is underpaid so $$ won't match but he's shown himself to be a starter. Willie is also underpaid. Barnes will come around.

Reality check. Our center is the best rebounder in the league and should be Most Improved player. If he continues BG will be a candidate for MVP. CP is a perennial candidate for MVP. Reddick when healthy shoots lights out. Barnes and Dudley are adequate. You can't have it all.

Our bench stars are Collison, a starter: Turk at PF and Jamal 6th Man of the year Good as any in the league, Willie could start if he plays on his game.

The hole is obvious. Every player is adequate or better except, Mullens, Jamison, Mullens and Bullock since he hasn't been tested, Hollins is +/-

We need a center. I wish Collison were making more money so salaries could match.

Agent0
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Willie isn't underpaid. Willie would make this same amount over and over and over again in the market, so that is his value.

You are correct, a big is needed, but it's not going to be easy to get an acceptable one

Clipperjan
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Thanks Smile

Agent0
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Read post in other thread, there's a bit of deception as to how Turner would actually benefit this team, and the prospects of retaining him aren't good (because I doubt the FOR wants to spend 8M+ on a player of his caliber), so basically giving up assets for a half a season rental of an overall average player at best.

Unless people think you get him by trading all the players we don't like and Philly would just magically want.

ClippersDA
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They might to tank. Id rent him for half a season if I could get rid of Dudley and or barnes. Mullens would be icing on the cake

tense2
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Bad enough deal...let alone for those reasons. Plus their looking for draft picks.

And their NOT taking Mullens off our hands no matter how much you wish for it, lol.

MunoValente
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I wouldn't mind dumping Barnes because of his age, Dudley I think has some value though, because he's younger and has physical problems that he has a good chance he'll get over eventually. I'd want someone under contract for Dudley.

ClippersDA
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You place more value than I do in Dudley then. I agree though barnes is the pauper's turner and would be my first one shipped out. But I wouldn't need something back for Dudley. Maybe a second rounder

toohipcliptoslip
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Still I think a lot of teams might want Willie. The problem in trading for someone other than a center is that we don't need them. We can sustain a season ending injury for any position except center. Hedo can start as PF or MAYBE SF. As a PF Jamison at least won't screw up too bad but what happens if DJ goes down?

If we start Hollins then we have Mullens off the bench. Hollins get brutalized by big centers. That's one reason he fouls. He can't defend. That would be a disaster because Mullens' main job is to keep the bench from floating into outer space.

To use Cleepers' analogy it's like buying your second Ferrari because it's half price but you have 10 kids and really need a minivan and get the Ferrari instead.

tense2
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Dudley does have some value, but it's pretty low right now due to injury or whatever. Finding a productive player under contract at the dead line will be pretty tough IMO. He'll need be packaged with valued (Reggie or picks in the future) stuff to get anything closed to what we what need in return.

Personally, I don't think we make any significant trade(s) until next season.

ClippersDA
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Maybe I'm cold, but I highly doubt Dudley has a real injury that is keeping him from making wide open shots. He's just not that good. Watching him try to run or keep someone in front of him is sad

tense2
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His past history never indicated that, so it's a bit frustrating on what's going on right now.

ClippersDA
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I think he was overrated on this board. He isn't a double digit scorer.

MunoValente
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Trading now would be tricky I agree. The best thing we could probably do is trade one of Dudley or Barnes with Green, Jamison or whatever other filler for a bigger, longer contract that someone wants to dump, but really there aren't many contracts out there like that.

Another thing we could try is moving one of them for a similarly under performing player at another position; Barnes and filler for Zaza or something completely unexciting like that.

We could also try combining some our cheap players for a salary dump of someone with salary similar to Barnes. Green/Jamison/Hollins for some $3 million big on losing team. Don't even know who that would be though and we'd really probably just be better off signing Odom, Johnson or one of the other Chinese bigs.

tense2
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Interesting, cause his history/numbers show he was with a above average FG% on below average FGA's. Hmmm..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

MunoValente
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Maybe I'm cold, but I highly doubt Dudley has a real injury that is keeping him from making wide open shots. He's just not that good. Watching him try to run or keep someone in front of him is sad
So the constant comments Rivers makes about him being hurt are some kind of conspiracy? Also, his shooting while well below his usual standard isn't that bad. He's still at 45%/36%, which is miles ahead of Barnes, Jamison, Turkoglu, Green and Bullock. It's mediocre and he should be doing better, he's much less of a shooting liability than....

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tense2
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Yea, I know it'll be tough and that's why I don't think the "good" trades come until next year.

Think signing Odom, maybe Johnson or one of the other Chinese bigs is the safer way to go.

Agent0
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Evan Turner isn't winning them games. They are looking for young talent and or draft picks, they already suck, there's little more tanking you can do than their current situation

They have the third fewest wins in the league at 15. They are 15-34 but started the season 5-5. They are 10-29 since the first 10 games of the season. There's a reason that Evan Turner is one of their leading scorers and it isn't because they are a good team.

In regards to your other post, I think a player needs to actually be related highly before they are overrated. He's putting up 8 pts in 27 minutes, or 11 pts every 36 minutes. "Double digit scorer" is too vague. He was one for three straight seasons, but he's been poor this year.

toohipcliptoslip
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Getting Lamar may be the answer?? It may be a possibility

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/stor ... o-turkoglu

I don't know if this has been posted before. The tabloids are saying he thinks his NBA career is over. I won't waste pixels by posting a link. He's also worth $50 mil according to him. He doesn't need the $$

gman
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I do not know if anyone has posted this but per Marc Stein twitter feed Dudley maybe on the move before the deadline.

Silasie
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^

Yep looks like Doc could well be trying to get it sorted.

Silasie
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^

I really hope he can make the right deal.

wessleejr
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I hope we can swap him with Reggie Evans he is what we need. Barnes is fine and i hope vujacic can perform well as back up, we still have bullock.

Silasie
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Interesting idea. I wonder if the Nets would be interested, they certainly don't use Reggie much.

cleepers
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I'd want more for Dudley than just Reggie. Though, I think it'd be interesting to watch the 2nd unit's offense...

Jamal shoots, Reggie rebounds, Jamal shoots, Reggie rebounds... and so on until we score.

Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_16

ClippersDA
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I'm still bitter that we could have bad Ariza

MunoValente
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For the venom directed at Dudley, I don't see how anyone can think Barnes is fine. He's shooting 37%, he's running around like a headless chicken defense, all of his advanced stats are worse Dudley's, which takes some doing because Dudley's are not good, and top of that he's 33 years old and under contract a few more years.

I think the main reason we would trade Dudley instead of Barnes is that Dudley actually has some trade value left despite his slump. Barnes is basically worthless in trades given his age and contract.

Silasie
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Maybe people have more tolerance for Barnes because we have seen him play really well in a Clipper Jersey unlike Jared?

jarca
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Not ready to give up on money ball Dudley lol

tense2
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Never said that, but thanks for missing the point again. At least your consistent. Razz

Agent0
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Expectations. Some people had higher expectations of Dudley than the reality, not sure why. Most at least expected average defense and elite scoring efficiency, with some consistency. He's been inconsistent,especially home/road, his scoring efficiency is good, but not elite, and his defense has been up and down and overall below average.

Maybe people just didn't expect much from Barnes, or just because Dudley has become the whipping boy that Barnes' play has sort of been masked.

pageC4
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It's partly that, and also the fact that he's our bench small forward. Even though Barnes is over paid for that position people have different expectations for a bench guy than they do our starter. It's why many people are upset with Dudley whereas kind of turn a blind eye to Barnes. Dudley was given higher expectations and held to a higher standard.

Silasie
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Yeah good point, and he was meant to be an upgrade on Caron and things didn't really get better.

pageC4
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Agreed. However, his presence on this team is a stark reality. If Doc can move him I will be very impressed

pageC4
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No, sadly for us. The issue now is trading him. Given people's afiinity for statistics there may be a silver linning to our Jared Dudley situation. I'm sure there are many front office personnel that are looking at Dudleys high FG % and PER 36 numbers and are thinking the same thing our statistically inclined CTB members argue.

That being the case there are going to be takers on Dudley and I'm sure we can move him.

Silasie
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Lets hope so. Stats aren't half as big in British sports as in American ones, so I find the obsession a bit................................er obsessive.

jarca
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So you gave up on Dudley's advance stats? Very Happy

tense2
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You're on a streak Jaca, keep it going. Very Happy

Icecoldclipper
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Not really feeling sad about it if he is dealt. I guess I could be a little salty that he is playing horrible and passing up shots and use to talk a lot of crap about the Clippers as a Sun.

ClippersDA
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At 33 and given his career averages, barnes was overpaid and it is a terrible signing

jarca
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AWwww no links so disappointed

tense2
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Don't be, you wouldn't understand them anyway. Your turn.

jarca
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So much for understanding when you think you understood it after claiming Dudley is an upgrade Sad

Agent0
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Jarca, you know you're not really arguing against anything valid,why do you keep going? Yes, if Dudley had maintained his production over the last three seasons, he was an upgrade. Same defense, better shooting, increased efficiency (which still happened) and half the cost.

Him tanking basketball on the road doesn't take away that reality, the future isn't certain, you take chances, you generally try to the calculated ones, Dudley was not a risk because he wasn't a one year wonder and the things he was good at were things we generally consider universally good. Whatever factors they might have been, injuries, role, confidence, whatever they were all culminated into what we have no, doesn't mean he wasn't an upgrade for a 25-29 MPG starting SF floor spacer.

Page, what do you mean by Dudley's high FG% and per 36 numbers, lol? He's averaging like 11/3/2 per 36 and his FG% is a career low, lol

pageC4
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Barnes is overpaid. Although if he was playing as well as last year it wouldn't be an issue, but nonetheless it is a bad signing. Still, that is a Barnes discussion better for another thread

pageC4
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They aren't adhered to by all. It is definitely a growing segment of people that use them now, particularly on this site. But yes, there is quite an obsession with them.

MunoValente
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The thread has "Clippers need SF" in the title. Barnes is relevant to that, just like Dudley if he want playing at last year's level we would be mostly fine at SF.

He's paid nearly as much Dudley and when you consider old players get less than prime age players, they are essentially seen as equals and unfortunately they still are playing roughly as equals. Saying they are playing as equals is actually being generous to Barnes; all of his advanced stats are worse than Dudley's and we're allowing 10 points more per 100 possessions on defense Barnes is out there.

Agent0
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Barnes was overpaid even if he had the same production, that was my complaint about signing him all off-season. 33 year old journey men getting multi-year contracts is not the best money investment for a team.

Silasie, you're talking about very different types of sports, not all sports have the same type of analysis. Anyone who doesn't use all the tools in their disposal isn't being smart.

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